Hi Everyone,
This arrived in my inbox today and I thought you would all like to know about it...
Here is an excerpt from this page:
http://www.latenightinthemidlands.com/events/exclusive-this-with-change
"Mister X will reveal his real identify and all the technical details of his invention that is already running his own car and truck on nothing but water! He has put over 8500 miles on his Dodge Truck and he's running the truck on nothing but water! Mister X will also discuss how similar technology can power a house completely off the grid. He has given me permission to release the information in this article for now until he can talk directly to the people next Wednesday with many exciting developments.
The system Mister X will release to the world lets you fill up your tank with 98% water and 2% fuel. He says the fuel is only used to keep moisture from hurting some of the components that were not designed to be exposed to water all the time. Filling up with just 2% fuel keeps the system from being corroded by water. Eventually it will be 100% water powered as components in engines and fuel systems are changed out to not degrade being exposed to water."
Time will (very quickly) tell if its true or not...
RM :)
mister x = fast freddy?
Thanks guys,
The alarm bells were going off for me, I was sure I had read about this before.
Looks like that radio show is about to be taken for a ride.
RM :)
Thanks RM
Will be interesting to see ,I came across plans on Ebay a few weeks ago [24.95]that seemed to be a fast Eddie take off?[spoke of his dodge truck and 3500 miles]
I think it was a half Fast Eddie actually [smaller MPG claims:=].
Cuatro De Mayo ,,,,,HUH?
Thanks
Chet
Yes the Dodge truck really made me go ??? sounds familiar...
I also found it quite amusing that anyone would claim that a 2% addition of fuel by volume to water would persuade the iron that it was not acceptable to go rusty anymore. Thats a good one ;D
RM :)
Quote from: evolvingape on April 29, 2011, 08:55:33 PM
Yes the Dodge truck really made me go ??? sounds familiar...
I also found it quite amusing that anyone would claim that a 2% addition of fuel by volume to water would persuade the iron that it was not acceptable to go rusty anymore. Thats a good one ;D
RM :)
Like yourself I find this whole thing dubious at best and suspect that May 4 will come and go without happenstance.
I have watched some of FF's videos and I dont think he is terribly sharp. On top of that, there are so many reasons to doubt this whole thing. However, before I go further I will say this - There IS a way to convert water into fuel (and Im not talking HHO) but you need the assistance of a couple small elements.
Anyway back to this stupid announcement.
1) Why would anyone that CLAIMS (as in the article) to have had 10 attempts on their life give the 'enemy' a heads up as to when they are going to release this type of info? This is just dumb on a whole new level. If you were smart you would tell nobody and then once you have made up your mind to release, just submit a prerecorded DVD or whatever to MULTIPLE news outlets along with blogs etc that can't be all hamstrung at once. Anything other than that is just either a hoax or someone that wants there 15 minutes of fame.
2) As evolvingape points out, the 2% fuel mix for stopping rust might be bulldust. IF rust were the true issue, you can install lubrication injection systems similar to what they put in LPG conversions which is so much more efficient.
3) What is it with people claiming they have been "offered 1 billion dollars by oil companies" to stay quiet!!??? Is this the magic number that all the crackpots quote?? LOL Seems to me quite a few conspiracy theories have this similar thread running through the story. Supposedly Stan Meyer was offered this before he was 'killed'. Was he killed?? Do any of us know? He himself could have been a deluded narcicist with pride issues whose only downfall was his own arrogance and bad genetics. Lets face it...there is so much crap written on the internet that people just lap up as fact EVEN AFTER it has been stated as hoax by the actual perpetrator!
4 Getting back to this claim of Mister X having his life nearly taken 10 times. Do you really think big OIL is that incompetent and a silly little chemical like MMS is going to save your life from a true poisoning threat? OMG...that is the most stupid thing of all and just tells you where this guys thinking is at! If bad people want you dead, you are dead!
At the very least, this Mister X, Fast Freddy or whatever his name is has delusions of grandeur and dwells far too much reading through the vast pages of conspiracy theory to be found on the internet (as many here do).
The facts in EVERYTHING are not that hard to spot. You just have to be willing to step back, suspect everybody and let the EVIDENCE provide the answer. This is what true science does. Sure, you might go in with a theory but if the tests and subsequent EVIDENCE shows something completely opposite to what your theory was...you have to be humble and say "OK, I was wrong and now the evidence is leading me this way". This is what Ockhams Razor does and it provides you a clearcut path to the TRUTH (eventually).
Unfortunately humility is not something that is prevalent in the scientific community because everyone wants to be right about their theory especially when many of them broadcast it as 'fact' before they even know themselves. Then later when they are proven wrong by others or themselves, they cannot stomach it and will spin any ludicrous crap to excuse why their theory is still valid. Grow up!!! Science does not advance this way.
One prime example is the pulse motor. That particular inventor has been stating for decades things about the 'radiant event' and how his motors provide the key to OU. He will hone in on the RADIANT EVENT and talk at length about its huge voltage with lack of current and all the magical reasons this 'spike' rings through the universe to excite the aether and provide OU. What freaking bulldust!!!!
I have done the tests, I have built the machine along with my own and the only difference I inserted in the whole process was honesty and humility.
I do not dispute that the pulse motor is not efficient OR that there isnt the APPEARANCE of OU because yes, you can charge more batteries. However what the inventor DOESNT tell everyone is the TRUE science not because it is anything fabulous but because he would have to change his story and his pride would be hurt after spouting shite for decades.
All the 'radiant spike' does is charge batteries EFFICIENTLY and prevent sulfation. Yes this is an advance but DO NOT state what is is NOT!! The radiant spike is only PART of the whole proccess just like round tires make a car go faster than square ones. However the OU 'fuel' comes from the last place people are looking because the magician has been talking guff and misdirecting your attention elsewhere.
The 'fuel' is the WATER within the battery itself!
As we all know, there is tremendous power in water. All the pulse motor does is run a circuit efficiently with the aid of flywheel and magnets so that the source battery is not drained at a rate greater than the load bank. HOWEVER the true fuel is always being consumed from somewhere and this is in the water inside the battery between the charge and discharge cycles.
How do I KNOW this??? I conduct experiments, eradicate each variable and what remains is the TRUTH. For example, why can't you charge capacitors and run a closed cycle bank with a pulse motor (at the same rate as batteries)??? If the OU was truly because of the radiant event alone and the 'fuel' was the aether outside the battery, THEN this should work with capacitors!!! But NO!! You see it with almost every 'OU device'. "Errr yeh we gotta have the battery bank as a buffer". Rubbish! If you needed a buffer, a supecap bank would be good enough. They either dont know that the water is providing the energy or they wont admit it because they would rather say something sexy like "look at me and this amazing 'time pumping universal flux capacitor' circuit I have built and what it does"! What a wank...this is not science...it is vanity!
I wonder how many people have ever questioned the inventor "how often he has to top up his batteries?". No...because they are all too busy looking at the circuit and listening to what comes out of his mouth.
THEN, when someone gets too close to the truth and questions something the 'inventor' doesnt like, he will say things like "People and humanity arent ready for my wonderful technology yet" meanwhile selling their wares on the internet for thousands of dollars but trying to act like humanitarians. What hypocrisy!
Believe nothing but the evidence people and the truth will set you free!
E-Goose
Mister X was even offered $1 billion in cash from an oil producing country to walk away from this invention! But through his strong belief that God wants him to release this technology to the people he refused to sell out and made sure that this time the technology would not be suppressed in any way
America, Bible Belt, God and $$$ = BS
Is it a 2004 dodge truck?
I've got the video that once was removed from yt, and the comments saved to a text file.
Running a car on water : Water expands through igniting by a plasma spark gap releasing more energy than was put in.
Attachment : Arc-liberated chemical energy exceeds electrical input energy
I still don't understand why this works with plain electrolysis, but on the german forum a user did loop back his circuit, so it seem to be possible.
Hi E goose look at this :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMVtGxSYdhU&feature=related
Quote from: evolvingape on April 29, 2011, 08:55:33 PM
Yes the Dodge truck really made me go ??? sounds familiar...
I also found it quite amusing that anyone would claim that a 2% addition of fuel by volume to water would persuade the iron that it was not acceptable to go rusty anymore. Thats a good one ;D
RM :)
There is no way you are going to mix water and fuel in a tank.
He probably means he burns HC fuel at certain times for the reasons
quoted. LikeFF
:S:MarkSCoffman
Quote from: guruji on April 30, 2011, 07:30:03 AM
Hi E goose look at this :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMVtGxSYdhU&feature=related
Guruji
Not sure what your point is??? I have seen that youtube clip before and it demonstrates my point exactly which was - - - YOU CANNOT GET THE SAME 'OVERUNITY' CHARGING WITH CAPS AS YOU CAN WITH LEAD CELL BATTERIES!
Maybe you thought I said you can't run the circuit on Caps at all. Of course you can. I was talking about close looping it and experiencing the same gains as you do with batteries, not semantics on wiring.
Did you listen to what the guy in the clip says? - -that it will eventually stop with the capacitors.
Hence NO OU of circuit or motor!
E-Goose
This story has just hit RMN with a new hype video but no extra details really. Guess we all gotta wait till Wednesday to find out if it is FF or not...
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=203494
RM :)
ElectricGoose, Can you expand a bit on this statement: "There IS a way to convert water into fuel (and Im not talking HHO) but you need the assistance of a couple small elements."
Yes, the guys in Germany were able to close the loop in their water fueled small engine demo video but nobody else can do what they can do. Their success can not be duplicated because they are the only ones who have the secret and everybody else is just too stupid to even come close.
As soon as E-goose releases his water into fuel secrets, we can all build our own systems to run our cars with and we can stop paying attention to people claiming to be doing what the German inventors have already done.
Besides, running a car on water is really not overunity. The water is the fuel and just like crude oil, it must be processed before it can be burned in an ICE. If it runs out of fuel, it stops. Overunity would mean it could self power itself because the energy being generated by the device is greater than the energy put in at the start.
I can build a car that runs on paper but as soon as the paper is burned, it will stop also. No overunity there either.
I want everybody to forget about the talk radio show announcement. Don’t even waste your time going there. It's fake just like wrestling. I will go there on behalf of all of you and if it’s real, I’ll report back to you guys here. In fact, it would probably be better if the author of this thread just deleted it so they can save other members from wasting their time so they can get back to building their motors and joule thieves that one day may be the answer.
Oscar
How is the water processed?
Quote from: FittySense on April 30, 2011, 08:30:45 PM
How is the water processed?
I suspect it would be called electrolysis but don't quote me on that. If you want to know the real way to turn water into fuel, you must as E-goose. He is the one who knows how to do this with two small elements.
What people are really missing here is that we need oil and it will go down in price in 3 to 4 years if you would just wait patiently enough. Oil was even used thousands of years ago before automobiles to fuel lamps with. Lets save our water for human consumption and fish to live off of.
Oscar
Hi Oscar,
In my opinion the terms efficiency and overunity are often misinterpreted. I agree with you that in order to be overunity or >100% efficient then more power is needed to be produced at the output than is input to power the process.
However, running out of fuel does not mean that a device is not overunity. All it does mean is that the fuel is finite and not infinite.
For example, running a car on water would be an example of overunity because the power produced at the output rotary moment would exceed the power input to process the fuel on demand to create said rotary moment. The engine would eventually stop when it consumes its finite fuel supply.
The difference with an infinite fuel supply, such as energy from the vacuum or zero point energy, is that the fuel will not be consumed within the operating life of the device, and therefore can be considered an infinite fuel in respect to that device even if the fuel is not actually infinite itself in quantity.
So, in my opinion there is a very significant difference between the terms “overunity and >100% efficiency†and “rate of consumption of fuelâ€.
I also will not delete this thread. I feel it is important that people knowledgeable in these subjects are able to comment to provide perspective. If everyone was ignorant of the facts, and of what is and is not currently possible, then many more innocent people will become victims to scams. They will be fleeced of resources by predators who prey on peoples hope of change from current suffering.
