Wild & crazy Caduceus Coil interpretation

[Koen1]

Hi all

To add to the fun here, I've decided to plonk an old idea of mine down here...
I'm sure others have come up with similar ideas and quite possibly more
extensively worked out. This stuff I'm posting here is far from complete,
it is just a little interpretational depiction on which we may be able to build.

Okay, here's the deal: The Caduceus. A fascinating symbol, originally and
traditionally seen as "staff of Ningishzida" (who was the messenger of the godess Ishtar)
by the Sumerians/Mesopotamians, "the staff of Hermes" by the Greeks, "staff of Mercury"
by the Romans, always carried by the messenger of the gods, and always depicted as
a staff with two serpents coiled around it.
Clearly there is something about this staff that makes it special...

Now from depictions in ancient Egyptian temples and stelas we know they had
electron tubes of some form, quite possibly glow-discharge "lamps".
All of the pictures of these show a pear-shaped glass bulb connected to a cable
on one end and supported by high voltage isolated supports on the other,
and a snake outstretched in its typical wavey style, tail end at the cable
and head towards the hV isolators. It doesn't take much imagination to
recognise this as a spark coming from the cable end and moving to the other end
of the bulb.
So let's assume this is how the Egyptian priests depicted electrical sparks:
as serpents slithering head-first towards the anode from the cathode.
Let's also assume they did not spend their days merely worshipping the
pharaos and building pyramids, and they also spent time tinkering with
inventions, like a sort of stone-age Nikola Tesla wannabes.

Well then, let's take a look at that Caduceus from a more electrodynamic and
less mythological view...
We have some type of central rod, with two coils around it.
Assuming the ancients didn't depict the two coiled snakes in opposition merely
because they had a lousy sense of depth, but because they actually intended
to convey the concept of them being opposed to eachother, let's interpret
that as one "clockwise" wound coil and one "counterclockwise" wound coil,
both coiled around the same rod. For aesthetic reasons as well as more neat
accordance with basic electromagnetic observations, let's assume they
are coiled in such a way that their coil windings cross eachother at exactly
90 degrees, and that all points where the coils overlap are neatly arranged along
a line through the middle of the rod (if you look at it from the side).
I'm sure most of you know how a good Caduceus coil can be wound, and others
can look it up.

The Caduceus symbol has the serpents facing eachother at the top of the coil.
In many old depictions the snakes are shown with their tongues touching,
or they are shown with their tongues touching the top of the rod, or even biting
into the ball on top of the rod.
Continuing the path of reasoning that the snakes head indicates the direction
of electricity flow, we see two opposing coils wound around the same "core",
and both coils only conduct current from the bottom of the "core" rod to the
top of it. Already it is getting more interesting: we now have two coils that
will produce opposite potentials under influence of one main magnetic field.
Could there be something that forces any electromagnetic fluctuations to
produce a current in the same direction?
Well, it just so happens the Egyptians were not stupid, and they knew quite a few
interesting minerals. Taking into account their simple batteries and lamps,
I would say they could have had a level of knowledge comparable to that of the
1900s, as far as electrical science goes. So let's look at some very old
tech that used raw minerals and still worked quite nicely: the cat-whisker diode.
That is basically a chunk of suitable mineral set in a piece of metal on one side,
and on the other side the tip of a piece of wire is pressed against the mineral
surface at the exact right spot. The result is a primitive rectifying diode, and
that was a very common element in radio receivers until the 1950s.
Alright, so let's say the old Egyptian priest/scientists also knew this from
experiments, and used it.
Let's say they actually used "cat-whisker" or in their case more accurately
"serpents-tongue" diodes, where a metal wire tip pressed against a piece of
crystal. It may be considered that perhaps they used a different type of primitive
contact diode which is not necessarily a "cats-whisker" type, hence the few
depictions of the snakes biting into the ball: direct coil-to-crytal connections
could be possible. In any case, the most important suggestion is: they may
have used a diode type connection.

That would turn the setup into a sort of full wave rectifier: the opposing coils
could receive opposing magnetic fields (hence e/m waves), the diode elements
would "force" the current in one direction.
Assuming the central rod is connected at the bottom to the tips of the snakes tails,
the current would always flow from the top of the rod to the bottom...

