Magnet motor in Argentina

[hartiberlin]

Yes, Gonzo,
from what I can understand the Spanish forum people are not very polite, I don?t know
why, cause Omnibus was asking very polite. Maybe they don?t like the English language over there
or they are mostly kids there, I don?t know.
So let?s try to find the video elsewhere and maybe concentrate on a FEMM or Maxwell3D simulation
of the forces at play in this this device, so we can tell, if this thing can really work...
Maybe
Jason can try a quick FEMM simulation cause he knows this program very well, if he has got some
free time..

Otherwise, why would the inventor go through so many prototypes, if it would not work...
I guess he was bought out by the Argentina military black projects already and has stopped
communicating with the Internet or he was bought out by a big company, who wants to
develop a better product in total silence.... we will see, but at least we now know the
function principle from all the data gathered in the last days.

Regards, Stefan.

[Omnibus]

Notice what ridiculous arguments against Torbay?s motor are presented in this link, at that, by people devoted to fighting pseudoscience: http://www.asalup.org/content/view/154/1/ . Here is an excerpt translated with the help of BabelFish:

?Anyone with a vague idea of the history of science would know that in many occasions swindlers have appeared alleging to have invented a ?perpetual motion machine". After these innumerable deceits, one should think that we should be more cautious and when one declares to have produced "free energy" some alarms should start sounding. Nothing of that sort happened to the "magnetic motor", invented by Walter Torbay in Mar del Plata, Argentina; when Channel 8 of Mar del Plata as well as several newspapers, radios and tv-channels made an announcement impelled by unprecedented nationalism and exitismo (?).?

Also

?What hasn?t been said in the media is that to magnetize the material comes at a cost. And this cost must be necessarily greater than the energy gain produced by the equipment, unless the "magnetic motor" breaks the laws of the thermodynamics.?

This ?criticism? is methodologically incorrect. No matter what the truth about the reality of Torbay?s claims is denouncing these claims on the basis of previous failures is unfounded. Unfounded is also to require from an experiment necessarily to obey the laws of thermodynamics. The correct argument works in just the opposite way. The laws of thermodynamics have been accepted only because they have not been shown to be violated by any experiment. If an experiment appears, however, which violates the laws of thermodynamics then it is the findings from the experiment that would take precedence. Our understanding of thermodynamics has to change in such a case. This is not to say that Torbay?s claims are necessarily real. They may not be and still the mentioned methodological principle will continue to hold.

Also, never in any thermodynamic or other scientific analyses of energy balance in a machine is the energy to make the machine taken into account.

Therefore, the above critical ?arguments? must be discarded. There may or may not be other arguments against Torbay?s claims but those specific ?arguments?, mentioned above, should necessarily be discarded.

I strongly encouraged the writer of the text in the link to visit personally Torbay and verify whether the motor is indeed self-sustaining. This is not difficult to be done. All the writer has to do is see the rotor turning all by itself for, say, an hour without anyone touching it and without applying external energy. I also asked him to help me get in touch with the inventor so that I can also make an independent assessment of the claim that the motor is self-sustaining.

[Omnibus]

I guess he was bought out by the Argentina military black projects already and has stopped
communicating with the Internet or he was bought out by a big company, who wants to
develop a better product in total silence....

This would be a real tragedy if that were the case. Similar thoughts cross my mind too and I hope I?m wrong.

Also, if this is such a fraud, as some are desperately trying to prove, why are they hiding the inventor? Why don?t they allow us to go see him and his device and verify that it isn?t working. I for one, aside from the claims of the inventor, want to verify also the claims of the critics that it?s a non-working device.

[Omnibus]

I?m trying to find who the correspondents of the Argentinean newspapers accredited in New York are as well as their addresses and phone numbers. I can?t believe that there wouldn?t be at least correspondents of La Nacion and Clarin, the two largest newspapers in Argentina. So far I?m unable to locate them. If anyone has more info in this respect let me know. I?d like to call them or visit them in person on Monday. Any other ideas are also welcome.

[sbassi]

Notice what ridiculous arguments against Torbay?s motor are presented in this link, at that, by people devoted to fighting pseudoscience: http://www.asalup.org/content/view/154/1/ . Here is an excerpt translated with the help of BabelFish:

Hello,

I am the author of such news in ASALUP website. We are working on an article with lot of new information.
Since I received a similar question on the website contact address, I will post my reply here.

On 3/25/06, XXX <xxx@XXX.net> wrote:
> 1) Torbay's motor violates the laws of thermodynamics (especially the first principle). I'd like to remind you, however, that the laws of thermodynamics are only accepted because the experiment so far hasn't shown otherwise. Therefore, the role of the experiment is the primary one, not the laws of thermodynamics. I don't know the details in this particular case and whether it is at all viable. What I'm objecting to is the methodology you apply in assessing its viability. If it happens so that Torbay's motor works it would require correction of our understanding of the laws of Nature and not vice versa. Claiming that we already have the final knowledge of these laws is quite presumptuous.
>

[SB]
From a strict formal point of view, you are right. A fact is a fact,
even if it goes against a law of nature as we know it. But we didn't
argue that Walter's magnetic engine is impossible because of
thermodynamic laws, we said that Walter's magnetic engine does violate
thermodynamic laws, so this should set off some alarms on the mass
media before publish this story. I also said that if this were true,
he wouldn't be working on his basement, because this is so important
that would lead him to the Nobel price.  We also believe that
extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. His is showing
his "miraculous device" in TV before doing it in any respectable
scientific journal or scientific society.
He also claimed that he rejected a $350M offer to sell it, this is
also very suspicious.
As far as I know, he is paying local electric utility company instead
of using his putative invention.
So we are not objecting it based only on the fact that it is against
well established laws of nature.


> 2) Torbay hasn't included the cost of the materials when making the energy balance. This requirement, however, is superfluous. Never in any of the thermodynamic or any other scientific analyses of systems is the energy spent to make the machines taken into account. Thus, this objection to Torbay's invention should also be discounted.
>

[SB]
You may be right here. To be honest, after I wrote this several
members of ASALUP pointed this out. We are evaluating this claim with
an electric engineer, so in a couple of days we well back it up or
take it down (with an apologize if it turns to be wrong). But a bad
debunking will not make his claim true.


> I would encourage you very much to visit the inventor and personally try to verify as to whether his motor is indeed self-sustaining. This will not take much effort. The only thing you need to do is to observe the rotor turning for, say, an hour without anybody touching it and without any energy being spent from the outside.
>

[SB]
I tried to contact him, I leave a message in his answering machine but
didn't replied. I did ID myself as an ASALUP member, so this could
discourage him to call back.


> I would appreciate it very much if you could help me get in touch with Mr. Torbay and let him know that I would also like to independently verify his claims either by visiting him or by him sending his motor to me. My address is:
>

I will call him again with your offer. We have a member in the same
city and I am only 40 miles away from him, so I could arrange a demo,
but it is up to him to accept a visit.


> I look forward to hearing from you and hope that Mr. Torbay's device will get a fair assessment based on the principles of science and not based on emotions or other considerations.
>

[SB]
I fully agree with you. But to test a device based on science, we need
cooperation from the one makes the claim.
In ASALUP we are working in another article that will be published
shortly. Please stay tunned you will get more information.

Best regards,
SB.

This week we will have a copy of the patent. In Argentina the patent office is very old fashionated, you have to go there to request a patent, pay a fee and the wait 15 days, that is way we will have it this week. The patent will be published in our website (after scanning).