Rosch taking orders on OU Bouyancy device.

[minnie]

   Far from people getting murdered as a way of suppressing free energy devices
my idea is that "if ever" a free energy machine was invented I can see murder
being done to get hold of it.
     If James Kwok's thingy had worked it would have taken off like a rocket, it
hasn't even mustered the impact of a damp squib.
    Basic scientific "laws" are robust and have to be respected, anomalies do occur
but need to be well authenticated and none so far seem to have given us much.
    I just see the future of renewables very exciting and I'm disappointed in the
realisation that my life is almost over, I'd love to be involved.
    Speed is needed to get useful output and the acceleration due to gravity is
poor when related to energy, try whirling a hex nut on a bit of string vertically
and you'll realise you're soon beating gravity. Most generators run about 3,000rpm.
so do a comparison-not good!!!
                John.

[tinman]

Yes 6.38 should have been 6.35. Halving pressure will double volume.

I see here that the device you seem to be describing is similar to an OTEC generator of which a few exist in Hawaii I believe.

There is nothing to stop you utilising buoyancy to take advantage of the temperature gradient in the ocean to generate energy. However due to the small difference in temperature overall efficiency is low. Unless pumping losses are low it will not function.

The solution is to make the device very large and make it the compressor itself rather than use small external pumps to evacuate a chamber at depth.

Well i just plotted a graph in 20 meter incroments,and using your 6.35kJ as the target. I reached 6.28kJ at a depth of .1 meters of potential energy. So im guessing i must be doing my calculations right,as that is very close to the target of 6.35kJ. I didnt account for temperature increase as depth decreases,but i dont imagine we will see kJ's of extra energy there. This graph was ploted from a depth of 200 meters below sea level,so i must concede that the presented bouyancy devices thus far are not looking good.

[MarkE]

A protractor to get a 757 to do a 330* spiral dive at 470MPH,and nail the target-->thats a good one MarkE lol. Even TK has stated that the maneuver that was supposedly carried out on the pentagon attack would be extreemly dificult even for an experianced pilot-but the box cutter boys pulled it off no problem.
Oh,and by the way,we dont have kool aid here in OZ-we deal in facts-unlike your self.

 
You have completely lost the plot MarkE. Your fire scenario is absolute junk-can never happen. Im sorry,but office furniture cant burn hot enough to turn steel to molten metal-like seen flowing out of the window's,and dug up from the rubble weeks later still molten hot.

You have failed to provide a picture(just 1) of another steel framed highrise building that has collapsed from fire-i have provided many that have not-even after days of burning.
In fact,you have failed to deliver on any credible evidence that supports your theories.

I am done debating this with you any further,as you are simply blind to the fact's that may upset the ballance of your perfect little world.

Now,if you would care to get back on topic,i have posted a question on the energy(in joules) required to fill a 1 ltr volume vessel to a pressure of 290psi gauge pressure. This IS in relation to this topic,and i believe this is something you can get right.

LOL, you've joined in with a bunch of nutters and become one yourself.    You like to tell yourself that you are objectively evaluating data, but make it obvious that you have started with conclusions and filtered data going backwards.  Case in point:  You assert that the NIST report is a pack of lies.  You offer as your evidence:

1) Claim that the aircraft could not fly at the speeds estimated by NIST. 
2) Claim that the planes could not have been aimed at and hit their targets by the hijackers.
3) Claims of "nano thermite"  iron oxide and light metal, IE aluminum
4) Claim that the damage done by the planes and the ensuing fires could not have caused the structures to fail, in particular because the fires were not hot enough
5) Claim that Flight 77 could not have executed the descending turn reported by ground monitoring.



1) Has been completely destroyed as BS.  Ergo it's the people who filled your head with that crap who are full of shit and not the engineers and scientists at NIST.  BTW, NIST has within its ranks top caliber engineers and scientists.

