Tesla's "COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS".

[Magluvin]

You are one piece of work Magluvin....

The question was posed for a valid reason, Jbignes5 made two postings filled with nonsense and disinformation whose roots stem from the "we are into 'alternative' electronics that conventional science doesn't understand" angle.  That was the disinformation and the basic question illustrated that point.

The person that insults and degrades is you, and you make a fool of yourself when you do it.  You didn't know the answer, no chance Synchro1 or Jbignes5 did.  If they knew they would have answered.  So you are lying.  Even the fact that you would claim they knew shows how low you are willing to stoop.  Everybody with half a brain sees through you - you make these ridiculous nonsensical statements where everybody knows you are lying, including you yourself.  It's pathetic.

Do you have any self-respect Magluvin?  That crap is the worst of the worst, just like watching awful gratuitous spinning on a political talk show by some sleazy out-of-control political hack.  It's gross and you are demeaning and degrading yourself when you act like that.

You talk about filling up the thread and then you give us a big treatise on working on a car???  The pot calling the kettle black.

Making a jackass out of yourself.  Taking a hypothetical example that anybody can relate to and talking about your own occupation.  That's just mindless logic that anybody can see through and you keep on digging that hole for yourself.

Mastering the basics is sound advice, not an insult.  More mindless nonsense from you.

Before I jumped back into this thread it was going nowhere and nobody even talked about the basic parameters for the coil.  Nobody dealt with what the self-resonance was all about, including you.  You had no concept and kept on confusing the AC and DC operation and I taught you.

You can take your whole sleazy and lying post and shove it up your exhaust pipe.  Be a man and not some MileHigh attack troll.  Get yourself some self respect and character.

MileHigh

"You are one piece of work Magluvin...."

Why thank you. Surely you jest.


"The question was posed for a valid reason, Jbignes5 made two postings filled with nonsense and disinformation whose roots stem from the "we are into 'alternative' electronics that conventional science doesn't understand" angle.  That was the disinformation and the basic question illustrated that point."

Jbigs is doing his thing. He is doing something that you cant get a grip on because most all you know about Tesla is from a documetary that you dont remember much of, like you said earlier in this thread. You belittle Tesla like a book that doesnt exist. You either know nothing, or you do know and just dont want to throw any credit his way, or some newbies might get on the net and look up some of the stuff Jbigs is talking about.



"The person that insults and degrades is you, and you make a fool of yourself when you do it.  You didn't know the answer, no chance Synchro1 or Jbignes5 did.  If they knew they would have answered.  So you are lying.  Even the fact that you would claim they knew shows how low you are willing to stoop.  Everybody with half a brain sees through you - you make these ridiculous nonsensical statements where everybody knows you are lying, including you yourself.  It's pathetic."

Oh really. You knew they would have answered?   Do you know how many times I have seen you repeatedly insist and reinsist again and again and again for people to answer your questions, over and over, because you didnt get an answer? lol  You just dont get it do you. You just cant get it through your thick goop of a skull that people dont want to answer your questions. You act as if the thread cant go on unless someone answers you. Screw you. Your pathetic.



"You didn't know the answer"

Dude Ive done a LOT of sim work on this stuff in the past year. I know that resistance must be factored into an inductor or transformer to come close to real world components. If I dont include that resistance then its just fantasy land, like Jbigs said earlier about it, and he is right, we will never experience your fantasy.  Again, what was the BIG point of your question anyways? I dont get the point other than you 'trying' to belittle the intelligence of these nice people here.

What if someone did answer you? Then what??  Would you say "ok then, carry on, this thread inspection is complete"    No, you would then take it a step further with a new question, and pages of you repeating and so on and so forth.

If someone did answer, and then answered your next step question, and the next, and the next, all until a time that you finally know and or believe that we get it now, then what? What if we still continue to experiment with expectations of possibly more than what you know?  Would we have to start at square one again because we could not possibly understand anything if we continue our endeavors into the forbidden world of Tesla??  Get a grip man. Gees. When does it end? Ill tell ya when it ends. When they stop posting because you drove them off. You have been banned before.  Lets just say it was because you were unlikeable.



""Do you have any self-respect Magluvin?  That crap is the worst of the worst, just like watching awful gratuitous spinning on a political talk show by some sleazy out-of-control political hack.  It's gross and you are demeaning and degrading yourself when you act like that"

Well its true isnt it? Shall I call the pose and we go back and look for how many times you have used the bad memory shtick?  There was one just the other day on the thread about Rose Ainslie. Its not hard to find them as they are plenty.


"You talk about filling up the thread and then you give us a big treatise on working on a car???  The pot calling the kettle black."

I was making a strong point.  You want answers, Im giving them to you, my way.


"Making a jackass out of yourself.  Taking a hypothetical example that anybody can relate to and talking about your own occupation.  That's just mindless logic that anybody can see through and you keep on digging that hole for yourself."

