T-(Shaped) Turbine, Which uses Centrifugal Force

[Overunityguide]

1. For a given rpm (u choose one) of the system without any water flow (just vertical pipe in water), how much power (or if u wish energy) do u need to make it spin?
2. How much energy do u need to make it spin with the same rpm but with the pipes full of water, but no water flow (fill the pipes with water and then seal them)?
3. How much energy u need to achieve same rpm but with water flow now?

Also I agree that an impulse turbine (aka Pelton) should be used to minimize the Coriolis effect. That is in direct relation with the water flow. Question: Increasing the cross section of horizontal pipes can help? (aka make the flow rate smaller).

@ mihai.isteniuc

I am using the man/hand powered setup to feel how much force is being needed to rotate the device by my self.

To come back on your questions:
1. No Water and No Water Flow in the T-(Shaped) arrangement. This turns around quite easy.
2. Water in the T-(Shaped) arrangement, but sealed. So No Water Flow. This takes more power to start, but when it rotates it will take about the same energy as in the previous step.
3. Water Flowing in the T-(Shaped) arrangement. This takes more power then in the previous steps. The higher the Flow Rate, the higher the resistance to turn it around . (aka Coriolis Effect)

So Low Flow Rate and High Pressure will be the Key. (Pelton Turbines are advised to use)

Furthermore about the cross section of of the horizontal pipes I can tell that it is important to keep them big enough, so that water can flow quite easy with low resistance inside the pipe.

[mihai.isteniuc]

Hi OUG,

Thanks for your tests and answers. I believe we all expected this kind of behavior. The real problems is that the water molecules aren't happy to be put to work, so they are fighting back with us. The more they travel from the center towards the end of the horizontal pipes the more they fight. Agree with all your conclusions.

I believe we have to back engineer the device. I'm thinking we need the Pelton turbines 1st. They will decide how big the entire test machinery will be, and dictate everything: water flow, length and shape of the horizontal pipes, cross sections and rotation speed, power of the motor and generators and so on. We cant go to some workshop and ask the guys there to execute a few. They are quite complicated and need a lot of calculation and careful design. For testing we need something simple and easy to modify if needed. I'm thinking on plastic tea spoons for beginning. I'll start digging in this direction to see how we can manufacture some cheap but efficient Pelton turbines for our tests. Also buying them is not an option because they have very big prices, even the ones made out from plastic.


I believe i have find some simulation software to see if we can better understand how Coriolis work and what can we do to minimize it (the way i see it now: even if we can design a curved horizontal pipe that will minimize the impact of Coriolis with the pipe, the problem is still there. The Coriolis will then increase the pressure inside the pipes because the new coming water molecules hit the ones before them and so on. I'm not really sure. It is possible that curved or not the results with both designs to be similar). Regarding software no promises cause i only read a little, didn't even install it. Will keep u posted.

@vineet_kiran: interesting suggestion regarding the sponge. Didn't see it that way. Also i think this idea should be tested cause I can really "see" what's happen with the water molecules in this case and how much the water flow and pressure are affected by the sponge ... hmmmm


Mihai

[Overunityguide]

The real problems is that the water molecules aren't happy to be put to work, so they are fighting back with us. The more they travel from the center towards the end of the horizontal pipes the more they fight. Agree with all your conclusions.

Yes this looks to be true. Once the water molecules are turned around but not being displaced inside the tubes, they seem to be perfectly happy. But when the water molecules starts to move towards the circumference (while being rotated of course) they seem to be less satisfied... So the faster they move, the more they try to resist the rotating action... So less Flow and More Pressure (Centrifugal Force) is what we need. As discussed before (Pelton Turbines needs to be used at each end of the rotating horizontal pipes)

I Love your idea about the tea spoons b.t.w. And Yes I know the prices which are asked for even small plastic Pelton/Turgo Turbines are really ridiculous.

For myself I am thinking about a rotating structure with two (simple) custom build plastic Pelton Turbines. Which propel the structure by its self, by means of a belt like arrangement. In which the belt goes from the turbines towards a fixed and stationary center wheel.

[Overunityguide]

 For now, to make it a bit more clear. I made a drawing of the T/S-(Shaped) Turbine concept, which is being equipped with two Pelton Turbines... (this one is supposed to be a self-runner)

[miloszlaw]

And something like that?