Wild & crazy Caduceus Coil interpretation

[jeanna]

Nice pics Pyrodin.
This last one has a lot of extra symbolism.mmmmm
The earlier ones clearly show a Stubblefield format with the bottoms connected.

OK Koen, I am really liking what you are bringing up.

...Caduceus coils used in Tesla coil setups?
... "pancake coil",
which is almost always a bifilar wound coil like Tesla described in his
bifilar coil patent...
Now a Caduceus is a sort of bifilar coil, just coiled in a solenoid instead of
a flat spiral, and the two "sub-coils" wired slightly differently...

... let's just assume the serpent heads are copper balls
at the ends of two oppositely wound copper coils, and the central rod
is still another type of conductor,

with another ball connected to its top.


That way we'd have a set of spherical capacitors, and electrostatic induction
between these could influence and/or generate charge movement in the
coils...

This again needs to be worked out in greater detail,
but I'm hoping it
is possible to make this into a self-stimulating system where charges
build up in the metal balls, and finally discharge in a couple of nice sparks,
and continues to recharge and spark.
Like I said: similar to a Tesla coil, but different in design (and slightly different in function).

exactly. similar to Tesla but different.
Stubblefield coil battery, similar in design
he even called it a self generating electromagnet

Look at the spheres. I have been maintaing over at the EB and now Stubblefield threads that these spheres are capacitors.

Please read the patent 600457

A magnetic core (the staff)
Surrounded by the bifilar cu fe wires with both heads and tails at the top. (snakes with tongues out)
Sphere right on top hiding the wires that are doing something we cannot see.
hemisphere on bottom open toward the earth
All this is wrapped in a secondary.
Kinda like Tesla eh? .....

here is a pic from the other thread

jeanna

[Koen1]

@Pyrodin: Hehe nice to see you came up with that as well!
Indeed, this is something I considered quite quickly.
I just decided to think and work through the variations of a "simple"
caduceus coil first, as there are quite a few.
But very funny to see that you posted that pic of a coiled coil
at just about the same time I had just finished drawing out all
variations of a caduceus with what I now believe is a possible
practical variation of a Tesla coil, and all included coiled coils.

I don't have much time now so I'll draw it out later and post it,
but basically it comes down to this:
- we take a wire and wind it into a normal coil (coil1)
- we take coil1 and use it as a wire to wind another coil (coil2)
- we wind coil2 as a caduceus coil
Coil1 has electricity spiral around a central magnetic flux "line".
Coil2 has magnetism spiral around a central electric "flux line".
If such an electric "flux line" is coiled caduceus style and generates
a magnetic pole (or two), a similarly caduceus coiled magnetic
"flux line" should generate an electrical pole.
Now the trick is: if the coil1 is wound in the right way, the
current induced by the coil2 in the core can be fed from the
core into the coil1 windings to create opposite charges on the
coil1 wire in respect to the core. Result: core becomes oppositely
charged to the coil1 wire, any charge movement in the core stimulates
charge movement in the coil1 and vice versa, always in such a way to
increase charge seperation.
Oh, mind you: this again is with the core connected to the bottom "tail end"
of the caduceus electrically, so charges from the core can actually flow
into the coils.
Another variation with very similar (if not identical) outcome would be
to wind two coil1's, a coil1A and coil1B which are oppositely wound,
and used to wind two identically wound coil2's much like a "normal"
bifilar coil, and both coil2's again connected to the core at the bottom...
Interesting, the two different shades of snake in the Celtic caduceus could
be interpreted as oppositely wound coils...

Great minds think alike

@Jeanna: Yes, the capacitor thing...
Have given it some more thought, and I think it may play a large role here.
More so than a diode function which I hypothesised at the start of this thread.
I still think a cousin of the diode effect may still play a small role, but that is
not terribly significant at this point.
I am now inclinded to think the central rod and the caduceus are two 'plates'
of a 'cylindrical capacitor', and the 2 "snake heads" and the rods spherical top
are a form of 'spherical capacitor'...
In my mind it is starting to look more and more like a slighlty twisted version
of a Tesla coil
What we really need is a Tesla coil fanatic who has built a few different versions,
and can perhaps give us some hands-on experience input on how similar this
"twisted" TC really is to the variations he's familiar with...
Well, ok, we don't really need one, but it would be nice to get some input from
that end...

Another thought: the central rod need not necessarily be solid;
it could well be a cylinder (wrapped around the wooden staff).
Electrostatically that would still work as far as the capacitor effects are concerned,
and it might even have a positive effect electrodynamically (as current through
a cylindircal conductor tends to spiral around the cylinder a little bit, which
might cause a sort of natural coil-like effects, and possibly hook into the
surrounding coil fields better).

Amazing how much you can come up with from such a symbol...

[jeanna]

OK folks, are you ready? yes you are. This is wild and crazy.

look at those leopards. no, they are not leopards they are the secondary. you can see cut through the way you would show a secondary in a patent. And then look at the hats on their heads. Is that 2 wires sticking up out of the top?

hmmm 
The hats actually look like those globes atop the NS battery and look down the neck, is there more snake like skin wrapping around the necks? So is that more wire?

so, maybe it is 2 secondarys kind of like the 2 secondarys used for a coil gun or in the circuit of the camera flash. oooooo

I need to take my NS battery drawing back to photoshop to finish a drawing of the stubblefield battery and you will be the first to see it.

thank you,

jeanna

[Koen1]

Yeah, nice one Jeanna! 