RM :)
Quote from: evolvingape on April 30, 2011, 08:53:21 PM
I also will not delete this thread. I feel it is important that people knowledgeable in these subjects are able to comment to provide perspective. If everyone was ignorant of the facts, and of what is and is not currently possible, then many more innocent people will become victims to scams. They will be fleeced of resources by predators who prey on peoples hope of change from current suffering.
RM :)
I just feel that you are helping a scammer advertise his scam so he can scam more people out of their money.
And about overunity, I disagree. Using your own definition, a steam engine is also overunity because it utilizes energy on demand (wood or coal for example) to run an engine until the fuel runs out.
Oscar
The big tipoff to this particular scam is when the narrator claims 'Mr X' was assaulted by a bioweapon and used the narrator's 'cure' to heal himself (conveniently sold on the website provided).
These people need to get a life.
Hi Oscar,
If I was providing a platform to advertise the technology and promoting it as a solution, such as the alternative media is doing, then yes I would be helping a scammer to scam more people out of their money.
However, I have not done that. I simply posted the information here and allowed the people more knowledgeable about this than me to comment with their opinion, ahead of the event.
I fail to see how a thread that highlights something as a scam is helping a scammer to scam people.
And about overunity, I do not think you disagree with me, I think you did not understand what I said, or, I did not explain what I meant clearly enough. A perception issue perhaps.
A steam engine is in my opinion overunity because as you quite rightly point out it utilises energy on demand from a heat source. In your example wood or coal.
However I feel that there is a subtle difference between you supplying the energy to fuel the process and the universe supplying the energy to fuel the process.
In the example of wood or coal, a fuel in a combustible form, it must only be collected to be utilised. If you wanted to you could even use a magnifying glass to begin the combustion process and power the ignition via solar input.
The difference is that no processing of the raw material is necessary, and therefore the cost to you in providing the input energy to power the process is zero. (Ignoring the losses incurred from physically collecting the fuel, ie calories expended).
If you were to use the sun and a parabolic mirror to provide the input power to the steam engine then the only costs you would personally incur would be in setting up the infrastructure, ie making the parabolic dish and boiler.
The energy from the sun would continue to come for ever, for free, to you. And therefore, whatever you got out of the steam engines rotary moment would be a net gain to you. There of course would be a cost but it is not paid by you, it is paid by whomever pays the suns electricity bill :)
So, we are actually talking about two completely different processes here. In one we are taking a raw material (water) and processing it via manipulation of energy into a fuel (which has a cost to you in input energy to the system), and in the other we are taking a raw material (wood, coal, sunlight) that has already been processed, and therefore requires no input processing cost from you.
So, yes. In my opinion a steam engine is overunity. But it depends on perspective. If you take something you get for free and convert it into a movement then that movement is free to you. If you have to process it first before it can be made to move something then there is a necessary input cost from you.
Does that help explain what I mean ?
RM :)
Click on this Link to read more about it. It looks like the real thing!!!
http://pesn.com/2011/05/9501821_10x_Attempted_Murder_Survivor_Mr_X_to_Reveal_Water_Fuel_Secret/
.
Quote from: e2matrix on April 30, 2011, 05:34:27 PM
ElectricGoose, Can you expand a bit on this statement: "There IS a way to convert water into fuel (and Im not talking HHO) but you need the assistance of a couple small elements."
i doubt he will expand on it. he beats his chest like this on occasion, and every time he has been asked to back it up he falls silent. regardless, whatever it is he is going about, it's not OU...
Quote from: WilbyInebriated on May 02, 2011, 04:59:18 AM
i doubt he will expand on it. he beats his chest like this on occasion, and every time he has been asked to back it up he falls silent. regardless, whatever it is he is going about, it's not OU...
Aww, poor Wilby, don't be bitter man!
Youre right about two things. 1) I'm not going to expand on it and 2) Despite you using water as a fuel, its NOT OU because it gets CONSUMED (unless you capture the exhaust - ie: recombined vapor) and close loop it).
However, what is IS - A non polluting source of energy.
Anyhoo, you have a good day.
E-Goose
We will no doubt find out more on May the fourth .All i can say is , May the Fourth be with you !
Quote from: ElectricGoose on May 02, 2011, 06:01:45 AM
2) Despite you using water as a fuel, its NOT OU because it gets CONSUMED (unless you capture the exhaust - ie: recombined vapor) and close loop it)
This is just about the most perfect example you could wish for of someone propagating an opinion when they have not the slightest idea of what they are talking about.
When discussing overunity there are three possibilities:
Underunity
This means that the power output of a system, when the losses from energy conversion of the processes involved have been subtracted, is less than the power input to the system. Commonly this is described as <100% efficient and there is a net loss of energy at the output compared to the input.
Unity
This means that the power output of a system, when the losses have been subtracted, equals the power input to the system. This is commonly described as 100% efficient, however, interestingly a system at 100% efficiency is actually producing more energy than was input, but there is no net gain at the output because the gain equals the losses and they cancel.
Overunity
This means that the power output of a system, when the losses have been subtracted, exceeds the power input to the system. This is commonly described as >100% efficient and there is a net gain in energy available at the output. This net gain is what is referred to as free energy.
So, we can see from this that overunity has absolutely nothing to do with rate of consumption of fuel. So what does rate of consumption of fuel mean ?
Finite Fuel
A fuel can be considered finite when it is consumed completely within a device before the device fails in normal operation. This will cause the device to cease operation.
Infinite Fuel
A fuel can be considered infinite in respect to a device if it can not be consumed within the operational life time of the device, and therefore, the device will continue to operate indefinitely until another factor causes it to cease functioning.
Rate of Consumption of Fuel
The rate at which a fuel is consumed in a device process.
So, to imply that a water fuelled device can become overunity by close looping the system and capturing the exhaust gasses so that recombination into fuel can occur is complete nonsense.
The rate of consumption of the fuel will remain at a constant for a given value of work extracted from the system and a given rate of losses. Fuel energy is converted from one form to another in this process.
What actually will occur is that because the quantity of fuel is finite and defined by the size of the tank that holds it, the device will operate until it has consumed this fuel. If recombination in a closed loop is occurring then the fuel quantity available to be utilised by the device will increase but will not become infinite. Effectively you can consider this to be the same as topping up the tank at a rate that never exceeds the maximum available quantity of fuel at time zero. Run time will however be extended.
The difference with an infinite fuel, such as zero point energy, is that the fuel is sourced from the environment. What this means is that the device operating on this fuel actually exists within the fuel tank itself, or, has constant access to it. Because the operating device has an operational life that is less than the available fuel to power it, the fuel can be considered infinite in respect to this device, even if the fuel is not itself infinite in quantity.
So lets look at some examples to illustrate these points:
A solar powered rotary steam engine takes energy radiated from the sun and converts it to heat. This heat is converted to steam pressure, and this energy is then used in a controlled release to create the output rotary moment via manipulation of the working fluid.
Instead of sunlight, wood or coal can be used. Both of these are fuels in a combustible form and were processed primarily by the energy of sunlight. No input of energy from the user is required in order to create a state in which these fuels can be utilised to power a device.
The process of operation of the Nature powered steam rotary engine will be underunity in consideration of losses incurred in manipulation of the energy conversions taking place, ie <100% efficient. However, the energy input by the user is zero, and there is a net gain of energy at the output to the user. So, even though the device operates at underunity efficiency, there is a net gain of energy at the output to the user. Therefore the user has gained free energy, and the cost has been paid by the universe.
So, free energy devices do exist and have existed for a very long time. The underunity efficiency measurement is irrelevant to the actual end user in respect to gaining free energy, however, the efficiency of the device will determine the amount of free energy available to be utilised by the end user.
Now lets look at a steam powered rotary engine that requires the user to input energy to power the process. If we were to use say electricity to power a heating element to create the steam pressure we need to operate the device, there will be a cost in electricity prime mover.
The efficiency of the device will be underunity due to the losses involved in energy conversion of the processes + the cost of the initial input energy provided by the user. This will be subtracted from the output energy of the system and there will be a net loss in energy to the end user.
The reason that there is so much interest in the water powered device category is that water when split into its atomic states of hydrogen and oxygen has a huge potential energy value in comparison to its mass. It is also very easy to release this energy by a simple prime mover ignition source. Water in a liquid state has a relatively high density in comparison to HHO and is relatively compact and therefore a lot of it can be carried in the fuel tank. The rate of consumption of the HHO and the water are not the same as they have two different volume constants at atmospheric pressure.
The ability to process fuel is what this is all about. This is the reason that steam engines were phased out and oil based engines were phased in. Oil is hard to get and energy intensive to process, therefore, it is not a fuel source that the common man can utilise to power a device. If water could be used instead then a fuel that is easy to get and available to power a device 24/7/365 would be in the hands of the common man.
The key point is that because the relative energy content of water in its atomic state has such a high energy value there is a real possibility for the common man to process this fuel on demand to power a device. Combine this with the very low rate of consumption of the water in its natural liquid state at atmospheric pressure and you have a fuel that can power a device for a very long time before that fuel needs to be replenished.
The challenge is to design a system that can process this fuel on demand where the losses and input energy to the system are less than the energy gained at the output of the system. This would mean that for a system that operates with 10% losses then 110% energy would need to be liberated in order to achieve measurable unity at 100% system output.
As soon as you reach 111% energy liberation in the operation of the system then you have gained 1% free energy, above and beyond what it requires to operate that system at equilibrium.
So we can already get free energy from fuel that does not require processing but this fuel either requires collection or is only available in certain parts of the world (ie deserts for sunlight) or is only available for a limited time each day. The sun does not shine at night.
On demand processing of the fuel in an overunity system is the aim of the energy freedom game in respect to water powered devices.
RM :)
RM
Not that you didn't do just fine,But if your gonna cook a goose
I like this one,
http://allrecipes.com//Recipe/super-crispy-roasted-goose/Detail.aspx
CRISPY!!
Chet
@Evolving Ape
I don't know why you got up on your high horse and took exception to my post. I actually agree with most of what you say and I am quite well aware of what OU means so calm down.
Of course there is always power expenditure to run a device whether it be in the form of friction (if we are looking at a gravity wheel), or electrical current on a circuit.
I was abbreviated in my statement about OU and 'consumption' (which I dont like the word anyway) because in reality NOTHING ever gets consumed, it only APPEARS to be consumed (like burning a piece of wood). 'Conversion' is much more appropriate.
Not that I have to explain anything to you wankers, but the reason CONSUMPTION is important to me (no matter how small) is - What is the point of making a OU energy device if for instance you can only run it on something like plutonium or another expensive power source that is polluting? What are the potential waste products of the device??
I trusted I wouldnt have to expand on it without morons becoming upset because this isnt the real issue here anyway.
@Ramset - Grow up and go back to your dreams of TPU shit. If you really knew the meaning of OU, rather than posting crapulent remarks, you would sit quiet for a few moments and not even bother with a TPU because smashing together 3 frequencies and pouring in more energy to a device than you can get out does not OU make.
HHMMMMMmmm..............
We are most definately not birds of a feather ..
To see you in the same thread as Evolvingape ,a completely "selfless "
Humanitarian who spends countless hours researching analyzing etc and brings his Vast knowledge to Us Open Source ,No strings attached..............
Really puts you in a bad light!
You claim to have a secret ,your like a little kid that "taunts" the others!
Seems to be your only contribution at this forum?
Your Goose is Cooked Bud, You just don't know it yet!
Get used to the heat!!
Chet
Hi E-Goose,
I took exception to your post because your post was demonstrably wrong. It does not do the OU movement any favours at all to post information you know to be incorrect, especially for the “interested kids†with curious minds just beginning to explore this subject.
If your post was abbreviated incorrectly then it was you who did that because I took the quote directly from your post, not a reproduction by someone else. I do agree with you that conversion is a much more accurate term than consumption.
I also agree with you that a power source that pollutes is neither desirable or necessary. In my opinion anyone pursuing a polluting technology for OU is wasting their time and resources, as it will become obsolete the moment a clean energy source becomes open source.
There is also no need to swear at me or call me a moron. If you had expanded on your original incorrect abbreviation in the first place, with what you actually meant, then you could have avoided upsetting yourself.
