This thread is focused on Romero's understandings and experiments that led to OU.
This will be a very strictly moderated thread with the goal of documenting the principles and experiments necessary to achieve OU.
This thread is designed to be a concise and focused. Any deviations from the objectives will be simply deleted.
Fausto.
edit by moderator:
Romero's video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkV2Y4Yke4I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkV2Y4Yke4I)
shorting a generator coil:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRyKVU6YzYw
I have just answered on youtube and might be relevant to all members here interested in this effect.
The ideea is that more load to increase the speed and that can be obtained.
More load brings the system close to shorting the coil.
This works at certains speeds and again in a cycle.
Example:
if it works when we have around 500rpm it migh work again at 1000 and again at 1500...
in reality is not calculated like that, this is just an example.
I am working to get the right formula.
if you turn a rotor to speed and look at it at one point we will see like it turns in reverse. that is the important moment we need to consider.
Regarding shorting the coil:
why not to keep the coil shorted all the time and release it only at the right moment.
Example:
a plastic pipe with water flowing...
we cover the end and it creates pressure inside then if we release it from time to time we get a nice strong jet.
Well that Zener idea mixed in with what Bruce was saying could do that. USe the zener to keep the coil shorted until it hits its breakdown voltage and it releases the pulse. This was something I mentioned to my friend the other day. Keep coming up with ideas to test while im finishing the mechanicals.
Quote: "why not to keep the coil shorted all the time and release it only at the right moment."
One of those simple ideas that prompt a,'now why didn't I think of that' response. Thanks Romero, good to see you posting here, we appreciate it!
The coil in the vid ... has two windings?
Rgds, Ron
edit: understood... but in this case I felt the context was lost and people needed to know, "what idea" ... you may delete this explanation after you have seen it, danke schon
Quote from: i_ron on June 11, 2011, 11:09:26 AM
The coil in the vid ... has two windings?
Hi RomeroUK,
the output-coil or generator coil in the video comes from a microwave oven fan and you rewound it?
Now it has two windings/coils on the old core?
One is clockwise and the other anti-clockwise?
So one would think the two produced signals add up to Zero or "cancel each other"!
But the arrangement actually produces power bursts, when the passing magnets FLIP the core's magnetization, producing signals in two coils - wound on a single core.
The power-output reaches maximum levels at certain rotor speeds:
At these ideal rotor speeds the FLIPPING frequency created by the passing magnets is in resonance with the delay that occurs between the clockwise and anti-clockwise windings which are connected in series.
It is the delay between the two signals, which is due to the length of the wound wire, that prevents cancellation ? (Struggling for words)?
Quote from: oscar on June 11, 2011, 11:55:48 AM
Hi RomeroUK,
the output-coil or generator coil in the video comes from a microwave oven fan and you rewound it?
Now it has two windings/coils on the old core?
One is clockwise and the other anti-clockwise?
So one would think the two produced signals add up to Zero or "cancel each other"!
But the arrangement actually produces power bursts, when the passing magnets FLIP the core's magnetization, producing signals in two coils - wound on a single core.
The power-output reaches maximum levels at certain rotor speeds:
At these ideal rotor speeds the FLIPPING frequency created by the passing magnets is in resonance with the delay that occurs between the clockwise and anti-clockwise windings which are connected in series.
It is the delay between the two signals, which is due to the length of the wound wire, that prevents cancellation ? (Struggling for words)?
Hi,
the coil is from a microwave fan and I did rewound it
I cannot confirm or deny the other questions but I can tell you that I had to rewound that coil many times to get it right and used it in many experiments to compare it with other normal cores.
that particular coil is an expensive one, not because of what I did with it but because it uses Mumetal core I made from mumetal sheets. probably it is arround £200
below is a picture with coils and cores I use for the testing before going to start another project
I am working now for more coils direct wound on the core.
konehead posted a very important tip... to have them wound direct on the core and we get much better results - he was right, tested and yes, I can confirm that makes a big difference
This is the reason I am using selfbonding wire now.
Thank you konehead!
Hi Romero,
Of the different cores you have used, which give you the best results?
Thanks!
Quote from: 4Tesla on June 11, 2011, 06:00:47 PM
Hi Romero,
Of the different cores you have used, which give you the best results?
Thanks!
Nothing better than mumetal but irondust ones are good enough for NSNS orientation and not too good for a rotor with all poles in one direction.
For solid state DC pulsing, MuMetal cannot be replaced with anything, the difference is huge. I wonder how it works in a standard Kromrey setup.
The big square coil in the picture posted before has a big solid mumetal core inside. I can take the core out and replace it with 2 other cores same dimension I have, ferrite and irondust, this way I can compare them and do more testing.
I am not talking about homemade irondust, I bought them all, proper stuff.
Home made I used in some Microwave fan coils and in some Bedini projects.
I also used irondust to make a big ring with holes around, for another type of generator, replication of a patent from the internet...
I can say that irondust ones are better than any ferrite tested so far, now it depends what is going to be used for.
Have a look at the prices of mumetal here in UK. http://www.goodfellow.com/catalogue/GFCAT4.php?ewd_token=6NKOmHMvvby35MC7vIxKR83q3DRLzK&n=bV6txUGvOJIhGeYeKEfqFtZ8hlUwiW
I bought from them few times but still China is better for the price but must wait a lot.
Clanzer said he bought from them too.
I cannot even tell you how much I paid for the big mumetal core..., 10cm long /2.5cm/4cm. I could have stayed a week in a good and nice hotel with all 'services' included
All the best,
Romero
Quote from: tagor on June 11, 2011, 01:23:45 AM
edit by moderator:
Romero's video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkV2Y4Yke4I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkV2Y4Yke4I)
shorting a generator coil:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRyKVU6YzYw
Hi Romero
In your latest video you mentioned of hard disk magnets which im using right now
With NS top and SN bottom configuration what trigger and driver circuit that can be adapted to this ?????
Also im trying to use microwave oven berrilium oxide magnets instead of neodyne
but will try the shorting of coils again any advise on the circuit driver and trigger
My objective is to have a ??? kw gen
[IMG=http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/346/mullergenpics120611009.jpg]http://[/img] (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/718/mullergenpics120611009.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
thanks
totoalas
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg69.imageshack.us%2Fimg69%2F6977%2Fmullergenpics120611001.th.jpg&hash=54370c28a3c00770da6475135818766a7d5743c1) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/69/mullergenpics120611001.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
Quote from: 4Tesla on June 11, 2011, 06:00:47 PM
Hi Romero,
Of the different cores you have used, which give you the best results?
Thanks!
Hi Romero additional question
Besides the cores
Winding in Neogen bifilar or just bifilar by Konehead in RV mode
Which is more efficient with N S configuration?????
thanks again
totoalas
Cores depend on the frequency you wish to operate. Ferrite is good from hundreds of Khz to several Mhz so it not much use at lower frequencies as the magnetic retention on domain flips is too short.
Iron Dust is best for lots of Khz thus is use in switch mode PSU's typically running from 25khz to 90Khz after that the iron dust actually can not respond fast enough for domain flipping. A small 1" core can handle as much as 1000 watts without saturating.
Standard transformer especially large ones are excellent for low frequency work. A 1000KVA utility transformer is >98% efficient. You will see excellent results working with large transformers over 500VA and will work very nice from 20Hz to 450 Hz is about the upper range. Use variable pulse width, frequency and amplitude drivers to make KVARS's
You will really struggle working with tiny little cores solid state systems when the switching events have to take place at very HF creates all kinds of problems and tuning becomes a real bitch.
Quote from: bolt on June 12, 2011, 11:26:35 AM
Iron Dust is best for lots of Khz thus is use in switch mode PSU's typically running from 25khz to 90Khz after that the iron dust actually can not respond fast enough for domain flipping. A small 1" core can handle as much as 1000 watts without saturating.
