I see an economic diasater coming...

[ATT]

there could be a trigger in the Gov't trying to confiscate all American Weapons

Lee, I appreciate your insight and, yes, that would raise some hackles, probably nationwide.

And of course, any significant backlash would provide exactly the excuse needed to institute marshall law.

We all know where it goes from there.

In terms of historical records, the leaders of past empires weren't generally setting the best example

Much of the example set by these heads of state is followed to this day by our present governments, so point well taken.

predictions have indicated that there is hope for the smart, resilient and adaptable person

Hope so...that's been the case so far.

We need to re-establish our agricultural, construction, and manufacturing base

California huh? That makes three of us, I think Lee is in SF, I'm close to PS.

Like you, I think there's a pretty wide gap between what we 'need' and what's really going to happen.

As you pointed out:
* Agricultural is going more and more 3rd world.
* California is in it's 3rd (?) year of drought, farmers are losing market.
* Construction is on-hold except for public-works and Fed projects.
* Manufacturing is in China and points-east.
* Our cost of living is too high to for our labor-figure to compete with offshore producers/manufacturers.

So here's the conundrum: whether we like it or not, we exist in a Global economy. That ties all the major producers and consumers together. So when we have a downturn here in the states, the effects are telegraphed world-wide.

Speculators (including the investment banks, insurance underwriters, mutual funds/pensions/401s who drive the stocks) were essentially unregulated and allowed to run 'wide open' in the interest of 'free market' profiteering.

Here in the states, our investment gurus came up with the 'mortgage backed security' scam, it returned huge profits, the rest of the world bought-in to it and it blew-up in everybody's face.

So the worlds largest consumer now has less money to 'consume' with, China sells less stuff to us (so they buy less stuff), Europe's trade decreases, the world lays-off it's labor force and we're all stuck in 'idle' while waiting for economic anarchy.

Now let's look at the 'bailout'.

The money went to the big banks and to AIG (who underwrites the big banks), and I haven't forgotten the auto industry, but that's a separate issue.

This was supposed to loosen credit so businesses could operate and, hopefully, save businesses from failing so not as many workers would be affected and consumption (not to mention, taxes) wouldn't be impacted as drastically as it would have been otherwise.

The result: the banks took the money and ran with it, bought other banks and assets up, strengthened their positions and gave out huge bonuses...credit didn't loosen up enough to help the businesses that really needed it.

Small banks failed, businesses either failed or downsized as much as possible just to survive, some ended up turning a profit in the ensuing months, but none significantly increased their labor force...mass lay-offs continued.

The market gradually rebounded (bear rally), Wall Street is making money but on the street, there's no jobs on the horizon.

So how long can Wall Street 'suck the cream out of the twinky' before somebody notices that we -still- aren't consuming because there's no money on the street?

The answer is: They don't care. The 'American Plan' of investment economics is all about 'immediate' gains, here and now, 'I got mine'.

When investment houses talk about 'the long term' what they mean is 'Tomarrow' (but they definitely want -you- in it for as long as they can get you).

So, with all that under our belt, knowing that this is sort of like the eye of the hurricane (a brief calm spot before re-entering the malestrom), what do you think a guy should do?

Lee says 'watch and wait', be resourceful, use your street-smarts to make it through.

I say make a plan, get you resources together and shoot for sustainable independence.

What's your take on an individual solution, d3?

Tony

[d3adp00l]

The fact is we live in a forced global economy, and it ruins everyones economy. Lets take a look,

Mexico and US. It would seem like a good idea for us to get cheap labor, and for them to get better wages right? Well your wrong, bandage up that bleeding heart, and hand cuff that capitalist, here's why.

When mexicans come here, they get paid more than if they lived down there, well they take their earnings down there. So whereas before they were making the same as everyone else, now they have 10 times as much, and can afford the things they want. Here is where the problem starts. A businessman down there sees that these few have more than everyone else, well being the good little greed monger, I mean capitalist that he is, he cranks his prices up, out of the reach of the normal people, but still within reach of the migrant worker. Well now the mex business man is making the same or more than before, and dealing with many fewer transactions, he can layoff a few employees due to lower volume, and he is still making bank.

It artifically blows the market up.


