Dynamic spiral motor animation.

[mikestocks2006]

Dingus,

If you get a spare moment can you please take a look at my "vortex magnet motor" design and see if you can do the FEMM for it too. I have no idea how to use that system but would be very interested in your feedback.

Cheers,

Dean

Sadly FEMM only models 2d planar equations, so it would be impossiblt to model your vortex concept. As for my feed back, after veiwing the configuration of the armature spiralled  magnets, it would appear that your motor can only go one cycle before energy is extracted from the system to push the top most magnet stack past the cog point. In short I dont believe the concept will work yet with out using an electromagnet =( Perhaps you should look in to Dr Minato and his spiral magnet geometry to see how you can use the same concepts in a conjuction with your design. I do like how you stacked the magnets inside the cone but I feel it would work beter it the magnets were being added 0-360 and not from top to bottom. It is a very interesting design though, that will be keeping my eye on...

Good Luck on all your tests!
Hope to hear more about your findings soon!

Hi Dingus,
Can your FEMM model the "neutral plane" or "line" in your case since it is a 2d model?
The plane exists at a certain distance away from the permanent magnet, where a soft iron is attracted but no polarity is induced on it. I've tested it experimentally and it works as per Gary's Patent. I was just curious on how do the flux lines look around that area.
thx for the animations too.


Also a question to all the coilers in the forum ( I'm not sure which is the best thread to post). Is there a way to crate a coil that has a zero or extremely low drag EMF or is it back EMF? I read up on the Mobius loop design, can it be incorporated so when an outside magnetic flux is removed, the coil offers minimal or very low magnetic drag to the source (if metallic) that is removing the magnetic flux? Or to the magnetic flux source itself?
I assume the coil has to be coreless to begin with?
Thx

[Dingus Mungus]

Dingus,

If you get a spare moment can you please take a look at my "vortex magnet motor" design and see if you can do the FEMM for it too. I have no idea how to use that system but would be very interested in your feedback.

Cheers,

Dean

Sadly FEMM only models 2d planar equations, so it would be impossiblt to model your vortex concept. As for my feed back, after veiwing the configuration of the armature spiralled  magnets, it would appear that your motor can only go one cycle before energy is extracted from the system to push the top most magnet stack past the cog point. In short I dont believe the concept will work yet with out using an electromagnet =( Perhaps you should look in to Dr Minato and his spiral magnet geometry to see how you can use the same concepts in a conjuction with your design. I do like how you stacked the magnets inside the cone but I feel it would work beter it the magnets were being added 0-360 and not from top to bottom. It is a very interesting design though, that will be keeping my eye on...

Good Luck on all your tests!
Hope to hear more about your findings soon!

Hi Dingus,
Can your FEMM model the "neutral plane" or "line" in your case since it is a 2d model?
The plane exists at a certain distance away from the permanent magnet, where a soft iron is attracted but no polarity is induced on it. I've tested it experimentally and it works as per Gary's Patent. I was just curious on how do the flux lines look around that area.
thx for the animations too.


Also a question to all the coilers in the forum ( I'm not sure which is the best thread to post). Is there a way to crate a coil that has a zero or extremely low drag EMF or is it back EMF? I read up on the Mobius loop design, can it be incorporated so when an outside magnetic flux is removed, the coil offers minimal or very low magnetic drag to the source (if metallic) that is removing the magnetic flux? Or to the magnetic flux source itself?
I assume the coil has to be coreless to begin with?
Thx

About the models being 2d, that statement was a little misleading, You can assign a static depth to the simulation and it is a top or side view of the flux density. If you could send me more info on the model you would like to see (sizes of iron stator and magnet, distances, Magnetic materials used) I would be glad to model the expirement for you.

I have also wondered many nights about removing drag or back emf from magnetic inductance. I have often wondered if superconducting materials at threshold temperature are able to do this since they are able to transmit power without any heat loss, RF, or resistence... Just a thought I've had... (too bad I can possibly afford superconducting wire huh) 

[mikestocks2006]

Dingus,

If you get a spare moment can you please take a look at my "vortex magnet motor" design and see if you can do the FEMM for it too. I have no idea how to use that system but would be very interested in your feedback.

Cheers,

Dean

Sadly FEMM only models 2d planar equations, so it would be impossiblt to model your vortex concept. As for my feed back, after veiwing the configuration of the armature spiralled  magnets, it would appear that your motor can only go one cycle before energy is extracted from the system to push the top most magnet stack past the cog point. In short I dont believe the concept will work yet with out using an electromagnet =( Perhaps you should look in to Dr Minato and his spiral magnet geometry to see how you can use the same concepts in a conjuction with your design. I do like how you stacked the magnets inside the cone but I feel it would work beter it the magnets were being added 0-360 and not from top to bottom. It is a very interesting design though, that will be keeping my eye on...

Good Luck on all your tests!
Hope to hear more about your findings soon!

Hi Dingus,
Can your FEMM model the "neutral plane" or "line" in your case since it is a 2d model?
The plane exists at a certain distance away from the permanent magnet, where a soft iron is attracted but no polarity is induced on it. I've tested it experimentally and it works as per Gary's Patent. I was just curious on how do the flux lines look around that area.
thx for the animations too.


Also a question to all the coilers in the forum ( I'm not sure which is the best thread to post). Is there a way to crate a coil that has a zero or extremely low drag EMF or is it back EMF? I read up on the Mobius loop design, can it be incorporated so when an outside magnetic flux is removed, the coil offers minimal or very low magnetic drag to the source (if metallic) that is removing the magnetic flux? Or to the magnetic flux source itself?
I assume the coil has to be coreless to begin with?
Thx

About the models being 2d, that statement was a little misleading, You can assign a static depth to the simulation and it is a top or side view of the flux density. If you could send me more info on the model you would like to see (sizes of iron stator and magnet, distances, Magnetic materials used) I would be glad to model the expirement for you.

I have also wondered many nights about removing drag or back emf from magnetic inductance. I have often wondered if superconducting materials at threshold temperature are able to do this since they are able to transmit power without any heat loss, RF, or resistence... Just a thought I've had... (too bad I can possibly afford superconducting wire huh) 

The strength If I recall from the package was not more than 1000 gauss. probably a bit less.
Keeper bar is soft iron Length 1-1/4", Width 1/4", Thickness 3/32"
Magnet is Horseshoe  2" Long, 1-1/4" Width, 1/4"Thick (uniform thickness), Poles width 7/16"

Using the procedure as in Gary's Motor Patent http://www.rexresearch.com/gary/gary1.htm

The neutral plane appears to be around 1/16-3/32? away from the poles.

Thanks for your time and offer to model this. Curious how the flux looks around there when the keeper bar even though is magnetized it has NO POLARITY! And that?s a very interesting phenomenon imo.

To see the effect graphically scroll down the above link/page.
Thx again


Ps:  Al Francoeurs actually has repeated the experiment and apparently got it to work. Pics and wording:
Al Francoeurs Gary Motor Replication
http://www.keelynet.com/energy/gary2001.htm

[Dingus Mungus]

I dont know if this is what you were asking for but rexresearch was down and I felt like doing some sim's anyways. (bored...)

I hope this is accurate to your design request:
(the results were inconclusive) 

[Dingus Mungus]

I say inconslusive because there is a small lateral magnetic field in the soft iron bar.
I will now see how that field will interact with a stator magnet at the other end while in all positions.

(I attached a pic of the field in switch "null" position)