For some real data:
http://www.micrometals.com/materials_index.html
Iron powder suitable from several KHz up to 1 Ghz.
You're probably mixing up with permeability differences.
Quote from: totoalas on June 12, 2011, 10:03:33 AM
Hi Romero additional question
Besides the cores
Winding in Neogen bifilar or just bifilar by Konehead in RV mode
Which is more efficient with N S configuration?????
thanks again
totoalas
Winding in Tesla-Neogen bifilar is really the best for generator and for the driver coils but not easy to make the coils like that. I have made 2 coils just to test them but I spent almost 4 hours to do them and wasted a lot of selfbonding wire.
I am in the process of making many coils directly wound on the irondust core. I will post pictures with them next week. In NN config I find iron dust better than ferrite but in NS config the difference is not that high but still irondust is better.
Today I have just finished milling a rotor made from nylon66 and I am preparing another Acrylic rotor for a different config.
No more work today!
Quote from: teslaalset on June 12, 2011, 12:06:44 PM
For some real data:
http://www.micrometals.com/materials_index.html
Iron powder suitable from several KHz up to 1 Ghz.
You're probably mixing up with permeability differences.
No im generalising without going into exotic iron mix like carbonyl iron with ceramics can run to a Ghz. But in practical terms anything over a couple of megs is already heading towards air cores. As Ismael uses Tesla bifilar Air-Cores for his MEG.
Wiki
"Iron Powdered cores made of hydrogen reduced iron have higher permeability but lower Q. They are used mostly for electromagnetic interference filters and low-frequency chokes, mainly in switched-mode power supplies.
[edit]Ferrite
Main article: Ferrite (magnet)
Ferrite ceramics are used for high-frequency applications. The ferrite materials can be engineered with a wide range of parameters. As ceramics, they are essentially insulators, which prevents eddy currents, although losses such as hysteresis losses can still occur.
So unless you have an incredibly fast rotor its probably going to work better with iron powder while the old AM LW MW radios used ferrite rods, slugs and cores for these frequencies and certainly not iron powder.
Mu-metal is pretty powerful stuff and as romero said VERY expensive. Don Smith used a lot of Mu-metal as well as another type which is around 10 times the cost of Mu-metal i cant think of the name right now, Mu-metal has permeabilities of 80,000â€"100,000. There is a trade off for materials there is no point making a 15 watt OU device that will take 200 years to pay for itself:)
Quote from: bolt on June 12, 2011, 01:26:01 PM
No im generalising without going into exotic iron mix like carbonyl iron with ceramics can run to a Ghz. But in practical terms anything over a couple of megs is already heading towards air cores. As Ismael uses Tesla bifilar Air-Cores for his MEG.
Wiki
"Iron Powdered cores made of hydrogen reduced iron have higher permeability but lower Q. They are used mostly for electromagnetic interference filters and low-frequency chokes, mainly in switched-mode power supplies.
[edit]Ferrite
Main article: Ferrite (magnet)
Ferrite ceramics are used for high-frequency applications. The ferrite materials can be engineered with a wide range of parameters. As ceramics, they are essentially insulators, which prevents eddy currents, although losses such as hysteresis losses can still occur.
So unless you have an incredibly fast rotor its probably going to work better with iron powder while the old AM LW MW radios used ferrite rods, slugs and cores for these frequencies and certainly not iron powder.
Mu-metal is pretty powerful stuff and as romero said VERY expensive. Don Smith used a lot of Mu-metal as well as another type which is around 10 times the cost of Mu-metal i cant think of the name right now, Mu-metal has permeabilities of 80,000â€"100,000. There is a trade off for materials there is no point making a 15 watt OU device that will take 200 years to pay for itself:)
Ok, thanks for elaborating a bit on that, although I prefer real data instead of Wiki stuff, I've used iron powder cores at pretty high frequencies myself (e.g. Bob Boyce hex controlled iron powder core )
For now, I think we better stick to ferrite and try to replicate what has been shown, before going into exotic materials without necessity.
Quote from: REDCAR1957 on June 12, 2011, 01:35:11 PM
Romero
have you tried what same type core material that John B
used?
welding rods
KC
Welding rods are a real terrible hack! They provide a little extra inductance suitable for only very low switching speeds. <20Hz They make work fine for bedini bicycle wheels spinning a couple hundred RPM but any higher the eddy losses are chronic. Get decent cores suitable for the job.
I have used welding rods for some of the Bedini as probably many others here, but tried and used different materials too.
Below is a circuit diagram I modified and used recently.
Dose it really speed up , or is it just the core drag that is eliminated ?
@Romerouk . You speak of using iron dust cores . Does this iron dust come as a powder , or in a solid form . Also have you tried Iron oxide [Fe3o4] please ?
Quote from: neptune on June 12, 2011, 03:57:10 PM
@Romerouk . You speak of using iron dust cores . Does this iron dust come as a powder , or in a solid form . Also have you tried Iron oxide [Fe3o4] please ?
Hi Neptune,
I have tried everything possible. Some of the cores I made I used Iron oxide coming as a powder then I mixed with resin..
The round cores you see in the picture I posted yesterday I bought them, I have about 30 of them.
Are used in audio inductors for HIFI Systems and are of a high super quality.
@ Penno
At one time I was close to melt the coils but I think I have not affected them. In a uncontrolled selfloop you can burn everything in seconds, that was the reason for the dc/dc converter.Can you believe I have tried a easy way using a 7812 first and it burned instantly :)
If you managed to see what I know you will then be careful...
Vid from diveflyfish
regarding parallel FWBRs :o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkaR9lLY1DE&feature=feedu
Quote from: TEKTRON on June 12, 2011, 07:37:57 PM
Vid from diveflyfish
regarding parallel FWBRs :o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkaR9lLY1DE&feature=feedu
Thank you, i have just looked at it now.
I would like to see this test done again with a load. I have someone here and on youtube (User2718218)who thinks that is no benefit at all having diodes in parallel.
This person talks in very elevated technical words, maybe he is a clever guy but today he addressed a lot of injuries to me and I will just love to pay it pack nicely with a good demonstration and shut his mouth or learn how to speak.
Mister User2718218 I am maybe not as clever as you think you are but that does not make me smaller than you. I am just a simple and normal person, I am not pretending to be the Great man, The Big man,... as you said in your unlimited posts on youtube today.
We are born the same, what you have inside is the most important, that really makes a difference, Knowledge is an Addon.
Best Regards,
Romero
Hi Romero,
pay no attention to that user, that is "Milehigh". the coward of OU debunker want-to-be's.
I have seen the increase myself, that was one of the first things I did after watching your vids. I see skycollection put some on his new coils :)
Patrick
Quote from: bolt on June 12, 2011, 01:26:01 PM
Mu-metal is pretty powerful stuff and as romero said VERY expensive. Don Smith used a lot of Mu-metal as well as another type which is around 10 times the cost of Mu-metal i cant think of the name right now, Mu-metal has permeabilities of 80,000â€"100,000. There is a trade off for materials there is no point making a 15 watt OU device that will take 200 years to pay for itself:)
I believe it was Terfenol-D. Somewhere in the vicinity of $5000 for a small rod.
Quote from: romerouk on June 12, 2011, 09:02:05 PM
Thank you, i have just looked at it now.
I would like to see this test done again with a load. I have someone here and on youtube (User2718218)who thinks that is no benefit at all having diodes in parallel.
This person talks in very elevated technical words, maybe he is a clever guy but today he addressed a lot of injuries to me and I will just love to pay it pack nicely with a good demonstration and shut his mouth or learn how to speak.