So what do you say we forget about our disagreement and get back on topic, you got an opinion on whether Mr X = FF or not ?
RM :)
Oh, this IS Fast Freddy in the third degree here. No doubt in my mind. Let’s do a little review, shall we?
• The vehicle is a Dodge.
• There have been multiple attempts made on the inventor’s life.
• God is only with the inventor who has the exclusive and only relationship with Him.
• The oil people won’t like the technology.
• An ungodly amount of cash money has been offered to shelve the technology.
• Morgan Freeman and Keanna Reaves already made a movie based on his story call “Chain Reactionâ€.
• The inventor has NOT had a reputable third party verify his claims.
• The inventor has NOT and never will release the plans open source which already makes him a liar.
• The inventor is his own worst enemy as it was him who destroyed (deleted) his own YouTube account thus suppressing his OWN technology all by himself.
• Mr. X also had a father who worked with the top engineer of a major defense contractor (Hughes).
Now concerning the energy consumption debate; Remember that energy can NOT be created or destroyed. It simply changes form.
Oscar
I am keeping an open mind about Mr X. I must admit though that there are far too many similarities with previous history of FF to not make it a 50/50 bet.
The guy over at project.nsearch might not even know if it was FF if he is using a different name. The guys over at PesWiki have provided a little balance to the debate, perhaps to give the guy a chance if he is not FF and the claims are true, cannot blame them for that.
I hope some people who know what FF sounds like are listening to the radio show May 4th and can ring in with questions, that might solve the mystery, unless he is using a voice changer then we will just get Darth Vader ;D
I suppose the other alternative is that the show gets cancelled for some reason.
Time will tell...
RM :)
Quote from: evolvingape on May 02, 2011, 09:18:05 PM
Hi E-Goose,
I took exception to your post because your post was demonstrably wrong. It does not do the OU movement any favours at all to post information you know to be incorrect, especially for the “interested kids†with curious minds just beginning to explore this subject.
If your post was abbreviated incorrectly then it was you who did that because I took the quote directly from your post, not a reproduction by someone else. I do agree with you that conversion is a much more accurate term than consumption.
I also agree with you that a power source that pollutes is neither desirable or necessary. In my opinion anyone pursuing a polluting technology for OU is wasting their time and resources, as it will become obsolete the moment a clean energy source becomes open source.
There is also no need to swear at me or call me a moron. If you had expanded on your original incorrect abbreviation in the first place, with what you actually meant, then you could have avoided upsetting yourself.
So what do you say we forget about our disagreement and get back on topic, you got an opinion on whether Mr X = FF or not ?
RM :)
@evolving ape
Forgive my heated exchange. I clarified the issue and should have left it at that. Apologies.
I have no idea who Mr X is even though it does 'sound' like FF. I prefer not to venture into subjective things that won't lead to a productive outcome and only state fact from what I know from experiments or can back up.
I guess we will all find out soon enough whom it is. Whomever it is....its a lot of showboating to announce it ahead of time and doesnt really add credence to any death threats claims. Hardly being inconspicious wouldnt you agree?
i'm starting to wonder if electric goose isn't fast freddy. ;) what with these repeated claims of ou on a regular basis that are never substantiated...
Yes I completely agree with you. I find it very suspicious that a "free energy" inventor with a working system would choose to release it in this way. Looks very much like a publicity stunt to me.
Would be much more sensible to build say a hundred prototypes and mail them out to interested parties such as universities and fellow inventors along with manufacturers small and large. As long as there was a good installation video with it there would be no problem replicating the technology.
Anything other than that looks to me like a fishing trip for $
RM :)
Hi Everyone,
Latest email from Glenn at project.nsearch has hit my email box so I have reproduced it for you all below. It now appears that Mister X has become a doctor ?
Confusingly the email begins saying that we are less than 12 hours away from the radio show. The email arrived in my Inbox at 05:58 BST May 4th. It is now 12:07 BST at posting of this message.
Here is a time clock showing current EST:
http://www.world-time-zones.org/zones/eastern-standard-time.htm
The latest email does not mention the time zone but the original one did and stated 10pm EST May 4th. So does anyone know when this show is actually beginning ? I am confused.
RM :)
Email begins:
We are less than 12 hours from breaking one of the biggest stories ever - that we no longer need to use oil for fuel! I want to welcome all the great new members I'm seeing on the site. Remember to use that LIKE button on all videos and Blogs you want to share with others on Facebook. That's what helps us grow! Thank you!
We'll be talking to Doctor X very soon now about how he ran his Dodge truck over 8500 miles on nothing but water. He'll be talk about many other incredible things too!
I'd like for all of you to spread the word of the interview by sharing this video on every website and every social network you are a member of. Post it everywhere and send it to your entire email list if you have one! This video has done very well for spreading the word and if everybody pushes it hard tomorrow it will be INCREDIBLE!
In your posts tell them to please SHARE the video everywhere too so the powers that be can't suppress it anymore! This technology belongs to the people and I need all our members to push it HARD out there! I've been waiting to do a story like this my entire life and I'm proud that we will be doing it soon!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBt30jHHR5s
Get your questions ready and call in when we ask for callers. You'll be able to listen to the show live at 10pm on Wednesday May 4th by clicking on the play button in the Ustream player at the top left of our home page at
www.project.nsearch.com
Keep up the great work everybody!
Glenn
Visit Project Nsearch at: http://www.project.nsearch.com/?xg_source=msg_mes_network
Found this on the Nsearch-Page
this is the picture from nsearch:
http://www.project.nsearch.com/profiles/blogs/water-replaces-gasoline
this is the picture von FF on Peswiki so i think too its definately Fast freddy.
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:_Hydrogen_Hog_by_Future_Energy_Concepts%2C_Inc.
Excellent work heduobacht!
Its exactly the same setup in both pictures, with the pictures being taken at slightly different times. You can tell this from the angles of the many connection wires being identical.
This raises some serious questions...
Does Glenn over at project.nsearch know this is Fast Freddy, and if so does he know FF's history ?
The other question I have is quite serious in it's implications...
I am speculating that the PESWiki article by Hank Mills with Sterling D Allan was partly written in response to the fact that the OU community had twigged it is Fast Freddy. They also state that they do not think it is FF because he is heavily involved in manufacturing 250,000 units to be hitting the marketplace as soon as June 2011. They also mention that Mister X is going to give FF the market opening to come out with his full system plans sooner than he had planned too.
So what's going on here ?
Has PESWiki been aware all along that this is FF technology ? Have they deliberately set out to deceive us ? If so, why is Sterling D Allan allowing his good name to be used in this way ???
These are very serious developments with very serious implications. It is now imperative to verify that this technology works as claimed and has been independently tested and proven before a single cent leaves your bank account.
I am quite troubled by the picture that is beginning to present itself here. Let us hope that the technology works as it is claimed to do.
RM :)
This is also troubling too...
http://pesn.com/2011/05/9501821_10x_Attempted_Murder_Survivor_Mr_X_to_Reveal_Water_Fuel_Secret/
Top right corner of the article in the bright yellow box:
May 2 Update: Frederick Wells says he is not "Mr X"
And the picture discovered on nsearch by heduobacht that is obviously FF technology was posted by Glenn Canady on May 4th, 2011 at 01:00am
So, is Mr X an associate of FF, a necessary move considering FF's reputation ?
RM :)
RM
No matter what ,Fast Freddy ,Or Halfast Freddy!
It will be interesting to see what comes out with this in the next day or so!
Chet
Quote from: evolvingape on May 04, 2011, 07:08:27 AM
Email begins:
...............In your posts tell them to please SHARE the video everywhere too so the powers that be can't suppress it anymore! ..........
Evolving ape
This is not attack on you, just a general comment on the email you were sent.
I just think this is getting more stupid by the minute, especially the comment in the email above. What exactly is this guy suggesting we all share? A silly video of himself barely holding it together which says nothing about technology. What exactly then arent the 'powers that be' supposed to be unable to suppress anymore? A talkshow host on a video that looks a little excited like he is going to pee his pants? LOL.
I go back to my original statement. This Dr X, FF or whatever must be dumb as hammers IF he really and truly had attempts on his life and gives this much lead time 'warning' to the enemy of when he is going to release the technology.
This is a real showboating debacle and he certainly can't release schematics over the air now can he! IF he does show up at the radio station, It will be nothing but hours of blather, conspiracy talk, "Look at me and what I have done" so he gets a good ego stroking.
Today will come and go and the public will be none the wiser.
Hi Chet,
Yes this is definitely going to be interesting. I work on the principle that forewarned is forearmed.
The more information we have before the radio show later today the better our questions can be to get to the truth of the matter.
What concerns me is that serious attempts have been made to hide the fact that this is FF technology. This cat is now out of the bag before the event. It would have been much better to be honest and say that FF technology has been independently tested and proven to work and is now being released.
It is the attempted deception by all parties involved that disturbs me.
RM :)
Hi E-Goose,
Yes I see your point about the email, it definitely has an element of media hype about it designed to increase traffic to his website.
Now that the picture of the system has been posted Mr X is going to have great difficulty in denying that he is involved with FF technology. It will be interesting to see if he attempts to claim this.
What really troubles me though is that PESWiki is actively involved. This is not a development I had anticipated.
This show is going to be good if we have lots of informed callers to ask questions!
RM :)
RM
I would just like some focus!
If its real?, A Scam?
Just some Focus,Then we can decide how to spend our hard earned resources?
This community has probably had the most experience with Scammers than any other!
Just show us ,Tell Us, what your Doing "Whoever you are".
The rest will be "Self Evident".
Chet
Hi Chet,
Yes I know what you mean about focus.
I will tell you what my position is on this knowing what we now know so far.
This upcoming radio show technology release has been sensationalised from day 1. They are claiming that they have basically solved the water to fuel processing problem.
They have also created an air of mystery with Mr X and the death threats story etc.
PESWiki seem to have some insider knowledge about all this and have floated the information that 250,000 units are going to hit the marketplace in June.
Now, 250,000 units cannot be made overnight. I would expect the first 10,000 to have already been made at least so that they have time to go through quality control before they are available to be bought.
The problem is that it was also stated that these units would be a more primitive design which leads me to believe they are actually just Hydrogen Hogs by a different name.
The reason I am troubled is that it appears at this point that the radio show is designed to make the listener believe that they will be getting an overunity free energy technology, but in actual fact all they will be able to buy is a basic HHO cell that improves fuel mileage. A lot of energy has also been spent on attempting to deceive the public that FF technology is not involved at all.
So the question has to be asked, what cut are all parties involved going to be getting from the sale of the product ?
I hope all this is completely unfounded and the claims are true and will be verified on the radio show tonight, however, I must admit its not looking good at this stage for all involved.
RM :)
Have a look at some of the comments on Freddy's Cell page at PESWiki:
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:_Hydrogen_Hog_by_Future_Energy_Concepts%2C_Inc.
January 23, 2011
It has been brought to our attention that 1) Freddy has gotten his cell working, and 2) many people are coming in to license the technology.
This is supposed to be a confidential development. They don't want media coverage. "Sq1 makes no statement or claims related to this matter at all."
February 3, 2011
The following report came from someone who has been helping Freddy, via another associate:
"He has some doubts. He says Fred is a real nice guy, but why lead on these people if the results are not final? He says the truck will run for 5 minutes really good; then the pressure goes down and the car stalls and you pull over. Then you wait until it gets back up to 80 lbs of pressure, and by that time the battery is dead."
February 4, 2011
Last August Freddy Wells rocked the free energy world with his claim to have run a pickup truck on nothing but water. He has joined with Square1 Energy to refine the technology an prepare it for the market. They recently held a conference call to probe the level of interest in an introductory, experimenter's product.
March 21, 2011
aiming for "250,000 units by June"
April 18, 2011
Timm Finfrock wrote:
Nicholasville KY â€" In response to the volume of inquiries received regarding the Hydrogen Hog and Fred Wells, Square1 Energy has determined it necessary to issue the following statement.
"We are currently not partnering with Fred Wells and Future Energy Concepts or developing/distributing any products related to the Hydrogen Hog. Anyone with questions regarding the Hydrogen Hog, V6, or other Future Energy Concepts technologies should contact Mr. Wells directly."