So far for the coils.
Now the central rod could be made of iron, which would make it a good magnetic "core",
and would also make it conductive.
There are quite some possible variations here. Some Caduceus depictions show an Ankh
type symbol with the two snakes around it. Could be a form of aerial/antenna. Some show
a circle on top of the staff, again, could be a loop antenna. And some show just a rod with
a ball on the top, but the rod is sometimes clearly longer than the coiled snakes are.
Could be a simple rod antenna. Perhaps there is something more going on,
as I have tried to indicate in the picture below.
If you look at crystal radio circuits that are said to be a remarkable lot more efficient than
slightly more simple crystal sets, they most often have two coils: a large and a small coil.
In most of those I know, the small coil is wired to the aerial and the ground, and the larger
coil is connected to the actual diode and rest of the circuit. Small coil has less windings,
large coil has more.
Now look at the Caduceus rod sticking out from the coils...
If that's a ferromagnetic rod, it is in a way a sort of zero-windings coil...
That could mean the rod is the smaller antenna coil, and the coils are the
larger circuit coils...

Alright, there's still quite a few bits not accounted for...
for one, if this really is an abstract depiction of some electromagnetic
radio-like device, we would expect to see a capacitor in the circuit.
Clearly there is no capacitor... Or is there?
It has been claimed that "bifilar" and "caduceus" coils don't need
a capacitor to function in a radio circuit. I do not know if this is actually true.
If anyone has first hand info about this I'd like to hear it.
If it is true, then that's it, we have a weird form of portable radio antenna
plus collector circuit.

There's more possibilities of course... I mean, according to some
people the Egyptians used odd metal tubes filled with various
materials for unknown magic purposes. And some of those rods have
actually been found in tombs. Typical examples are apparently
copper and zinc rods with filling of carbon, magnetite, quartz, etc.
Now I don't know what you guys think when you hear "zinc tube
filled with carbon", but I hear "simple alkaline battery"...
And what would happen if the central rod were filled with magnetite?
What would happen if the rod were moved around?

Could it be that the Caduceus staff could generate a relatively strong
electric charge by simply moving the staff itself around, so that
the coils would experience a moving magnetic field and current
would be induced?
Or perhaps it is even more freaky, and perhaps this is the radio circuitry
that only needed a speaker of some kind (electrostatically stimulated
drum perhaps? with a golden fleece? Omg now it's really getting freaky )...

Well, there's the start of the idea.
If you like it, please think about it a bit and maybe you can come up with
even more funky options

I will attach a pic below in which I have attempted to convey part of this
interpretation. I admit it could be clearer.

For those interested, here's a few urls for info on:
- those weird Egyptian rod thingys http://www.rodsofra.com/what_are.htm
- more on the rods, bagdad battery, etc http://www.rodsofra.com/faq.htm
(note: the above site tries to sell such rods but once you've read the description you can simply make them)
- crystal radios 1) http://www.clarion.org.au/crystalset/mystery.html, 2) http://sci-toys.com/scitoys/scitoys/radio/ten_minute_radio.html,
3) http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.arar93.dsl.pipex.com/mds975/Images/mk484_circuit.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.arar93.dsl.pipex.com/mds975/Content/trfradios.html&h=86&w=136&sz=18&tbnid=p6b0Of_EXo4J:&tbnh=86&tbnw=136&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcircuit%2Bdiagram&hl=en&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=1&ct=image&cd=3
Of course there's lots more info out there, these are just the ones I used to quickly slam together the
attached drawing.

Kind regards,
hope some interesting replies follow.

Koen

[Feynman]

Koen, cool idea.  Have you seen this?

http://jnaudin.free.fr/spgen/index.htm
http://jnaudin.free.fr/spgen/spg_shield.htm

[jeanna]

Cool Koen1,

Kinda sounds like the Stubblefield "battery" doesn't it? Even to the globe on the top which I, at least, am convinced is the capacitor of the circuit.