Mister User2718218 I am maybe not as clever as you think you are but that does not make me smaller than you. I am just a simple and normal person, I am not pretending to be the Great man, The Big man,... as you said in your unlimited posts on youtube today.
We are born the same, what you have inside is the most important, that really makes a difference, Knowledge is an Addon.
Best Regards,
Romero
You can always block a certain user from your youtube channel or delete posts.
As soon as someone calls you names or just tries to steal your time in a non-constructive manner,
it's time to just put him on the ban-list. Saves your nerves enormously and it's your good right.
Keep it up
By the way: 1 simple question. Can you verify the connections on your special
coil you once posted? There is some controversy about the diode directions and what rail they are connected to. I think it is a very interesting connection and might even try it out, before making my opinion about it.
@xenomorphlabs
Hi,
I have posted this picture only for a second or two then I removed it. I saw that someone made a copy very quick :) I realized that it should not be posted especially at that time...
I can tell you that it will do nice work, this is a different form of energy transfer but as it is in the picture will not work for these rotating magnets... this was made for solid state device, high frequency.
Bruce did some testing withe the same ideea but you need to change the order of the diodes on the right hand side.
people pay attention to 'bolt' posting, he is describing another way to do this and he is right, actually using capacitors will take you there more easy, if not, you need to build the coils according to many factors to replace what the capacitors will do.
@RomeroUK,
So, you basically told us the wrong way in the beginning?
1) No extra capacitors in the circuit, otherwise you had told us
2) No hints towards special winding?
I strongly doubt that. I think you were very to the point back then.
I hope you are sincere about this and not trying to get us off the hook on purpose.
To be honest I have the impression you were more trustworthy at the start of all this and not being straight forward right now.
With all respect.
Quote from: teslaalset on June 13, 2011, 05:12:12 PM
@RomeroUK,
So, you basically told us the wrong way in the beginning?
1) No extra capacitors in the circuit, otherwise you had told us
2) No hints towards special winding?
I strongly doubt that. I think you were very to the point back then.
I hope you are sincere about this and not trying to get us off the hook on purpose.
To be honest I have the impression you were more trustworthy at the start of all this and not being straight forward right now.
With all respect.
And Romero posted this just before...
people pay attention to 'bolt' posting, he is describing another way to do this and he is right, actually using capacitors will take you there more easy, if not, you need to build the coils according to many factors to replace what the capacitors will do.
From this I assume the coils need to be bifi, err 7fi ? ;]
Thats the only way I know to add capacitance without actual caps added. ;] Of which, Romero would be correct in stating that adding real caps would be easier, as a bifi or 7fi might be difficult to achieve the same capacitance per coil unless they are wound very neatly and consistent to each other. And even then may need tuning.
Mags
Hi teslaalset,
Magluvin just answered your question. In my other setup the coils were capacitors too(maybe not the right way to describe it but I hope you understand)
If my ideas are not good enough I can keep quiet too. I said many times that everyone should test things themself, before jumping to conclusions, then decide to build something or not.I have been wrong many times too, I am not a master in this, I am in learning mode too.
I found some posts on the forum being amazing and helped me to understand things that I have not understood before.
Since my first post I learned more about that effect and I still do.Lately I have changed many things as I am looking to get it in a different way.For that I do lots of experiments daily as I don't want to waste expensive parts and change again if I am not happy with the build.I have just got many coils worth £360. I will post a picture but I don't have them at home. I don't do much work at home now.
All the best,
Romero
I think your doing fine Romero. ;]
Now to figure how the bifi style coil was configured....
Does anyone have the same 7 strand wire as Romero?
How many ohms, 300 turns, 7 strands in parallel?
How many ohms single strand?
How many ohms prescribed per coil?
Mags
hmmm 7 strands would make an odd and even pair of windings.
Maybe 1 strand shorted, and 3 and 3 bifi?
I remember Zeropoint's self spinning sphere. The coil was 4000 turns of like 26awg and 30awg something like that, so maybe 4 and 3 strands bifi? Or all 7 in series?
Mags
Quote from: teslaalset on June 13, 2011, 05:12:12 PM
@RomeroUK,
So, you basically told us the wrong way in the beginning?
1) No extra capacitors in the circuit, otherwise you had told us
2) No hints towards special winding?
I strongly doubt that. I think you were very to the point back then.
I hope you are sincere about this and not trying to get us off the hook on purpose.
To be honest I have the impression you were more trustworthy at the start of all this and not being straight forward right now.
With all respect.
We have no idea what agreement Romerouk has made but I don't think there is any reason to be tossing around concerns about trustworthiness. He has since coming back mostly asked us to validate certain concepts for ourselves through experimentation that would not cost much. That implies he is here to help as anything we learn through a validating experiment is as good as gold both for learning concepts and for proof that an idea works in the real world. My sense is he's probably even sticking his neck out a bit to be here at all. I'm grateful for anything he can share with us from his years of experimenting.
There are enough smart people around here that I don't think he would get away with giving misleading info even if he wanted to. And that would seriously hurt his credibility if he did. So I don't expect that is going on at all.
Mags I think those who got the same 7 strand wire size were getting around 2 Ohms on a sewing machine size spool but I believe they weren't quite getting 300 winds on it.
Well, I took a look at some pics, and cant see evidence of separation of strands to multifi. It looks as if all 7 in a bundle go to the bridge input.
Sooo an alternative would be that the bifi link, where the 2 windings of 7 strands are somewhere in the coil or on it, and just the working ends are sent to the bridge.
So 150 turns of each? That would be a tough config to stumble upon.
2 ohms? is that what Romero claimed? For some reason I remember 5 ohm. Not like I havnt been wrong before. ;]
Magz
It's in the almost 200 page thread somewhere ... :) I seem to remember it being about 2 ohms and some others that were close in making early coils had close to that if they had the same Litz wire. But my formerly photographic memory is a bit fuzzy these days so don't take my word on it.
BTW I posted this in the main thread but no takers so maybe Romero or someone here might like to take a guess on this plan:
I've got a bunch of old hard drive magnets that are mounted on Mu metal. I've got a good metal bandsaw and I thought about knocking off the magnets and cutting the Mu metal pieces into strips about wide enough to put 3 or 4 into a coil core. I think I could probably get about 2 cores per piece of Mu metal. This band saw has been good for even cutting 0.30" thick Titanium so I don't think it will have any problem cutting the Mu metal. Does anyone see any problems with this idea? It will be a slow process but a couple hours of cutting I think will yield enough for all the coils. They would probably be a 1/8" x 1/8" x coil length (about 5/8" long) and I think I'd tape several pieces together for each core.
Is that what is in the HD that the magnets are on?
Better to use a dremel with a cutting wheel. You can get nice cuts with patients and not waste the material. ;]
I have been throwing away mumetal?
Hmm
Soo, if 2 ohm, then the coil is wound bifi, no separation of strands. The series connection is made on the coil itself somewhere. That will mean a rewind for some. I would try a couple first. ;]
Mags
Quote from: e2matrix on June 14, 2011, 01:10:18 AM
It's in the almost 200 page thread somewhere ... :) I seem to remember it being about 2 ohms and some others that were close in making early coils had close to that if they had the same Litz wire. But my formerly photographic memory is a bit fuzzy these days so don't take my word on it.
