RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE

[wattsup]

To solve the holes in fingernails problem, I'll wear gloves. lol

@najman100

Thanks for your great work. I will get the parts ASAP once I have the circuit in hand.

@gotoluc

Hey man don't give up.

Such mishaps must be expected and are part of the discovery process. I expected it sooner or later and only hope I did not jinx the project with my post to @groundloop. But it was only made to keep this project as real as possible in expecting the unexpected from flyback which can or cannot be the main payback to source.

@groundloop

I have taken the last few days and looked over (with my limited EE-IQ) the spec sheets for the major components and looking at your last diagram to see how they work together. I now understand why you are sending the negative of the 50vdc feed into the source side of the two right IRF640's. If you were to use the same sides as the left two IRF640's you would have required two n-channel and two p-channels, and this way you can use four of the same. Did I catch that one OK. If two n and two p channels were used, would it provide other benefits?

Now here is my main concern. From the left you have the 12vdc positive that is supplying power to pin 1's of the two IR2103s, and it is also going through the two MUR1100E diodes then to the pin 8s. Then on each of the pin 8s you have this 100uf capacitor that is going to the pulsed output leads that go to the coils. So my worry again is the flyback that will hit that capacitor and enter into the pin 8s. So the only barrier between the steady 12vdc side and the pulsed 50vdc pulsed side with flyback is those two 100uF capacitors. Are these capacitors really required in the circuit. Since the circuit is relying on the 4013 to provide the regulated impulses from the FG giving the two IR2013s their pulse cadence, why would you need this feedback pin 8 on a capacitor? And, if this has to be, is it  possible to put two small isolating coils between the capacitor and where it is connected on the other side of the resistor at pin 6. This would ensure no potential flyback to pin 8.

Then there are those two 22K resistors that are going from pin 7 to the pulsed outputs. Again, flyback voltages can be pretty high when pulsing with 50vdc and these resistors are the only thing between it and the pin 7 and again my question is do these resistors really have to be there. Does the pin 7 have to touch the outputs going to the coils?

In my mind, the reverse polarity outputs should have nothing on them other then the IRF640s that are doing the switching. Then from the two left IRF640s I see two other IRF640s that should be in parallel to the two left IRF640 that are doing the positive switching. The two added IRF640s can switch one flyback diode that is then connected "directly" back to the source of 50vdc.

If I was rubbing an old lamp (hmm why not a tube) and out popped an EE Genie that granted me one wish, I would ask for a switching system that could do as follows as my ideal EE pulsing and flyback control circuit.

1) positive, negative and flyback deviation connected at on pulse to outputs.
2) negative disconnected while the positive is still connected with the flyback deviation.
3) positive and flyback deviation disconnected
Repeat 1-3 to start new cycle but at reversed polarity.

Anyways, sorry for the long rambling on but again, for us OUers, flyback, flyback and more flyback is one of our main concerns and finding a way to "really" tackle this problem "without getting resistors and capacitors involved" would be a major step forward and truly worth the added effort here and I think it could be done with a total of six IRF640s or IRF840s. Two positive, two deviation, two negative.

I have done some major pulsing with my FG directly on the gate of IRF840s and they have held up very well compared to the 640s.

All the best.

wattsup

[gotoluc]

Excellent post wattsup

much of what you shared was also going through my mind yesterday and felt very tired, so I went for a nap and asked for the Universal Consciousness to help me receive an answer during the rest. I woke up with an answer or maybe part of an answer. Part of the answer is to use HV capacitors by charging and discharging at the resonating frequency using transistors and diodes as an isolation between the source and the resonating coil. Neither would be connected at the same time.

I can maybe make a drawing if you need. let me know.

Thanks for sharing

Luc

[najman100]

To solve the holes in fingernails problem, I'll wear gloves. lol

@najman100

Thanks for your great work. I will get the parts ASAP once I have the circuit in hand.

@gotoluc

Hey man don't give up.

Such mishaps must be expected and are part of the discovery process. I expected it sooner or later and only hope I did not jinx the project with my post to @groundloop. But it was only made to keep this project as real as possible in expecting the unexpected from flyback which can or cannot be the main payback to source.

@groundloop

I have taken the last few days and looked over (with my limited EE-IQ) the spec sheets for the major components and looking at your last diagram to see how they work together. I now understand why you are sending the negative of the 50vdc feed into the source side of the two right IRF640's. If you were to use the same sides as the left two IRF640's you would have required two n-channel and two p-channels, and this way you can use four of the same. Did I catch that one OK. If two n and two p channels were used, would it provide other benefits?

Now here is my main concern. From the left you have the 12vdc positive that is supplying power to pin 1's of the two IR2103s, and it is also going through the two MUR1100E diodes then to the pin 8s. Then on each of the pin 8s you have this 100uf capacitor that is going to the pulsed output leads that go to the coils. So my worry again is the flyback that will hit that capacitor and enter into the pin 8s. So the only barrier between the steady 12vdc side and the pulsed 50vdc pulsed side with flyback is those two 100uF capacitors. Are these capacitors really required in the circuit. Since the circuit is relying on the 4013 to provide the regulated impulses from the FG giving the two IR2013s their pulse cadence, why would you need this feedback pin 8 on a capacitor? And, if this has to be, is it  possible to put two small isolating coils between the capacitor and where it is connected on the other side of the resistor at pin 6. This would ensure no potential flyback to pin 8.

