The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....

[Magluvin]

But you are ignoring what the ignition circuit is actually doing.  From an earlier post:

<<< When inductors discharge into resistive loads, they don't resonate.  The plasma is a non-linear resistor, therefore there is no resonance.  And I know that when an inductor discharges into a plasma, essentially all of the energy stored in the inductor is drained away in one shot.  And that is fundamentally what the ignition of a spark plug is, and that's why I said there was no resonance.  >>>

"When inductors discharge into resistive loads, they don't resonate."

Well we will see in a bit.  I added a 1ohm ballast resistor in serires with the primary.


"The plasma is a non-linear resistor, therefore there is no resonance. "

Never said there was resonance operation in the secondary. I mean, is the plasma you are speaking of is in the spark from the secondary?  The resonance is in the primary with the cap in the loop when the switch opens. I have stated this repeatedly. The secondary is induced buy the oscillating primary and the secondary spark shows the effect of that.

Mags

[Magluvin]

It doesn't matter if there is LCR resonance all over the Internet.  It's fundamentally a "Bedini circuit" although putting it like that makes me cringe.  For something like the thousandth time:  You energize an inductor.  The you open the switch and we know that the inductor is a current source and come hell or high water the inductor is going to push out current and nothing can stop it.  If the inductor encounters a capacitor in its path it will push current into the capacitor until it is drained of energy and then the capacitor will output voltage and push back into the inductor and you get resonance.  If the inductor encounters a resistor of any value, it will push current into the resistor until it is drained of energy - NO RESONANCE.  If the resistor is air, then it will push current through the air and turn the air into plasma because nothing can stop the inductor from pushing current, and the inductor will push current through the air until it is drained of energy - NO RESONANCE.

That second sentence is an example of why you are banned from OUR.

ok then. If you say so.  Ive added the ballast resistor now, and lets see how well it kills off any resonance....

Ya know, you have been saying that there is no resonance for how many pages now?  Now once we bring up the ballast resistor in place, and after I say read some of the many LCR resonance links, now it is the resistor that kills the resonance that you claim wasnt there in the first place. Even with all the info on resonant LCR, you say that its all wrong because of the R in the LCR.  I dont get it.  But I get what your trying to do by saying so.    Its like a movie that could be titled 'Resonance Must Die'.



Mags

[Magluvin]

let me ask you something M..  Why the drastic changes in component values in your circuit sim screen shot?   I remade you circuit with your specs and I also redid it to the right with the actual component values we are specifically looking at in this thread.

Yours is once more as I have complained to you before that you are using padded parts values and you stopped the sim to not show the resonant ring when the switch opens. 

Mags
Mags

Here is another shot of what I posted on the last page as an update. I had seen that the time scale for the scope shots to the left and right circuits were off. So here is the pic with a longer view of the operation also.. Notice there is resonant oscillations in his padded version and my version with the correct parts values.

Why do I say you padded it? Because you want to demonstrate something, but dont want to show any resonance. By drastically changing the parts values, you are able to show a very short view in time of when the switch is closed, and some of when the switch is open.  So in my pic I lengthened the time period of operation to show that your padded version does resonate. But if you had the correct values in there, it is very hard to show a scope shot of before the switch opens and any of when the switch opens, as there would be this big oscillation that you insist does not exist, just like you see in my correct circuit to the right

The 2 scope shots on the top for each circuit is the battery, His 100v and mine 12v.  The lower shot for each is the coil, just as IM going to show in my vid.

Mh you can say that you dont pad your demo circuits to a point of not seeing what we say should be seen, but here, after I have made the claim of you padding many times before, this is 1 very perfect example. 

The real coil is about 5mh  and you chose a 500mh
The real cap is .14uf   and yours is 300uf

I dont know why you made it 100v. Nor why you made the resistor .1ohm  But the L and C are so huge, and the scope shots you show are cut off before any resonant indications could appear.........  Look at his post again folks..   There is no other reason for making such drastic changes to the component values to demonstrate operations of this circuit. None.... Its padded to the hilt to not show resonant oscillations.


I put up the code for it if anyone wants to run it on circuit sim and see if I had padded my results for the pics Ive shown..   Ive found that sometimes the saved code may or may not have the time scales correct for the scope shots. And they may come up as unstacked as I show.. Just right click on the scope shots for a menu to fix that if the issue occurs when you try the code for the setup.

To get the same results I show, click stop circuit at the upper right. Then close the switches. Hit reset at the upper right.  Let the current in the right hand circuit reach max yellow trace current, then hit stop again. Open the switches and hit stop once more to let the circuit continue, as both circuits will be opened at the exact same time when you continue the operation. Then hit stop before the beginning of the trace gets the the far right of the shot. 

Mags

[MileHigh]

The resonance is in the primary with the cap in the loop when the switch opens. I have stated this repeatedly. The secondary is induced buy the oscillating primary and the secondary spark shows the effect of that.

When it comes to an ignition circuit and what it actually does - produce a spark across a spark plug gap, it's all about the secondary and the primary is just a minor side-show.  You have to keep your eye on the ball.

The secondary is not induced by the oscillating primary.  Once the secondary is finished doing the plasma burn which I suspect represents more than 90% of the energy put into the core in the first place, only then does the primary oscillate with the capacitor, and this has nothing to do with the plasma generation.  It's just a harmless artifact of why the capacitor was put there in the first place - to protect the points.

Repeat:  The capacitor is there to protect the points, it was not put there to create a resonance with the primary to give you a more robust spark.  As I said a few times already, it looks like the main reason for the more robust spark is the capacitor prevents the arcing of the points which represents a considerable loss of energy.  I also said there is a simple test that can be done to check for this.

[Magluvin]

When it comes to an ignition circuit and what it actually does - produce a spark across a spark plug gap, it's all about the secondary and the primary is just a minor side-show.  You have to keep your eye on the ball.

The secondary is not induced by the oscillating primary.  Once the secondary is finished doing the plasma burn which I suspect represents more than 90% of the energy put into the core in the first place, only then does the primary oscillate with the capacitor, and this has nothing to do with the plasma generation.  It's just a harmless artifact of why the capacitor was put there in the first place - to protect the points.

Repeat:  The capacitor is there to protect the points, it was not put there to create a resonance with the primary to give you a more robust spark.  As I said a few times already, it looks like the main reason for the more robust spark is the capacitor prevents the arcing of the points which represents a considerable loss of energy.  I also said there is a simple test that can be done to check for this.

Just pulled the camera battery out of the charger.  Vid will be up in a bit. Just like I said, Im doing the vid today, sunday.....

Repeat this, repeat that, all you want. Ill be waiting for your reasons why the oscillations I show when the cap is in the circuit compared to not in the circuit are just artifacts or nothing to make a better stronger spark. And that will have to be the new argument you will have to make...

Remember folks, MH has insisted that there cannot be an LC, or and LCR ring in this circuit ever since before this thread started. The discussion was started in pm then came here. So lets see him explain what i show across the primary in my vid coming up here soon. 

Mags

Mags