BTW I posted this in the main thread but no takers so maybe Romero or someone here might like to take a guess on this plan:
I've got a bunch of old hard drive magnets that are mounted on Mu metal. I've got a good metal bandsaw and I thought about knocking off the magnets and cutting the Mu metal pieces into strips about wide enough to put 3 or 4 into a coil core. I think I could probably get about 2 cores per piece of Mu metal. This band saw has been good for even cutting 0.30" thick Titanium so I don't think it will have any problem cutting the Mu metal. Does anyone see any problems with this idea? It will be a slow process but a couple hours of cutting I think will yield enough for all the coils. They would probably be a 1/8" x 1/8" x coil length (about 5/8" long) and I think I'd tape several pieces together for each core.
much better is to cut stripes from foil like this
http://cgi.ebay.com/Mumetal-magnetic-shielding-sheet-/320711045986?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aabde3362#ht_500wt_1156
Does anyone have some good pics of a coil?
Maybe we can see detail of if its bifi.
In this pic, the upper right one looks too have 2 wires coming from the core outward, and in the other coils I tend to see the output wires not coming from the rotor side surface of the core.
Mags
One final set of remarks from my side on this capacitor thingy and then I will stop nagging.
Earlier yesterday I posted in the main OU discussion thread that multifilar wire ( = litze) probably includes a capacitance of several tenths of pF (see http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3842.2940 , reply #2940).
Quite different from the uF range values that others came up with.
It would be good to just having confirmed that multifilar is the way to go, rather then expressing the same thing as some sort of special winding is necessary to get added capacitance in the coil. Most of the forum member have no clue what you're talking about.
Advising in a too cryptical way will lead to even more cluttered discussions.
I am seeking for some kind of confirmation on my estimation that we have a few tenths of pF here.
Anyone with a trustworthy (;)) link?
[update]
Interesting links I found myself:
http://www.westbay.ndirect.co.uk/capacita.htm
http://www.magnetricity.com/NeoG/Bifilar.php (in particular fig 2 raises questions when projected to a 7 strand mutifilar coil as we are suppose to use)
I have email the wire mfg and requested the specs on the wire Romero used.
Will post their response.
From my notes at the time , Romero quoted the resistance of each coil as 1.7 to 2 ohms . Some one suggested on one of the threads to cause the coil to "ring" and use a scope to find its resonant frequency . We do not all have scopes . If someone with a scope can do this ,and tell us what the ideal resonant frequency is , there are easier cheaper ways to measure it . One way would be to connect the coil , with its added cap if any , into a one transistor radio frequency oscillator , and listen for it on a receiver . Or for those with radio tech experience , use a grid dip oscillator .
If we work on one coil , or one coil pair at a time ,on the bench , with a means of measuring the frequency , we can tune it simply by winding it with too many turns , and remove turns until the frequency rises to the desired result .I favour the one-transistor-oscillator circuit method , and a receiver or frequency counter to measure the result .
EDIT . Maybe it will suffice to just adjust all coils to have the same frequency , as the ideal figure will be RPM dependent.
Quote from: neptune on June 14, 2011, 05:16:19 AM
From my notes at the time , Romero quoted the resistance of each coil as 1.7 to 2 ohms . Some one suggested on one of the threads to cause the coil to "ring" and use a scope to find its resonant frequency . We do not all have scopes . If someone with a scope can do this ,and tell us what the ideal resonant frequency is , there are easier cheaper ways to measure it . One way would be to connect the coil , with its added cap if any , into a one transistor radio frequency oscillator , and listen for it on a receiver . Or for those with radio tech experience , use a grid dip oscillator .
If we work on one coil , or one coil pair at a time ,on the bench , with a means of measuring the frequency , we can tune it simply by winding it with too many turns , and remove turns until the frequency rises to the desired result .I favour the one-transistor-oscillator circuit method , and a receiver or frequency counter to measure the result .
EDIT . Maybe it will suffice to just adjust all coils to have the same frequency , as the ideal figure will be RPM dependent.
Neptune, not sure if this would help but I have seen some multimeters with Frequency measuring capabilities.
For example this on sale for 19.99
http://www.kitsusa.net/phpstore/html/M-118-12-Digit-DMM-With-Capacitance-and-HFE-and-Frequency-822.html
Bill
@maw2432. Yes , such a multimeter would help . But we still need to wire the coil temporarily into an oscillator circuit to get it to oscillate . The choice of oscillator circuit is important . We cannot use a Hartley circuit because it needs a coil tap . A Colpitts circuit needs 2 external caps . There is a circuit I used about 40 years ago . It used a NPN transistor with the tuned circuit as collector load . A potential divider set the base bias , with 2 small caps in parallel with these bias resistors . At the expected frequency , a small cap , say 10pf needs to be connected between collector and emitter to provide feed back . That is all there is to it .
An altogether simpler approach is to just use a suitable meter to measure the inductance of each coil . This is not so accurate as 2 coils may have the same inductance , but different self-capacitance , and thus a different resonant frequency . So I think the above oscillator will be the answer . Perhaps someone could draw a diagram with suitable component values , as I am not able to do this , and have only used this circuit at Very High Frequencies .
FYI, I posted an update of my previous reply with some interesting links.
Romero or all,
I remember you saying that rotor perfection is critical. I also remember you saying to space your magnets and coils out equally. Well due to the failure of my last experiment, 1 magnets width between each magnet is nowhere near enough. LOL. would you please tell me what is your ideal magnet spacing/config for a given rotor? Because in your newest and pre release vids the rotor you have has the magnets basically touching. So im assuming that is a n/s config. it gives an opposite pole between each magnet. But if you had all one pole there wouldnt be any switching.
Quote from: Magluvin on June 14, 2011, 01:33:50 AM
Is that what is in the HD that the magnets are on?
Better to use a dremel with a cutting wheel. You can get nice cuts with patients and not waste the material. ;]
I have been throwing away mumetal?
Hmm
Soo, if 2 ohm, then the coil is wound bifi, no separation of strands. The series connection is made on the coil itself somewhere. That will mean a rewind for some. I would try a couple first. ;]
Mags
Yes that is what I've been told and I checked it out with a little test and it does seem to shield the magnet field quite well. It makes sense too if you think about it since the platters in a hard drive are sensitive to magnetism and there's that very strong Neo magnet in there.
wings, thanks for the suggestion although that would run about $65 with shipping and what I've got here is free so I'll stick with this plan for now. That does remind me though I've got a roll of something that looks a lot like that picture on ebay and it was in my alternate energy box but I can't remember what it is as I bought it probably 15 years ago when I was studying some of Bruce Perreault's energy info. I'll have to look at it again as it's some sort of sheet metal with an odd feel to it.
Could you increase the effective capacitance in a coil by winding the first layer of wire in the opposite direction of the remainder of the windings? This first layer is the most effective in controlling the field within the core.
Quote from: neptune on June 14, 2011, 05:16:19 AM
From my notes at the time , Romero quoted the resistance of each coil as 1.7 to 2 ohms . Some one suggested on one of the threads to cause the coil to "ring" and use a scope to find its resonant frequency . We do not all have scopes . If someone with a scope can do this ,and tell us what the ideal resonant frequency is , there are easier cheaper ways to measure it . One way would be to connect the coil , with its added cap if any , into a one transistor radio frequency oscillator , and listen for it on a receiver . Or for those with radio tech experience , use a grid dip oscillator .
If we work on one coil , or one coil pair at a time ,on the bench , with a means of measuring the frequency , we can tune it simply by winding it with too many turns , and remove turns until the frequency rises to the desired result .I favour the one-transistor-oscillator circuit method , and a receiver or frequency counter to measure the result .
EDIT . Maybe it will suffice to just adjust all coils to have the same frequency , as the ideal figure will be RPM dependent.
Well if I ever get around to winding some coils I can put it on my frequency generator and scope to find a resonant frequency. That would also be interesting to see if there's a difference between ferrite and the Mu metal idea I'm thinking about.
