Small amount of HHO Gas into automotive Catalytic converter yields OU heat??

[Magluvin]

Hey Woopy

The gas itself, no flame, reacts when it hits the cat material, and the flame happens because of the material getting hot or burning?

Just checking to be sure. The other vid it looks like you heated the core then applied just gas. But the hot spot happens with cold gas when the material is cold, right?

Would be interesting to cut out a 3 by 3 block of the cat and make a gas nozzle that was 'sealed' to one open side pumping the gas in all 9 holes. Would the whole block glow real bright, or possibly some flame out the other side.   But then meter the gas to see how little it takes to produce a certain amount of heat. See, just blowing the gas to the surface of the block, some gas may not be cooking. Dunno. But if pushed through the holes, there will be more gas contacting more surface area possibly having more reaction with the material rather than burning off because of surface combustion or burn.

In the last vid, the spot was brighter with just gas, no tip flame. It might be that a lot of the heat with a flame at the tip, is happening in the flame instead of on the surface as compared to just raw gas contact where it seems the reaction is happening at the surface of the material.

I have a small block at my shop. Ill give it a go. Gota set up an hho gen. Have a couple setups already, just need to set them up, so they are set. Up. lol  Cool stuff

Mags

[jdc.products@gmail.com]

The reaction of oxyhydrogen (Browm Gas, Knallgas) on platinum has been extensively researched since the 19th century.

It is an interesting "Heterogeneously Catalyzed Reaction", but not OU.

Please view the folowing links and scientific papers:

http://www.minotech.de/forschung/hho-technologie/heizen-mit-hho/ (in German, chapters 4 and 5 are on the topic)

http://books.google.at/books?id=TiG6eo4GVv8C&pg=PA3&lpg=PA3&dq=oxyhydrogen+platinum+reaction&source=bl&ots=qBVSwwT8H_&sig=Sd7h2UwzHqOR38VOH4vTsa7i7Qw&hl=de&sa=X&ei=KIrmUqWVM6GqyAOmpYGYBg&ved=0CFAQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=oxyhydrogen%20platinum%20reaction&f=false  (Heterogeneously Catalyzed Reactions, second half of the book page)

http://www.google.at/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=12&ved=0CDAQFjABOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fpublication%2F222236058_Kinetics_of_the_hydrogen-oxygen_reaction_on_platinum%2Ffile%2F32bfe5118f770781c9.pdf&ei=tIvmUo_UD6Px4QSiy4HICg&usg=AFQjCNG5ON9V9e9YIdxDujAqDJhQ0XbN5A&bvm=bv.59930103,d.bGQ&cad=rja (the reaction is specified at the beginning of the article)

http://www.google.at/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CDwQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.platinummetalsreview.com%2Fpdf%2Fpmr-v10-i2-060-064.pdf&ei=9ozmUriUAeKM4AT-3oCwDg&usg=AFQjCNEiEl-ScmivigKiPxuqnfwVNXDs8Q&bvm=bv.59930103,d.bGE&cad=rja (1966 some things were not clear yet)

http://www.google.at/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=9&ved=0CHoQFjAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcfg.web.psi.ch%2Fclean_air.pdf&ei=9ozmUriUAeKM4AT-3oCwDg&usg=AFQjCNGGsifdttDfIT-TnQ4_lAKPDqd_Rg&bvm=bv.59930103,d.bGE&cad=rja

It is not a debunk attempt, I just want to make people aware of the state of the art.

Greetings, Conrad

I am the small time garage engineer that stumbled upon the effect and I agree we need an element of skepticism to this but at the same time, I found it very curious it was difficult to find any experiments of this effect with pure hho not Hydrogen + air mixtures. I was unable to find any YouTube videos or any good information online. Not a single person or group had built and tested an on demand hho catalytic heater. I had to go back 100 years to find anything on it. Then I started to find modern information where the United States Military was using the process to build Hydrogen Nuclear Reactors. I have tried to keep up with modern work on Cold Fusion or LENR and realized this process is a long the same lines as what they are doing.

One thing I can say is that sometimes, you cannot learn everything by trying to read a report or book. You have to get out there and run the experiments. Since there were really no video experiments before, I had nothing to go by.

