Probality of God

[eatenbyagrue]

Really?  I dont see the word hell in your post. Is it in Bruces post that you were replying to?  Who said hell is here on earth? And why is that important to you? Worried?     

Ahh, I see. If there is no hell, then there is nothing to worry about. Theres that logic workin for ya. Worried more about the possibility of hell than God who made it. Again, rejection of God even if there were proof of hell. 

Let me get this right. If there were proof of hell, of which is described and named in the Bible, then you might believe in God? Or you would still need proof of God beyond that? I would guess your answer is yes from what Ive read so far.  hopefully not. 

Mags

I quoted Bruce's post, so yes, it was a reply to him, and his point was that we should believe in god or bear god's wrath.

If there was proof of hell, that would necessarily entail proof of god, so yes, I am open to believing anything there is proof of.  If tomorrow, Jesus himself came down to earth in his awesome godly form so that all would know who he is and explained to us that we must worship him or go to his eternal torture jail underground, then yes, I would say, "I was wrong, save me, Jesus."  I would - I am open to all evidence.

But I will not believe such a fantastic story without such evidence.  So for now, I dismiss the idea of hell.

And you must see how Hell is a tool used by the Christians to scare the nonbelievers to their point of view.  It is one thing to say, "there is a god and you should join us in worshipping him."  Because the natural response from nonbelievers to this is "well, even if your god exists and created everything, I see no evidence of your god intervening in things here on earth, so why should I waste time worshipping him."  The Christian needs the stick of hell to go with the carrot of fulfilled prayers (which are kinda rare).  So the Christian says "believe in my god or you will be tortured for all eternity after you die."  Much more compelling!

[eatenbyagrue]

It is your perception that they are fairy tales. Just because you perceive it as such does not make it truth. So from now on, if you wish to label them as fairy tales, you should say "2000 year old Jewish scriptures that I consider to be fairy tales"  Otherwise you are stating it as fact. You cannot prove it is or isnt, yet you pose it as truth. 

Cmon, you can do better than that. I mean like, you guys are always asking for evidence, facts, truth. Should we expect less from you? Hmmm?

Mags

Let me rephrase - they are stories in a book.  And that is all I am accepting, because that is all we know.  What evidence do you have that they are more than stories?  Specifically, the bits about Jesus being god.  I understand that some historical places are referenced, but Harry Potter references England, and it's not all true in those books.

The burden on proof is on those asserting the fantastic, not on those denying the fantastic for lack of evidence.  That is which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

[Magluvin]

There is a planet they say is made of diamond. All compressed carbon. At a distance, Im sure it seems that way. But I would think that once someone could arrive there to inspect it, they would more than likely find other elements. possibly large amounts. Maybe just a little bit of this, and some of that. Maybe nothing else at all. All one big beautiful nugget floating in space. Then theres the moon. not much variety going on there. Mars. Mars has a few things!

But here. On Earth. Positioned just so far from the sun that provides excellent living temperatures compared to known planets, the Earth contains large amounts of every element from hydrogen on up.

Its a wonderful accident, isnt it.       Just a roll of the dice to some I suppose.  What if we were missing 1 element. An important one.  What could one be?  Hydrogen?  Nitrogen? Carbon? Oxygen??? Lead, gold, iron, uranium?  Calcium?  You name it. No matter how insignificant.

Now get rid of 15 elements from the earth.
Which ones would you remove if you had to, to maintain life here as it is or near so.?

Could it be done? Maybe there are some elements that can be gotten rid of, like uranium and such and it could be life as we know it, just without nuclear powers and other uses.
Thorium. It can do near what uranium can do, there is more of it ,and it is safer when used up. But cant make weapons out of used thorium silly. 

Ok uranium, thorium gone, what next??  Mind you we are selectively choosing elements to remove in judgement of its dangerous history. Not roll of the dice.  How far can we go doing this? How many elements can be removed while still maintaining quality life for all plant and animal?


