Stator and Rotor how to make help needed!

[clflyguy]

Infringer-
  I see you started another thread, I will be glad to help you but the questions I asked in the prior thread still apply..
What size mags, how many, and what voltage battery bank?
  If you insist on the plastic barrel vawt then you are pretty much limiting yourself to 12 volts and about a 12" dia.
set of rotors and as Michelinho told you, you MUST put metal behind your mags to get any decent power at all. Preferably metal as
thick as your magnets are- there should be no magnetism available on the opposite side of the rotor thickness.
  You stated earlier that you wanted "maximal power" from this machine, well, you are already working against yourself by
wanting to go with a barrel vawt and wood magnet rotors.
  Also, Otherpower is NOT all about the money, I've been there for about 6 years and the stuff they sell is for people who are not
able/inclined/resourceful/intelligent enough to DIY. I have no doubt that folks on this board can help you, but if you want to build a wind
turbine, and build it efficiently and successfully then Otherpower is the site you need to be devoting your reading time to.
  Again, if harsh sounding then I apologize, but at this point re-inventing the wheel is completely unnecessary. If you would prefer that I not respond to your posts any longer, simply say so in your next post and I will respect it.       -CLFLYGUY

[infringer]

Are you crazy I don't take anything as a low blow here you have been nothing but helpful...

But explain to me why it is improper to use plastic?

Doesn't aluminum foil serve as a good shield for magnets as I have seen in several videos.

My magnets are http://www.magnet4less.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_5&products_id=53 145lbs of pull force.

I am not trying to reinvent the wheel at all just trying to make the thing a bit lighter... So it turns more easily why do you believe that making it lighter in weight will lower the power production ? I don't understand that unless of course we are going to use a gearbox?

Please explain further obviously you know something about wind turbines as you explain I do want the proper research done before the investment as well that is always a must ...

Well I guess I shouldn't have said that otherpower is all about money we know that is not entirely true. They capitalize off of lazy people which is where most revenue is generated from... But they have been a favorite site of mine for the past couple years... And they go above and beyond any store indeed they share everything with you free of charge!!!

So I retract my previous statement and sub it with this one my apologies that may have been a bit harsh on my part actually...

I would like to get ahold of a steam engine and build that wood burning generator as well someday down the road...

Anyhow take care hope to hear from you soon.

I am curious as to where you are going  mentally with this design as well...
Maybe there is a flaw in not using metal but I always thought that steel never really severed as a good shielding for magnets anyways...

[clflyguy]

OK, sorry...I was getting the impression you didn't want to hear it..

  The reason for mild steel magnet rotor plates is that they complete the flux path of each of the magnets, it makes the magnetic field that passes over the coils several times stronger
than any other material.

Aluminum foil as a magnetic shielding material, hmm.. wait a sec, let me check..... nope, just folded 2 square feet of alcoas best into a 1-1/4"x1-1/4" square  x 5/32" thick pad and my 1"dia x 1/4"
neo's just laughed at it. Lots of videos on the web have been faked- some of them are quite well done.

OK, I just went to the mag website that you provided and saw that you have chosen excellent magnets, did you get 24 of them?

Weight- at this point you really have no cause to worry about weight, a few pounds one way or the other is not going to make any difference and this machine has to be
physically strong anyway just to survive in its natural environment- the wind, sometimes LOTS of it. As for starting easily, if your blades (or drums) are balanced well
and your bearings are aligned properly, not binding and are well lubricated then it will take no more wind to start a heavy machine than it will to start a light one.

Gearbox? Not on a vawt unless it's a BIG one, at least 3 barrels high.. Vawts make the best torque but swept area is still swept area, and you have good strong magnets....

Have you decided on a system voltage yet? I'm afraid that my mental image of what you want to build is on hold until I know a couple more things about what you want to do...

Tell me about your site, any height restrictions? In town, rural?      Lots of stuff goes into the mix and I do want to see you get the best you can for your area/price range/abilities.


Let me know....   

[Michelinho]

Hi Infringer and Cityguy,

Infringer, a heavy rotor helps smooth out the rotation specially when there is wind gusts, same as a heavy flywheel on the old one cylinder farm motors without it you would break a crankshaft in no time. It helps to protect the blades on a windmill from constant speed up and down. It also serves to maximize your magnetic flux where it counts and that is where your coils sit plus it smooths out your power curve.