2) Prominent objects that are visible for miles are used as navigation aids.  Line up on the object and keep focused on the object and a very precise heading can be set.  That's how pilots line up on these prominent objects called runways.  It is another nutter idea that an ordinary person cannot be taught to focus on an object in the distance and point themselves at it.  Here again the nutters discredit themselves and do not discredit NIST.

3) Nano thermite was used to perform controlled demolition of the building: This one is just stupid.  Of course aluminum and iron are going to be found at the site of a: steel framed, aluminum facaded building, impacted by ~80 tons of aircraft aluminum.   Thermite deflagrates slowly.  Controlled demolitions are performed by precisely timed detonations.  The nano thermite idea is about as far out as someone discovering a can of tuna fish and declaring that space dolphins brought the towers down as an act of revenge.  The NIST report if you actually read it, thoroughly describes the expansion by heat, weakening by heat, and ultimate failure of the floor supports that set off the chain reaction collapse.

4) That the damage and heat of the fires was not enough to bring down those steel framed buildings.  A subclaim is that steel doesn't weaken at the temperatures of office fires.  This is one that really takes the nutter cake.  The whole reason that vermiculite fire proofing is applied to the steel in buildings is to slow down the transfer of heat from fire gasses to structural members.  The peak gas temperature of adiabatic flames for: paper, plastic, butane, propane, methane, and petrol are all very close in the 1850C to 1950C range. Unusual substances like nitro-methane burn much hotter.  In real fires the conditions are not adiabatic.  Gas temperature drops to between 1000C and 1200C.  At 800C the strength of structural steel falls to 10% of its room temperature strength.  A good example of what that means is the Highway 80 overpass collapse caused by a burning petrol tanker in Oakland CA in 2002.  An overpass designed to withstand a major earthquake collapsed because the steel reinforcement weakened from the heat of the tanker burning more than 30 feet below. 

NIST showed how at the onset of the collapse WTC1 and WTC2 opened like zippers.  The floor supports failed and that caused the chain reaction pancake collapse.  The nutter siren cry of "No steel framed building failed from fire alone prior to 9/11" ignores the 1000' elephant in the room that the WTC1 and WTC2 both had nearly half a million pounds crash into them at over 500 miles per hour then burned and then collapsed.  Nutters see what they want:  Dustifying space beams, horizontal plumes of smoke from one building as plumes of smoke reaching into space from another, or steel and aluminum as evidence hordes of suicidal munchkin welders cut the buildings apart to destroy them.

5) The flight path of flight 77 being impossible for the supposed hijackers to execute.  First, this has nothing to do with the NIST reports on the WTC.  It has only to do with the idea that 9/11 was some sort of acted out false flag operation.  The nutters attacks on NIST 1) - 4) above fail.  Ergo despite what the population of Nutterville scream and shout, NIST was not in on some grand conspiracy.  The NIST report is the product of many professional engineers and scientists objectively evaluating the physical evidence of the damage and failures of WTC structures on 9/11.

Back to lining up on a prominent object:  The freaking Washington monument is on a direct line behind the side of the Pentagon that was hit:  http://www.911myths.com/assets/image/Monument.jpg.  If you are not so filled with the poisonous Kool-Aid that you have capacity to read an actual expert opinion on Flight 77, then go here:  http://www.911myths.com/Another_Expert.pdf. 

In the end the assertion that the NIST report is some sort of cooked up hatchet job is refuted crap.  The claims that Flight 77 maneuvers were impossible is also discredited crap.  So, what we are left with is that Nutterville has consumed all the ergot blighted rye they can eat and is busy looking for witches to burn.

[MarkE]

...
I do my own thing,and my own reserch,and as it stands now,all the evidence supports the hidro+ unit.

LOL.  Do better research.

[tinman]

1) Claim that the aircraft could not fly at the speeds estimated by NIST.
Has been completely destroyed as BS.  Ergo it's the people who filled your head with that crap who are full of shit and not the engineers and scientists at NIST.  BTW, NIST has within its ranks top caliber engineers and scientists.