No. You were implying that nobody here could work on a car because they know nothing about the basics of inductors.    Joe Blows  Jow Blows  and Joe blow.  Jow Blow   Ok one more time,  Joe Blow..   Idiot

If it were so hypothetical, then explain the connection of ideal inductor science and todays automotive repair? You will not find a meter in the automotive repair 'industry' that measures inductance. Not one. Call up Snap-on, Matco tools, they will be like, 'umm wut?' Actually, if you can give me a single example of an auto tech that needs to measure 'inductance' or is even ever concerned about 'inductance' I will give you a dollar. lol  Actually a dollar for each one.



"Before I jumped back into this thread it was going nowhere and nobody even talked about the basic parameters for the coil.  Nobody dealt with what the self-resonance was all about, including you.  You had no concept and kept on confusing the AC and DC operation and I taught you."

You still have no clue. Im not looking for self-resonance.  Im not confused about anything. Its a pulse motor. DC pulses. If there is AC resonance at a particular rpm then so beit and we will check out what happens there also. Im looking for the coil to pop out a mag field faster than a normal coil. Is this not what I have been saying here or what?  Im not talking about back with Romero or Zeropoint132, Im talking about here and now.

Basic parameters of the coil?  I tell ya what. Here are some basic parameters. You go wind 2 coils 26awg 500turns, one regs and one bifi and you go right ahead work out those parameters.  Let me know what your bifi neasures in inductance compared to the regs jimmy. Ill be waiting for your answers and I wont be patient. Should I hound you each day for those answers? It works for you doesnt it?



"You had no concept and kept on confusing the AC and DC operation and I taught you."

Show me where you taught me!!  You always want us to prove things, well here is your 15 min of fame. Show me where you taught me as you state!!!  And THIS, I will hound you about till you come clean on that one jack. Count on that.


"You can take your whole sleazy and lying post and shove it up your exhaust pipe.  Be a man and not some MileHigh attack troll.  Get yourself some self respect and character."

Lying? Really??  Well Ill just have to take pics tomorrow of the 'dark green metalic' Merc and show you all the lies I told. Lies in HD.       Oh dont you worry if Im a man or not, lol , just have them answers on the page tomorrow you ole slicker you.


Mags

[MileHigh]

Magluvin piece of work part 2:

Jbignes5 was saying incorrect things and he was rightly challenged.  He asked me to pose the question because he wanted to take me up on the challenge.  And then he claimed that he answered it but he didn't.  He falsely claimed that a few sentences embedded in a paragraph were the answer.  The point of the question was to show that Jbignes5 did not have a mastery of the basics so that beginners would take a second look and consider all views on the subject.  The goal was to make the thread realistic and not your typical fantasy thread.

Kiss my ass about the memory issue.  It's crap and you know it.  If you think from now on you are going to try to claim I have "memory problems" all the time then you are just making a jackass out of yourself.  So I am asking you to stop it right now.

No. You were implying that nobody here could work on a car

Pure garbage, self-degrading idiocy on your part.  Fool talk from a person that pretends he can't understand a hypothetical example.  Why are you playing stupid?  You are not scoring any points like that.  How low can you go?

Actually, if you can give me a single example of an auto tech that needs to measure 'inductance' or is even ever concerned about 'inductance' I will give you a dollar. lol  Actually a dollar for each one.

Have you been hit in the head with a 16-ton weight like in a cartoon?  I think you need to bang your head again to get back to normal.

You still have no clue. Im not looking for self-resonance.  Im not confused about anything. Its a pulse motor.

This thread is not about your pulse motor.  You only introduced that very recently.  Wake up!

Should I hound you each day for those answers?

Yeah you could hound me if I agreed to answer your question, then didn't actually answer your question, and then claimed that I did answer your question.  But I am not going to answer your question so the whole thing is moot.

Show me where you taught me!!

It happened just a few weeks ago where I corrected your mistake.  Remember I reminded you that you didn't have enough character or integrity to even thank me?

pics tomorrow of the 'dark green metalic' Merc

We are not talking about your car work Magluvin, still more nonsense from you.

You are doing a great job of digging yourself deeper into that hole.  Stop trolling me Magluvin.

MileHigh

[MileHigh]

Here is the example you asked for Magluvin, it's from July 4th:

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Magluvin:

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The difference between the 2 voltages is 2500%.  And the parts of my post you neglected to reply on explain percent levels up to 60,000% difference. Not beating on you here but I think those are important and very significant numbers while we are having this conversation.

I read all of your comments I just responded in a generic way at the beginning of the posting.  If you try to measure the capacitive energy in the SBC coil it will be interesting.