Interesting...
RM :)
We'll find out tonight whats going on not a big deal who's right or wrong some how the truth will come out. I myself find it a little troubling that every one's so willing to exploit water like this?
Burn water? I know its nonpolluting and water vapors are a byproduct of the process but some is burned and gone forever. It might take a long time for it to effect the water supply but some time in the distant future it will and we cant live with out water.
It might make a good bridge energy source temporarily but long term it's too important to exploit like this. There are already water supply problems now so lets burn it in our cars too, that'll help. Sure some one will eventually come up with some sort of simple true overunity device that we can exploit and get off water but will it happen before we irreversibly damage our water supply? I like drinking the stuff more than petroleum.
It will be great to have a cheap way to drive around but at what cost to the Planet? I'm really not a green freak or anything but it does worry me. Kind of a 1 step forward 2 steps back kind of thing.
Pete
Pete,
Do you have a "toilet" in your house [1-5 gals a flush]?
The amount of energy available from water is Stupifying,And if The Goose [electric] would ever share "the Golden egg"?,
we could get started!
Chet
How much water is on Earth ?
http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/earth/geophysics/question157.htm
http://ga.water.usgs.gov/edu/earthhowmuch.html
A lot :)
Water is created through recombination of Hydrogen and Oxygen.
We use the power in water to turn the deserts green, we then plant a massive rainforest where the desert used to be and this will produce lots of Oxygen in a process powered by sunlight.
We use natural Hydrogen production from algae also powered by sunlight.
http://www.oilgae.com/algae/pro/hyd/hyd.html
This will then recombine and effectively convert sunlight into water via natural biological processes.
We will not run out of water, we will end up with more than we started with using this process, and at the same time have a truly sustainable clean fuel.
I have no idea why I keep coming across comments all over the place from people claiming we cannot use water as an energy source because we will run out of it.
RM :)
I hope your right RM, in many places water sort ages are happening right now.Here in Fla. we have water restrictions most winters and thats very common in many state. We have to keep digging our well deeper and deeper to get to the water table and salt water intrusion is a problem. Much of the water on this planet is salt water, I don't think thats appropriate for this energy production and we cant drink it or use it to water our crops with out getting the salt out of it and we aren't very efficient at doing that now.
I'll probably be the first to line my car up to convert it but that doesn't make it right, I just am concerned about the long term effects.
If we're running short of water now it seems logical to think that it will get worse if we start burning it. I'm sure all those studies are correct and water generation might increase in other arias on the planet but here we'll just be siphoning off what we have and I guess produce it somewhere els. You think we'll go to war over oil just think what we'll do for water?
Pete
Quote from: evolvingape on May 04, 2011, 11:50:08 AM
I have no idea why I keep coming across comments all over the place from people claiming we cannot use water as an energy source because we will run out of it.
I like scaring these sorts of people even more by telling them; water is only 0.05% of the total mass of the planet, then tell them, in certain circumstances it can change into di-hydrogen monoxide. ::)
Great way to get kids to turn the tap off when brushing their teeth.
;D
@vonwolf a by-product of FE would be desalination plants springing up everywhere.
FE+FW= ;D
Quote from: bourne on May 04, 2011, 12:32:17 PM
I like scaring these sorts of people even more by telling them; water is only 0.05% of the total mass of the planet, then tell them, in certain circumstances it can change into di-hydrogen monoxide. ::)
Great way to get kids to turn the tap off when brushing their teeth.
;D
@vonwolf a by-product of FE would be desalination plants springing up everywhere.
FE+FW= ;D
No body's trying to scare any one I'm just voicing a concern.For you water is free and thats great for many other its not and its getting harder and harder to get to it. Desalinating water is expansive and it will get worse as the demand goes up. Like I said here in Florida salt water intrusion is a very real problem, many places in the US and the world over have difficulties getting to usable water.
It is just some thing to consider I hope I'm wrong,I probably am. The actual loss of water in the energy conversion in very very small I know this but it takes a long time to get back into our water table so we can use it again and that is a problem.
Pete
I was kidding about scaring people, no harm intended on my part. I think it is easy to worry about local situations (here in the south of England it feels like we have had no rain for weeks and it is supposed to be 'April showers' time of year) but Globally H2O would have literally no effect. I have seen a lecture by a chemist (if I remember correctly) who was tasked to estimate how many terrawatts the planet would need in 2050 at the present rate of growth. He explains what this looks like in oil and solar etc. Then explains about the hydrogen bonds in water and how efficiently they store vast quantities of energy. His conclusion was If all our energy production was from hydrogen extracted from water, Globally we could satisfy the demand with 1/3 of an Olympic sized swimming pool every second.
Compare that with the amount of water a single coal fired power station uses to flush away the coal ash.
Then compare to oil consumed per day, 82 million barrels per day. :o
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ene_oil_con-energy-oil-consumption (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ene_oil_con-energy-oil-consumption)
I will see if I can find the lecture and post it here
Quote from: bourne on May 04, 2011, 01:22:43 PM
I will see if I can find the lecture and post it here
Here is the guy, Daniel Nocera from MiT. http://mitworld.mit.edu/video/728 (http://mitworld.mit.edu/video/728) Personalised Energy.
This is not the exact lecture I remember watching.
Watched about 20 minutes so far, it appears to be a longer, less formal classroom version of the lecture.
A must watch IMO, just to get a scope on the figures for global solutions. :o
RM
Do you have a link [Direct] To the broadcast? Gonna get some Pop Corn and raisenettes before the Show starts!
Who Knows??
Thanks
Chet
Hi Everyone,
What you have to remember when thinking about the worlds current problems is that many of them have been deliberately created so they can be used to control you.
Water is becoming a very serious issue in many places around the world both from lack of clean drinking water and from salt water intrusion that is making the land unusable for farming.
The war for water is intended to replace the war for oil eventually. The thing that will really throw a spanner in the works is free energy becoming open source. Once that happens pretty much every problem we have regarding water will disappear very quickly.
The oceans salt water can be desalinated and used for drinking, and also for irrigation which removes all the over population and farming problems.
We can replace that water with natural processes as I described earlier. The added bonus will be that once we have turned the deserts green we can plant rain forests. These will convert the CO2 we do not want into Oxygen we do want, and the algae will produce Hydrogen gas that we need to create more water.
The one thing that we need to accomplish all this is an overunity power source to power the sea water pumping and desalination. All the other processes will be powered by sunlight naturally, and there sure is a lot of sunlight in desert regions.
It is not enough for the general population to just get their hands on a free energy device, they must also know what to do with it, or they will continue to be manipulated through their own ignorance of the possibilities.
RM :)
P.S. Just got in from work Chet but I will have a look now and see what the options are. Do you know how many hours until it starts ? I get confused with time zones. Thanks :)
Here is the direct link to late night in the midlands radio show:
http://www.latenightinthemidlands.com/
The show starts in 3 hours 34 minutes according to the countdown.
Not sure if any plugins are needed to listen, it will be different for everyone depending on what operating system and browser your running. Should be ok for the majority I think.
RM :)
Thanks RM
I guess I'll try to find their Phone #,I saw that they are in South Carolina Some where ?
Any how still time for that,Not to put you on the spot [Heh Heh]
If you could ask one Quick Succinct question ,What would it be?
Thanks
Chet
Hi Chet,
That's an easy one...
I would want to know why Glenn Canady of project.nsearch has posted a picture of Mr X's technology setup that is identical to the picture on PESWiki's Freddy Cell page and what connection Mr X has to Frederick Wells.
The answer should be enlightening... We either get confirmation that this is Fast Freddy technology, or, we get a denial about anything to do with FF, which considering the evidence discovered today implies deliberate attempted deception.
RM :)
RM
Just Hung up the Phone with Mike Vara [show host]
The Number for calling in is 803 748 9293 show starts at 10:06 pm
As far as the question,I think we should ask something less confrontational
to start?
Power in... HHO out kinda stuff,Or if it works on some Kind of Who do VooDoo reaction inside the combustion chamber [hinted at by FF]
What is this reaction? and what seperates this Tech from existing HHO units/Cells?
?
Chet
PS
The theme of the show is Mr.X is gonna save the world!
Lets ask him how?
Hi Chet,
I will not be calling in, I cannot afford an international call and besides I got that cold back so I sound like Darth Vader without the need for a voice changer.
You asked me what my question would be and that is what it would be. I say it like it is from my perspective, always have, always will.
I hope that a lot of the details of the technology will be talked about before the call in stage so it is difficult to second guess what needs clarification at this point.
I do think it will be important to find out what third party independent verification has been done on this technology and by whom to back up the claims and give them credibility.
RM :)
RM
I completely respect your point of view ,and where your coming from!
Based on what has been posted here your views are well founded!
If there is anything to this ,and Mr.X is on the level? A few simple questions if answered honestly,will "cut to the chase" !
I suppose we'll have to play it by ear?
I most likely will be calling in if this starts to sound legit?
Thanks
Chet
PS
Sorry to hear your under the weather,Please don't be annoyed with my seeming unappreciation of your question.
I am trying very hard to give this Guy the "benefit of the doubt"!
If he's a "Putz" it will be obvious pretty quickly!
Hi Chet,
I came at this with an open mind. The reason I started the thread when I found out about it was because my instinct told me there was more to it. It turns out there is a lot more to it and so I am glad that the community has contributed to get to the truth. I hope that continues.
The added bonus is that this thread in this instance could be used as a real time chat room. I am sure we will all have different opinions on what is being said, and the opportunity to brainstorm amongst ourselves here will help to identify the key issues that need clarification.
Having Mr X on the phone is an opportunity that should not be wasted to get the answers we all require to confirm or deny the claims.
Only 90 minutes or so to go now so not long to wait :)
RM :)
P.S. No worries, I do not get annoyed very often, and certainly not when people are honestly seeking the truth. Sure give the guy the benefit of the doubt, he must be under enough stress after 10 murder attempts anyway ;)
RM
I hope he's not Fast freddy,I don't see how he could be and maintain any Credibility at all [since he denied this Correct?].
Well I hope my Comp can keep the live feed open [slow piece of junk ,laptop's in the shop]. I'll know if thats a problem pretty quickly!
Yes we'll have a live chat going here...............
Chet
Hi Chet,
I am pretty sure Mr X is not Fast Freddy, I think the PESWiki guys questioned this when the questions started being asked publicly. This is what I think the May 2nd update they posted was all about.
The problem Mr X has got is that picture that appeared on nsearch early this morning. I find it hard to believe that Glenn Canady would just grab “any†picture and post it there when he has stated he has been given permission for releasing all the other information.
So how this is going to be explained away without a connection to FF being made is going to be interesting to say the least!
As its only an audio feed it should not consume much bandwidth or memory so you should be fine, you could close all non essential programs running in the background to free extra memory up.
RM :)
Well look what I just found...
http://www.latenightinthemidlands.com/profile/frederickwells?xg_source=activity
Now isn't that interesting...
:o
SOooo
Fearless fast Freddy is issuing an endorcement?
HHMMMmm...........
Now heres the question...
If we had not figured out FF was involved... Would he have shown himself at all on LNM or would it purely have been the mysterious Mr X's show ?
::)
Do you have to be a member there to get the radio show?
I just joined LNM because there is a live chat running if you scroll down the home page and you can only see it as a member. The joining email for verification went into the junk folder on hotmail which is not a great sign!
There is someone on there with the name fast freddy but I do not think it's the real one from what he is saying, frederick wells is probably the real one, if the real one is even there! Who knows!
RM :)
vonwolf: no I do not think so but joining is simple and only took 1 minute, just email address and then verify. The host Vara is in the chat now
To Me It would seem Mr.X is an associate Of FF,Hence the Dodge and the pics?
I'm more intrigued now................,Like How the heck won't this turn into a Circus??
Either these boys have been keeping a very big secret?
Or ..............
its gonna be A train wreck!!
Chet
Yes this is looking more and more like a Fast Freddy fishing trip, however he might have actually cracked it and has the real deal, will find out shortly.