I can tell you right now that this process is very very efficient at producing heat. The flame does not have to be lit. 99 percent of every hho heater attempt is using the tiny hho flame up against a metal or ceramic heat exchanger. The catalytic combustion of hho is much more powerful and intense in terms of heat output using the same amount of gas which is void of the flame. So its much more efficient than lighting the torch.

With 200 watts of power. I was able to bring the internals of a catalytic converter up over 1200F with the exterior of the cat around 600 degrees. Very very HOT for only 200 watts. The catalytic converter is a large chunk of metal with a large chunk of ceramic substrates inside. Nothing like a tiny 200 watt resistive type heater that is heating up a tiny coil of wire. 

I will try to read all of the information. A couple of browsed I have already reviewed but from a person who is doing the experiments that has engineering credentials, I can definitely tell you this deserves more experimentation, study, and development.

The process also produces 99.99 percent pure hydrogen when used as a catalytic re-combiner off a hydrogen split cell so even without the heating uses, It can be used to purify hydrogen for safe bottling. Which was the road I was on until I stumbled upon an incredible amount of heat out.

[jdc.products@gmail.com]

@Laurent:

This is called limelight:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxyhydrogen#Lighting

"Lighting: Many forms of oxyhydrogen lamps have been described, such as the limelight, which used an oxyhydrogen flame to heat a piece of lime to white hot incandescence.^[10] Because of the explosiveness of the oxyhydrogen, limelights have been replaced by electric lighting."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limelight

Almost any ceramic will work.

Again, I am not debunking, just stating what is known and has been used, but it was used before electricity, therefore now widely unknown.

Brown gas was one of the first gases researched extensively in the 19th century and at the beginning of the 20th century. It was also involved in the discovery of catalsyts like platinum. What can be done with HHO (platinum, ceramic light) can also be done with most natural gases but at higher temperatures. In fact the car catalysator is based on this principle.

HHO is still used in the jewelry industrie to weld platinum and gold without adding something (gold or platinum is just molten and flows together).

You can find almost all effects of HHO alone and on catalysts (platinum, ceramic) in the (rather old) literature. It would be wise to research that before doing all the research again. Start with what is already known, that saves time and resources. It hurts to see people stumbling upon things which are all well known for a long time and misinterpreting them.

A flame only has a very small hot region (a lance in the middle where the HHO reacts completely, on the outside of the flame most of the HHO escapes unburned). HHO on the catalyst (without visible flame) reacts immediately on a big surface area therefor the light and the intense heat. One can say that less HHO escapes unburned if blown on a catalyst.

Also note that many people got hurt playing with HHO (brown gas, Knallgas, oxyhydrogen).

Greetings, Conrad

What woopy is demonstrating is not a "limelight" I have built a lime light and it doesn't function on the catalytic combustion of hho process. The flame is lit and is placed in contact with the lime causing the lime to emit a very bright light but emits very little "heat".

I have not found a hydro carbon fuel or gas yet that doesn't need to be pre heated or the substrate pre-heated to start the catalytic combustion process. Every catalytic heater on the market has a pre-heater. HHO in its purest forms reacts in seconds without the need for pre-heating and seems to produce more heat than the hydrocarbon. Most likely due to the pure oxygen content but none the less hho has more punch when it comes to catalytic combustion than any other hydrocarbon.

This process does not use the the hho flame. Only inputs of the gas in unaltered form straight out of the hho cell. The reaction is flameless and the only by product is pure and clean water. This is by far the safest way to heat with hho. One thing you cannot provide information on is on demand hho catalytic combustion heaters going up against the same wattage electric resistive heaters. The experiments do not exists. Most of the information your going to find is very old and only pertains to H2 with air mixtures. Very little on PURE HHO.

The process is not just useful for heat, which by the way after the experiments, is proving to be very efficent but has other fascinating uses which can empower the individual. We can use the process to purify Hydrogen gas to 99.99 percent so its safe for bottling. We can use the process to build our own solid state fuel cells or solid oxide fuel cells large enough to power a house or car and we can get the parts straight out of the junk yard.