Indeed, we can interpret the two Griffins as secondaries.
(They look like Griffins to me: mosaic hybrids of a lion/feline body
with birds wings and talons, and it looks like the heads may even
be serpent heads. Generally an ancient symbol for a divine/supernatural
power, traditionally considered related to the serpent-, dragon-, and
even unicorn-symbolism which stands for royalty and the divine. The
hats look remarkably similar to traditional priests' hats, very similar
to those still worn in the coptic church. See the links? )

If we take the central rod to represent a core of iron or a ferromagnetic material,
and the caduceus as a "normal" wire-wound caduceus around that,
the griffins on the sides could be two oppositely wound secondary coils,
of which the current flows in one direction only (the two swords pointed down)...

There are so many possible interpretations and also many possible variations
for circuits that could be meant...
For example, if we only look at the caduceus as two oppositely wound coils,
assume they are connected to the core rod at the "tail end", and the end leads
of both coil and rod at the top all have a ball on them, a flux along the length of the
rod would induce current so that one of the coil balls gains a positive and the other
gains a negative charge, while the central rod ball experiences an internal charge
shift due to electrostatic induction from the coil balls. When the flux disappears,
the charges built up in the balls will want to discharge through the conductors,
but the reversed charge flow will generate an opposing flux in the rod, and this will
stimulate charge flow in the other direction, thereby possibly giving the charge
flow and extra "push", quite possibly resulting in a total reversal of charges on the
spherical capacitors. In this way, it could act like a simple oscillator circuit.
However, the central rod will also "see" this charge switch and will also experience
an internal charge shift. This may or may not result in a magnetic pulse, which
could just give the charge flow in the coils an extra "push".
Then, of course, there's the capacitor effect, which might keep all the charge from
moving to the other coil ball, and could keep some amount of charge on the balls.
This would mean there is some charge flow, but some charges remain on the balls.
It might even cause only one of the two coils to "react" to a magnetic flux change,
alternately adding charge to either of the spherical capacitors, thereby building
up negative charge on the coils and building up positive charge on the rod sphere,
much like a sort of two-stroke electron pump... (although I do admit this seems unlikely
in this specific configuration. Other configurations seem to be more suitable for this.)

Another element that I feel may be of importance here is the possibility of spark
discharges. Imagine the charges on the balls building up to the point where they can
discharge through the air. Imagine that a spark jumps from or between one or both of the
coil balls to the rod ball. Not only wil this result in a very short and fast movement of the
electron gas in the conductors, which can rsult in a magnetic field and/or initial charge
movement, but the spark itself will generate an electromagnetic pulse which can be
"felt" by the coils and might result in increased charge flow. Another possible extra "push".
And let's not forget that Tesla was very excited about spark discharges, even claimed that
spark discharges are important in harnessing the radiant energy sea... I seem to recall
Tesla papers where he describes how a spark discharge generates a high potential spike
that can be captured and used, and I believe he even suggested this to have something to do
with his 'longtitudional waves', but I'm not sure. In any case, the main thing is that a spark
might cause very interesting effects that could increase the active energy flows in the system.

Now that's just one version. A variation on that is to use a cylindrical 'core'.
Another variation is to not connect the caduceus to the rod at all, and yet another
to do this with or without (multiple) secondary(s).
Another is to use "second degree" coils, so a basic coil used as the wire and coiled up
again. And here again we can make variations that have the caduceus bottom end connected
to the rod or not, use either a rod or a cylinder, and have the charges oscillate from one coil
end to the other, or merely between top and bottom of the coils; opposite charges form on
the rod ball and coil balls, and even sparks jump there.

And then there is the interesting factoid that a caduceus where the windings cross at
exactly 90 degrees is a weird little bugger anyway: a perfect electromagnet coil is a
circular current path, where the plane of rotation is at precisely 90 degrees to the
magnetic field generated in its core (and around it as the Heaviside component).
A perfect current is a linear current path where the line is at precisely 90 degrees to the
circular magnetic field around it.
A coil where the windings are at precisely 45 degrees is exactly in between those two:
it "sees" both a circular current path and a circular flux path at 45 degrees, and it "sees"
a linear flux path and linear current path at 45 degrees as well.
Two of these intersecting at 90 degrees at every winding can "see" both a linear and
a circular path, both of flux and of current.
This is totally different from any normal coil and also totally different from a normal current.
It is very well possible that such a coil can be used as a "second degree coil" (coiled coil),
as well as a normal coil. This depends on the exact interaction between the two oppositely
wound coil halves and the input they receive; if it is possible to feed the two halves different
signals, various kinds of field geometries can be created and received.
Perhaps this is what the two Griffins represent: the possibility for the two halves of the
caduceus to act independantly instead of as one single caduceus, thereby allowing
for a huge range of possible effects...

All of these elements can be combined in different ways to form at least half a dozen
variations that might be interesting to test.

Can't wait to see your drawing, Jeanna.

[PYRODIN123321]

WOW.. I cant wait to see where this goes...the leopards really do look like a cutaway of a coil !!!