NoMark,it hasnt,and you have provided no proof at all that the planes could exceed there Vmo by such a great margin-->fact 1

2) Claim that the planes could not have been aimed at and hit their targets by the hijackers.
Prominent objects that are visible for miles are used as navigation aids.  Line up on the object and keep focused on the object and a very precise heading can be set.  That's how pilots line up on these prominent objects called runways.  It is another nutter idea that an ordinary person cannot be taught to focus on an object in the distance and point themselves at it.  Here again the nutters discredit themselves and do not discredit NIST.

No Mark. How is it you have lined up on an object and keep a very precise heading when you have to make a 330* spiral dive at 470MPH. That target was not lined up at all--Fact 2.

3) Claims of "nano thermite"  iron oxide and light metal, IE aluminum
Nano thermite was used to perform controlled demolition of the building: This one is just stupid.  Of course aluminum and iron are going to be found at the site of a: steel framed, aluminum facaded building, impacted by ~80 tons of aircraft aluminum is going to have iron and aluminum in the wreckage.   Thermite deflagrates slowly.  Controlled demolitions are performed by precisely timed detonations.  The nano thermite idea is about as far out as someone discovering a can of tuna fish and declaring that space dolphins brought the towers down as an act of revenge.  The NIST report if you actually read it, thoroughly describes the expansion by heat, weakening by heat, and ultimate failure of the floor supports that set off the chain reaction collapse.

1-you have failed to provide an example of any other steel framed building that has totally collapsed due to fire-->
2-Most of the jet fuel burned up within a few seconds of impact-this can be seen clearly on video footage-->fact.
3-Building 7 was not hit by a plane--Fact
4-Building 7 never suffered enough damage to totally collaps in on it self at free fall speed-Fact
5-An office furniture fire that is oxygen starved will never get hot enough to turn any steel into molten metal that flows out of windows--Fact.
6- NIST is controlled by the government,and no test were carried out for explosive residue's. The NIST is one of the most unreliable groups to put forth any type of report. They are your only evidence provider--Fact.

4) Claim that the damage done by the planes and the ensuing fires could not have caused the structures to fail, in particular because the fires were not hot enough
That the damage and heat of the fires was not enough to bring down those steel framed buildings.  A subclaim is that steel doesn't weaken at the temperatures of office fires.  This is one that really takes the nutter cake.  The whole reason that vermiculite fire proofing is applied to the steel in buildings is to slow down the transfer of heat from fire gasses to structural members.  The peak gas temperature of adiabatic flames for: paper, plastic, butane, propane, methane, and petrol are all very close in the 1850C to 1950C range. Unusual substances like nitro-methane burn much hotter.  In real fires the conditions are not adiabatic.  Gas temperature drops to between 1000C and 1200C.  At 800C the strength of structural steel falls to 10% of its room temperature strength.  A good example of what that means is the Highway 80 overpass collapse caused by a burning petrol tanker in Oakland CA in 2002.  An overpass designed to withstand a major earthquake collapsed because the steel reinforcement weakened from the heat of the tanker burning more than 30 feet below.

And i maintain that,and i am the only one of us that has provided any proof that supports that. You have been unable to provide a single example of another highrise building that has collapsed due to fire. The reason for this is because they simply dont. There have been fires far hotter than any of the fires in the WTC buildings that have burnt for twice as long,and still they didnt collaps-because they just dont--Fact
As far as your overpass go's,you obviously do not know the difference between a reinforced concrete single story structure,and a steel framed highrise building--Fact

5) Claim that Flight 77 could not have executed the descending turn reported by ground monitoring.
The flight path of flight 77 being impossible for the supposed hijackers to execute.  First, this has nothing to do with the NIST reports on the WTC.  It has only to do with the idea that 9/11 was some sort of acted out false flag operation.  The nutters attacks on NIST 1) - 4) above fail.  Ergo despite what the population of Nutterville scream and shout, NIST was not in on some grand conspiracy.  The NIST report is the product of many professional engineers and scientists objectively evaluating the physical evidence of the damage and failures of WTC structures on 9/11.