Cityguy probably knows more than both of us together, so I may chime in from time to time but all I know, I have told you... I never made a windmill or studied much about it since I cannot install one that would be higher than my fence. I will make one this summer but it will be 4 to 5 feet high and sit on my rear porch and complement my motor/charger that is in the design stage now and solar panels. I am also planing a stationary bike small charger for my wife who likes to pedal while watching her soaps. So why not charge my many UPS batteries in front of the TV.

Take care both,

Michel

[infringer]

OK, sorry...I was getting the impression you didn't want to hear it..

  The reason for mild steel magnet rotor plates is that they complete the flux path of each of the magnets, it makes the magnetic field that passes over the coils several times stronger
than any other material.

Aluminum foil as a magnetic shielding material, hmm.. wait a sec, let me check..... nope, just folded 2 square feet of alcoas best into a 1-1/4"x1-1/4" square  x 5/32" thick pad and my 1"dia x 1/4"
neo's just laughed at it. Lots of videos on the web have been faked- some of them are quite well done.

OK, I just went to the mag website that you provided and saw that you have chosen excellent magnets, did you get 24 of them?

Weight- at this point you really have no cause to worry about weight, a few pounds one way or the other is not going to make any difference and this machine has to be
physically strong anyway just to survive in its natural environment- the wind, sometimes LOTS of it. As for starting easily, if your blades (or drums) are balanced well
and your bearings are aligned properly, not binding and are well lubricated then it will take no more wind to start a heavy machine than it will to start a light one.

Gearbox? Not on a vawt unless it's a BIG one, at least 3 barrels high.. Vawts make the best torque but swept area is still swept area, and you have good strong magnets....

Have you decided on a system voltage yet? I'm afraid that my mental image of what you want to build is on hold until I know a couple more things about what you want to do...

Tell me about your site, any height restrictions? In town, rural?      Lots of stuff goes into the mix and I do want to see you get the best you can for your area/price range/abilities.


Let me know....   

My place of residence is countryside there is a lot of pines but there is a lot of wind actually...
There is trees sparsely but for the most part there is about 4 acres of open area or more...

They are tall jack pines so lots of wind flows even through the woods...

Hrmmm shame I was hoping to get away from the typical honking metal disc simply cause stuff like that costs cash people don't like to give that stuff away and its like friggin treasure hunting with my population so it'd be better just to buy the stuff most likely ....

I want the cheapest setup I can find I am willing to spend cash on approxamately 3 good mk deka batteries or something for now sealed gel batteries obviously car batteries are no good for this stuff.

So this is what I know but I guess my plan is to start small and grow like the majority of us I'd prefer to start with one battery and work my way up personally just so I don't do overkill... But I wanna make sure my turbine can generate some good power and if need be I will build more and more untill I have the powa!

I guess I wanna do a mix of solar and wind and eventually be off grid but that is a long term goal.

29kwh per day avg this year so I have already cut down quite a bit in power consumption so if I read that right I use about 1.3kw every hour...

It is not half bad but if I could achive my goal I will be a happy camper eventually though I will need to grid tie everything as well which will result in losses so if I could achive say 3kw over the next few years that will be excellent indeed!

It may be cheaper to say purchase something ready made and just get it over with like a 5kw wind turbine I really don't know but I like the hands on experience as well though so ready made is kinda a last resort plus my budget is not thousands and thousands either...

I'll be lucky to have a thousand dollars total thanks to tax time...

Anyhow thanks again for the excellent info!!! Just keep with me I really need someone with your persistance to help me see this through do not give up on me...

Suggestions for these metal pieces would be nice as far as magnets I may need to order some more...
Barrels are kinda in the works a friend has a couple but they got some chemical in them that eats right through metal so that is rather scary to mess with that ...

I believe I may have about 10 -12 of them magnets if I recall correct... I may even have to purchase a tool or two as well to get the job done along the way but I have most of what I should need.

as far as welding I think I may have to outsource that to a good friend of mine he has access to a nice wire feed welder.
He'll do it for next to nothing I am sure anyhow thats about the max of my knowladge. Thats where I am the beginning stages the planning stages so what you help me with here is critical and will decide my purchases and where to get stuff the cheapest and what will be required.

Maybe I could have 3 rotors and stators one on the top one in the middle and one on the bottom. I don't want to do over kill either by causing lack of start up do to lack of torque this is why I was semi worried about the weight issue start up it takes more starting power the heavier you design the thing.