For me, I haven't seen next to no work being done in the YouTube and online community to teach people about home brewing these types of technologies. Maybe you haven't done as much research as I've done but I can tell you one thing for certain. Yes the technology is very old but our own government has been investing billions in the research since the early 1900's and have built amazing technologies from it. Yet I don't know one person in my family, town, state, country that is using the same technology to power their homes, heat their homes, or power their cars. Generations before me are in the same boat. We haven't even been given a choice. I only started this research because I couldn't buy any of the technology on the shelf and nobody in my area, family included had even heard of it. I have come to realize that even something as simple as the Solar Hydrogen Storage system I have been developing could have been on the market decades ago and would cost no more than a Gaming console.

As I was looking for Hydrogen Catalytic heaters I also found the only establishments building them were institutions like Nasa and they were building kilowatt and megawatt systems. Yet again I could find no Hydrogen Catalytic heater for sale on the market even as small as a few hundred watts. All I could find was people who took it upon their-selves to convert off the shelf propane or natural gas catalytic heaters to hydrogen. Reports suggested Hydrogen runs hotter in these heaters too. Something aint jiving with that. No reason this stuff is not on the market, no reason my parents and grandparents have never used it or even heard of it. No reason I have to use a toxic hydrocarbon like propane when the same equipment could be retrofitted to burn clean Hydrogen and the only by-product is water. Heating with hydrogen also means no ventilation is necessary.

This stuff is not hard to build, its not expensive to build, and its not as dangerous as everyone makes it out to be. Again as I said in the previous post. We need skepticism but for the most part, the only thing people can come up with as evidence that there is nothing to this effect is old reports. No video experiments of any of it exists. Thats a problem.

This effect deserves more study and development, not just for the home brewed heating applications but also the home brewed storage and fuel cell applications. It doesn't take tens of thousands of dollars to own a solar hydrogen unit or high kilowatt fuel cell system. It takes clever engineers using parts out of the junk yard to build the system that our corporate structure will not release into market.

[ramset]

Each Catalyst is Completely unique to its application,and will only Catalyse [or generate a reaction ] when the elements it was designed for are present.

Palladium loves hydrogen not carbon ,I am not sure there are Carbon catalysts that react this way.

I found that while researching the brush plating materials for Palladium that the hydrogen in there plating solutions was a very big problem for these Palladium electrolyte manufactures .....

as pointed out this is a well known reaction studied more than you could imagine,unless this process makes more heat then the power to seperate the molecules in the first place
no one would heat there homes or heat there water with it since that would be wasting money .
an electric resistive heating element is almost 100 % efficient

if the HHO does not beat a resistor in a comparison test then it is wasting energy and money to go this way.

That being said I hope someone does the Rediculously Simple test outlined in this thread
"fixed loss to ambient" test.
Justin My Offer stands ,I will send you all you need to do this test,I am hoping it Kicks the resistors Butt!


Thx
Chet

[conradelektro]

I am the small time garage engineer that stumbled upon the effect and I agree we need an element of skepticism to this but at the same time, I found it very curious it was difficult to find any experiments of this effect with pure hho not Hydrogen + air mixtures. I was unable to find any YouTube videos or any good information online. Not a single person or group had built and tested an on demand hho catalytic heater. I had to go back 100 years to find anything on it. Then I started to find modern information where the United States Military was using the process to build Hydrogen Nuclear Reactors. I have tried to keep up with modern work on Cold Fusion or LENR and realized this process is a long the same lines as what they are doing.

One thing I can say is that sometimes, you cannot learn everything by trying to read a report or book. You have to get out there and run the experiments. Since there were really no video experiments before, I had nothing to go by.

My only point is that a literature search saves a lot of work. You have to go to the library of a University. The libraries can all be searched online today. In Austria everybody can have online and physical access to the University libraries for 10.-- EUR a year. You need that to find useful literature.

I can tell you right now that this process is very very efficient at producing heat. The flame does not have to be lit. 99 percent of every hho heater attempt is using the tiny hho flame up against a metal or ceramic heat exchanger. The catalytic combustion of hho is much more powerful and intense in terms of heat output using the same amount of gas which is void of the flame. So its much more efficient than lighting the torch.

Yes, I agree.