Glenn Canady is in the chat as well as Michael Vara the host. No real FF yet though, or at least no frederick wells.
Going for a cuppa tea before it starts, back in 5 :)
3 min!
anyone getting the show ? it is not loading for me
THe Link
http://www.latenightinthemidlands.com/
And the call in phone #
803 748 9293
Chet
Yeah ok i got it now its just started
its not fast freddy regarding the voice from the radio
Good!
I'm not able to connect yet [POS Putor:={ Slow]
he is talking about abiotic oil now and the gulf oil spill
Quote from: evolvingape on May 04, 2011, 10:18:21 PM
he is talking about abiotic oil now and the gulf oil spill
Yeah i think they are wasting their time talking about everything but the cell!
Yes, they are about to go to first break and have not talked about anything regarding the cell yet.
Oh Well
No go RM , won't hold the connection !!I'll be standing by watching the TV and checking in here
If you want me to call and ask a question ,I will!
And I will ask him ANYTHING you want!![Well almost]
Chet
Quote from: ramset on May 04, 2011, 10:29:35 PM
Oh Well
No go RM , won't hold the connection !!I'll be standing by watching the TV and checking in here
If you want me to call and ask a question ,I will!
And I will ask him ANYTHING you want!![Well almost]
Chet
Well so far you miss nothing at all, now its the ADS for few minutes and they have say nothing about the cell (30 min of thing that everyone already know and nothing related to the cell)
Thanks One
I hope that changes soon!
Does Mr.X have a name ??
Chet
Oh thats a shame, its ok about the questions nothing worth asking yet. He is just starting on the dodge truck explanation now will let you know what he says
There is the confirmation, he is with Fast Freddy
Quote from: evolvingape on May 04, 2011, 10:26:23 PM
Yes, they are about to go to first break and have not talked about anything regarding the cell yet.
Hahahaha...what did you expect?? They flip out a set of plans and talk about it in the first 5 minutes??! LOL
Hell no, if this is a 2 hour show, you can expect that they will not say anything of substanc in the first 60 - 90 minutes. What did I say a page ago?? Nothing but blather and conspiracy talk and this has been the case so far.
Inbetween all this is what pays the bills... lots of ads and promos for the radio station.
This is going to be a bust by the looks of things. "I have seen this and I have done that....I was in the Navy...blah blah blah".
....he has just said that they "Cant do anything until they are given the go ahead by the powers that be"...ummm so why is he talking about on radio what everyone in the FE community already knows?
Nothing will be 'released' today.
Yes I agree with you. I was just letting Chet know cos he cannot listen in.
I think your also right about what he said about getting the go ahead from tptb. Looks like he is laying the excuses early for why he cannot go into detail later.
So far 51 minutes in not a single thing worth listening too...
Very bad radio show so far, I learn nothing from it!
They was supposed to tell how to run your car on water, so far it a lie, after 1 hour show and nothing....
Boring.. they should be talking about the cell and how to..
Quote from: ramset on May 04, 2011, 10:29:35 PM
If you want me to call and ask a question ,I will!
And I will ask him ANYTHING you want!![Well almost]
Chet
I don't know why, but this made me laugh. :D
Thanks, Chet.
Quote from: evolvingape on May 04, 2011, 10:52:04 PM
Yes I agree with you. I was just letting Chet know cos he cannot listen in.
I think your also right about what he said about getting the go ahead from tptb. Looks like he is laying the excuses early for why he cannot go into detail later.
So far 51 minutes in not a single thing worth listening too...
OMG AND totally amateur radio presentation!! That was the worst intro song I have ever heard LOL. Now I have to endure 10 minutes of Midnight in the Midlands self promos.
I want to bust a cap in Dr X myself for talking so much shit.
No wonder the FE community is a laughing stock.
Aphasiac
Sigh.............
I have a feeling I'll be asking a pretty nasty Question
Might even be a funny one ;D
Chet
I reckon all we are going to get out of this by the end is an opportunity to "buy" 250,000 Hydrogen Hogs... everything else regarding the "free energy car" will be what he cannot talk about...
haha they just said they are not going to tell us how to build the cell at all tonight! what a surprise!! :o
300 listeners have signed off down to 1800 from 2100
Is this some kind of sick joke??? Now he's spewing HHO sites that have been around
forever that don't get you anywhere.
Ok well that just about sums it up... they are not going to release anything of importance because they are in "negotiations" the only thing you will get out of tonight is a HHO cell, which you can do anyway without them.
What a waste of time
Quote from: ramset on May 04, 2011, 11:06:57 PM
Aphasiac
Sigh.............
I have a feeling I'll be asking a pretty nasty Question
Might even be a funny one ;D
Chet
"After this next break we'll take some voice calls. But I have to say, 'Be respectful or you'll be gone in a second. No, a millisecond.'
You're gone, Chet! lol.
(I don't think you're allowed to question Dr. X.)
hahaha.
Did I not try to warn everybody? ::)
HHMMMmm
I just tried to call to file a complaint,Busy signal...............
These creeps cost me a few hours of sleep!
Good night fellahs!
Chet
OK, thats the second time he has referenced the same comment...and I am referring to before when he said something like "we have been told in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS if you improve vehicle performance over 25 - 30% efficiency (current fuel consumption), we (the bad guys) will kill/stop you!!"
Just now, he has stated again "Oh yeh we are going to provide to people some technical details so that you can make adjustments to your car and make UP TO 30% saving" . He then says that a change to a big rig (truck) would cost 12 grand!!
What a lie and joke this turned out to be for people that dont know how the tech works. They promised "how to run your car on 100% water" and now they are telling you that they will covert your truck for 12 grand and only make 30% saving. LMFAO.
PURE WATER INJECTION ALONE (NOT HHO) which virtually costs nothing will give you a minimum of 15% feul saving and up to 50% more torque!!
This radio staion and Mr X are tools that have sold out.
Yes most probably thought the same as you Oscar, but with claims like they were making you gotta give them a chance.
What I find interesting is why all the deception and distancing from FF to begin with, if they were going to admit it at the start of the show anyway.
This is a publicity stunt, I am just waiting for the scam element, they gotta be trying to sell something by the end of the show!
Wait. They're taking a break to play music? I thought it was a break for ads.
That means we're staying up to listen to a paid late-night commercial?
haha. we all suck! lol.
another 300 listeners hung up now... down to 1500
Quote from: evolvingape on May 04, 2011, 11:37:31 PM
another 300 listeners hung up now... down to 1500
Yeh...Im one of them. Have better things to do
I'm outa here. Goodnight, folks.
BTW...he did drop two good nuggets of FE info but unless you know HOW to shape OU in the first place and by what method the energy stream derives, you are lost anyway.
All in all the guy was a big teaser.
I am off to bed guys I cannot listen to any more of this crap... SCAM
Night all RM :)
This crap is what makes it hard to fund real people with real results...scam
mark
Talk, talk, but nothing useful.. waste of time. Goodnight all!
the way the radio show was setup was to tell everything about the technologie but so far this is a pure waste of time
I am still listening in a hope some caller ask good question that will reveil something new
Oh Well,
I suppose some day I'll learn to trust my instincts!
Thanx for the thread Evolvingape ,Its kind of our duty to watch these things to see "whats Up".
Chet
PS
We had almost as many "views" here as the radio show[just during the show]!
Maybe We should invite Mr.X here ?Tell him enough of this scaredy cat 25% crap!
Man up Bud!! Times a wastin!
Yeah I think its a scam................
Yes it is very disappointing to be right about this. I was honestly hoping I was wrong, but in my heart I knew it was a scam. Now we know for sure.
The job of OU research is made doubly hard, because not only do we have to succeed in inventing the technology with extremely limited resources, we have to contend with the damage done to the concept. It is no accident that psy-ops play such a prominent role in the war for minds raging around our planet.
Mr X would never go on air with us here, he would be intellectually destroyed by people who know their stuff. The members on this site, while sometimes a little fiesty with each other, have no time for fools.
The big surprise for me in all this is PESWiki. They have a respected name and have done much work in exploring and educating on OU concepts and technology. Does anyone believe they did not perform due diligence before writing that news article publicising this event ? I am not sure I do.
They were definitely in contact with Fast Freddy before the event as the May 2nd update showed. Everything about the information we were given before the event screamed FF SCAM, and yet they tried to convince everyone it probably was not FF technology. Did they know ? I think they did. So why try and deceive everyone ??
I do not think any parties involved have come out of this with integrity or honour. Another blow struck to the OU movement. It is now up to the honest researchers to pick up the pieces and double our resolve to get this done.
RM :)
Last week I buy a old jeep grand cherokee 99 v8 4.7L, I have some stuff to repair on it, but my summer project on this jeep is to change a lot of crap on it and add HHO
- Change spark plug for Torque Master Plug
- Change muffler for AreaTurbine muffler
- EIFI device for 2 oxygens sensor
- MAP sensor ACK
- Ceramic additive on engine
- And finally HHO
FF HHO i think work but the way the cell is done using SS tube is way to complicated to do, I hope they are alternative using standard SS plate to do the same result...
Mr X, is prob using the same technologie as FF, its my guest...
Hi TheOne,
Mr X is not using similar technology to FF, he IS using FF technology. He said this on the show last night. Your wasting your time trying to replicate that, a standard dry cell will do what you need.
I was working on a brand new tubular design a while back, using thick walled schedule 316 pipe, and off the shelf components. I put it on hold while I finished writing up my turbine technologies. You can make it without needing to outsource for laser cut plates. It is not finished and I will have to try and remember everything but if you are interested I will write it up later tonight for you if I have the time. It is quite an interesting design because it has no reservoir as such, the reservoir and bubblers are combined into the structure of the cell, and it all just screws together.
Interested ?
RM :)
This clears things up a lot...
http://beforeitsnews.com/story/613/422/Mr_X_Freddy_water_fuel_non_disclosure_disappoints.html
I apologise to Sterling Allan if my remarks have caused offence. I say it like I see it based on the facts available. When those facts change my opinion changes if necessary.
I would like to thank Sterling Allan for responding fully and promptly to the concerns of the community and clarifying his role in all this. Your integrity and honesty are no longer in doubt in my mind. It appears that you were intentionally misled by Freddy.
Thankyou,
RM :)
Quote from: evolvingape on May 05, 2011, 11:03:54 AM
Hi TheOne,
Mr X is not using similar technology to FF, he IS using FF technology. He said this on the show last night. Your wasting your time trying to replicate that, a standard dry cell will do what you need.
I was working on a brand new tubular design a while back, using thick walled schedule 316 pipe, and off the shelf components. I put it on hold while I finished writing up my turbine technologies. You can make it without needing to outsource for laser cut plates. It is not finished and I will have to try and remember everything but if you are interested I will write it up later tonight for you if I have the time. It is quite an interesting design because it has no reservoir as such, the reservoir and bubblers are combined into the structure of the cell, and it all just screws together.
Interested ?
RM :)
Sounds good, I dont have a lot of tools to make one, so if its screw based it will work for me :)
Quote from: TheOne on May 05, 2011, 11:53:39 AM
Sounds good, I don't have a lot of tools to make one, so if its screw based it will work for me :)
It's people in your situation I was designing it for, if you can just order the bits via mail order, screw it together, and mount it in the engine bay and wire it up, it will bring a basic cell to everyone.
I am going to have to go into the garage and find the parts, they were all left overs from other projects, and I cannot remember all the specs. It is not in a finished form and I have not tested it but it should give you the basic design of the cell and then you can change it as you see fit.
Leave it with me and I will post it in a new thread when I can.
RM :)
Np, i will start another thread when I will repair the engine problem and start optimize the jeep
Also They are no space in the engine bay, I will put the HHO and an extra battery in the back of the jeep instead a little like the FF, so no crap in the engine bay and more space to work with I dont mind to lose 1 foot square in the back of the jeep :)
I have a question you guys might know the answer.. with HHO - glow plug, spark plug, or both?