Find just one experienced pilot that could make this maneuver in a 757-just one. Many have tried in sim's,and to date not one has succeeded. You may also like to take this up with TK-an experienced pilot. My guess is that you wont,as you only argue with those you think you can beat-but you didnt fair to well on my cool joule circuit opperation--Fact.
There are far greater and more experienced engineers,scientist,explosive,and demolition experts that say the NIST report is rubbish--Fact.

NIST showed how at the onset of the collapse WTC1 and WTC2 opened like zippers.  The floor supports failed and that caused the chain reaction pancake collapse.

And you say you know physics. If it was any other topic you'd be argueing the point against this.A building that pancakes dose not drop at free fall speed. Every floor the one above hit's when dropping meets resistance--you know,equal and opposite reactions. So the collaps speed would have been a lot slower if it was just a pancake collaps,as each floor met resistance of the floor below. As can be clearly seen in so many video's,there were explosions 6 to 7 floors bellow the last impacted floor as the building collapsed. The only way to bring a building down that fast is to remove or weaken the floors below before the one above hit it--Facts.

The nutter siren cry of "No steel framed building failed from fire alone prior to 9/11 ignores the 1000' elephant in the room that the WTC1 and WTC2 both had nearly half a million pounds crash into them at over 500 miles per hour then burned and then collapsed.

As i stated before,the bulk of the jet fuel was burned up on impact--Fact
The WTC buildings were designed to withstand the impact and ensueing fires of a 707 jet liner-one of the largest at the time. The 707 was capable of higher speeds that the 767,and also could deliver a far higher energy impact than the 767-Facts.

Nutters see what they want:  Dustifying space beams, horizontal plumes of smoke from one building as plumes of smoke reaching into space from another, or steel and aluminum as evidence munchkin welders cut the buildings apart to destroy them.

No. I see metal that was heated to temperatures that extreem by oxygen starved fires with office furniture as fuel,that it was turned into molten steel that ran out of the windows,and remained red hot for weeks under ground.
I see no concrete left at ground zero,as most of it has turned to dust. Never in the history of demolition has concrete been totally dustifyed. Show me a picture of a demolition site where thousands of tones of concrete just turned to dust.
Traces of nano thermite(with the rest of the ingredients needed) where found in the (what use to be concrete)dust for blocks away from the towers,along with micro beads.

Everything i have posted are facts Mark(bar the incorrect top speed of 220MPH),and all you have to offer is the NIST report-->kindly bought to you by the government.

What we need from you is credible evidence MarkE,not some cooked up report that is designed to mislead.

1-A link to another highrise building that has collapsed due to fire.
2- A valid reason why all the evidence was shipped of so fast,and a crime seen wasnt astablished around the site,and investigations carried out in the manner they are with every other such incident of this nature,and far less. E.G-if a plane crashes in the ocean,they spend millions on retrieving that plane,and put it back together piece by piece,and dont stop until they have every answer they need to solve the incident
3- A pilot that has or thinks it quite easy/possable to pull of the maneuver that was performed by a bloke that couldnt even get his cessna licence.
4-A link or picture of another building collaps where there is such a small amount of concrete left-also mostly turned to dust.
5- An answer as to how the buildings you say pancake collapsed managed to fall at free fall speed-even though there should have been resistance due to ambiant air.
6- A data sheet or an admision by boeing that the 757 and 767 can fly at speeds far above there Vmo limit 700 feet above sea level-->757 470MPH-while doing a 330* spiral dive.767-500,and 580MPH.
7- Recreate a fire with office furniture(on a small scale of course),and show us how it can gain enough heat to melt(lets say just a 1/2" mild steel rod)to liquid steel-->throw on some jet fuel if you wish to get things cranking. My bet is you wont even get it to glow a dull red--Fact.