Thane Heins Perepiteia Replications

[CRANKYpants]

Mr. T,

you have to include the reactive-power-part because to drive this part needs energy also.

The "total real power" to drive the total "appearant power" must be compared with the real output on the load.

I made a suggestion how to measure this with a diffrerent driver-circuit not using the grid.

So again my question : How are the figures you measure concerning the appearant power-input in the primary ?

Regards

Kator01

HERE IS THE RESPONSE TO YOUR POST USING THE PYTHAGOREAN THEOREM TO DOUBLE CHECK THE NUMBERS - WHICH CAME FROM A DEMO I GAVE TODAY.

T

These are the numbers from today:

Input Voltage = 120.1 V
Input Current = 0.003 A
Scope Observed Power Factor = 0.309 or 72 degrees

True Primary Power = V x I x cos72
                             = 120.1 x 0.003 x .309
                             = 0.111 W

Reactive Primary Power = V x I x sin72
                                   = 120,1 x 0.003 x .951
                                   = 0.343 VAr

Apparent Primary Power = V x I
                                           = 120.1 x 0.003
                                        = 0.36 VA

CHECK

Apparent Primary Power = (square root of) Real Power^2 + Reactive Power^2
                                        = (square root of) 0,111^2 + 0.343^2
                                        = 0.36 VA

[broli]

Thane some people here would like you to put all kind of shows up. You don't need to be a genius to understand power factors and how you can EASILY get them from a scope. But apparently you have to repeat the same thing 1000 times before it gets through to them. You have shown enough times that you get more out that in. So why don't we all cut the crap and replicate it already.

The main discussion should be about how to get as much people as possible to replicate it. Where to find the cheapest materials to do so by sharing links or ebay offers.

[Kator01]

Broli,

if you want to adress me, please do so in a direct way. If you think I just want to keep people  busy here with unqualified remarks you should get back to my post #518 on page 52,  read and understand first what I am talking about. Then you should read Thanes first answer #563 on page 57.

Now the point is this :

The mere assumption that driving the primary coil of a transformer with no load at the secondary is for free is simply wrong. It is similar to a free wheeling very low-frequency-oscillator with no extra capacitor but with the coil-capacitance acting instead so  that you have a parallel LC-Tank.
Driving such an LC-Tank in idle-mode needs energy otherwise any LC-tank would just run on its own. If you can present such a circuit here I will be the first to buy it you have my word.
I hope you get this point now.

Driving  an high- or low-frequency LC-tank makes no difference in this regard. The only difference with hf-tanks is that they radiate em-waves which needs still more energy.

In a low-frequency-tank with an iron-core involved you need power to overcome the magnetization-losses even, if you are idle mode.

In order to find the correct number of this minimum-necessary power we need a 50 hz oscillator which is independent of the grid, for example a wien-oscillator with a push-pull-output-stage. Only with such a setup we will be able to measure the real  input. Period

I will not repeat myself.

Regards

Kator01

[broli]

Broli,

if you want to adress me, please do so in a direct way. If you think I just want to keep people  busy here with unqualified remarks you should get back to my post #518 on page 52,  read and understand first what I am talking about. Then you should read Thanes first answer #563 on page 57.

Now the point is this :

The mere assumption that driving the primary coil of a transformer with no load at the secondary is for free is simply wrong. It is similar to a free wheeling very low-frequency-oscillator with no extra capacitor but with the coil-capacitance acting instead so  that you have a parallel LC-Tank.
Driving such an LC-Tank in idle-mode needs energy otherwise any LC-tank would just run on its own. If you can present such a circuit here I will be the first to buy it you have my word.
I hope you get this point now.

Driving  an high- or low-frequency LC-tank makes no difference in this regard. The only difference with hf-tanks is that they radiate em-waves which needs still more energy.

In a low-frequency-tank with an iron-core involved you need power to overcome the magnetization-losses even, if you are idle mode.

In order to find the correct number of this minimum-necessary power we need a 50 hz oscillator which is independent of the grid, for example a wien-oscillator with a push-pull-output-stage. Only with such a setup we will be able to measure the real  input. Period

I will not repeat myself.

Regards

Kator01

Yes, uhuh,I see.... but maybe you have dodged the fact that the output has a resistive load. I will not repeat myself.

[CRANKYpants]

Thane some people here would like you to put all kind of shows up.

I AM AFRAID I DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS STATEMENT?

You don't need to be a genius to understand power factors and how you can EASILY get them from a scope. But apparently you have to repeat the same thing 1000 times before it gets through to them.

I HAVE TO REPEAT IT 1000 TIMES TO MYSELF BEFORE I GET IT OR AT LEAST START TO TRUST THAT IT MAY BE REAL...

You have shown enough times that you get more out that in. So why don't we all cut the crap and replicate it already.

AS FAR AS I KNOW AT LEAST 4 PEOPLE ARE NOW DOING IT INCLUDING A TRANSFORMER COMPANY AND SOON TWO.

The main discussion should be about how to get as much people as possible to replicate it. Where to find the cheapest materials to do so by sharing links or ebay offers.

IN A FEW DAYS WE SHOULD HAVE A FACTORY MADE CORE WITH OR WITHOUT WINDINGS SO ANYBODY THAT WANTS ONE CAN HAVE IT.

T