I have talked a little bit about glow plugs and spark plugs here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10157.0
The important difference is that glow plugs combust by heating the chamber to above the auto ignition temperature of the fuel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoignition_temperature
http://www.hydrogen-motors.com/hydrogen.html
http://www.safehho.com/hhotechnology.html
As you can see the stated auto ignition temperature of hydrogen varies depending on who you ask, so normally I advise if you do not want auto ignition then keep the temperature below 500C.
Glow plugs are not designed for HHO but other fuels and so may not even reach 500C and so you would also need to test for this. The other important point is that once the engine chamber is up to operating temperature the glow plug is normally turned off and the engine continues to run with automatic timing.
So you need to work out if your intended engine can run with automatic timing. If it cannot then use a standard spark plug and set the timing. The other option is to use a buzz coil and spark plug for simple off the shelf custom timing, see first link for info.
Hope that helps :)
RM :)
Glow Plugs are mainly used in Diesel engines when there cold to help start and raise the temperature of the combustion chamber to help ignition till it warms up to normal operating temperature.
I'm not sure if HHO lowers the ignition temperature in a diesel but I would think a glow plug might cause pr-ignition problems.
Pete
Yes Pete is right about the glow plugs on cars being used in diesel engines to raise the chamber temperature when cold starting. When you turn the ignition on you should see a light in the dashboard in the shape of a coil. When the light goes out you can start the engine as it is up to temperature.
The glow plugs I was referring too are the ones used for model engines that are battery powered, not sure what temperature they operate at though.
RM :)
Hi TheOne,
I have put up the Everyman HHO Cell design for you, hope that is the kind of thing you are looking for, any problems understanding what to do let me know :)
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10694.new#new
RM :)
I was wondering, why poeple fail to dupplicate the FF cell
1. They are not using the right pressure
2. This is not connected to the fuel injection rack, inserting in the air intake will not work, just boost your mileage
3. They are not using a deep cycle battery, since that what power the cell from the video, the connection with the car battery is to charge the other battery i think (it not really related to the replication but I will do like that and maybe add a solar panel to charge the battery during the day, so less stress from the alternator and less fuel needed)
4. They are some gazoline in the water (2% guess from the interview) , so a little gaz vapor are poored in the engine with the HHO, its maybe why from FF video the water look so brown
So, one of the thing I will do in my jeep will be some kind of adaptor to close/open the gasoline from the fuel rack, so I will able to switch from one to another
I hope it will be simple to do it :)
I don't buy that part of %2 gasoline in the water it would just pool up in one or two place's. I doubt it would even get through the system, if it did it would go through as a glob of gas not a %2 mixture. It would have to be injected some other way, not sure how?
Pete
if fuel are in the water and the water is agitated the fuel will vaporise, I have done that with an old lawnmower (no water just fuel) and was using 2 times less fuel to run at least but the setup was just a try it
So some fuel vapor can be mixed with hho i guest, but this is not really related to the 100% HHO, this is just to save the engine from rusting i guess
Quote from: TheOne on May 06, 2011, 12:16:23 PM
if fuel are in the water and the water is agitated the fuel will vaporise, I have done that with an old lawnmower (no water just fuel) and was using 2 times less fuel to run at least but the setup was just a try it
So some fuel vapor can be mixed with hho i guest, but this is not really related to the 100% HHO, this is just to save the engine from rusting i guess
I'v never tried it so I guess its possable it just seems kind of strange
Pete
Quote from: vonwolf on May 06, 2011, 11:59:38 AM
I don't buy that part of %2 gasoline in the water it would just pool up in one or two place's. I doubt it would even get through the system, if it did it would go through as a glob of gas not a %2 mixture. It would have to be injected some other way, not sure how?
Pete
OMG...cmon people...youre thinking so small and not even towards the outside of the box yet!
Of course its not going to be a glob of gasoline floating in a big tank of water, however there are ways to mix water and oil you know!!!
Im not going to give you the ultimate answer to water fuel but I will laugh at Mr X's 25 - 30% 'saving and give you two suggestions that will EASILY give you 50 - 70% fuel saving and a minimum 50% increase in power.
Forget HHO and all its baloney. For all the work and energy that you put in, there are 'windows' of massive explosive power that can be gained from water but these are so small in the experimentation and so finicky that they are almost impossible to replicate. HHO GAS alone is troublesome and a waste of time. Not to mention all the expense of parts, making the device, distilled water, chemicals, constantly cleaning the stupid thing and more.
Here are two things you can replicate SIMPLY and test with old engines.
1) EMULSIFIERS - Emulsifiers allow the oil molecule to be bound up into the water. (This is how you run diesel engines on as low as 50% water to waste oil mix by using the correct emulsifier). You know those lotions you put on your hands and face? They utilize emulsifiers!! They have to otherwise each time you open the container, you would be faced with the water components separated from the oils in the lotion. Pre-mixing the fuel with the assistance of an emulsifier that will burn off without leaving residue in the engine is the key to BIG savings for diesel engines but can work with gasoline also.
2) As 'TheOne' suggested, a VERY SIMPLE option for old carburettor gas engines is a plain tank of water with the gasoline floating in it (no emulsion). You use the vacuum of the engine to draw the air through the bubbler and this agitates the gasoline water mix and the vehicle subsequently runs on FUMES and evaporated WATER VAPOR which enhance the detonation. Unlike normal injection or carburettors which are designed to SPRAY the fuel (in what seems gigantic wasteful droplets), the bubbler FUMES and there is virtually no waste or pollution thanks to the water also. Additionally, due to the water being EVAPORATED off, you dont need to go to the expense of distilled water.
Anyway, this is all very easy to test on a small or large scale. Buy yourself an old bunky for your daughter who is about to get a drivers licence and install a bubbler tank on it! It will require minimum of tuning also (unlike these pure HHO systems) and slash your fuel bill by at least 50% for hardly any effort.
The answers are out there. Knowledge is the key to everything and this is nothing compared to what can be accomplished. However before you all start waste time jumping from one thing to another chasing dreams that might never be and some cold fusion powered car that you will likely never see in your lifetime, start making changes RIGHT THIS INSTANT. 50% fuel saving is not to be laughed at and its not some pie in the sky idea....its old school physics that work. Stick it to the man now!
THINK!!
I suddenly find myself liking Mr. electric Goose
What would be a good surfactant for diesel??
Do you have any links to study?
Thanks
Chet
Here one of my video with the lawnmower running on fuel vapor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ld6UlSVadXU
Crappy video made using a old phone... anyway :)
Quote from: ramset on May 06, 2011, 10:02:51 PM
I suddenly find myself liking Mr. electric Goose
What would be a good surfactant for diesel??
Do you have any links to study?
Thanks
Chet
Chet my dear Fellow
I said EMULSIFIER not SURFACTANT. They are not entirely the same and certainly will not help you in the fuel 'alloying' stakes.
Read up on OIL EMULSIFIERS and in particular, look for an organic emulsifier (plenty of them). All you need it to do is bond the water droplets around a glob of oil fuel and bingo you have super fuel more explosive than diesel itself. Just google it....I'm not doing a 'Tito' here and toying you along. I have given you a simple answer, Im just saying that you should research a little yourself to aid education. Its all easy to find.
@Everyone - I have said this before. OU has been presented on forums many times and yet it goes ignored, unnoticed or whatever. I am pretty sure one of the biggest obstacles to REPLICATION is that 1) people dont read properly and follow the instructions to the letter and 2) There is a 'pre-mindset' of "I know better" and they are already altering the design without trying the original first!
I gave you guys two really SUPER SIMPLE suggestions and all I ask is that as a first step, you do exactly this - TRY IT AS SUGGESTED TO THE LETTER. I promise you it works. After you have it working....THEN try and improve on it.
Believe me, with some not so fancy alterations, you can get your 'water fuel alloy' mix down to VERY lean numbers (under 10% fuel). This sure beats buggering around with stupid HHO where you are burning energy to get less out.
All the best.
Oh hell, I'm in a less than grouchy and generous mood today ;D
Here is a patent that proves 40% oil/ 10% emulsifier/ 50% water is FACT.
Obviously this is a very technical document with an end product that is supposed to have a good 'shelf life' so don't read it and think "oh crap this is all too hard". You can make fuel emulsion at home in your blender.
http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20090313885
I started a new thread relative to my conversion:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10699.msg284684#new
I will stop to post here unless its related to Mr X or FF :)
Well Mr. Electris Goose
I think I actually do like you...........
And if you can get this idea to manifest in my Burner head of my furnace .......
I could actually learn to "love" you!!
Running different "soups through my engine [FI Diesel]without the benifit of "do this its good".,Is a little to dicey for my "budget" {this does all sound "pantone-esk]
But playing with a burner head and some "emulsifiers" with a lasor therm
Till I get the right "recipe" that's doable !
{provided I don't go Abnormaly "Toxic" with emission }
This is all starting to sound very familiar ? Didn't some fellow from India get a 90 -10 ratio [water to fuel]running on some secret sause mix [patented]?
Part of The Trick being he got it to stay in solution !
your sudden "Benevolent" mood is greatly appreciated!
I hope you don't wake up "Cranky" tommorow!
Your friend
Chet
@CHET:
You had it when you said Goose’s advice sounded very similar to Pantone. It is exactly what Pantone is doing (bubbling air/exhaust gasses through the fuel) MINUS the reactor. This is how Pantone was able to run a 4 stroke engine on raw crude oil. If you guys followed Pantone’s free plans, you could run your cars off of raw crude oil just like Paul did. Why just gasoline? Cut out the middle man. Why do you think Pantone was harassed so much in the U.S.? Because the crooked major oil companies in the U.S. saw that Paul Pantone could make it possible for people to cut them out of the loop and render their refineries useless. They need for you to need them. They don’t want you to be able to refine your own fuel as you drive.
Once you are running your cars off of raw crude oil, you can eventually phase out ALL of the U.S. gasoline refineries who are screwing us all as they gouge us without any government protection like the lie Obama told to get elected where he promised windfall profit taxes he said he would impose on the U.S. oil companies that he pussied out of.
Now the biggest challenge will be buying raw crude oil from oil producing countries. I do not know if this is or is NOT possible. If it is NOT possible, then this would be something to run by presidential candidates (making it legal for us to buy direct from oil producing countries which will make them compete for our business again) in our upcoming 2012 elections. I will vote for ANY (and I mean ANY) candidate who would enable people using this kind of technology to buy directly from ANY crude oil vendor. If they want our votes, they will at least consider it.
This will make fuel more affordable and less polluting at the same time. Paul Pantone gives away the plans and permission to build one unit per individual. It would be a start at least.
In a prior post I stated that we needed oil but this was just a poor attempt at reverse psychology. I apologize for this.
Oscar
Quote from: ramset on May 07, 2011, 05:02:26 AM
your sudden "Benevolent" mood is greatly appreciated!
I hope you don't wake up "Cranky" tommorow!
Your friend
Chet
Chet
OK..its been a tough day but I have come home and I have a couple single malts under the belt plus a nice 78 Sangiovese....right now my benovolence knows no bounds so hang on to your hat.
My first wish is that 'you' (everyone) question everything. This is a good thing. Extremes are destructive in that, on one end you have the guru followers who simply believe what looks believable and on the end you have those who believe nothing (new) is possible. I ask that you not believe what I (or anyone else) has to say carte blanche, BUT if it seems MILDLY feasable, entertain it long enough so as to test it yourself and prove to YOURSELF what the TRUTH is by EVIDENCE. This is how I have conducted scientific experiments. If you are honest and humble with your approach, the truth will be made self evident and eventually lead you to the answers you seek.
Now that I have stated this....lets get down to making some fuel.
Chet (and everyone)... you dont need raw heavy unrefined crude oil in order to make fuel emulsion. Anything as 'light' as waste frying canola (vegatable) oil will do the trick. Once you have a recipe down pat, you are only limited by your creativity. Large and small fast food places PAY waste haulers to remove there old oil. If you beffriend a local, hamburger joint with chip fryer, there is nothing that will stop you from taking a couple drums a week for a case of beer.
Think of OIL as the positive pole of the battery and the water as the negative. The further these two are apart the better. I mean by this, that the HEAVIER the oil, the more bang for your explosive buck. Strictly speaking you can make a fuel emulsion with very thin oils, however the explosive 'expansive' power is less.
