TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"

[tinman]

Very good! Unfortunately though, no carbon loss = no gas. The H2 : CO volume ratio is always 1:1.   You may be able to thermally decompose a little water, but its a very lossy method.

But what happens when you account for all energy output from the system?--
1-the energy in the gas being produced
2-the energy required to raise the temperature of a volume of water
3-the light output from the system.


Brad

[pomodoro]

Normal electolysis requires about 240kJ/mole from your electrical supply minimum.
Reacting carbon with water requires only 131kJ/mole. The difference is not free, its from the reaction C+0.5O₂-->CO which gives 110kJ/mole.
Because you have a very high temp arc, more heat is wasted than in normal electrolysis due to the heat transfer between the water at 100C and the arc at 1000+ C, so you will get boiling.

When you burn the gas you get the same heat from the hydrogen as you would with HHO plus additional whopping 283kJ/mole from CO+0.5O₂ ---->CO₂

Overall you used electrically 131kJ+heat&boil water  but you get back 240kJ from burning hydrogen and 283kj from burning CO.

So yes, there is a gain but its at the expense of the carbon. 

Beware , according to wikipedia one breath only of just 3% CO can kill !   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide_poisoning#Acute_poisoning

[tinman]

Normal electolysis requires about 240kJ/mole from your electrical supply minimum.
Reacting carbon with water requires only 131kJ/mole. The difference is not free, its from the reaction C+0.5O₂-->CO which gives 110kJ/mole.
Because you have a very high temp arc, more heat is wasted than in normal electrolysis due to the heat transfer between the water at 100C and the arc at 1000+ C, so you will get boiling.

When you burn the gas you get the same heat from the hydrogen as you would with HHO plus additional whopping 283kJ/mole from CO+0.5O₂ ---->CO₂

Overall you used electrically 131kJ+heat&boil water  but you get back 240kJ from burning hydrogen and 283kj from burning CO.

 

Beware , according to wikipedia one breath only of just 3% CO can kill !   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide_poisoning#Acute_poisoning

So yes, there is a gain but its at the expense of the carbon.

I think there is more to it than just carbon loss.
There is much talk of an LENR event happening within this type of system.

[tinman]

Normal electolysis requires about 240kJ/mole from your electrical supply minimum.
Reacting carbon with water requires only 131kJ/mole. The difference is not free, its from the reaction C+0.5O₂-->CO which gives 110kJ/mole.
Because you have a very high temp arc, more heat is wasted than in normal electrolysis due to the heat transfer between the water at 100C and the arc at 1000+ C, so you will get boiling.

When you burn the gas you get the same heat from the hydrogen as you would with HHO plus additional whopping 283kJ/mole from CO+0.5O₂ ---->CO₂

Overall you used electrically 131kJ+heat&boil water  but you get back 240kJ from burning hydrogen and 283kj from burning CO.

So yes, there is a gain but its at the expense of the carbon. 

Beware , according to wikipedia one breath only of just 3% CO can kill !   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide_poisoning#Acute_poisoning

Pomodoro

What is the energy value of say 100 grams of carbon-the type that is used in carbon rods such as gouging rods.

With this type of info,we can calculate just how much energy the carbon rods contribute to the calculated energy output.


Brad

[pomodoro]

The actual production of H2 +CO from water produces no heat at all!  Being endothermic it sucks heat out of the arc. Every 12g of pure C requires 131kJ. Unfortunately it is not a spontaneous reaction at room temp and requires a high temperature to work. The heating and boiling of the water is pure waste from the arc power supply only.  Accurate measurements are difficult, but if you insulate the container extremely well  and use heaps of water to prevent boiling , you can calculate heat into the water from the specific heat of water ,the volume and the temp rise. Say this easy to calculate amount is is XkJ.
Then measure the mass of carbon used up,that has actually dissapeared, not just crumbled and floated around.Since each 12g was 131kJ from the electrical power, you can calculate that energy call this YkJ (note carbon rods have clay mixed in, so there are errors already). Add X+Y to get the heat out of the arc.  Calculate or measure  accurate  electrical Joules in from transformer, call this Z and if you find that X+Y is much greater than Z then you might have something worth investigating LENR etc.  I say much greater because there are bound to be big error because you are not in a lab environment with well calibrated instruments , there is also heat lost to the gas and the graphite purity is unknown. The arc is intermittant so in reality an integrating power measurement device is required.  An alternative is to measure the volume of gas , its temperature and atmospheric pressure and relate that back to the amount of carbon actually burned.  When I tried LENR with tungsten, I used DC as it was easy to measure the well filtered voltage on a large capacitor . The current was a bit crazy, but a simple filter from the current shunt with an RC constant into the seconds smoothed this well, but it wont work at all with AC. Kept temp well below 100 and stirred water all throughout to stop localized boiling but I was constantly measuring temp so stirring helped .