Wild & crazy Caduceus Coil interpretation

[konduct]

My two cents. It's  thought that the snakes are the most ancient known icon for science used by the ancients. Not saying that they couldn't represent coils...the DNA reference is particularly strong. Also something to look into is the Rod of Ptah.  This is thought to be how they transported heavy pyramid stones as well as be the same rod Moses used to part the Red Sea. More info here... http://www.crystalinks.com/ptah.html

[PYRODIN123321]

HEY Koen1! I thought the same thing when i saw the ancient caduceus, but i thought it might be a for flying because of the wings in almost all of the depictions.I found this with a google image search, its sumerian.


got this off another site

Ningishzida Rising


From a very poor rendition of a relief impression of the royal libation cup of King Gudea of Lagash (Sumer), ca 2000 BC, depicting Ningishzida (also Ningishzidda and assorted other spellings) in its twin serpent form, precursor to the Caduceus of Hermes. Sometimes depicted as male and sometimes female gender, Ningishzida has profound significance for hermetic alchemists in specific, since according to legend, Ningishzidda was the first genetic alchemist to have appeared among the pantheon of the gods and it was his/her skill at this particular science that made it possible for the human race to evolve into what it is today, i.e., part hominid, part god, as the story goes.

[PYRODIN123321]

[Koen1]

@Konduct: Good that you bring that up. Indeed, there is a sideline to the Caduceus
that involves Moses; according to certain allegedly Rabbinistic traditional stories,
the staff of Moses was actually an ancient staff that can be traced back through
Joseph, through Seth, to Adam, who received it from God personally. The story
as I read it goes that Joseph's  inheritance in Egypt was at some point confiscated
by the Egyptian nobles and high priests, and Jethro was one of these who acquired
the staff. Upon returning home in southern Egypt, Jethro planted this magical staff
in the ground where it stood for years, attracting lightning strikes and slaying those
who dared to come close with magical fire. When Moses, who according to both
the old testament/torah and the rabbinistic tradition had been "educated in all
of the wisdom of Egypt" (including metallurgy and their version of physics), came
to visit his father-in-law-to-be Jethro, he was told of the dangers of this magic staff,
and despite the warnings went to collect the staff anyway. Somehow he managed to
pull the staff from the ground without getting smitten, and Jethro expressed his great
respect for Moses' knowledge of magic. Ever since, Moses carried the staff.
Interesting related factoid: the Egyptian metallurgical center was in the south
of Egypt, and the scientists and metallurgist working there belonged to the priest
cast, as science was conducted by the priests in those days. Jethro was the high priest
of this temple complex, which incidentally was located partly on a mointain and
had foundries that probably produced lots of smoke... Burning bush on the mointain?
Yes, burning lots of wood actually, but not a selfcombusting talking bush...
Also interesting: "Moses" (in variations) was also a term used in Egypt for "wise man",
"scientist", "skilled in the art", "knowledgable" among the priest and educated classes,
and the term "the Lord" or "Lord" was also used for the pharao or any other person of
high esteem and authority, in a quite similar way as the term "lord" was used for nobility
in Europe later. Many references to "the Lord" in exodus may not actually be meant as
"God", but rather as references to some very esteemed, noble, educated person of
authority. So when, according to Exodus, Moses has just left Egypt and has just entered
the Sinai, and his father-in-law Jethro comes to visit and speak with him, is it truly
a coincidence that right after this visit, Moses goes up onto a mountain which is
covered in clouds of smoke, to speak with "the lord" residing on the mountain?
Or did he simply climb up to the main office of Jethro, Lord of the materials science department,
located in the metallurgical complex on the mountain?
In that light, it is a lot less surprising that he comes down the mountain with exact
schematics for a large box capacitor with slidable antenna poles, and exact descriptions
of the electrostatic harness and isolating clothing the priests need to wear near it
in order to not get smitten by divine fire...
Now this also gives a twist to the entire story of Moses and his staff writhign on the ground
like a snake; The exodus story tells of him visiting the pharao and throwing his staff on the
ground, where it writhed like a snake, which severely impressed all present until the pharaos
"magicians" managed to do the same trick. If we may consider the snake to be symbolic
of an electrical spark, then perhaps this story is a dramatisation and bastardisation of
something that people simply did not understand as they did not know electricity:
imagine a man educated in these "cutting edge" sciences like electrodynamics,
allbeit on a level comparative to that of ours in the 1900s, who has a special device
mounted on a staff that can generate electrical discharges. Imagine nobody except
a bunch of priest/scientists has this knowledge, and the main authority in the field
is the mans father-in-law, possibly even his teacher/professor. In this setting, such
knowledge and especially its practical application was considered "magic" that the
priests could perform for the greater glory of Amon/Ra, whose human representative
on earth was the pharao. Now this man goes to the pharao, makes some demands,
and threatens to use his magic is the pharao doesn't comply. To put some pressure
on the situation he demonstrates a feat of strong magic: he makes his staff-mounted
device produce a sustained spark that writhes like a snake: a magic snake that sprouts
from the "copper" staff, which turns back into a "simple" staff when the man chooses
to pick it up again. Try to explain Tesla-coil-like sustained and clearly visible sparks
to a person who has no knowledge of electricity and has never seen a Tesla coil,
and let this person try to convey this story, see what it has turned into when it
reaches the 10th person; I would not at all be surprised if the story has turned into
the story of a magician who can produce "holy fire" and "magic snakes of fire"...
I can just imagine this Moses guy tapping the stone floor with the tip of his staff,
which just happens to be some sort of high voltage generating device, and having
sparks 'lick' the floor...