Quote from: redrichie on June 14, 2011, 08:44:45 AM
Romero or all,
I remember you saying that rotor perfection is critical. I also remember you saying to space your magnets and coils out equally. Well due to the failure of my last experiment, 1 magnets width between each magnet is nowhere near enough. LOL. would you please tell me what is your ideal magnet spacing/config for a given rotor? Because in your newest and pre release vids the rotor you have has the magnets basically touching. So im assuming that is a n/s config. it gives an opposite pole between each magnet. But if you had all one pole there wouldnt be any switching.
In a NN or SS config the spacing between the magnets is very important. we have a virtual pole in between the magnets but u can have 2 virtual poles too.
The recent video uses NS and that is different from my original build.I am trying to use single wire now with capacitors, this way is more easy, less tunning and does not require to take the coils out one thousand times.
What u see in the recent video is a new approach to be implemented in a new generator type I am building now.Until I have proof that it is working ok I will not post info about it as people will jump again to replicate and spend money.
Before release I will make sure I will have invited some people u all know here to confirm or deny it, of course, if I can make it again :)
Muller design as it is, it's not a very efficient generator without all these tweaking.This new build will have a good eficiency before any tweaking, that should make my life easier.
Regards all,
Romero
Quote from: teslaalset on June 14, 2011, 03:28:55 AM
One final set of remarks from my side on this capacitor thingy and then I will stop nagging.
Earlier yesterday I posted in the main OU discussion thread that multifilar wire ( = litze) probably includes a capacitance of several tenths of pF (see http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3842.2940 , reply #2940).
Quite different from the uF range values that others came up with.
It would be good to just having confirmed that multifilar is the way to go, rather then expressing the same thing as some sort of special winding is necessary to get added capacitance in the coil. Most of the forum member have no clue what you're talking about.
Advising in a too cryptical way will lead to even more cluttered discussions.
I am seeking for some kind of confirmation on my estimation that we have a few tenths of pF here.
Anyone with a trustworthy (;)) link?
[update]
Interesting links I found myself:
http://www.westbay.ndirect.co.uk/capacita.htm
http://www.magnetricity.com/NeoG/Bifilar.php (in particular fig 2 raises questions when projected to a 7 strand mutifilar coil as we are suppose to use)
Ya know, I cannot say for sure. And probably Romero cannot say for sure. ;] Though he did confirm my guess.
To make a set of bifi should not be hard to do and try, even just to eliminate that option.
I have a couple bifi, single strand per winding, and they are into the 10s of nf, .05 uf down to .011 uf. Thats not pf. And I imagine being the stranded wire has more surface area, possibly more capacity could be had with it.
I would prefer, under these circumstances, an even no. of strands in the litz. This way you can mix up the wires in the litz to bifi, and the 2 separate windings will be in closer proximity and increase the capacitance even further.
I can imagine getting into the high 10s or low 100s of nf this way.
Be careful. lol if you happen to measure capacitance across just 1 coil, not from 1 and the other, you may read 1 or more uf . I cannot say this would be an accurate representation of capacitance of a single coil. ;]
After all this work, I would give it a shot.
I just saw Lidmotors walk around vid. Does he know about the advantage paralleling diodes has? I see only the 6A si. That may be what he needs. ;]
Mags
Inductance of a coil is a function of the core permeability and the number of turns are the main factors. A "special" coil can be wound where each of the litz wire strands can be separated to provide several higher frequency lower inductance windings or phases. Each end of the wire can be Averenko Diode Plugged. As each magnetic pulse of the passing neo magnetic flux produces "copies" of each winding which is why the voltage increases with the number of turns or each litz strand can produce its own individual excited elements with many other copies of the same joules of each wire strand without any degradation of the magnetic flux path.
Its important to note its not required to go looking for the frequency to be tuned TO as each strand has self capacitance of a couple of pf's and each length of wire represents a wavelength, The energy from each wavelength (which will all be quite different to each other) is diode plugged and aggregated to a common o/p rather like a multi-tuned xtal radio.
I read in the past several expired patents using this process and can also lead to O.U motors and generators which can be rewound taking as many phases from the rotor as practical and terminating the ends of the wires in diode plugs. Remember now cast you mind back when Romero said a few weeks ago Model RC 3 phase motors are already 97% efficient. They can be easy converted to 6 phases diode plugged on each strand and probably can go OU. They already have a perfect rotor with neos and professional castings. Hector says find large commercial perm mag motors and convert to out-runners and diode plug all the wires as alike 21 phases provides hundred of watts OU.
Anyway bottom line YES its worthy of further bench testing.
@Bolt . Who is Hector please ? In your last paragraph , you talked about large permanent motor . What type of motor is this , are we talking a conventional brush type , or a larger version of the 3 phase model aircraft motor ? Hundreds of watts OU ? This is fascinating, but without more practical information and a circuit diagam , including the Avramenko plug circuit , no one can build anything . By converting to an outrunner , I assume that means fixing the shaft to a solid support and allowing the motor`s outer casing to spin . Your comments would be appreciated .
Quote from: neptune on June 14, 2011, 02:02:22 PM
@Bolt . Who is Hector please ? In your last paragraph , you talked about large permanent motor . What type of motor is this , are we talking a conventional brush type , or a larger version of the 3 phase model aircraft motor ? Hundreds of watts OU ? This is fascinating, but without more practical information and a circuit diagam , including the Avramenko plug circuit , no one can build anything . By converting to an outrunner , I assume that means fixing the shaft to a solid support and allowing the motor`s outer casing to spin . Your comments would be appreciated .
AC or DC perm mag motor brushed or brush-less you can convert to an out-runner. Fix the shaft then rewind the coils so all the ends come out as separate phases to the existing armature pins. Now diode plug all the phases to a common DC BUS so you can convert a DC 2 brushes 21 pole motor to a 21 phase brush-less DC out-runner generator. You will notice now that the power can be taken off any phase at any time as there are no brushes. Each phase is constantly being pulsed by the now spinning neo magnets as the outer casing spins instead. As each phase is electrically isolated there is no cross conduction and each phase can "ring" producing 21 times the energy.
PS this is NOT a Toy its a commercial application capable of producing hundreds if not many KW's pending motor size. Im told as a guide you can get up to 10 times the old plated rating so a 5kw motor can become a 50KW generator.
Image courtesy ARK Research.
Quote from: neptune on June 14, 2011, 02:02:22 PM
[..]
without more practical information and a circuit diagam , including the Avramenko plug circuit , no one can build anything . By converting to an outrunner , I assume that means fixing the shaft to a solid support and allowing the motor`s outer casing to spin
[...]
hi Neptune
is this what you meant by your coil oscillation test circuit? (see below)
Hector is the main man wrt 'Rotovertor' technology
Avramenko plug is a capacitor connected across half a FWBR - two diodes, connected in series, both reverse polarity if using an electrolytic - fed with just ONE wire from a pulsing, or HF, circuit into the mid-point of the two diodes
an 'outrunner' is like that R/C motor we were all discussing way back - axial coils in the fixed stator, mag segments around a 'bell-like' outer rotor with a spindle going into a bearing in the centre of the all the coil radii - HavDad showed a video of one that he'd modified into a Genny a month back or so
hope this helps!
np
http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
There's a few things that experimenters should realize concerning coils (if they don't already):
1) Litz wire is used for coils when it comes to high frequency applications that require HIGH Q VALUES, which means that you want the ratio of inductance/resistance to be high. Why do you want a high Q value? So you can tune to a particular frequency and have great selectrivity (it tunes very sharply) and amplification as in AM radio tank circuits. The multistrand Litz wire achives these objectives because it has a lower AC RESISTENCE (as compared to DC resistance.) AC resistance is limited by the SKIN EFFECT, and this effect limits the usable cross section of the coil wire that carries the current, so using lots of tiny wires in parallel lowers the AC resistance, and thiner wires can than be used that carry current across their whole cross-section, so a better utilization of the wire. However, we can achive the same lower AC resistance with regular solid wire, but unfortunately you will use thicker wires (because resistance is proportional to the circumference of the wire multiplied by the skin depth) but the inside of the wire does not conduct current and is a useless volume and mass and $ wasted especialy with copper prices being as high as they are, so this does not make sense in a high volume manufacturing enterprise, but for experimentation who cares, right? So use of Litz wire is realy an OPTIMIZATION for high frequency opperation, but not necessarily exclusive of other methods. (for example in antennas, we use large diameter hollow tubes
2) A coil that has many layers of winding, is not only a great inductor (at low frequencies only) but becomes a great CAPACITOR at high frequencies. The capacitance is not tens of pF, but possibly hundreds if not thousands of pF depending on size and number of layers. As the frequency of operation goes up high, from circuit theory we know the impedance of inductors (jwL) goes UP, but for a capacitor (1/jwC) goes DOWN. So, the equivalent circuit for a typical coil in Romer's dynamo, is realy a capacitor in parallel with an inductor and resistor in series. So at high frequencies the inductance + resistance is shunted by the capacitance and is realy not effective at all !
