Where will the energy come from, to run a Magnet Motor?

[IronShell3d]

Hi IronShell3d

Well when you explain it this way there is no energy gain, and agree a energy transfer from one to other, then back again. When you said the internal temperature of ferrite raises as it approches the magnet is this time frame in micro seconds or even nano seconds. As I see it almost like a flip/flop gate the B/H curve. you seem to know allot and thanks for explaining.

Wayne

Hi Wayne,

Not quite.

With proper ferrite selection and operating temperature, it is possible to reverse the normal BH curve of the ferrite and get more inward attraction than exiting drawback as the slightly heated ferrite drops it's B field strength upon the exit due to hysteresis loss heating on the inward and outward legs and the selected ferrite's negative temp to permeability / B field effect. Normally it is the other way around.

Then you have a self running motor powered by the shell 3d electrons in the magnet.

IronShell3d

[magpower]

Hi Wayne,

Not quite.

With proper ferrite selection and operating temperature, it is possible to reverse the normal BH curve of the ferrite and get more inward attraction than exiting drawback as the slightly heated ferrite drops it's B field strength upon the exit due to hysteresis loss heating on the inward and outward legs and the selected ferrite's negative temp to permeability / B field effect. Normally it is the other way around.

Then you have a self running motor powered by the shell 3d electrons in the magnet.

IronShell3d

IronShell3d

Sounds like a tricky thing to do, with just the right temp. I have some 1/2" rod ferrite from my radio days, but really don't know type. Will try some simple test and get back.

Thks
Wayne

[IronShell3d]

IronShell3d

Sounds like a tricky thing to do, with just the right temp. I have some 1/2" rod ferrite from my radio days, but really don't know type. Will try some simple test and get back.

Thks
Wayne

Hi Wayne,

It is tricky as you need to use the Curie effect to reverse the normal BH curve. Most ferrites have a Curie temp of around 300 deg C. You need to get a ferrite with a room temperature Curie temp and a permeability peak (climb and drop) that is VERY sharp.

Then I suggest you need to use a strong Neo which can pump a lot of H field into the ferrite to get as much internal ferrite heating as you can. Also generally the lower the permeability the more hysteresis loss there is and the more hysteresis loss heating that will occur. You need to design the magnetic circuit to saturate the ferrite at the ferrites closest approach so as to get the max BH curve movement and of course the max internal heating.

IronShell3d

[IronShell3d]

IronShell3d

Sounds like a tricky thing to do, with just the right temp. I have some 1/2" rod ferrite from my radio days, but really don't know type. Will try some simple test and get back.

Thks
Wayne

Hi Wayne,

I suggest checking out this link may help you on your quest for a ferrite with a sharp room temperature Curie effect:

http://www.nec-tokin.com/english/product/temperature_sensor/operation_make.html

Note one version of their Thermal Reed Switch will switch on and off over a 1 deg C temp change. Now that is a very sharp / large permeability change over 1 deg C!

Their break type Thermal Reed Switch may be a better source of ferrite material to pay with:

http://www.nec-tokin.com/english/product/temperature_sensor/operation_break.html

Using this ferrite material you at least know what the Curie temp is and what operating temp to target.

They may even provide the BH curve for their material.

IronShell3d

[newbie123]

Hi NewBie123,

You understand the H field is amp turns/meter? You know what that means? The energy source is the moving and spinning 4 unpaired shell 3d electrons in every aligned Iron atom in the magnet. We are not talking B field here.

IronShell3d

Well, since H fields  are defined as:
H = B/μ0 - M

you are talking about B fields indirectly since it is considered more fundamental than H fields (The units are actually A/m  not ampere-turn/meter, btw)

Regardless, I'm still not sure what you're claiming exactly...  You keep saying "there is no free lunch" wrt energy, though, which I guess is true (if you don't think fusion energy is FE)...

Are you saying the heat generated from hysteresis loss in magnets  is sort of like "Free energy" that can be extracted from iron? You're kind of dancing around your point(s)  without getting into specifics, imo.



edit:
If you really want to show that you're onto something  you should  perform a simple experiment then publish  (or post here) if you get any  interesting results...   Maybe you can  achieve some interesting results by exploiting hysteresis (?), but I have serious doubts...