Faraday's Paradox experiment

[gravityblock]

Btw , magnetic fields are “disconnected” from magnets. The distortion in in space/time and frame
Like dragging a stick through mud perhaps..

Cliff,

One experiment may say the fields are disconnected from the magnets, while another experiment may say the field is connected or attached to the magnets.  The experiment itself can change the results, just like in the double-slit experiment.


Below is a quote from a publication done by Jorge Guala-Valverde and Pedro Mazzoni related to experiments with a Confined B-Field Homopolar Dynamotor, http://www.scribd.com/doc/36755129/B-Field-Confinement

A few words on the (in archaic language) “rotating”/“fixed” field lines controversy can be said in the light of our experiments.  For open configurations all happens as if B lines rotate anchored to the magnet, whereas the above lines appear to be attached to the whole magnetized bulk when dealing with confined arrangements.

Below is a quote found in the Conclusions of the paper titled Farraday's Final Riddle, http://www.scribd.com/doc/29043991/Faraday-s-Final-Riddle

The lines of force rotate with a magnet upon its North-South axis.  The emf, that is produced in a nearby circuit by a magnet, is caused by the cutting of the circuit by the lines of force of that magnet. It is not produced unless there is cutting of the circuit by those lines of force; additionally the cutting must be in one direction (net), or be by unequal force lines, if cut in two directions (net).

The Faraday Generator phenomenon is caused by the cutting of the stationary circuit by the lines of force of the magnet, as the magnet rotates. It has previously been supposed that the magnet is cutting its own lines of force.

When a disc is set rotating near the pole of the magnet, the results are anomalous. The results are fully explained as being due to involvement of only a portion of the whole circuit.  'Faraday's Law' of electromagnetic induction is true only in particular circumstances. As is known, a separate analysis is required for Motional Electromotive Force. One single general rule is missing. This paper provides the basis for such a general rule.

Below is a quote from a publication, titled Paradox 2, by Robert Distinti, http://www.distinti.com/docs/pdx/paradox2.pdf

Proponents of the rotating field suggest that energy is developed as the field is “cut” by the stationary closing path while others propose that the energy is developed in the disk which means that the field can not be rotating. New Electromagnetism (Specifically New Magnetism) teaches that the above question is moot since the field does rotate; however, no energy is developed in the closing path. This sounds like a contradictory statement to classically trained scientists and engineers; however, the Paradox 2 experiment clearly shows that power can be developed without cutting flux lines

GB

[gravityblock]

The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition states;

"If you take one electret and one magnet you will get a surprise. When not in motion, these two differing objects will have no effect on one another. It is only when you move them that anything happens ... and ... it is not the familiar attraction-repulsion. When a pole of the magnet is in relative motion to a "pole" of the electret they push each other at 90 degrees to the direction of motion. The effect is entirely odd and immediately unfamiliar (unless you are a physics student)."

I would like to propose two experiments, by using an electret and a magnet to test the Faraday Paradox.

1)  Rotating magnet with attached rotating electret.  If the field remains stationary, then the electret will be displaced.  This is a little tricky, because the electret will need to rotate with the magnet, but also must be able to be displaced.

2)  Rotating magnet with a stationary electret.  If the field rotates, then the electret will be displaced.

Hopefully experiment 2 won't contradict experiment 1.  If the electret isn't displaced in neither test, then the electret will need a changing magnetic field in order to be induced, which means both tests will need to be thrown out (Before throwing out the tests, an opposite direction of rotation or a reversal of the magnetic pole should be done).  It may be tempting to perform test 2 first, since it's an easier test.  I don't think this is the best order to perform the tests in though.  If the electret isn't displaced in test 2, then it may be assumed that the magnetic field remains stationary instead of needing to have a changing field, which both tests need to be performed before coming to this conclusion.

What do you guys think?  Do you have any concerns with this method of testing or suggestions in overcoming the displacement problem in experiment 1?

Thanks,

GB

[broli]

I don't think your second experiment will succeed. In theory rotating a magnet won't change much, remember the analogy of the train. If the magnet was a super conductor though, rotating it would increase the magnet field due to electron lag which you mechanically control. In a regular magnet you would increase the spin of both electrons as the "positive" atoms they are bound to, thus canceling out speed gain.

To me it's just silly to debate about this subject, because it's obvious that the field is moving with source but that knowledge doesn't get me any further.

[gravityblock]

I don't think your second experiment will succeed. In theory rotating a magnet won't change much, remember the analogy of the train. If the magnet was a super conductor though, rotating it would increase the magnet field due to electron lag which you mechanically control. In a regular magnet you would increase the spin of both electrons as the "positive" atoms they are bound to, thus canceling out speed gain.

To me it's just silly to debate about this subject, because it's obvious that the field is moving with source but that knowledge doesn't get me any further.

You may be right about the second experiment not succeeding and I do agree that the field is moving with the source?  We know in a rotating magnet and stationary circuit there are no charges seperated to induce an EMF, but we don't know if the field of the magnet can move the charges in this mode or not. I will concede that if the field of the magnet doesn't seperate the charges in this mode, then it's more than likely not able to move the charges either.....but we shouldn't assume. It hasn't been proven if the magnet has an electric field or not.  However, the HPG/HPM's do have an electric field, so the electret/magnet experiments may better match the conditions in which we are testing for, than a magnet/magnet experiment.

I don't think it's silly to debate this, as long as there is experimentation and learning.  You just never know what an experiment may reveal. We can advance a thousand rational hypotheses, whereas Nature makes use of only one, rejecting the other, however rational they may be. Or again, it may not even make use of any of them.  We need to see whether it corresponds with the method Nature uses.

GB

[gravityblock]

Electrostatic charges in v x B fields: the Faraday disk and the rotating sphere, http://www.physics.princeton.edu/~mcdonald/examples/EM/lorrain_ejp_11_94_90.pdf

Below is snippet of the introduction in the above publication.

1. Introduction

Imagine a body that moves at velocity v in a region where there exist an electric field E and a magnetic field B. Then an electric charge Q inside the body feels a force Q(E + v x B). Thus, inside the moving body, the v x B field acts like the electric field of a distributed source. We are concerned here with conducting media that move in magnetic fields. We shall see that they carry electrostatic charges whose field is just as important as v x B. Indeed, there are many cases where the two fields cancel each other exactly at every point. The Faraday disk and a conducting sphere rotating in a magnetic field will serve as examples, but this little known effect plays a fundamental role in magnetohydrodynamics.

2. Electrostatic charges in v x B fields

It is well known that conductors do not support an electric space charge; any extra charge deposited inside moves out to the periphery almost instantaneously (Lorrain et al 1988, p 75). However, few physicists realise that conductors do carry an electric space charge when subjected to a v x B field whose divergence is not equal to zero. If the conductor is isolated, then it also carries a compensating surface charge.

GB