On the other side of the border, Us business men hire lower paid mexicans, which means they can undercut their competion, and still make as much as befre, and with less to compete against, their business volume goes up, and they are making even more. This devalues the local labor to a point where they can't afford the costs of living. And the market price of goods stays high.

It artifically cuts the general worker off at the knees.


You can not mix economies, it benefits only a very few, and hurts everyone else. remember 1% is the upper class, 5% is the upper middle class, the middle class down to lower class are 74% of the population, poor are 20%, So the bulk of the people are hurt by this outsourcing nonsense. But the upper 6% make out like bandits.

FACT: Only raw materials should be allowed to cross borders of economies, anything that can be made inside an economy should be made in that economy.

Fact: diversification and cellular comparments are good and stable, one fails it doesn't effect the others, which means the others can help the failed one.

FACT: They know these things, and they know it will fail, they do this so that they can convince us to make a one world economy under their control. its really very simple and stupid. People who say they can't see this, are the ones who benefit from it.

[the_big_m_in_ok]

Lee, I appreciate your insight and, yes, that would raise some hackles, probably nationwide.  ...   And of course, any significant backlash would provide exactly the excuse needed to institute marshall law.  ...  Much of the example set by these heads of state is followed to this day by our present governments, so point well taken.

Exactly.  They don't necessarily who they step on, as long as they get what they want.

California huh? That makes three of us, I think Lee is in SF, (I, Lee, am in San Francisco)
I'm close to PS. (where's 'PS'?)

Like you, I think there's a pretty wide gap between what we 'need' and what's really going to happen.

I've clearly seen the cycles of history and the "boom-and-bust" sets of scenarios have always played out about the same way practically every time.

...So here's the conundrum: whether we like it or not, we exist in a Global economy. That ties all the major producers and consumers together. So when we have a downturn here in the states, the effects are telegraphed world-wide.  ...  So the worlds largest consumer now has less money to 'consume' with, China sells less stuff to us (so they buy less stuff), Europe's trade decreases, the world lays-off it's labor force and we're all stuck in 'idle' while waiting for economic anarchy.

Now it's a two-way street:
On PBS, Bill Moyer's Show, a guest economist told him the Chinese consumers were such a big player on the world scene, that if the Chinese consumer doesn't step up and replace the American consumer as a buying force to shore up the Chinese economy, that economy will suffer badly without any further influence from us.
As you may have said or implied, I also assert the ripple effect of this will be a money drought and a worsening recession---or depression with total collapse.

--Lee

[onthecuttingedge2005]

Hi d3.

Irish, German, Russian, Romanian, Italian, Roman, Indian, Mexican, Eskimoian, Turkish, British, French, Chinese, Mung, Vietnamese, Korean, African, Latino, you name it that is what makes up America. I know I left out some ethnics but please forgive my laziness of writing the entire list.

there is no such thing as America being a 'white mans' country, America is a mixing pot and has always been a mixing pot.

If Hispanics want to live in America then give them the chance, educate them and let them share our justice and freedom.

Racism coined the term, aliens.

Eskimo, Indians and Mexican were here in America before everyone else so who are the real aliens?

Just a German American who cares.
Jerry

[the_big_m_in_ok]

Hi d3.

Irish, German, Russian, Romanian, Italian, Roman, Indian, Mexican, Eskimoian, Turkish, British, French, Chinese, Mung, Vietnamese, Korean, African, Latino, you name it that is what makes up America. I know I left out some ethnics but please forgive my laziness of writing the entire list.

there is no such thing as America being a 'white mans' country, America is a mixing pot and has always been a mixing pot.

If Hispanics want to live in America then give them the chance, educate them and let them share our justice and freedom.

Racism coined the term, aliens.

Just a German American who cares.
Jerry

Hey Jerry,
Since I'm a descendant of many of the ethnic groups on your list(going back to ancient times), I'd say from personal experience that the average person is mostly interested in living in peace and putting food on the table under a roof over his head.
It's a few ignorant! individuals who impose their will against others.  For that, they get what they deserve. (read: heavy karma)

BTW, my mother's maternal grandmother was primarily German.  Her father was a full German American whose ancestors were pious farmers from the Pfalz, in Germany.

--Lee