Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy

[poynt99]

Right. What about a magnets field inducing a coil.  Say we have 2 inline air core coils about an inch apart.  We input a sine wave into one coil and we get an output from the other coil, no matter the intensity, we never the less get output. And it is being presented that it is the E field that induces or generates the currents in the secondary, not the mag fields.

Yes, that is what I am asserting.

Now, lets just put dc on the input coil. If we move that coil with dc input back and forth, closer and farther away from the inline secondary, what field is inducing or generating the currents in the secondary? E fields or mag fields?

The E field.

And then, we replace the input coil with a magnet and move it back and forth to and from the receiving coil. What fields are creating the currents in the receiving coil??? E field or mag field???

The E field.

There seems to be the idea of just a swap out of mag field to the E field happening here without much reasoning as to how that conclusion is arrived at.

The B field is manifested, but the resulting E field is what actually induces the emf in the secondary.

Like sayin to wrap the ground lead of the scope through the core to measure the E field doesnt enlighten me, as I could say that it is the mag fields traversing over the hole of the core that is inducing the scope lead.

What were the results of your testing with the Hall probe to determine how much, if any, magnetic field exists outside the energized core of a toroid coil?

Also, if we were to assume for a moment that the flux does traverse the hole of the core, is the flux in the right orientation to "cut" the windings of the secondary?

[poynt99]

Ok,lets add something else to all this.
below is a picture of two homopolar generators. Lets just assume that they are rotating fast enough to create enough voltage to run the LED,and that the magnets and disc rotate together. V1 shows that the brushes and LED are stationary,while V2 shows that there is no brushes,and the LED is rotating with the disc and magnets.The disc and magnets are spun in the direction so as the current flow is correct for the LED to conduct.

So now the questions are
1-will the LED light in V2
2- If the LED dose light in V2, is there the lorentz force present,and if so,how and where dose it act upon the rotating mass?.

1. Yes. The fact that the led rotates with the magnet and disc should change nothing in terms of the induce emf.

2. If in fact Lorentz (as opposed to the E field) is responsible for the induced emf, it does so by driving an electron flow from the center of the disc to the outside of the disc.

[Vortex1]

Just about every thinking person that plays with homopolar motor / generators eventually gets around to the idea of eliminating the brushes, since they are usually a large loss in these low voltage very high current machines. They usually consider mercury slip rings at this point, such as the large impulse energy machines developed by the US Navy Research or the much smaller machines by DePalma.

Then comes the idea they can have the external circuit rotate with the magnets and still work as a generator or motor.

The external circuit must have a different frame of reference than the rotation of the magnets, either a fixed frame of reference, or moving at some other speed or even counter-rotating relative to the magnets for an EMF to be developed.

If V2 were possible it would usher in a new era of dragless generators and motors that would produce torque in free air with nothing to push against. Clearly this has never been demonstrated in these machines, although tried by many.

Regards
Vortex1

[Magluvin]

Yes, that is what I am asserting.
The E field.
The E field.

The B field is manifested, but the resulting E field is what actually induces the emf in the secondary.
What were the results of your testing with the Hall probe to determine how much, if any, magnetic field exists outside the energized core of a toroid coil?

Also, if we were to assume for a moment that the flux does traverse the hole of the core, is the flux in the right orientation to "cut" the windings of the secondary?

"What were the results of your testing with the Hall probe to determine how much, if any, magnetic field exists outside the energized core of a toroid coil?"


They were not done yet.  Went through my stash of cores and previously wound items.  I chose one that I liked more to the fact that it came from a high end car amplifier. Back in the 90s several companies like Soundstream, Rockford Fosgate, Phoenix Gold and Precision Power really took their business seriously. There was some big controversy among some that the other was cheating in reference to claimed RMS power and actual power output.  And it became a very big deal considering the growing popularity of competitions and claiming rights to winning titles. So things got really serious when it came to design and performance for some years, including how much power was lost in the dc to dc power supplies and some of the systems were up to 60kw, the most I know of.  60  15in subs with a 1kw amp on each. Was built into a large brinks truck.

Anyway, I chose a core from a Sounstream Ref705.  It was considered a 1kw amp, even though the rating at 12v was 700w, the amp stepped things up at 14.4v when the vehicle was running, by way of a loosely regulated supply. Where a fully regulated supply say in a Precision power amp provided the same output regardless of input, 12 - 14.4v.  So for these tests there should be little saturation to worry about.

What was genius about sounstreams ideas was that the peaks of what the amp could do, with very good quality, were well beyond the 1kw level while still maintaining a rated rms spec when it came to IASCA standards. They took advantage of the fact that music is generally peaky rather than a constant rms signal. Any how i just wanted to go for the best I got to get the best I can get, what ever that is. lol

Im going to wind the primary and sec with 30awg of how ever many turns it will take to be around 4ohm each. Ill be using a car amp to power the primary.

The hall sensor is from a current sense circuit from a heavy duty wheel chair motor controller. Analog of course. Will post the part number when I read it. It is embedded in a small toroid core. So I have to remove it from the core first.  I have some of those in some projects but I dont want to take those apart for this. Some of the controllers used different pat no. and I get tossed a few of these controllers from my shop landlord as he works with electric wheel chair repair and handicap vehicle equip. Going for low freq of probably 100hz which the hall shouldnt have an issue with.

Will be using my phone with a sig gen app as a signal.  Good enough for these tests.



Should have things together in a couple days.

Mags

[tinman]

Just about every thinking person that plays with homopolar motor / generators eventually gets around to the idea of eliminating the brushes, since they are usually a large loss in these low voltage very high current machines. They usually consider mercury slip rings at this point, such as the large impulse energy machines developed by the US Navy Research or the much smaller machines by DePalma.

Then comes the idea they can have the external circuit rotate with the magnets and still work as a generator or motor.

The external circuit must have a different frame of reference than the rotation of the magnets, either a fixed frame of reference, or moving at some other speed or even counter-rotating relative to the magnets for an EMF to be developed.

If V2 were possible it would usher in a new era of dragless generators and motors that would produce torque in free air with nothing to push against. Clearly this has never been demonstrated in these machines, although tried by many.

Regards
Vortex1

Poynt seems to believe the the Led will still conduct (light) even if it is rotating with the disc, and you believe that there needs to be a difference in motion/time for the LED to conduct Vortex?

If poynt is right, then what could cause a ! Back torque! (as some call it) on the prime mover.