Soo, what could we do?  Roll a 113 sided dice to select the outed elements randomly?


Hey, lets roll that 113 sided dice till we roll every element that goes 'into' the earth!!!

How many rolls do you think that would take to build the earth by doing that ?

Now take 113 , 113 sided dice. What are the chances of rolling all 113 and getting them all consecutive from 1 to 113?    If we threw consecutive rolls of all the 113 sided dice, 113 of them, and each time added elements to the earth(creating it) till we have every element available, with the least element equal to our least element in existence in real life, imagine the different levels of different elements each time we complete the process described.

All being said, I fail to see that this is all just an accident, born of a big bang and simply evolution.
Im not settling for that. Ever.


Mags

[eatenbyagrue]

There is a planet they say is made of diamond. All compressed carbon. At a distance, Im sure it seems that way. But I would think that once someone could arrive there to inspect it, they would more than likely find other elements. possibly large amounts. Maybe just a little bit of this, and some of that. Maybe nothing else at all. All one big beautiful nugget floating in space. Then theres the moon. not much variety going on there. Mars. Mars has a few things!

But here. On Earth. Positioned just so far from the sun that provides excellent living temperatures compared to known planets, the Earth contains large amounts of every element from hydrogen on up.

Its a wonderful accident, isnt it.       Just a roll of the dice to some I suppose.  What if we were missing 1 element. An important one.  What could one be?  Hydrogen?  Nitrogen? Carbon? Oxygen??? Lead, gold, iron, uranium?  Calcium?  You name it. No matter how insignificant.

Now get rid of 15 elements from the earth.
Which ones would you remove if you had to, to maintain life here as it is or near so.?

Could it be done? Maybe there are some elements that can be gotten rid of, like uranium and such and it could be life as we know it, just without nuclear powers and other uses.
Thorium. It can do near what uranium can do, there is more of it ,and it is safer when used up. But cant make weapons out of used thorium silly. 

Ok uranium, thorium gone, what next??  Mind you we are selectively choosing elements to remove in judgement of its dangerous history. Not roll of the dice.  How far can we go doing this? How many elements can be removed while still maintaining quality life for all plant and animal?


Soo, what could we do?  Roll a 113 sided dice to select the outed elements randomly?


Hey, lets roll that 113 sided dice till we roll every element that goes 'into' the earth!!!

How many rolls do you think that would take to build the earth by doing that ?

Now take 113 , 113 sided dice. What are the chances of rolling all 113 and getting them all consecutive from 1 to 113?    If we threw consecutive rolls of all the 113 sided dice, 113 of them, and each time added elements to the earth(creating it) till we have every element available, with the least element equal to our least element in existence in real life, imagine the different levels of different elements each time we complete the process described.

All being said, I fail to see that this is all just an accident, born of a big bang and simply evolution.
Im not settling for that. Ever.

Mags

None of what you said establishes Jesus.

Furthermore, there are billions of galaxies with billions of stars each.  So the odds of the existence of rocky planets in hospitable zones is not all that unlikely.  As far as the elements required to support life on earth, it only follows that life developed on earth in a way compatible with the elements here.  But it does not follow from this that intelligent life can ONLY evolve in presence of the elements found on earth.  How do you get to that conclusion?

[Magluvin]

None of what you said establishes Jesus.

Furthermore, there are billions of galaxies with billions of stars each.  So the odds of the existence of rocky planets in hospitable zones is not all that unlikely.  As far as the elements required to support life on earth, it only follows that life developed on earth in a way compatible with the elements here.  But it does not follow from this that intelligent life can ONLY evolve in presence of the elements found on earth.  How do you get to that conclusion?

All these incredible possibilities you believe in. Well good for you.

One of the questions was, how many of what elements can we get rid of from the planet and its business as usual with natural life as we know it, wit exception of what we could have done if we had them all.

Mags