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Overunity Machines Forum



Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy

Started by EMJunkie, January 16, 2015, 12:08:38 AM

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Dog-One


EMJunkie

Quote from: MileHigh on October 21, 2015, 11:56:18 PM
Well, it's brain snack time.  No brains like frying eggs on a hot skillet permitted, it's brain snack time.

http://www.tutelman.com/golf/measure/precision.php

Precision, Accuracy, and Resolution
Dave Tutelman  --  December 23, 2007

Too many people use the terms "precision" and "accuracy" interchangeably. They shouldn't. Precision and accuracy are completely different concepts. Let's explore what they really mean, and how to tell the difference. While we're at it, we will also throw in "resolution", which is also too-often confused with precision.

This article first distinguishes between resolution and precision, then between precision and accuracy. In each case, we will start with an example chosen to make the point clear, then take one or two examples from clubmaking measurement to show why it's important to clubmakers.

Precision vs Resolution
First the definitions:

    Resolution is the fineness to which an instrument can be read.
    Precision is the fineness to which an instrument can be read repeatably and reliably.

There is a difference. Let's see it with an example.

Here are two stopwatches. One is analog and the other is digital. Both are manually actuated; this is an important point in the distinction.

First, let's look at the resolution of the two stopwatches:

The analog stopwatch has to be viewed on its dial. If you look closely, you can relate the big hand to the smallest tick-mark on the big dial. That tickmark is a tenth of a second. The best a good eye can do is resolve a reading to 1/10 second, which is therefore the resolution of the stopwatch.

The digital stopwatch has two digits beyond the seconds, so it subdivides time in hundredths of a second. Since it is easy to read to 1/100 of a second, that is its resolution.

So there is a substantial difference between the watches in resolution -- a power of ten, from 1/10 to 1/100 second.

What about the precision? Precision is reliable, repeatable measurement. The total measurement system includes the human that activates the watch in either case. And experiments have shown that a human takes about 1/10 of a second to react to a stimulus and turn it into a button press. So...

The analog stopwatch has a precision of about 1/10 second. Both the resolution and the stimulus-response time of the human are 1/10 second.

The digital stopwatch also has a precision of 1/10 of a second. This is a surprise! After all, the watch has a resolution of 1/100 second. But, because of the human reaction time, the hundredths digit is not reliable. If you measured precisely-known elapsed times with this arrangement, you would find the last digit's value to be almost random. There is a spread of about 1/10 of a second in the measured times due to the human factor. So it is repeatable to only 1/10 second.

This raises an important point. The advent of digital instrumentation gave rise to a mindset that equated resolution with precision. Digital readouts make it very easy to see what the resolution of an instrument was. Most people simply assume, "Hey, the guys who designed this made it to read to five digits, so it must be good to five digits!" Whatever "good" means. Resolution? Yes. Precision? Well, maybe.

A satiated brain is not an angry brain.  It's an old Rasta saying.



MileHigh, a very nice and thorough investigation of the limitations of the common Stopwatch and the Humanistic Delays of timing!

However, I see this as a very poor excuse for limiting the places of a Decimal Point, I am sorry, but I do!

Quote from: MileHigh on October 21, 2015, 09:39:07 AM

... therefore the second digit past the decimal point is meaningless garbage data.


An Oscilloscope is one of the most accurate machines we as Humans have ever created, its functions are mostly automated, EG: the Pressing of the Button in the case of a Stopwatch, Triggering and so on.

Also, Ohms Law has no set Decimal Place's that I know of, EG 1.346 Volts across a 0.005 Ohm Resistor: 269.2 Watts

Now if I turn around and say I want 2 decimal places, 1.35 Volts across a 0.00 Ohm Resistor: "Cannot divide by zero" Watts, or if we choose to round: 1.35 Volts across a 0.01 Ohm Resistor: 135 Watts - Gee whiz we lost: 134.2 Watts just by Rounding this to the closest Decimal Point!!!

This is just one example why the Decimal Point argument is just silly! Why argue it? You would simply just convert it in real life examples to 5mOhms anyway, which would have to be converted back to 0.005 Ohms to make the correct Calculation anyway!!!

E/R = I

Where:
E is Volts
R is Ohms
I is Amps

Unless you specify otherwise.