OK...now back to emulsifiers. The only problem with an emulsion (end product water oil fuel combined) is that if you dont combine it properly it will start to separate in the fuel tank before it eventually gets to the engine. You can get around this TWO ways.
1) Have the Oil and water in separate tanks and combine them with a simple mixer JUST PRIOR to combustion.
2) Prepare the fuel mix in a more stable manner where the shelf life is assured.
YOU are the experimenter and how you want to go about it is up to you.
IF you use an organic emulsifier Chet, you will have no worries of toxic emissions and in fact with the water combination you will virtually have no nitrous toxins to speak of normally associated with diesel or heavy oil fuels.
The ONLY MINOR changes you MIGHT have to make to a diesel system for emulsion fuel is in the fuel pump. Some like a certain viscosity or wont tolerate water. I dont know ALL the systems and therefore can't say which will be ok on which for certainty. Additionally...most diesel fuel systems have a in line water removal filter and this can be done away with.
Now about Gasoline bubblers - -
Gasoline bubblers are VERY simple. If you have an old weed whacker, lawn mower or generator, I suggest you start small and work up. A crappy vehicle is fine also.
I have already explained what you need to do. As 'the One' has pointed out, it is Pantonish without the reactor. Quite frankly, all that buggering around with the reactor really doesnt do a lot in my opinion when the majority of fuel efficiency is accomplished by water evap injection and fuming.
Normally, a engine running too lean would be far too HOT and this would lead to all sorts of issues. However, with the introduction of the water vapor, not only do you 'cool' the burn but this has an anti detonant effect, creates higher compression and increases torque a tremeondous %.
I suggest you read up on the wikepedia info regarding 'standard' water injected engines, (mainly used in F1 aircraft such as the Red Bull Air Race). This will give you and understanding of what what water vapor accomplishes inside the combustion cylinder.
OK....hop to it....theres savings to be made!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_injection_(engines)
Well now Mr Goose... how nice of you to join the party! ;D
Two excellent posts there so I thought I would chime in too if you don't mind...
This might interest you:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10572.0
So we do not need to access the crude oil directly from the pumpers, it is all around us. This new plastic into oil technology combined with what your talking about could very well provide the bridge technology we need to utilise all the ICE's in current use.
The link you posted about water injection into engines made me smile so I have reproduced my favourite paragraph below:
“Water injection has been used in both reciprocating and turbine aircraft engines. When used in a turbine engine, the effects are similar, except that preventing detonation is not the primary goal. Water is normally injected either at the compressor inlet or in the diffuser just before the combustion chambers. Adding water increases the mass being accelerated out of the engine, increasing thrust, but it also serves to cool the turbines. Since temperature is normally the limiting factor in turbine engine performance at low altitudes, the cooling effect allows the engines to be run at a higher RPM with more fuel injected and more thrust created without overheating.[3] The drawback of the system is that injecting water quenches the flame in the combustion chambers somewhat, as there is no way to cool the engine parts without cooling the flame accidentally. This leads to unburned fuel out the exhaust and a characteristic trail of black smoke.â€
As you probably know I am a turbine man and have written extensively about them recently. The two key posts to pay attention too are these:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10274.0
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10451.0
These are important in regard to that paragraph because we can see that we now have a way of using water injection in a boundary layer turbine that increases torque on the shaft (not thrust) and at the same time cools the components of the turbine.
We also do not suffer the drawback of cooling the flame causing fuel to be incompletely burnt, and can also cool the combustion chamber separately because I have removed it from the turbine.
So you now have all the knowledge you need to build your own water injection, HHO detonation, rotary turbine system. Turbines are not ICE's and perform a different function.
What they do very well is maintain a very high constant torque, this will allow them to be the perfect engine for powering a constant speed PMA and provide what we need for converting water fuel to electricity in an electric vehicle.
When we consider that electrolysis is still very inefficient and is a fledgeling technology then large improvements will be made in the future. I find all this very exciting.
I sometimes wonder to myself how many of you realise what I have given you, the silence indicates I think that quite a lot of you do, which is good :)
RM :)
Quality input there Evolving Ape. Good material on the turbines which can be very efficient even without 'alloyed' fuels.
Flame on!
Following on from the previous conversation I have had a chance to sleep on it and believe this might interest you all...
If we were to utilise the plastic to oil technology to make our own oil then we would have a hydrocarbon liquid with different properties, depending on what plastics we put into the “sauce mixâ€.
If we were to utilise a solid state mixer just prior to injection into the chamber then no emulsifier would be required, simplifying things massively, as we would not need an additional raw material and there would be no problems with changing the recipe.
The image I have put up is from this page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Injector
Anyone recognise its operating principles ? You should because it works the same way as the HELIS, in mechanical only mode without an electrolytic closed system crossover function.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10218.0
So it will be very simple to make your own with off the shelf components and stainless steel hydraulic fittings.
I would suggest that the motive fluid is the water, powered by a water pump, as it will have the necessary mass flow rate we require.
The entrained suction fluid would be our oil. I would suggest some kind of metering valve such as a needle or butterfly to control the oil mass flow rate which will change depending on the viscosity of your sauce mix. It will also allow you to adjust the power of the engine from the “cockpit†if you remote control it.
If you had a “Mr Fusion†on board for emergencies and you ran out of fuel, you could strip the dash or the bumper off and make some more to get you out of trouble. You could also go find some ground water to refill the water tank.
So any thoughts ?
RM :)
Evolving Ape
Yes, I have considered the emulsion with the emulsifier and this has been accomplished. Really this whole thing is only limited by how complex or simple you wish to make it.
Emulsifiers have the problem that if you don't chose the right one, they will leave a residue after burn. Additionally, if you dont get the formula correct there is the worry of separation if stored for prolonged periods. Mixing in some prechamber as you suggest gets around both these concerns.
The bottom line is....don't get bogged down with huge design issues. Start with something and work from there. You KNOW that oil + water in a 50:50 ratio when hitting a hot surface will immediately 'flash' into a expansive superfuel far more volatile than oil or diesel by itself. Make this your bench mark.
If you have a little diesel engine that you can experiment with, the simplest way to circumvent emulsifiers is first making sure that the fuel pump is in order and will handle a water/oil mix. After that, anything as simple as 'blending vortex' chamber prior to the fuel pump and primarily the INJECTOR RAIL is where you will want the mixing of water and oil to occur if you don't include a binder.
If you agitate/whisk water and oil enough until the oil 'beads' are very small, they will actually stay in solution long enough without the emulsifier to make it through to the injector rail.
Hello again Mr Goose,
I have done some further thinking on our discussions and I now wish to share with you my current direction...
For me emulsification technology is a no go. I mean absolutely no disrespect to you, your work in this regard is admirable, but it fails my criteria.
The reasons for this are that an emulsifier requires a stable raw material, acceptable quality control, a continuous support structure, and considerable R&D. It is also suited more to mass production than on demand supply.
All of these are outside the resources of the common man. My aim of the game is to provide technology that does not require me and my specialist knowledge. A failsafe mechanism if you will.
So, I have worked upon Injector technology and come up with my Injector Mk1.
This utilises off the shelf stainless steel 316 fixed female tees, sleeving technology, ECV inserts and diffuser technology.
Water pressure is generated by a pump and forced through the ECV, oil vapour is sucked in under vacuum just before the area of maximum compression, and is then propelled from subsonic to supersonic.
This supersonic velocity soup is then forced through a 10 Micron Gauze causing atomisation (or close too), before being fed to the Injector Rail.
Note that I have inverted the Oil Vapour Inlet, this is to prevent on shut down water entering the oil boiler.
This design also removes the need for a condenser chamber as with the standard plastic to oil technology. The condensation of the oil vapour occurs upon vacuum suction into the water stream just before the area of maximum compression.
This means all we now need to do is melt the plastic in a stainless container, simplifying the architecture, and the vapour gases are sucked into the injector, not liquid.
Control the mix by controlling the injection hole diameter. For prototyping start small and then simply drill the next size up and compare performance until optimum is achieved.
With a plastic boiler installed in the boot of the car and the fuel tank of the car filled with water instead of petrol it should be a simple retro fit.
RM :)
RM
Waste plastic is a monsterous Problem!
Turning it into a resource such as a fuel woulsd be "HUGE"!
The idea of setting up a supply line for recycling in this manner would be very appealing!
The "Processer" and the troubles associated with it are the weakest link in this?
IMO the place to start is there,get a good reliable "reactor" the rest will follow![This would be Oh so Cool!:=}
BTW Mr.Goose
I have to say That 50/50 bench mark you speak of [to start]
Very Cool,
I picked up Half a dozen old VW 1.6 diesels recently,Might play with a
bit of "soup"!
Have you got a "Recipe" to start the ball rolling?
Thanks
Chet
Quote from: ramset on May 09, 2011, 01:11:53 AM
RM
Waste plastic is a monsterous Problem!
Turning it into a resource such as a fuel woulsd be "HUGE"!
The idea of setting up a supply line for recycling in this manner would be very appealing!
The "Processer" and the troubles associated with it are the weakest link in this?
IMO the place to start is there,get a good reliable "reactor" the rest will follow![This would be Oh so Cool!:=}
BTW Mr.Goose
I have to say That 50/50 bench mark you speak of [to start]
Very Cool,
I picked up Half a dozen old VW 1.6 diesels recently,Might play with a
bit of "soup"!
Have you got a "Recipe" to start the ball rolling?
Thanks
Chet
Chet
Wow...you guys are terrible. :-) You give me a hard time about not suggesting better ways for energy and now Im stuck in this thread LOL.
@ Evolving Ape - LOVELY design man...but dont reinvent the wheel.
I'm a big fan of RESEARCH and READING. It may take many hours but aquiring knowledge is less expensive and more time efficient than building something in your garage only to find out that some fella has accomplished the same task 100 years ago. Sadly, much of that goes on at these forums.
Chet, even though I gave you guys two choices right at the start (emulsifier or none OR bubbler), whilst the chemical/organic emulsifier route has you burning water/oil alloy fuel much quicker (due to simplicity), I would suggest you go the route that Evolving Ape is looking at so you dont have the hassle of mixing emulsifier and any issues with residue in the engine.
We have already discussed a little on 'mechanical' means of agitating the water into a fuel oil emulsion but dont forget others options like sonic/acoustic cavitation. No real moving parts and it uses minimal energy to mush the water and oil into a nice soup.
Here is a company that already sells units that are tried and tested. Do we hear anything about this??? Hell no. You can buy them to attach onto your furnace or under the hood of the car and they mix a minimum 35% water with oil.
Don't forget what I said about oil and water....the ratio is going to vary according to the type of oil you use and only testing will give YOU the guaranteed numbers. Heavier the oil, the less you have to use. It can be recycled out of a chip fryer it does not matter. Just make sure you have run it through a basic fine filter to get all the 'particles' out.
Theres a lot of great second hand stuff out there that you dont have to build and can be 'cogged together' so as to achieve multiple purposes. Small compressors, venturi tubes, etc etc. Think outside the box and you will barely have to make anything yourself.
Have a look at this - http://www.3rdrockenergy.com/save.html
Further along the lines of sonic cavitation....check this out from 1975. Take a gander at the design - SIMPLICITY.
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=cKSqa8u3EIoC&pg=PA89&lpg=PA89&dq=ultrasonic+fuel+mixer&source=bl&ots=A732pb4uI_&sig=x2v3cTTykNw95LVOUZ-_jKeHmk0&hl=en&ei=jqvHTYOXMczhrAfB9OjVBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CEEQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
This just shows what ultrasonic ATOMIZATION does. The mileage improved 22 - 28%
In this case it doesnt even introduce water....just imagine the mileage if it did!!!!!!!!
Ultrasonics within a enclosed space are capable of producing destructive cavitation and some companies use this to 'cold boil' water and oil together 'smashing' them into micron fine beaded emulsion far superior to that of a mechanical mixer.
Its all good!
Hey Chet,
Yes this conversation is bringing up some very interesting directions to pursue...
