Meyer's WFC concept analysed

[paulshroom]

Has anyone seen this?
http://www.peswiki.com/index.php/Article:Stanley_Meyer_Harmonics

[Farrah Day]

I think that the stainless steel is just fine as electrodes, as it's as 'unreactive' as we need it to be, easy to get hold of and not too expensive. I guess we would all be using titanium if it didn't cost an 'arm and a leg'.

The important thing is that SS won't itself play a chemically active part in the electrolysis, unlike other metals where electrodes can quickly decompose.  Most metals do actually oxidise to some degree after time in oxygen, but unlike the aggressive nature of rust on metals with high iron content, metals like copper, aluminium, silver, zinc and stainless steel, etc, only develop a thin oxide layer which then effectively protects the metal underneath - that tarnished look.

However, this would probably explain why some SS is better than others. I'm not sure SS is particularly difficult to oxidise, a couple of hours in a standard electrolyser configuration is likely all it takes - maybe only minutes under heavy current.  I recall someone playing with a Joe cell and talking about conditioning - but not knowing why it worked - saying that this was achieved by drawing a heavy current through the cell one way, then reversing the terminals and doing the other way. Well this would mean that both the sides of the electrodes that face each other would be oxidised, doubling the electrical capacity of the cell.

Aussepom, isn't that SS self healing effect you talk about actually oxidation - just like the way zinc self heals on a galvanized mop bucket?

There are only a couple of reasons I see to roughing up the electrodes. One is to clean any unwanted crap (grease, oil contaminants) off the surface prior to conditioning and the other is to vastly increase the surface area of the electrodes. At a microscopic level, even a light sandpaper will create enormous mountains and valleys on the electrode surface.

I can see that using dissimilar metals to take advantage of their natural electropositive or electronegative charges might help in standard electrolysis and electroplating, but I don't see a place for it in trying to replicate Meyers wfc. After all we don't want a battery, we wan't as little current flowing as possible.

Locked-in, I had a look at that patent you listed. In my opinion it's just the same old dribble as everything else he put down on paper - basically incoherent twaddle. In fact, give me an cartload of scientific patents and documents and I would be able to pick out the ones Stan had produced just by skimming through them - Stans would be the ones spouting all the technical jargon but actually saying very little and explaining even less! There's a report online somewhere by a scientist who went to see a Meyer cell in action. His comment was 'the demonstartion of Meyers working cell was far more impressive than the pseudo-technical jargon that he used to explain it', or words to that effect. And that really summed up Meyer for me. No, the circuits, though more elaborate, again do not give any detail whatsover on component values. Ask yourself, 'why would he draw the circuit out, but leave out the crucial component values?'  Better still, try to construct one.  No... really, don't waste your time there.

Farrah Day

[HeairBear]

This guy has a lot of good info...http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5124443346685900742&q=qiman13&total=11&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=4
In Stan's earlier designs before the use of the VIC, he utilized a resistive material sandwiched between two plates and a variable resistor in series after that. Think of a set of three tubes with the gap of the inner and middle tubes filled with resistive material. This may have been used before he discovered the coating or it could be that a coating will never happen if there is no current or at most, very little current.

As far as trying different electrode materials, just about anything will work as long as it wont corrode or add a lot of impurities and gunk in the water. A  durable plastic would even work. All we need to do is just get the high voltage potential around and in the plates. As easy as it sounds, at first I thought, why not use a Van DeGraph device? It doesn't work because the water acts like a ground. It basically is ground, so the charge would never hold or rise. So now we have a big leaky capacitor, that acts as ground. Until the coating shows up. Then things start to change. Why are we calling it a capacitor? It is a capacitor, not a good one but still a capacitor. It's also a resonant cavity which is the main process doing the work. Our microwave ovens use resonant cavities much in the same way,

If we can easily figure out a suitable diode then all thats left to figure out is the torroid and the chokes. That last patent I posted stated these parameters.

In th Example of a fuel cell circuit of FIG. 1, a water capacitor is included. The step-up coil is formed on a conventional torroidal core formed of a compressed ferromagnetic powdered material that will not itself become permanently magnetized, such as the trademarked "ferramic 06# "Permag" powder as described in Siemens Ferrites Catalog, CG-2000-002-121, No. F626-1205. The core is 1.5 inch in diameter and 0.25 inch in thickness. A primary coil of 200 turns of 24 gauge copper wire is provided and a coil of 600 turns of 36 gauge wire comprises the secondary winding.

In the circuit of FIG. 1, the diode is a 1N1198 diode which acts as a blocking diode and an electric switch that allows voltage flow in one direction only. Thus the capacitor is never subjected to a pulse of reverse polarity.

The primary coil of the torroid is subject to a 50% duty cycle pulse. The torroidal pulsing coil provides a voltage step-up from the pulse generator in excess of five times, although the relative amount of step-up is determined by pre-selected criteria for a particular application. As the stepped-up pulse enters the first inductor (formed from 100 turns of 24 gauge wire 1 inch in diameter), an electromagnetic field is formed around the inductor, voltage is switched off when the pulse ends, and the field collapses and produces another pulse of the same polarity; i.e., another positive pusle is formed where the 50% duty cycle was terminated. Thus a double pulse frequency is produced; however, in a pulse train of unipolar pulses, there is a breif time when pulses are not present.

In an example of the circuit of FIG. 1 (in which other circuit element specifications are provided above), two concentric cylinders 4 inches long formed the water capacitor of the fuel cell in the volume of water. The outside cylinder was 0.75 inch OD; the inner cylinder was 0.5 inch OD. Spacing from the outside of the inner cylinder to the inner surface of the outer cylinder was 0.0625 inch. Resonance in the circuit was achieved at a 26 volt applied pulse to the primary coil of the torroid at 0KHz, and the water molecules disassociated into elemental hydrogen and oxygen...

That 0KHz must be an OCR error. but at least we know there is a zero in the number. Basically, here is a starting point to his device. Build it and add a Lawton device to the primary and you are set. It almost seems to easy doesn't it?

Gotta jet! cya!

[aussepom]

Hi just a quick one  it's my understanding that the square looking core in SM's fig one IT WAS CONSTRUCTED USING A STANDARD 'O' CORE TRANSFORMER MATERIAL AND NOT AS SOME WOULD ASSUME A TORIODAL CORE.
  In my opinion he was trying to use the 'mag amp' theory but got it wrong. he also states that ALL THE WINDINGS WE WOUND IN THE SAME DIRECTION. I will not go into any further debate over this as every one has a different opinion but some basic electrical and and electronic principals can not be ignored.
aussepom 
 

[hansvonlieven]

Sorry Farrah,

I don't agree with your take on electrodes. If, and I say if, you are after a condenser effect then the underlying metal is of no importance since the oxide layer makes it inert to electrolysis.

In this case you will not have a current running through the water but you are relying on resonance with the electric field instead. Perhaps you could have a look at Keely, he supposedly crated the same effects without electricity and used sonic vibrations instead.

There is good reason to believe that Stan was aware of Keely and tried to use an electric field instead for his introductory impulses. His use of compound frequencies is typically Keely.

Hans von Lieven