3) A comment about the dyanamo operation: As I mentioned in my other posts, the pulses from the coils occur at a high frequency , for example 5.76 kHz at 2400 RPM. So we are operating at somewhat high frequencies but not too teribly high. There are charts out there that show what size wire is necessary as a function of frequency and 100% skin depth. (http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm) From this chart, a solid wire of 0.8128 mm diameter is good up to 27 kHz, before the skin depth starts to limit the cross-section of the wire that conducts current (and hence the AC resistance starts decreasing relative to the DC resistance, but up to 27 kHz, AC and DC resistance are pretty much EQUAL) The bottom line, no need to use Litz wire! (unless something magical happens unaccounted by theory, of course)
EM
PS, In my opinion, the interesting phenomena in this motor is
1) the short pulsing at high frequency, which is a type of COIL SHORTING at max voltage, and
2) the rapid speed of coil magnet alignments at a speed faster than the rotor speed, due to the 8/9 magnet to coil ratio, as I explained in other posts.
@EMdevices .That was a good solid post , full of wisdom ,but there is one point that needs consideration . You quote a frequency of5.76 kHz at 2400 RPM . However there is a sort of concensus that Romero`s machine worked at around 1200 RPM . So, a frequency of 2.88 KHz . Problem is , how did you arrive at that figure . There is a theory doing the rounds that the the "magnetic events" happening at a given coil happen at 8 times as often as would appear at first glance . This is due to even number of magnets and odd number of coils . If you did not factor this in , then frequency becomes 8x2.88 KHz or 23.04 KHz . and this does not take into account the possible importance of harmonics . So Litz might yet be beneficial . Your comments please?
This can be built with one solid wire too but we need to use capacitors...
Below are pictures with some of the coils I am going to use in my new project, single wire. Not all are ready, more work to be done.
That looks like some nice big coils Romerouk. At least I think I'm seeing fairly large coils. Hopefully some real generating power there !
Neptune, you don't want to know about Hector unless you can handle some really harsh language and a slightly crazy sounding guy. He does seem to have the mastery though on Rotoverters. From what I've read though it's not an easy project unless you are bolt (or konehead or Hector) :D
@nul-points . Many thanks for your help in drawing the circuit diagram . My skills did not allow me to do it . Suggested component values .
Transistor is any small signal NPN , eg 2N2222 etc
c1 and c2 are10 nf
R1 =100k
R2 10k
C3 -10pf to 47 pf .
The capacitor values may not be the best but it will work . Supply is 9 volts .
L1 is your coil under test . Measure output frequency with a frequency counter .
@e2matrix . Fierce language and a bit crazy ,eh ? Are you sure you are not confusing him with me ?
Quote from: romerouk on June 14, 2011, 03:20:24 PM
This can be built with one solid wire too but we need to use capacitors...
Below are pictures with some of the coils I am going to use in my new project, single wire. Not all are ready, more work to be done.
Hello friend, where can i get these small holeless ferrite beads in the uk? i have taken out 1 of the same one from an old pc powersuppliy, but, i have looked on ebay maplin and everywhere and i cant get them.. :S
Quote from: neptune on June 14, 2011, 02:51:13 PM
@EMdevices .That was a good solid post , full of wisdom ,but there is one point that needs consideration . You quote a frequency of5.76 kHz at 2400 RPM . However there is a sort of concensus that Romero`s machine worked at around 1200 RPM . So, a frequency of 2.88 KHz . Problem is , how did you arrive at that figure . There is a theory doing the rounds that the the "magnetic events" happening at a given coil happen at 8 times as often as would appear at first glance . This is due to even number of magnets and odd number of coils . If you did not factor this in , then frequency becomes 8x2.88 KHz or 23.04 KHz . and this does not take into account the possible importance of harmonics . So Litz might yet be beneficial . Your comments please?
I did a more complete mathematical analysis in the other tread, but I'll repeat the basic calculation here (assuming all 9 coils are generator coils).
1) As the rotor turns, every 5 deg of rotation a new magnet and coil align. (because 360/8 = 45 and 360/9 = 40, so 45-40 = 5 deg difference)
2) So, in one rotation of the rotor, 360/5 = 72 magnet-coil alignments take place ( these alignments have a higher velocity than the rotor, somebody posted an animated GIF file showing this phenomena, it's worth seeing.)
3) Each magnet-coil alignment produces 2 pulses, one positive and one negative, so 72*2 = 144 pulses per one revolution of the rotor. (because rectification doubles the frequency)
4) So at an RPM of 2400, we get: 144 * 2400/60 = 5760 pulses per second, or 5.76 kHzThis was just an example, I realize that he operated at much lower speeds when powered at 4.5 volts.
I agree with the harmonic principles, good point. However I will say that most of the energy is in the fundamental.
EM
@EMdevices . Absolutely spot on old chap! I am not the world`s best mathematician . However might I point out what may be a small mistake in your maths ? You say that as a magnet passes a coil , it causes 2 pulses ,one positive and one negative . You then proceed to calculate the number of pulses . However , in a Alternating current , one positive pulse followed by one negative pulse equals one cycle . So your final answer needs to be divided by 2 to give the correct frequency , being 2.88 Khz . I realise that this gives even more weight to your original argument against the necessity for litz . Also note the aRomero is using plain wire in his new project , albeit with a cap added . Feel free to correct me if I am wrong on the maths .
Doh ! just realised what you said about rectification doubling the frequency . Sorry .
(because rectification doubles the frequency)
neptune, did you notice the above sentance in my previous post? His FWBR rectifies the sine wave. these are pulses into the output capacitor from all the coils.
EM
P.S. Oh I just saw your edit. I'm glad you notice it, but good question none the less.
Sorry EM . Failed to spot that!
@Bolt . Many thanks for info re the permanent magnet motor mod . This is doable but would invove lathe work to arrange that the spinning mass is on 2 bearings . Big question is , is the result OU . 10 times the ouput is good , but what effect would this have on the input .
Quote from: neptune on June 14, 2011, 04:57:24 PM
@Bolt . Many thanks for info re the permanent magnet motor mod . This is doable but would invove lathe work to arrange that the spinning mass is on 2 bearings . Big question is , is the result OU . 10 times the ouput is good , but what effect would this have on the input .