I know you have watched that thread a bit. Were you aware that we are wrapping the coils like this? They are not separate at the bottom and the tails are at the top with their heads, but by wrapping down then continuing to wrap in what seems to be the same way but coming back up we have this configuration that also resembles a double helix.

And if you touch the central rod with one of the coils, the voltage goes down very fast?

And the top of the coil is the south end of the magnet.

woah Koen this is cool.

jeanna

[Koen1]

@Feynman: Yeah, of course I know that one!
Naudins site has been one of my vavorites for years, and the scalar transmitter
is one of the most funky devices on it. After all, it does what shouldn't be possible:
it sends electromagnetic waves straight through a faraday cage!
Caduceus coils have long been suggested to be related to scalar/torsion/twistor/spinor
waves and fields. This is one of the few actual well documented and tested devices
using such an effect though, as far as I know.
It is possible that the caduceus circuit I suggested works as a scalar tansceiver,
a scalar crystal radio so to speak.
If you have any other ideas on this you're very welcome to post them, of course.
Who knows, we might just crack this ancient tech.

@Jeanna:

Kinda sounds like the Stubblefield "battery" doesn't it? Even to the globe on the top which I, at least, am convinced is the capacitor of the circuit.

I know you have watched that thread a bit. Were you aware that we are wrapping the coils like this? They are not separate at the bottom and the tails are at the top with their heads, but by wrapping down then continuing to wrap in what seems to be the same way but coming back up we have this configuration that also resembles a double helix.

Hi Jeanna
Thanks! intersting idea eh?

To be honest I hadn't really spotted the similarities with Stubblefield yet... interesting...
Now I have only off and on been keeping an eye on the earth battery thread, but from what I recall it breaks down like this:
- (soft) iron core, in most cases a big bolt
- bifilar wound coil, one wire bare iron, the other cotton isolated copper, this duo coil acting as primary and producing
a galvanic DC current, the main output source
- secondary coil normally wound of a single wire of isolated copper, used as "trigger" coil to activate the "battery"
And I am unclear on the use of water; in Stubblefields original patent and texts it is described how the "battery" is
submerged in water, in others it must be buried in wet ground... and I have also read statements that he packed
some of his "batteries" in clay or ceramic or just a plant pot filled with earth...

But what you're saying now is that the primaries are also wound caduceus style? I completely missed that part...
Are the bare iron wire and semi-isolated copper wire still wound 'bifilar' as in right next to eachother?
So we have the iron wire and the copper wire right next to eachother, and then coiled up like a caduceus,
wound clockwise from top to bottom and then back up from bottom to top counterclockwise, both of them?

The seperation of the clockwise and counterclockwise coils was my doing, as it seems to be much more
along the lines of the coiled serpents in the depictions.
In general, caduceus coils as they have been used and referred to by OU and other reserachers are wound
from one single wire so that the leads are both at either top or bottom of the coil, and the one half of
the coil is in opposition to the other half.
Seperating the two was inspired by the snake pictures, and it occurred to me that such a setup might
have rectifying characteristics... But there are other possibilities of course.
Just to name one: if the "snake heads" are not connected to the top of the rod via actual diode-like
connections, but rather positioned a small distance from the top of the rod, and there is indeed a
ball atop the rod, it is conceivable that the "snake heads" and ball act as spherical capacitors.
If the caduceus can receive/intercept so-called "longtitudional waves", "scalar waves", "non-
Hertzian waves", it is remotely possible that current is induced in this "scalar coil", in both
"serpents" at the same time, and that could cause a charge buildup in the capacitors and
even result in sparks between the rod and the coils... Well, of course that's mostly wild speculation,
but it is possible...

Oh, as for my previous remark that capacitance in radio circuits has been claimed
using a bifilar coil instead of a capacitor, here's what Wikipedia says:

An early example of the bifilar coil can be seen in Nikola Tesla's United States patent 512,340 of 1894. Tesla explains that in some applications (which he does not specify) the self-inductance of a conventional coil is undesired and has to be neutralised by adding external capacitors. The bifilar coil in this configuration has increased self-capacitance, thereby saving the cost of the capacitors. It is notable that this is not the kind of bifilar winding used in non-inductive wirewound resistors where the windings are wired anti-series to null out self-inductance.