I can definitely tell you this deserves more experimentation, study, and development.

Yes, but do it right, do not ignore the relevant literature. That sounds difficult, but it saves you years of research.

What woopy is demonstrating is not a "limelight" I have built a lime light and it doesn't function on the catalytic combustion of hho process. The flame is lit and is placed in contact with the lime causing the lime to emit a very bright light but emits very little "heat".

I do not want to go into that right now, it is a very difficult subject which needs a lot of knowledge to be discussed in a meaningful way.

I have not found a hydro carbon fuel or gas yet that doesn't need to be pre heated or the substrate pre-heated to start the catalytic combustion process. Every catalytic heater on the market has a pre-heater. HHO in its purest forms reacts in seconds without the need for pre-heating and seems to produce more heat than the hydrocarbon. Most likely due to the pure oxygen content but none the less hho has more punch when it comes to catalytic combustion than any other hydrocarbon.

Yes, I agree. HHO is the only gas which can do the reaction at room temperature with a catalyst like platinum.

This process does not use the the hho flame. Only inputs of the gas in unaltered form straight out of the hho cell. The reaction is flameless and the only by product is pure and clean water. This is by far the safest way to heat with hho.

Yes, I agree.

For me, I haven't seen next to no work being done in the YouTube and online community to teach people about home brewing these types of technologies. Maybe you haven't done as much research as I've done but I can tell you one thing for certain. Yes the technology is very old but our own government has been investing billions in the research since the early 1900's and have built amazing technologies from it. Yet I don't know one person in my family, town, state, country that is using the same technology to power their homes, heat their homes, or power their cars. Generations before me are in the same boat. We haven't even been given a choice. I only started this research because I couldn't buy any of the technology on the shelf and nobody in my area, family included had even heard of it. I have come to realize that even something as simple as the Solar Hydrogen Storage system I have been developing could have been on the market decades ago and would cost no more than a Gaming console.

As I was looking for Hydrogen Catalytic heaters I also found the only establishments building them were institutions like Nasa and they were building kilowatt and megawatt systems. Yet again I could find no Hydrogen Catalytic heater for sale on the market even as small as a few hundred watts. All I could find was people who took it upon their-selves to convert off the shelf propane or natural gas catalytic heaters to hydrogen. Reports suggested Hydrogen runs hotter in these heaters too. Something aint jiving with that. No reason this stuff is not on the market, no reason my parents and grandparents have never used it or even heard of it. No reason I have to use a toxic hydrocarbon like propane when the same equipment could be retrofitted to burn clean Hydrogen and the only by-product is water. Heating with hydrogen also means no ventilation is necessary.

Yes, again, do not ignore the literature, but you have to use a University library. YouTube does not give you the information needed.

This stuff is not hard to build, its not expensive to build, and its not as dangerous as everyone makes it out to be. Again as I said in the previous post. We need skepticism but for the most part, the only thing people can come up with as evidence that there is nothing to this effect is old reports. No video experiments of any of it exists. Thats a problem.

This effect deserves more study and development, not just for the home brewed heating applications but also the home brewed storage and fuel cell applications. It doesn't take tens of thousands of dollars to own a solar hydrogen unit or high kilowatt fuel cell system. It takes clever engineers using parts out of the junk yard to build the system that our corporate structure will not release into market.

Still, be careful, it may explode if you make an error. And again, do it the right way, search the literature first. I know, it is boring to search the relevant literature, but every researcher learns the hard way (by doing things which have been done before again and again) not to ignore an exhaustive literature search. Wherever you live, go to the nearest University and explore how you can have access to its library, online and physical access. I might be easier than you think.

Very essential in chemistry is acces to that http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_Abstracts_Service

I do not want to discourage experiments, but you have to do it right in order to have success. Do not underestimate the knowledge which is already available. The fore front of research is much more advanced than you might think. Use what is already here, do not start in the 19th century by ignoring what has been found since then.

Yes, it is unfair that you need tons of information and expensive equipment to do advanced research, but how do you want to overcome that? By a home experiment? You can only find the real uncovered areas in science by understanding what has already been covered. You can not fight with a stick against high tech guns.

Greetings, Conrad