The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....

[tinman]

The waveform images that Miles posted earlier are
very informative.

There are oscillations in the Primary Circuit during
the time that the Breaker Points are Open.  It is
possible to see that the oscillations occur at two
distinctly different frequencies:  during spark burn
time the frequency is higher than the frequency
which appears following spark burn time.

Why is this so?

Because during the spark burn,the secondary appears to have a short across it,and this lowers the inductance value of the primary,thus resulting in a higher natural resonant frequency of the primary.

When the secondary is open(no spark burn),the inductance value of the primary becomes higher,resulting in a lower natural resonant frequency.


Brad

[SeaMonkey]

Tinman,

Yes!  Correct!

During the Spark Burn Time the Secondary Winding is
"sourcing" spark current to the plug of several amperes
as the stored magnetic field dissipates.  The "load" of
the Spark Plug results in a prolonged collapse time of
the stored magnetic field as the Spark Plug current
is generated.  It all happens very quickly.

[Magluvin]

Miles has explained it correctly.  "Resonance" is not a factor in the process
of supplying High Voltage Energy to the Spark Plug by Inductive Discharge
of the Ignition Coil.

However, it is possible to construct an Electronic Ignition System which
will produce a rapid succession of sparks within a short time span in order
to improve combustion of the fuel/air mixture.  Racing Cars sometimes
employ such a system.  The Ford Model T Ignition System used Ignition
Coils with "buzzers" to produce such an effect many years ago.  The Model
T also enabled selection of Battery Ignition or Magneto by the driver at
will.  They don't make 'em today like they used to.

Firstly the 2 pics, one of the primary and one of the secondary.

One thing i notice is the lack of voltage scale to the left, only showing 0v. Nothing to show the differences in scale.

Why is the 'spark duration' period for the primary shorter that the 'spark burn time period' for the secondary? These should have been simultaneous shots yet they dont seem so.

As brad has stated, the spark is shorting out the secondary. Now was this a direct reading across the secondary or was it of a clamp style measurement of a plug wire and what type of measuring device was used? Was it a direct measurement of the plug gap? Where are the reference points of these measurements?

Why is the burn voltage level seemingly level DC voltage during the 'spark burn time period' instead of a declining voltage level till the spark ends??? Is the plug gap regulating the level of voltage across the secondary to show such?

In the very beginning of the spark burn voltage line you can see some sort of oscillation but died off very quickly early in the burn time. If the primary has such influence on the secondary to provide the sec with a spark either when the switch opens, or closes, then why would the primary oscillations of over 300v not have any affect on the sec burn time line, while the sec is loaded??  Those oscillations are in line with having voltage swings that could get the spark to happen in the first place.

If it were battery currents across the plasma, then that spark burn line must be what, 14.5v??  The 14v holds it till the spark burns out?

If that spark burn lin is 14.5v, then why is it the oscillation that occurs in both shots, just after the spark burn ends, not showing a 100:1 ratio between the primary and the secondary shots?

Its all screwed up.

Something is a miss here.   Lets just say the plasma battery spark were to be.. If the battery is not in phase with the initial spark currents it wouldnt happen then. And if it was only when the sec currents after the first initial spark pulled a reversal by way of the cap, then the spark happened in the other direction to get the plasma battery spark, then why not just make the coil with the polarity of the secondary reversed so the initial spark could carry these plasma battery currents instead of first bouncing off of a 600v cap with 1440v???  Them caps would be a gold mine in the service dept.  With that in mind, why not just skip the cap and reverse the polarity of the sec internally, just close the switch to get a spark that seems to be the same as when the switch opens, and you get the battery plasma effect?  Why the cap at all in that proccess??

Why is there plenty of voltage in the primary oscillations to produce the spark I say is there?  On that note, Im going to put together the Tesla igniter circuit using this relay setup.  Large inductor, battery and cap all in one loop. And the relay discharging the cap into the primary directly, no battery in that loop..

I will try several of my larger inductors to get the best match for similar results as for timing as was done in my last vid...  Will the cap and primary oscillate and produce similar sparks like in my previous vids? Will there be a similar ring down between the cap and primary as we have seen in those vids? Look at my vid from 7yrs ago that I posted yesterday. 250v and a great spark..  That was not set up for primary oscillations like the igniter pat circuit will as the Sidace stops the primary current when the current falls to a minimum.

Well Im putting it together now.  This should put this thing to rest once and for all..

The ign system we have been covering has been designed to look very simple. And being sooo simple looking, there are many versions of what others think is going on by what the books, internet links, say is simply going on. And from one source to the next, its like a different book altogether, from seemingly reputable sources....

Mags

[Magluvin]

Tinman,

Yes!  Correct!

During the Spark Burn Time the Secondary Winding is
"sourcing" spark current to the plug of several amperes
as the stored magnetic field dissipates.  The "load" of
the Spark Plug results in a prolonged collapse time of
the stored magnetic field as the Spark Plug current
is generated.  It all happens very quickly.

Ok. I get what your thinking, that the loading helps to slow down the field collapse for the time period thus a longer spark. Is that correct?  Well then why would that not happen also without the cap?  We get sparks when we release the battery current from the primary after the field build without the cap, so why isnt it a slowed collapse and long burn then, without the cap in place?  Doesnt wash.

Mags

[Magluvin]

Can someone post a comment on my vid here..  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNLUGqH4W1c

I replied to a guy that commented that the ring in the scope shot was my oscilloscope probe and I responded appropriately. The guy seems like a real strange guy, playing with what he seem to imply Kapanadzy coils and such. Was talking about picofarad caps, I suppose in the circuit all over the bench, with what seems to be a web of colored jumper wires all over the place. And he is telling me this 12.3khz oscillations is in my scope probe. Like he know about stray capacitance's and inductance's  and such. But the next day it says there is 2 comments, of which I would agree with, but it will not show the comments.. Just want to see if comments can be posted on the vid since after what Im seeing there.  I dont care if the comment from one of you says my vid sucks. lol  I just want to confirm that there is an issue there. Thanks ahead of time if one of you does this for me.

Mags