You heard about all the plastic floating in the sea in what they are calling the dead zone ? It's supposed to be the size of Texas or something like that. This technology could turn all that plastic into energy and would be as simple as parking a few big generator ships in the middle of it.
The added beauty of this is that all the water you could ever want and the plastic are in the same place so I see no problems implementing this.
Mr Goose...
I am not trying to reinvent the wheel, I simply took the wheel that had been invented and made the variables customisable for the experimenter.
On another note you got me thinking, there was a project I was playing around with a few years back that utilised off the shelf technology that can be adapted to what we are talking about here.
This is my interpretation of the Paint Spraygun Water Fuel Atomiser Injection System...
As we can see there is a heat source and a saucepan full of water. The Spraygun paint pot is suspended in the water to prevent hot spots and is evenly heated by the boiling water.
Plastic is dropped into the chamber and then the chamber is sealed. The plastic melts and gives off oil vapour.
The pressurised water is connected to what used to be the air inlet. When the trigger is pressed the water flows over the venturi and oil vapour is sucked into the water stream.
This is fed to the atomiser for mixing and then goes off to the Injector Rail of the engine.
Is that simple enough for you ? ;)
RM :)
Also, if you wanted to use the Stainless Steel Kelly Kettle as the heat source then you would never have to worry about fuel, you could use twigs off the ground.
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/sp18c-spray-gun/path/spray-guns-spraying-equipment-air-brushes
http://www.kellykettle.com/Kelly-Kettles/Stainless-Steel-Trekker-Kelly-Kettle%C2%AE-0.57-Ltr-/-1-pint.html
Simple Enough?
Wow can't wait to have a good look at that!
Thanks
Chet
This is basically what Paul Pantone was doing in a different way, if we mix all this with hho, we can probably get something very good
Quote from: evolvingape on May 09, 2011, 09:20:17 AM
This is my interpretation of the Paint Spraygun Water Fuel Atomiser Injection System...
As we can see there is a heat source and a saucepan full of water. The Spraygun paint pot is suspended in the water to prevent hot spots and is evenly heated by the boiling water.
Plastic is dropped into the chamber and then the chamber is sealed. The plastic melts and gives off oil vapour.
The pressurised water is connected to what used to be the air inlet. When the trigger is pressed the water flows over the venturi and oil vapour is sucked into the water stream.
This is fed to the atomiser for mixing and then goes off to the Injector Rail of the engine.
Is that simple enough for you ? ;)
Evolving Ape
NOW youre cooking big fella!! Thats the way...
You recycling ways are admirable.
Best
Now lets take that whole concept one step further and nearly finish the picture of what a under the hood simple refinery is starting to look like my dear fellows.
Remember the World War 2 Gasifier that turns wood into gas that can be used on internal combustion engines??? Well Mr Evolving Ape....thats basically what you have there in your plastic recycler!! Except, you have a far MORE volatile fuel (in plastic) that is still carbon based and will emit a more explosive fume than wood alone.
Please read up on actually what happens in a gasifier - Moisture in the timber is crucial to the process
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasification
Heres a fella who stutters something awful and has made the crudest lovely gasifier from a paint tin and old can of bake beans -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mgu9BdHeUYg
Add water mist to this and we are now up to 100% recycling stakes, "goodbye to the bowser". In fact you dont need ADDITIONAL water to run an engine with a gasifier, it is that volatile and efficient. However because we are talking about recycling horrible plastic with all those nasty chemicals, you will want to 'wash' the fumes via the in cyclinder combustion, which will eradicate almost all of this.
I'm not sure how many of you know this, but there is a nice little refinery that exists in the States which runs off patented technology which turns ALL OIL BASED plastics/rubber/synthetics/etc back into refined fuel. The entire plant is actually the largest OU device in the world because it uses its own fuel (from the recycling process) with ManyX more output of refined fuel left to sell back to the consumer. Yet...where is this technology??? Why arent they making these plants for every City/Power plant/ vehicle??? Yeh...money of course. Obviously we shouldnt be making plastic in the first place but until that day, these plants would be great to get rid of toxic landfill and Ocean pollution.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNcht2x4m8g
Hello Everyone,
This thread is becoming very productive... it's so much better when all the kiddies play nicely together! ;D
It has been years since I even thought about gasifiers, and then I did not pay them much attention as I was far too busy with my turbines which are not based on hydrocarbon fuel.
My interest has been rekindled and I am going to give this subject some serious thought :)
If "TheOne" fancies adding HHO to the mix then it will be simple, I have already shown you how to do this... See pictures below and combine them into one device ;)
As a tip...
Schedule 80 316 Seamless 1/8 pipe has an OD of 10.3mm.
1/2 BSP hydraulic equal hexagon nipple fittings have an internal bore of about 11.9mm.
This means that the pipe can be sleeved perfectly into the fitting using just two pieces of brass tubing sleeve of the correct size. 1off K&S 7/16 x 0.14 (11.1mm x 0.355mm) Stock #137 and 1off K&S 15/32 x 0.14 (11.92mm x 0.355mm) Stock #138.
The HELIS insert is then centred in the ID bore of the pipe and then add electricity...
RM :)
Hi Everyone,
Here is an updated Injector diagram factoring in HHO production.
It is going to be really interesting to see what kind of fuel energy we can generate with a device like this...
RM :)
Overunity?,Absolutely !![as far as my Wallet]
Fellahs ,This I can do,I'm in!
Gasification Of waste plastic ,recycling into a liquid fuel ,or an onboard "burn as you Churn" gas system !{prefer the liquid fuel[storage]]
Seems like a nice old Moonshine Still would be the "baseline"?
Had a little sit down with a local "jack of all trades"," master of Some"!
He's in Too..............
All Open Source [Of Course]
Chet
Hi Everyone,
Here is an inline filter at 10 Microns that might work very well as an atomiser with the Injector Mk2...
Just make sure it is electrically isolated from the circuit or the stainless steel filter will disappear!
http://www.magnafuel.com/products/accessories/filters/
RM :)
Hi Everyone,
Here is a good Loctite for sleeving... 638 Maximum Strength :)
It is highly viscous (gloopy) and works on clearances up to 0.25mm. It should electrically isolate the sleeves from the circuit if you do it right. Check it with a multimeter :)
You will also need ½ BSP Fixed Female Tees and ½ BSP Male x Male Adaptor (the tubes are sleeved in the adaptor and the adaptor screws into the tees)
This is a very exciting development we have created between us... anyone else notice the abnormally high number of people on the site today ? :)
RM :)
http://www.bearingboys.co.uk/Loctite_638_Maximum_Strength_Retaining_Compound_50ml-847-p#
http://www.customfittings.co.uk/brochures/CF100D2003/Default.html
http://www.nero.co.uk/3000lb_pipe_fittings
http://www.burnettandhillman.co.uk/en/
http://www.zx55.com/shopexd.asp?id=4512
http://www.cotswoldengineeringsupplies.co.uk/Hydraulic%20Adaptors/adaptorsproducts.php?item=BTFF&inthere=&line=Hydraulic%20Adaptors
i am still puzzled as to why mister x/fast freddy decided to defile 'starwars day' with their unveiling.
Wilby
Seems like he went from Fast Freddy the Fearless To
Half fast Freddy the Fraudulant?
I hope he wakes up Before We get the "Freddy goes to Jail " part!
I think he got mixed up with a bad Crowd?
On another note some very cool ideas being bounced around here!
I believe I'll be experimenting with some of these.
Any support you can offer would be greatly appreciated!
Waste Plastic to Fuel.............It'll self run plus make more!
"Fuel Shine!"
Thanks
Chet
Hey Chet,
Yes, your right, there are some extremely cool ideas being played with here...
Waste Plastic to Fuel...
Depending on your perspective this is going to be a free energy technology of practical use. The reason I say this is that the Plastic has been processed and a cost has been paid already BUT you will pay nothing... you can run your car for free until the plastic runs out!
Then we have the environmental implications which are HUGE!
Then we have the possibility of picking up all the people by bus, who sit on the benefits system doing fuck all for society, combined with the ones that have registered themselves “disabled†with a bad back (despite playing golf every Sunday and building walls). They can work 8 hours a day sitting down with a conveyor belt going past with all our stinking rubbish on it. They can pick the plastic off of it for recycling! They do this and they get the benefit money!!
I wonder how many of them will go find a job quick... or a miracle happens and the back gets better?
The implications of what we have all worked out together here are truly world changing in potential, if the prototypes work then we really got something!
RM :)
RM
I will have to look for the Link ,A Chinese fellow Built a Portable plastic waste proccessor that he took to Third world countries to make Fuel on demand,Very small [home garbage compacter sized].I don't know if he's from the same company as the Big Plants E Goose Mentioned?
We had a brief discussion on this Here ,but it was decided it wasn't for the faint of heart !
I know this can be done safely ,it just requires some safety Protocol be followed!
This I can Do!!
Good stuff
Chet
Hey Chet,
Cool :)
I did not find out about plastic into oil technology until a few weeks ago when I heard about the Japanese guy via Rumormillnews. I was impressed, but it was not until the conversation with Mr Goose I realised the potential for gasification injectors. Thankyou Mr Goose!
The fact that HELIS technology is perfectly suited for integration is a big bonus!!
I have been thinking about it and if we were to use a heater element to start the gasification process powered by the battery then once the engine is running we can turn the heater element off. We insert the plastic boiler water system in between the engine and the radiator and use waste engine heat to continue making gas.
If we also upgrade the alternator to a PMA we are saving power that can be used to run a Dry Cell and we can also add HHO into the mix in the same way as the gas. I have put up the Mk3 Injector to show the same venturi effect for a HHO feed. Just watch that the HELIS insert does not erode too badly via electrolysis, if it does then don't use it in this way and just take a HHO feed from a Dry Cell. When (if) the titanium plating technology is proven then that will prevent HELIS insert erosion.
Also, this might interest you:
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/cpp2-pressurised-paint-container/path/spray-guns-spraying-equipment-air-brushes
Perfect for what we need I think!
I was also thinking about processing the plastic into liquid for storage as well. If you were to melt the plastic down into a liquid and then pour it into a container smaller than the pressure container, and then allow it to cool... You would have solidified plastic pellets the perfect size.
Refuelling your car would be as simple as dropping a new plastic pellet in and filling the tank with water.
The only thing you gotta watch out for is plastics with a high melting temperature such as polypropylene which is over 100 C, they might not melt.
RM :)
RM & Chet
Have started a new thread to get the stank of Fast Freddy and his cronies outta here. The title of this thread no longer applies.
If you guys know a more efficient way than copy and paste to bring across our conversations from the past few pages, then please do so.
New thread -
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10708.msg285331#new
Hello Mr Goose,
Agreed, this thread has served it's purpose and has developed some really interesting concepts to explore and make progress quickly.
I think Page 9 Post#129 and onwards would be a good place to begin the strip. What's your opinion ?
Copy and Paste is probably the best way although a little time consuming. I do not mind doing it but this is not my thread, so I leave the decision to you.
Important things are happening here, there is real technology with world changing potential emerging...
RM :)
P.S. any moderators have an idea of how to efficiently strip pertinent posts then please let us know :)
Quote from: evolvingape on May 09, 2011, 09:12:20 PM
Hello Mr Goose,
Agreed, this thread has served it's purpose and has developed some really interesting concepts to explore and make progress quickly.
I think Page 9 Post#129 and onwards would be a good place to begin the strip. What's your opinion ?
Copy and Paste is probably the best way although a little time consuming. I do not mind doing it but this is not my thread, so I leave the decision to you.
Important things are happening here, there is real technology with world changing potential emerging...
RM :)
P.S. any moderators have an idea of how to efficiently strip pertinent posts then please let us know :)
RM
Thanks...ur a sensible fellow and Im not going to be possessive about it, therefore if you can either ask Pirate or someone to transfer those pages, hop in and do your best.
Ok no worries I will do it now, should not take that long really. There is lots of waffle to cut out anyway and most of the pictures are mine so already on my computer, no problems uploading them again.
I will get on it now, still got a few Guinness's left and the missus does not moan at me when she is asleep ;)
RM :)
.