Well, anyway, so there's quite some interesting stories that tie together here, it seems.

Now to reverse engineer this ancient tech.

I was just thinking, who's got some experience with building Tesla coils?
Does anyone know of Caduceus coils used in Tesla coil setups?
I do know that many (most?) Tesla coils use the "pancake coil",
which is almost always a bifilar wound coil like Tesla described in his
bifilar coil patent...
Now a Caduceus is a sort of bifilar coil, just coiled in a solenoid instead of
a flat spiral, and the two "sub-coils" wired slightly differently...

But my new wild thought was: what if instead of using a pancake coil
to excite a solenoid-type coil-and-electrode, we use a solenoid-type
caduceus to excite an electrode? Could we "twist" and "re-shape" the
fields in such a way that we don't use a pancake coil, but still get
a very similar high voltage generation effect?

In that respect, let's imagine we're not using the "cat-whisker" crystal
diodes at all, let's just assume the serpent heads are copper balls
at the ends of two oppositely wound copper coils, and the central rod
is still another type of conductor, with another ball connected to its top.
That way we'd have a set of spherical capacitors, and electrostatic induction
between these could influence and/or generate charge movement in the
coils...
This again needs to be worked out in greater detail, but I'm hoping it
is possible to make this into a self-stimulating system where charges
build up in the metal balls, and finally discharge in a couple of nice sparks,
and continues to recharge and spark.
Like I said: similar to a Tesla coil, but different in design (and slightly different in function).

Any input here is greatly appreciated.

@Pyrodin: Yep, that's what I was talking about when I mentioned

"staff of Ningishzida" (who was the messenger of the godess Ishtar)
by the Sumerians/Mesopotamians

.
Interestingly, some Celtic caduceus version have been found as well, and these either look
like the Ningishzida style (elongated quasi-rectangular coiled serpents, with or without central
rod), or like the Ourobouros (one or two snakes biting its/eachothers tail(s)).

Also, some Caduceus depictions, like this Ningishzida version, appear to show two
serpents coiled in the same direction. This may be an interesting variation to look at;
after all, "normal" coils are quite well known and should be easier to analyse.
So if we consider them as two coils wound in the same direction, and the central
rod as an iron core, we have a simple oscillator...  But if the bottom of both coils
is connected to the bottom of the core, and the coil "heads" are not connected to
the top of the rod, then what would happen? It is possible that some oscillation
may occur if spherical capacitors were used...
Somehow this seems much less exotic and less interesting than a true
"opposing coils" caduceus version...

Anyone for reactions/input on that line of thought?

thanks & regards,
Koen

[PYRODIN123321]

From another site, says its celtic, but who knows where it came from originaly

-just a thought

the lighter snake looks like it could be a coil itself-a coil wound around a coil- that would be a hard one to think about.

What happens when a regular coil is wound into a coil and then charged?
what happens when a magnetic field is spirialed?
-not to mention a caduceus coil