The up to 10 times rating is the power handling factor of the motor converted to so a 1kw motor can become a 10kw generator as the power is shared over ALL phases as all times. So this is NOT the COP. I don't know is the answer my guess most of these things IF they work have a COP between 2 and 10 so lets settle for 5:) Half decent size motor driving at using 1kw should give like a 5Kw output. Yes it needs machine work for bearings etc but i'm told its VERY well worth the effort. Looping stuff is very difficult even if it has very good COP. Requires DC to AC inverters usually in the feedback path and some method to control the amount of energy going around the loop to run the driver. If you stick with all DC perhaps PWM can be used. Free Energy is not FREE typically you still looking at 2 bucks a watt building from scratch. "TOYS" probably cost more like 50 bucks a watt so it scales up cheaper:)
so can anyone help me where to find these ferrites? am i being ignored?
thank you
I like the 5.76khz. 72 * 2400rpm/60 sec =2880 cps x2 because the FWB converts the negative transition to another positive transition.
No?
@energia9 . Please be patient , when the right person sees your question , someone will help you .
@EM devices and Lumen . Just had another think about this frequency thing . I think that what matters is the actual frequency of the AC in the coils rather than the frequency of the DC "ripple" after the bridge rectifier . So It is this AC frequency that will determine the need for litz . Or not . That is what I think . I would of course like to know what you think .
Quote from: EMdevices on June 14, 2011, 04:28:18 PM
(because rectification doubles the frequency)
neptune, did you notice the above sentance in my previous post? His FWBR rectifies the sine wave. these are pulses into the output capacitor from all the coils.
EM
P.S. Oh I just saw your edit. I'm glad you notice it, but good question none the less.
Perhaps you need to consider the frequency is on the AC side this is the bit that requires consideration. As the magnet passes you get one sine wave pulse so therefore this is the frequency of concern as it effects what the cap tuning capacitor value should be AND it determines the ideal core flux material to provide max permeability without saturation or eddy current losses. Whatever happens on the DC side is not so important except for impedance matching to desired load. IMO the frequencies we are going to be seeing here are best suited to Iron Powder Cores or metal alloys.
Quote from: energia9 on June 14, 2011, 03:58:33 PM
Hello friend, where can i get these small holeless ferrite beads in the uk? i have taken out 1 of the same one from an old pc powersuppliy, but, i have looked on ebay maplin and everywhere and i cant get them.. :S
You can find them on ebay as pre wound "inductors" and just remove the wire.
Mags
Anyone know if Romero used some special wind on his coils other than the wire used?
I didn't see any capacitors directly on his coils but wasn't something said about this also?
Quote from: Magluvin on June 14, 2011, 06:00:38 PM
You can find them on ebay as pre wound "inductors" and just remove the wire.
Mags
sadly i did not find any small holeless rod types, anyway, I just saw a picture from Romerouk which had coils and iron powder inside, can you, Romerouk, confirm that your effect worked with iron powder, will you?
regardz
Quote from: energia9 on June 14, 2011, 03:58:33 PM
Hello friend, where can i get these small holeless ferrite beads in the uk?
[...]
i have looked on ebay maplin and everywhere and i cant get them.. :S
...not quite 'everywhere' ;)
Farnell sell them - i got some 20x6mm OD 4B1 ferrite rods from them (they have a few other sizes & grades also)
HTH
np
http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
Quote from: energia9 on June 14, 2011, 06:33:28 PM
sadly i did not find any small holeless rod types, anyway, I just saw a picture from Romerouk which had coils and iron powder inside, can you, Romerouk, confirm that your effect worked with iron powder, will you?
regardz
It works with almost any core type, depends on the magnets orientation.The best effect after mumetal I had with irondust cores. Ferrite is good too but only in NS systems.
I bought them from a UK company specialised in HIFI systems and speakers. They don't sell them separately but I hade some orders with other stuff before and they made me a favor.You can buy the inductors they sell with wire on them and redo them yourself according to your needs.Cost is about £9 each inductor plus the wire you will need for each coil.... quite expensive.These are 19 mm diam/38 mm long
Quote from: romerouk on June 14, 2011, 06:55:22 PM
It works with almost any core type, depends on the magnets orientation.The best effect after mumetal I had with irondust cores. Ferrite is good too but only in NS systems.
I bought them from a UK company specialised in HIFI systems and speakers. They don't sell them separately but I hade some orders with other stuff before and they made me a favor.You can buy the inductors they sell with wire on them and redo them yourself according to your needs.Cost is about £9 each inductor plus the wire you will need for each coil.... quite expensive.These are 19 mm diam/38 mm long
simply, thank you
Quote from: lumen on June 14, 2011, 06:22:40 PM
Anyone know if Romero used some special wind on his coils other than the wire used?
I didn't see any capacitors directly on his coils but wasn't something said about this also?
He said i answered the question. Bifi capacitance. But he just wrote that you can add caps to you existing coils instead for the same effect. Thats why we didnt see the caps. the capacitance was in the bifi coil windings. ;]
Hmm I wonder how many of the oscillations make it to the cap. I would believe the first wave would be all that would make it, then the rest diminishing below cap voltage level.
But, maybe being in a resonant state from the git go, the first wave is beef. Saying if the freq of the rotor is in sync with getting the resonant oscillation started effectively, then that first wave can be very strong. The rest is just ringa ding ding. ;]
Me thinks. ;]
Mags
Mags
Peter made a discovery and I made a leap of thought over at the OUR forum.
start with this link and scroll down (or up)
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=862.msg14795#msg14795
ATTENTION !!! ATTENTION !!!
This RomeroUK dynamo COULD BE a MAGNETIC STORAGE FLYWHEEL!
RomeroUK, can you confirm these speculations? I'm not accusing you at all, I think you made a most important TECHNOLOGICAL DISCOVERY even if it might not be OVER UNITY !
Romero,
can you explain the use of the stepped coils similar to Mullers in the last pic you showed. I am only seeing single strand, so these coils are nothing special minus the step are they? They have no coil wound on top coming halfway down for shorting, do they?
@Emdevices.
I read your other thread. MAgnetic storage spinning vortex....so like a water vortex the flywhell is carried by more than just its mass. MAybe ED stumbled on the same effect like tortion fields. Which are pretty much out of my league. But what isnt out is my power of observation. (most of the time) LEt me ask this of you, and it may be the most unscientific, non mathematically back theory anyone has ever heard. Since Electricity is kinda like a gas or fluid I often think of water. I was running a bath for my child the other night. And as the water was about one inch deep I quickly ran my hand through the small pool of water that was forming testing out the heat. It made me think of this device. I did it again and watched the wake my hand created and there was a neat little wave pattern that look very similar to woopys magnetic viewer vid. (where is he by the way? prob with the couple of other guys that have self runners) This got me to thinking Romero has to build up speed at first. This is similar to a boat gaining speed. leaving a wake behind that the water quickly fills in. stop the boat and water can come rushing in from the Aft of the vessel. SO to make a long story short is it possible the magnet/coil spacing is accidentally designed (luck Romero called it) that once up to speed the magnets are making wakes in the electromagnetic field around the device and riding the wake kind of like migrating birds follow the one in front of it? thus there is a disturbance in the waveform that the magnet sneaks in at? Add to this crazy thought a lot of smart people with mathematics and some fantastic coil shorting and BAM. magic?
Quote from: redrichie on June 14, 2011, 11:36:03 PM
@Emdevices.