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So in 'reality' , there is nothing high freq about 60hz, is there? Now replace that 100nf cap with a 1uf cap. What would our operating freq be then? Pretty much subsonic.  So maybe we can ditch the fact that we are only limited to high freq operation, as long as we have large enough bifi inductance in our motors.

It may be possible, but I seem to recall various testers getting their coils to self-resonate in the hundreds of kilohertz to megahertz range.  I don't know how big you want to go but it sounds to me like 60 Henries is one big mother of a coil.

If you can get low frequency resonance, what do you want to do with that coil?

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The way I see it, if we want to use high inductance coils in our pulse motors, more than likely the rise time of the coil is going to be slow, limiting the max potential of its field strength within the time allotment of on time of the switch. Depending on the speed of the motor and switching of course.

You are actually suggesting a good experiment.  Test different drive coil configurations where you vary the inductance.  Is there a 'sweet spot' for the drive coil inductance?

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So by 'neutralizing' the self inductance of a very high inductance coil, we eliminate rise time in the coil. The coil will produce max field much faster than a regular coil, giving a sharper pulse than a normal coil of similar inductance and be able to shorten the on time of the switch being we dont have to wait for the field to build like a normal coil.

Another issue worth revisiting.  You are not visualizing this properly.  The 'neutralizing of the self inductance' relates to the coil acting as a band pass filter for an AC signal.  At the resonance frequency the complex impedance will drop to zero and you will be left with just the wire resistance.  When you talk about rise time in the coil this is for the coil acting in a pulse circuit, a different animal.  You will have to wait for the field to build in an SBC coil the same as in a normal coil as a the voltage starts to overcome the inductance and gets it to move.  We know that the SBC coil and the same-sized normal coil have approximately the same inductance, and thee is no short-cut like you believe.  You are mixing apples and oranges.  Check it out for yourself on the bench.

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Having the capacitance distributed throughout the coil with much higher potential levels between turns can draw in current through the coil, especially if the capacitance is between turns that are not physically connected electrically just 1 turn away. I believe a normal coil has an inrush of current in relation to its very tiny capacitance's in series from one end of the coil to the other.

That sounds reasonable to me.  It's hard to know exactly what the dynamics are for the SBC coil and capacitive charge distribution in the coil and how the current might flow, etc.  It may be next to impossible to measure because any current associated with charging the inter-loop capacitance may be superimposed on the main current flow as the inductor energizes.  You sound like you want to do the investigation and it should be fun.  I think looking for differences between a standard coil and an SBC coil, same dimensions, same wire and turns, would be your best bet at detecting something of note.  I don't think you have a DSO but you might have a USB scope?  That would come in handy.

Just to look at this one more time:

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Here is something to think about. If we have an LC and we apply a voltage across its ends, what would happen immediately? The cap would charge, and fast. So if you think a bifi coil is the same as just a coil with a cap across it, then you must believe that the capacitance in the bifi would do the same, correct?  And where is that capacitor in the bifi coil?  Its in the coil!!  (http://www.overunity.com/Smileys/default/wink.gif) With the bifi we have just neutralized the self inductance of the coil and current would flow instantly.

Here is the problem in a nutshell:  Even though the capacitance is there, the current still has to corkscrew though the coil.  So on its way to charge the inter-loop capacitance the current still has to overcome the inductance and push it along.  The dynamics of it are not trivial.

Here is something that may be applicable to visualize what is going on.  You take the analogy of inductance as the massless spring and capacitance as the mass.   So an LC resonator is like a massless spring affixed to a concrete wall on one end and to the oscillating mass on the other end.  Imagine that setup about pallet-sized with a big 100-turn mechanical spring made out of thin Berryllium and a 10 kilogram mass on a very low friction surface oscillating back and forth at about 5 Hz. Let's assume that the spring is not too stiff hence the low oscillation frequency.

We know pure inductance is represented by a massless spring.  But you have a real-world spring you know it's made of a loop of wire with windings that have mass.  Mass is capacitance, and the SBC coil has inter-loop capacitance.

So, it's very possible that a real-world spring with mass would be a decent model for how an SBC coil behaves.  So imagine kicking that big spring and watching it vibrate and wiggle in a kind of random and unstable way until it rings down completely and stops moving.  Even think of doing something similar as a kid with a Slinky, where you pull the slinky tight and then pluck it to send waves bouncing back and forth through the loops.  It's possible that the SBC coil will behave like that in the electrical domain.  You never know...

MileHigh
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I guess you forgot.

MileHigh

[Magluvin]

"It happened just a few weeks ago where I corrected your mistake.  Remember I reminded you that you didn't have enough character or integrity to even thank me?"

Thats easy enough to spit out as some sort of proof. Thats why I said to provide links and quotes. But you did not include that in your quote of me above, selectively of course. Thats a good example of how you work, and the good readers will learn from that.

Show me the quotes and links.

Mags

[Magluvin]

Prove what you say otherwise its useless.  Right?

Mags