This, like I have already pointed out in my previous post!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

0.005 Ohm Through Hole Current Sense Resistor

0.001 Ohm SMD Current Sense Resistors

nelsonrochaa

Quote from: EMJunkie on October 22, 2015, 12:59:27 AM


MileHigh, a very nice and thorough investigation of the limitations of the common Stopwatch and the Humanistic Delays of timing!

However, I see this as a very poor excuse for limiting the places of a Decimal Point, I am sorry, but I do!

An Oscilloscope is one of the most accurate machines we as Humans have ever created, its functions are mostly automated, EG: the Pressing of the Button in the case of a Stopwatch, Triggering and so on.

Also, Ohms Law has no set Decimal Place's that I know of, EG 1.346 Volts across a 0.005 Ohm Resistor: 269.2 Watts

Now if I turn around and say I want 2 decimal places, 1.35 Volts across a 0.00 Ohm Resistor: "Cannot divide by zero" Watts, or if we choose to round: 1.35 Volts across a 0.01 Ohm Resistor: 135 Watts - Gee whiz we lost: 134.2 Watts just by Rounding this to the closest Decimal Point!!!

This is just one example why the Decimal Point argument is just silly! Why argue it? You would simply just convert it in real life examples to 5mOhms anyway, which would have to be converted back to 0.005 Ohms to make the correct Calculation anyway!!!

E/R = I

Where:
E is Volts
R is Ohms
I is Amps

Unless you specify otherwise.

This, like I have already pointed out in my previous post!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

0.005 Ohm Through Hole Current Sense Resistor

0.001 Ohm SMD Current Sense Resistors

Just talking about beans ...  A decimal point lol seems  it will make a lot of the diference .😂

tishatang

Hi Luc

In regards to your magnetic wheel experiments:

I remember many years ago reading that if you place a ball bearing on the leading edge of the magnet, it will go thru the gate easier??  I am thinking with your setup, this should be easy to check if you have any ball bearings handy?   Hope this helps.

regards
Chris

picowatt

Quote from: EMJunkie on October 22, 2015, 12:59:27 AM
MileHigh, a very nice and thorough investigation of the limitations of the common Stopwatch and the Humanistic Delays of timing!

However, I see this as a very poor excuse for limiting the places of a Decimal Point, I am sorry, but I do!

Consider the measurement of an AC voltage with a DMM indicating 1.48 volts.
Also consider the following accuracy spec for that DMM:

AC Voltage: (2V,20V,200V) ± (0.8%rdg+3dgt),750V(1.2% rdg+3dgt)

Now, work out the range of possible values that measurement indicates.

A displayed value of 1.48 VAC indicates that the measured voltage is actually any value between 1.43 to 1.52 volts.  Because of this, little weight can be given to that last digit.

Even adding an additional digit to the meter while keeping the accuracy specs the same would only result in reducing the possible range of the measured voltage to between 1.465 and 1.494 volts.

Also note that many DMM specs typically incorporate the instrument's frequency response into the AC measurement specs that must also be given consideration.


Quote
An Oscilloscope is one of the most accurate machines we as Humans have ever created, its functions are mostly automated, EG: the Pressing of the Button in the case of a Stopwatch, Triggering and so on.

I do not consider 8 bit digital scopes all that accurate.  Just as there are DMM's available with increased resolution and accuracy, there are digital scopes available with greater resolution and accuracy as well.  As far as automated functions go, they typically have nothing to do with accuracy and are more so merely a convenience, just as a cruise control and electric windows offer little in the way of performance to a car.

Quote

Also, Ohms Law has no set Decimal Place's that I know of, EG 1.346 Volts across a 0.005 Ohm Resistor: 269.2 Watts

Actually, 269.2 amps and 362.3 watts...

Its not the math that is the problem (when properly applied), it is about the accuracy of the numbers acquired and plugged into that math.  Possibly you utilized a 6 digit meter of known calibration and its 4 wire resistance measurement mode to determine with a good degree of confidence that you actually have exactly 1.436 volts and a .005 ohm resistor.  Otherwise, as they say, its garbage in garbage out.  All measuring instruments provide measured values as a range of values determined by its resolution and the accuracy specs provided.  Any calculations made using those measured values must also result in a range of calculated values that reflects the extremes of all measured values.

PW