Sharing ideas on how to make a more efficent motor using Flyback (MODERATED)

[gotoluc]

would anyone here be willing to post a summary , even two sentences, on what  is going on with this bucking motor? For newbies who don't understand this clearly (like me) Please forgive my ignorance , seriously, I dont' want to take away anything from what you have all worked so hard to learn and achieve, by my coming here and not understanding this.
I have read through the thread and tried to take as much in as I can understand with my limited (0) knowledge of electricity and electronics. I gather that these microwave transformers are somehow capturing and storing previously wasted power in an innovative new way,  and the task at hand is now to find ways to use it to propel the rotor in an innovative new way.

If so it is a promising new development, hoping to understand a bit more via plain English
about what is going on, and the potential applications for this, potential ways to achieve this, etc.

The best Electric motor can be up to 95% efficient. The established Science says it can never be 100% efficient since a motor, transformer or other electromagnetic device have a counter reactive force which build up (Lenz law) that opposes the initial action (input power). Call it action - reaction if you wish.

A very small number of us here at this forum do actual experiments to see if we can find a combination that may negate this counter opposing force.
It is well known in Science that when two poles (N_N or S-S) of the same polarity (aka bucking magnetic field) come together this counter opposing force is not present.  However, in this situation the established Science says no useful work can be achieved from such an arrangement.

My motor design is an attempt to see if this is correct or not.
The use of microwave oven transformer (MOT) is not because they are special in any way. They are used for convenience as they are easy to open and offer you the two extremes in coils. One of heavy wire which can take current and one with fine wire which can make a strong magnetic field with high voltage. Each have their own use.

There is something else that I'm trying to use to assist a motor known as Inductive kickback (aka flyback).
This is the reverse effect of what happens to a coil when you cut off (switch off) the power (input current)
Even though your coil input had much current, everything changes when the coil is switched off... the counter effect is it kicks back a super fast and super high voltage spike.
So coils are interesting creatures, they have the ability to transform high current to high voltage. It is this fast high voltage I'm also trying to use to assist the motor.
Here is how... DC motors are switched on and off and have been designed to cancel this flyback spike from the motor coils since it causes many issues, mainly arcing of the switch contacts. So motor designers have been taught to just short out this flyback spike and problem solved.
I'm proposing to use this flyback and send it to a coil which would be more suited to use this high voltage, hence the fine wire high voltage coil.
By placing this flyback coil at the appropriate position (timing) in the motor I believe it could further assist the motor at no cost to the input. So if a motor can be made to be up to 95% efficient without using flyback, we only need it to make up for a 5% additional assistance and now we have cacaos in the established Science
Keep in mind I'm not just looking to use flyback to assist a motor but to also use bucking fields. So my motor design would be considered quite controversial to Science as I'm proposing to use two things they say cannot do work.

Hope this helps explain it in a simple way?

Luc

[verpies]

DC motors are switched on and off and have been designed to cancel this flyback spike from the motor coils since it causes many issues, mainly arcing of the switch contacts. So motor designers have been taught to just short out this flyback spike and problem solved.

I'm proposing to use this flyback and send it to a coil which would be more suited to use this high voltage, hence the fine wire high voltage coil.

This "spike" represents the remaining energy, which is still stored in the motor winding.  Wasting it, indeed is a waste.
Why not send this energy into a capacitor ?

Capacitors can hold this recovered energy efficiently and almost indefinitely, unlike most inductors, which continually suffer I²R losses.

More here

[shylo]

Hi Luc, You said;

"There is something else that I'm trying to use to assist a motor known as Inductive kickback (aka flyback).
This is the reverse effect of what happens to a coil when you cut off (switch off) the power (input current)
Even though your coil input had much current, everything changes when the coil is switched off... the counter effect is it kicks back a super fast and super high voltage spike"

I have seen the spike also by shorting the coil ends together but when being used as a generating coil.
Have you seen this or am I off track?
If you use blocking diodes at the coil leads with capacitors you automatically catch the spike and it is now stored power you can use.
artv

[Jimboot]

Hi Luc, You said;

"There is something else that I'm trying to use to assist a motor known as Inductive kickback (aka flyback).
This is the reverse effect of what happens to a coil when you cut off (switch off) the power (input current)
Even though your coil input had much current, everything changes when the coil is switched off... the counter effect is it kicks back a super fast and super high voltage spike"

I have seen the spike also by shorting the coil ends together but when being used as a generating coil.
Have you seen this or am I off track?
If you use blocking diodes at the coil leads with capacitors you automatically catch the spike and it is now stored power you can use.
artv

I actually used that config and added a load via an inaccurate sparkgap and saw some very interesting things. Still utilising the flyback in a more direct way though. Probably wont be able to film until Thursdy

[gotoluc]

This "spike" represents the remaining energy, which is still stored in the motor winding.  Wasting it, indeed is a waste.
Why not send this energy into a capacitor ?

Capacitors can hold this recovered energy efficiently and almost indefinitely, unlike most inductors, which continually suffer I²R losses.

More here

Hi verpies,

thanks for your post and suggestion. I am trying to avoid storing in capacitors as from what I understand this would represent a conversion loss. Let me explain.

Please correct me if I am wrong but the way I see and understand it is,  a coil (inductor) is truly a voltage device but current is needed to create a magnetic field.  Capacitors are the opposite, they are current devices and are not known to create a magnetic field.
So if you want to make a motor  you first have to start supplying current in your coil to build a strong magnetic field for the motor to do work.  Then once the current is switched off the coil does something rather interesting as we all have observed, it naturally converted the current to a very fast and high voltage spike.  That to me is telling us something.
Now if you try to capture that fast high voltage spike in a capacitor, will there not be a fight (delay) = heat losses?  as capacitors don't accept fast high voltage spikes, so why try to do this, is it not a waste?  why not send it to another coil which would perfectly accept this high voltage spike without any fight (losses) other then the coils wire resistance. The idea here is, the flyback is only a portion of the power we first imputed to the coil. Let's say we can get 50% of the power back from the flyback and we chose to send it to another coil which has double the inductance of the the first coil and this coil is strategically placed in the motor to further assist the rotor. Do you not think this would be a more efficient way to use flyback then to try to store it in a capacitor or a battery?

If you disagree please post your argument (in plain English) as to why you believe it not to be so.

Thanks for sharing

Luc