Meyer's WFC concept analysed

[dutchy1966]

So assuming that there is a frequency at which the water molecule will disassociate at a much lower input energy level than normal electrolysis, the task is then to discover the best frequency or frequencies to do this.  Of course it will depend on individual cell construction, electrodes and electrode distance, water composition, etc, but once you know what you are trying to achieve, adjustments should be easy enough to make.

Anyway boys, let's see if we can't make some headway ourselves. I'm going to build Daves pulsing circuit up and do a bit of experimenting myself as and when time allows.

Regards, Farrah Day.

Hi Farrah Day and everyone,

It seems to me that alot of people are confused about the resonance that Stanley meyer is talking about although it is clearly stated in his patent 4,798,661 what is actually resonating.......The physical motion of the hydrogen and oxygen atoms!!!

Here's a quote from that patent;

The pulsing voltage on the plate exciters applying a physical force is matched in repetition rate to the wavelength of the spacing of the plate exciters. The physical motion of the hydrogen and oxygen charged atoms being attracted to the opposite polarity zones will go into resonance. The self sustained motion of the hydrogen and oxygen atoms of the water molecule greatly enhances their diassociation from the water molecule.

So, in my interpretation he is saying that you have to resonate the atoms so they will only need limited power to break them apart. This also explains perfectly the fact that there is no resonance in the electronic circuit as such. The circuit PULSES and the pulses bring the ATOMS into physical motion resonance......

Hope this helps....

Regards

Robert

[HeairBear]

I thought thats what you would say

Iv tried alot of combos

You can tune your cell with a TIG welder. You can use both AC or DC and you need a TIG welder with Pulse but you can turn the amps to the wanted number.. then with the foot control apply volts to the wanted level. Iv done this and you can play with it until you get a combo that works with your cell. This works great since values can change so easy. Im not sure any machine out there does the same thing. I used a Miller Dynasty 200 DX. Once you know the amps, volts and frequency you can built a circuit.

Im working on mine right now here is a pic
http://alterhonda.com/images/neukinhhocell4.jpg

Hats off to you sir! Thank you for sharing your information. Lets see if we can't find a diagram of the circuitry in your TIG welder unit. How much does a unit cost? Or maybe I can rent one? I wonder if Harbor Freight has anything like that?

The Lawton style circuit is another great tool, It's finicky and finding a buzz350 is not that easy these days. Be prepared to buy extra components when it blows. What I don't like about the Lawton circuit is the 12v in and out. Not only do I want the variable pulses, I also would like to have a variable voltage like an old alternator or variac. For example, an alternator has the ability to produce varying frequencies just by changing the speed of the rotation, and/or input power. When the rpm's are increased the voltage, current and frequency will rise accordingly. This generated AC will be full wave rectified, and unfiltered with ripple and all resulting in DC pulses. The frequency of the full wave rectified pulsed DC will be double the AC input frequency. 60Hz AC turns to 120Hz in DC. Now I have my variable power and main frequency. Adding an SCR to gate the main frequency would be my next choice also being variable. Square waves seem to work best for me.
The harder the switching the better.

Although, now that I know about that TIG welder, I may have a different approach.

Cheers!

[HeairBear]

Farrah Day, I believe this patent will answer alot of your questions concerning specifics of certain components. After reading it again, I did find him stating the VIC does in fact go into resonance. And he specifies the diode used.... Have a look.
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4936961.pdf

You must sign up(free) to view the pdf.

Have fun!

[Farrah Day]

Nice looking unit Neukin, but it sounds like you could be using a lot of juice to drive it.

Hairbear, the Lawton circuit will do what you should be wanting it to do. If you can't find a buzz350, use something with similar characteristics, and slightly modify the values of any resistors if necessary.

Hey, 12V is what you want. Meyers dune buggy would surely have been a 12v system to enable its use in-car.  You don't need to have to vary the voltage, 12v or any other voltage will steadily charge the water capacitor up to whatever it will accept before current flows. What is important is being able to vary the pulse frequency and duration, which Lawton's circuit does.  You'll note that Meyers designs always start after this important circuit, ie, he does not show a circuit for producing the pulses in the first place.

Reading too much into what Meyer states in his patents or otherwise - as I've already stated - is a big mistake. It all sounds impressive and very plausible until you sit down and try to work a few things out. You'll note that Meyer states that the hydrogen and oxygen atoms are resonating, but never provides this frequency (which if it were the atoms would be a fixed and constant figure).  The blanks are there simply because he does not know what figure to put there.  Again, read that Puharich document link I posted earlier if you want an insight into what's going on.

OK, now one of my main problems with Meyers wfc, and a real bug bear of mine has always been the fact that tap water readily conducts, so the wfc can not simply act as a capacitor - tap water is a crap dielectric. 

So, what if the tap water is not the dielectric - and here comes something important. Ever heard of wet electrolyte capacitors?  They are very uncommon nowadays, an old fashioned capacitor from a 100 years ago, but they are basically electrodes submerged in a liquid (electrolyte) - ring any bells?  Yes, like Meyers wfc, but... and heres the key thing, the electrodes have a layer of oxide on them!

Might be some pennies starting to drop now.  Yes! An oxide layer on the electrodes is actually the dielectric, not the tap water, this is why many people say that the cells need to be conditioned first - they need to produce oxidation on the surface of the electrodes. However, this conditioning is not commonly understood and many people simply think that this helps the bubbles not stick to the electrodes and hence produce more gas. When in fact, the conditioning actually creates the capacitor.  So in effect the wfc is a capacitor (the oxide) in series with a resistor (the water).

Things now start to make a little more sense... don't they!

Farrah Day

[locked_in]

Hi FahrahDay,

I agree with a lot you say about Stanley Meyer, as he really was not using the technical terms correctly and that was counter productive to his cause as he lost a lot of credibility.
However, in I believe his last filed patent, he was quite accurate and detailed with his circuit description.
I am not sure if you have seen this patent, do a search for WO9207861A1.pdf.
Considering he was using a PLL circuit for feedback control, similar or better said more sophisticated
than the Puharich feedback loop, it appears to me that he did understand what was needed.

A simple 555 timer circuit providing space mark pulse bursts, which seems popular around the Stan
Meyer replication community, does not really work the same as the PLL circuit he described.

It does not surprise me at all, no one who is messing around with this Dave Lawton circuit and the 555 timers ever reported major gas production with low current. Not to mention the hobby scientists that
have claimed successful replication yet do not backup any of these claims with hard test data.

Anyway, I'd be very interested so as many others to see anybody be able to successful replicate
Stan's apparatus and publish the accompanying test data with it for independent verification.

just my 2 cent