Then there are those two 22K resistors that are going from pin 7 to the pulsed outputs. Again, flyback voltages can be pretty high when pulsing with 50vdc and these resistors are the only thing between it and the pin 7 and again my question is do these resistors really have to be there. Does the pin 7 have to touch the outputs going to the coils?

In my mind, the reverse polarity outputs should have nothing on them other then the IRF640s that are doing the switching. Then from the two left IRF640s I see two other IRF640s that should be in parallel to the two left IRF640 that are doing the positive switching. The two added IRF640s can switch one flyback diode that is then connected "directly" back to the source of 50vdc.

If I was rubbing an old lamp (hmm why not a tube) and out popped an EE Genie that granted me one wish, I would ask for a switching system that could do as follows as my ideal EE pulsing and flyback control circuit.

1) positive, negative and flyback deviation connected at on pulse to outputs.
2) negative disconnected while the positive is still connected with the flyback deviation.
3) positive and flyback deviation disconnected
Repeat 1-3 to start new cycle but at reversed polarity.

Anyways, sorry for the long rambling on but again, for us OUers, flyback, flyback and more flyback is one of our main concerns and finding a way to "really" tackle this problem "without getting resistors and capacitors involved" would be a major step forward and truly worth the added effort here and I think it could be done with a total of six IRF640s or IRF840s. Two positive, two deviation, two negative.

I have done some major pulsing with my FG directly on the gate of IRF840s and they have held up very well compared to the 640s.

All the best.

wattsup

Thank you Wattsup
if you already built the first design then continue testing and exploring till you blow up your components it was a preliminary design ,designed by GRoundloop to Gotoluc .the new design should be better .

Najman100

[gotoluc]

@everyone,

below is a copy of a post I did at the Energetic Forum Resonance topic. I am posting it here since it may contain some information that may help some here also.

Luc

Quote:
Originally Posted by cody

Luc,
I believe i understand what your saying, but a dc polarity reversal on each pulse is ac(alternates from + to -), correct. Im sorry i should have told you what im using here. Im not using a conventional frequency generator that puts out ac sign and square wave. I am using my own pwm i built that does creat a pure dc(one polarity) pulse. In direct opposition to what you said, im basicly taking a transistor and chopping up dc, and it does work, im finding resonance in the coils. My point i was trying to convey in my previous post was in response to your post about a resonance you were getting in your secondary coil after your pulse turned off(your scope picture). I am seeing that within my primary coil on my scope after my pulse turns off. I was just wondering if you were seeing that in your setup as well. After thinking about it, im sure you are because thats basicly what this resonance this is right, the coil continues to oscillate after the pulse. Im sorry if it was a dumb question, i just got a scope for christmas and have been excited about seeing whats been going on in the coil. Please let me know if im missing something here.

Quote Reply Post by Luc

Humm,

To answer your question, no you will not get any of this in your Primary coil. When my coil is at resonance no matter what kind of wave form goes in it turns to Sine Wave and stays this way. You are getting those results because you are using chopped DC. I tested coils with chopped DC over a year ago and never got any good results... but as soon as I used flipped DC I experienced the effects of resonance when using a capacitor in series with square wave.

If need be I can do a video demo to show the difference between chopped DC and flipped polarity DC. For me they give very different results.

From my test at this time I can show that when the coil reaches resonance those flipped DC square waves turn to Sine Wave in the coil.

Here is a video demo I did for you and others to demonstrate this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJQvqTpBdiQ

If you wish for me to do a video demo to confirm the above please don't hesitate to ask.

Back to the scope shots. From the video you can see that a resonating primary is very energetic with a small voltage and next to no amps by using a micro bulb in series to prove that. I can tell you it gets wild with higher voltage and still no amps and if we have a tuned antenna (secondary) within the area of the coil... that tuned antenna will also resonate some extra beats and that is where we can collect some extra energy I believe That was the reason to show the scope shot of the extra activity of the secondary antenna coil. If you want I can also do a scope shot of the primary coil and secondary to show the primary stay as sine wave and at the same beat of the signal generators square wave input.

At this point I don't have my secondary antenna tuned. I'm trying to learn how to do this. Hope to have it done soon and I'll show the results once done.

I'm sorry if anything that I have shared is already known to you but it may help other at the same time.

Thanks for sharing

Luc

[TinselKoala]

Have you tried an air variable across the secondary, like I showed in that video? By varying the capacitance you will vary the resonant frequency of the coil...It works frighteningly well for me.
I have no problem lighting up a NE-2 neon bulb with just one lead connected to the coil and another to me--that must mean at least 90 volts. And I can produce a continuous spark across inside this little transient spark gap thingie I found today...by fine-tuning the secondary with a variable capacitor...without even having the second lead hooked up !?!

The thing about flipped polarity DC vs. chopped DC will depend on your capacitance and frequency. At some frequencies there isn't much difference. At others the flipped polarity DC will act like AC (which it really is) and the chopped DC will act like AC with a DC offset (which it really is.)
Coils, by the process of induction, will generally always smooth out an inductive impulse to a sine wave response. But a square wave or pulse in the primary, with as short a rise time as possible, will produce the best inductive response in the secondary. The secondary's response will be sinusoidal even when the primary is pulsed with a square wave or rapid-rise pulse.
Usually.