(from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bifilar_coil)
Now that seems to imply that, if properly used, bifilar coils can eliminate the need for a capacitor in a circuit...
It's a pity that the exact type of coil winding is not indicated. Could be anything really, what with the enormous number
of coil designs and applications Tesla described...
But if a caduceus, either "normal" series connected (the one wire type, effectively the opposite coils connected in series),
or "seperated" parallel connected (the opposite coils connected in parallel), can indeed perform both the functions
of a capacitor and of induction coils, then the crystal radio interpretation has gained some realism

After some more digging I really can't find an exact description of a specific kind of coil, but in Tesla's bifilar pancake coil
patent he does indicate the main difference between his bifilar coil design which cancels coil capacitance and eliminates
the need for seperate capacitors (to counter the coil capacitance only), and the less spectacular "normal" bifilar
coils that were already known; it seems the coil he's talking about consisted of two coils, both wound in the same
direction with the wires next to eachother, coil A connected with its "back end" to coil B's "front end", in other words,
connected in series. So that's parallel wound, connected in series.
The "normal" caduceus coil arrangement is oppositely wound and connected in series,
and the version I suggested is oppositely wound and connected in parallel...
Ok, that doesn't help one bit.

[jeanna]

But what you're saying now is that the primaries are also wound caduceus style? I completely missed that part...

You would have to have made 12 or so of them to get this  . actually the cadeusus as drawn shows the opposite of what you described. I was replying to your verbal description. As I said you should make one to have it in your hands to see the twist that occurs when it is coming back up. The naudin scheme appears the same as the stubblefield (NS) in its windings of down then continuing back up. (a faraday blaster mmm)

If you wind down and then without reversing anything you wind back up you are getting a reversal. If you wind down then reverse and wind back up you are reversing the reversal. It is a head spinner. too   

I am so glad you have brought this up. As I am sure you know, DNA is a double strand and each strand is connected to the other and so it is like one layer of a bifilar wind. Now, all proteins and DNA wrap back onto themselves many times producing manyfold wraps of this bifilar stuff. and of course it is all electromagnetic, too- chemically produced electrical impulses.  ooo i love this!

So we have the iron wire and the copper wire right next to eachother, and then coiled up like a caduceus,

yes

wound clockwise from top to bottom and then back up from bottom to top counterclockwise, both of them?

yes, as I mentioned the continuance of the coil makes the direction reverse.

Seperating the two was inspired by the snake pictures, and it occurred to me that such a setup might
have rectifying characteristics

I guess I have a few more coils to wind. 
The snake pix are too ancient to have been changed by ancient disinfo. or are they? That activity has surely been going on for a long time. I will think about this (probably a lot  ) I have been taught at the school of ancient wisdom that the cadeusus does indeed represent DNA and I have wondered why the snakes were separate because the winding of the snakes is not like DNA. I just forgot to think about it more. I will now.

... But there are other possibilities of course.
wild speculation,
but it is possible...

It is the only way to break out. Keep it coming. It is a good ride if nothing else.

(the opposite coils connected in parallel), can indeed perform both the functions
of a capacitor and of induction coils, then the crystal radio interpretation has gained some realism

When we started to wind the NS battery coils, several people stepped forward and said this is what was happening. (ie simultaneously a galvanic and a capacitance reaction) I trust their greater experience ( I still have trouble with it but I have less experience  ) To my mind it is a lot easier to see the induction coil as simultaneously a capacitor. Of course the NS coils are only briefly connected. We are still working on this.

lots to think about.
Thanks Koen and Feynman,

jeanna

P.S.

a galvanic DC current, the main output source

mmmmm probably not output source just a little juice to start things off.

- secondary coil normally wound of a single wire of isolated copper, used as "trigger" coil to activate the "battery"

maybe, but probably the main output.

And I am unclear on the use of water; in Stubblefields original patent

The inner bolt and primary bifilar coils are to be moist. They actually work better moist rather than submerged.
It is likely that there is a play between galvanic reax and electrolysis. one gumming the other cleaning.
we are still at it but it looks good.