need help with wikipedia 11 September liars

[gaby de wilde]

post retracted,

shruggedatlas does not give any evidence of his claims for side by side comparison.

[chadj2]

No, of course he doesnt believe in the 9/11 conspiracy. He understands that the terrorists just coincedently played perfectly into the hands of the Oil corporations by giving the USA an excuse for invading Iraq. He also understands it was just a coincidence that they provided themselves as a new enemy to help ensure incredible profits for the Defense industry since the cold war had been over for almost a decade and defense spending was becoming harder to justify. Finally, he knows that the terrorists hit us because they hate our freedoms and coincidently the 9/11 attacks allow the Government to now routinely violate the 4th amendment "Having probable cause before you search someone" ie wiretaps and random checkpoints. The 9/11 attacks also coincidently allow the governement to violate the 6th amendment "Right to a speedy trial" ie. Jose Padilla; by simply declaring you an enemy combatant. They also violate the 5th amendment "Right against self incrimination" ie torture or shall we call it pressure to be politically correct. I know just as well as he does that this is all just coincidence. Even though the Governement allied with these powerful coorporations had the power to orchastrate the 9/11 attacks and have benefitted greatly from them, they would never do so because it would be very mean to kill that many innocent people and we all know that they wouldnt do mean things.

[shruggedatlas]

No, of course he doesnt believe in the 9/11 conspiracy. He understands that the terrorists just coincedently played perfectly into the hands of the Oil corporations by giving the USA an excuse for invading Iraq. He also understands it was just a coincidence that they provided themselves as a new enemy to help ensure incredible profits for the Defense industry since the cold war had been over for almost a decade and defense spending was becoming harder to justify. Finally, he knows that the terrorists hit us because they hate our freedoms and coincidently the 9/11 attacks allow the Government to now routinely violate the 4th amendment "Having probable cause before you search someone" ie wiretaps and random checkpoints. The 9/11 attacks also coincidently allow the governement to violate the 6th amendment "Right to a speedy trial" ie. Jose Padilla; by simply declaring you an enemy combatant. They also violate the 5th amendment "Right against self incrimination" ie torture or shall we call it pressure to be politically correct. I know just as well as he does that this is all just coincidence. Even though the Governement allied with these powerful coorporations had the power to orchastrate the 9/11 attacks and have benefitted greatly from them, they would never do so because it would be very mean to kill that many innocent people and we all know that they wouldnt do mean things.

Everything you are saying can be similarly explained by the Administration's simple decision to invade Iraq.  While it would have been harder to get this done without the 9/11 attacks, the bottom line is that the primary motivation given for the invasion was WMDs, and not the 9/11 connection, and so the invasion could have been accomplished without the plane crashes.  So why engineer the ridiculously crazy plot? 

Also, you are unnecessarily attributing the Administration's exploitation of the attacks with the causation of the attacks.  It is perfectly plausible that someone can try to exploit a bad situation, even without causing said situation.

[chadj2]

I would have differ with you on the Iraq invasion being possible without the 9/11 attacks. Saddam was linked to 9/11 in very careful and roundabout ways. I talk to ppl all the time on the topic and find many people that believe that Saddam was linked to the terrorists and had a working relationship. There is no way support for the Iraq invasion would have been that high without 9/11. On your second point all I am saying is that it is an interesting coincidence. You must admit that the Government and coorporate factions had the power to make 9/11 happen and had a tremendous gain from it. I would use the analogy of watching someone who picks the lottery numbers coincidently win the 500 million dollar jackpot. Yes, granted it could just be a incredibly lucky coincidence for the person picking the numbers and nothing more; but you must admit a lot of people probably including yourself would be raising eyebrows.

[shruggedatlas]

http://moonlanding.go-here.nl

Have you encountered a conspiracy theory you did not believe? If so, I would be curious to know what you actually recognize as bunk.  I do not believe there is a theory crazy enough for you to reject. At the risk of Godwining this thread, I must ask, are you a Holocaust denier as well?

The irony is that you use basically the same methods to justify your reasoning that the Bush administration used to invade Iraq.  They generally accepted as true all evidence that supported their position without much critical analysis and discarded evidence that contradicted their position.

A 10 minute Google search found rebuttals for every point the picture you link makes regarding the moon landing being fake.  I know they will not convince you, but to a reasonable person, they should cast serious doubt.

http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/tv/foxapollo.html

Anyway, I know there is evidence that supports your position, but given the mass of evidence to the contrary, as a rational person, all I can say is, "You may be right, but it seems highly unlikely."  The fact that you are 100% convinced of your position, and no evidence to the contrary even gives you any pause, tells me you are not a rational person.