I read your other thread. MAgnetic storage spinning vortex....so like a water vortex the flywhell is carried by more than just its mass. MAybe ED stumbled on the same effect like tortion fields. Which are pretty much out of my league. But what isnt out is my power of observation. (most of the time) LEt me ask this of you, and it may be the most unscientific, non mathematically back theory anyone has ever heard. Since Electricity is kinda like a gas or fluid I often think of water. I was running a bath for my child the other night. And as the water was about one inch deep I quickly ran my hand through the small pool of water that was forming testing out the heat. It made me think of this device. I did it again and watched the wake my hand created and there was a neat little wave pattern that look very similar to woopys magnetic viewer vid. (where is he by the way? prob with the couple of other guys that have self runners) This got me to thinking Romero has to build up speed at first. This is similar to a boat gaining speed. leaving a wake behind that the water quickly fills in. stop the boat and water can come rushing in from the Aft of the vessel. SO to make a long story short is it possible the magnet/coil spacing is accidentally designed (luck Romero called it) that once up to speed the magnets are making wakes in the electromagnetic field around the device and riding the wake kind of like migrating birds follow the one in front of it? thus there is a disturbance in the waveform that the magnet sneaks in at? Add to this crazy thought a lot of smart people with mathematics and some fantastic coil shorting and BAM. magic?
There is nothing strange about requiring 12 watts to run these motors. Some people really struggle to get that low! You say it must be going somewhere but friction, heat due to bad circuit timing and losses plus plenty of wobbles!! yes that will do it.
Yes, I can design a motor that will waste 12 watts unloaded Mechanically, with a hidden resistor, but a DC motor properly designed draws very little current and power at 2000 rpm when not loaded, not 12 watts.
Bolt,
You see, one of the motor coil with the longer ON time powers the rotor clockwise, and the other with the shorter ON time feeds power into the BEMF which distorts the magnetic fields of the rotor, and when the hall turns OFF, a snapping action or magnetic wave is launched at a fast velocity, that of the rotor plus something else, and I'm starting to believe that this device might be OU after all, a type of magnetic vortex power amplifier.
EM
I am not that good to explain things like many of you here are. I can tell you that when I powered on the device with low power like 6 volts I could not get the effect but starting with 9-12 volts will bring the effect in the system then once started I can go down to 6 volts.More than 12 will kill the effect too.The best was arround 9-10 volts
Below 6 volts will strugle (listen to the video sound) making strange noises and eventualy will stop.
@EM,
Did you consider there is significant power buffering by the 47000uF capacitors?
At 12V they contain 3.4 W/s of buffered energy each.
Plus, during rotation, the coils and cores store energy too, probably in the same order of magnitude.
Just a thought.
Quote from: romerouk on June 15, 2011, 03:33:48 AM
I am not that good to explain things like many of you here are. I can tell you that when I powered on the device with low power like 6 volts I could not get the effect but starting with 9-12 volts will bring the effect in the system then once started I can go down to 6 volts.More than 12 will kill the effect too.The best was arround 9-10 volts
Below 6 volts will strugle (listen to the video sound) making strange noises and eventualy will stop.
Probably the optimum power source voltage depends on the induced voltage levels (maximum and minimum) in the generator coils.
Those coils are 'shorted' when the induced voltage surpasses the (buffer capacitor + 2 diode forward) voltage.
This determines the amount of BEMF delay and it looks like this is quite critical.
(confirmed by simulations)
Quote from: teslaalset on June 15, 2011, 04:17:59 AM
Probably the optimum power source voltage depends on the induced voltage levels (maximum and minimum) in the generator coils.
Those coils are 'shorted' when the induced voltage surpasses the (buffer capacitor + 2 diode forward) voltage.
This determines the amount of BEMF delay and it looks like this is quite critical.
(confirmed by simulations)
There is a hysteresis latching point where the coils break OU and starting generating a higher wattage then being consumed by the system. You can hear when it goes OU and is often quite noisy more of a growl. As you lower the drive voltage again it tries to hold on to the OU latching condition for perhaps 500 rpm lower then suddenly it all collapses. This is VERY typical of OU reactive systems.
Listen again to Thrapps generator starting up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ST3A4hQH8Ao&feature=related
you can hear exactly when this takes place and it also has an upper limit where you can generate too much power if the RPM gets too fast. In very high power systems you can get like a huge sonic BANG if you allow the load to suddenly collapse the ZPE flow without disconnecting prior to shutting down the system.
Quote from: bolt on June 15, 2011, 06:47:53 AM
There is a hysteresis latching point where the coils break OU and starting generating a higher wattage then being consumed by the system. You can hear when it goes OU and is often quite noisy more of a growl. As you lower the drive voltage again it tries to hold on to the OU latching condition for perhaps 500 rpm lower then suddenly it all collapses. This is VERY typical of OU reactive systems.
Listen again to Thrapps generator starting up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ST3A4hQH8Ao&feature=related
you can hear exactly when this takes place and it also has an upper limit where you can generate too much power if the RPM gets too fast. In very high power systems you can get like a huge sonic BANG if you allow the load to suddenly collapse the ZPE flow without disconnecting prior to shutting down the system.
The details of this Trapps device is completely unknown, at least to me, so any comparison doesn't make sense in my view.
You're a record holding optimist Bolt, you seem to be convinced all these devices work as advertised.
You probably follow www.peswiki.com as well.
Notice how much optimistic stories were published the last 10 years and how many entered the market successful.
Zero up till now.
I am not so convinced and I would rather keep any comparison out here and stay with both feet on the ground.
I am hopefull but not convinced due to a lack of facts and figures, that's where we differ.
@RomeroUK,
Did you apply below winding for the looped demo version?
In the figure below (side view of a coil) the blue and red wires are both 7 strand wires.
Or did you apply only a red wire version without the blue winding?
I ask this, because this would make a big difference in capacity energy stored in the coils.
The difference in capacity energy storage is a factor of around 22500, (N^2)/2 where N in this case is 300 as you indicated a few weeks ago.
This would also explain the difference between the few tens of pF of my own estimation earlier and the much higher capacity values motivated by others.
Capacity difference between both types of winding methods is a factor of around 150, N/2.
Sorry if you got hypnotized ;)
hi Romero
i notice that 2 of the 3 rotors we've seen from your builds (1 in the video, 1 as a photo) have been black, and a third one has been opaque plastic
are there more things we need to know about the 'internals' of your rotors which will help us?
eg. have you increased the inertia of the rotors by adding additional weight to them?
or have you assembled your rotor magnets from two magnets in opposition, perhaps, so that although, as you mentioned, the rotor magnets are 'South Up', they could ALSO be 'South down'?
when commenting on the 'virtual pole' between each rotor magnet you mentioned there being some more poles
if each rotor mag position contained two mags in opposition then there would be an extra 8 poles between 2 adjacent 'columns' of 2 rotor mags
S (n) S
N (s) N
(s) (n) (n) (s)
N (s) N
S (n) S
is this what you meant by more 'virtual poles'?
thanks
np
http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
The details of this Trapps device is completely unknown, at least to me, so any comparison doesn't make sense in my view.
The thrapps generator is a reactive induction generator where the poles are wired out of phase tuned with capcitors. Its a very close cousin of the muller motor.
You're a record holding optimist Bolt, you seem to be convinced all these devices work as advertised.
Not at all i only pick devices that i am sure that work. This year i have only selected RomeroUK's muller AND isamael's MEG. I don't go round with blind faith i use years of experience and understanding to reveal the truth from scam devices. As such i have helped 2 more people this week produce zero or near zero lugging mullers. I think that justifies my presenece.
You probably follow www.peswiki.com as well.
Actually i very rarely look there only to see if there are additional links or info i have missed.
Notice how much optimistic stories were published the last 10 years and how many entered the market successful.
Zero up till now.
Products that work are not automatically entered into the public arena for thousands of reasons. Just because you can not buy one from Walmarts does not mean they are fake or do not exist. Number one reason is inventors greed for making huge sums of money leads to dead locked contracts and zero progress. Romero and Isamael have a new approach of open sourcing at least a large amount of the technology which its just starting to bring the technology to the people. Years of what may have only been fiction and theory is playing out into real OU devices and much i have written in the past can now be crossed referenced as factual.
I am not so convinced and I would rather keep any comparison out here and stay with both feet on the ground.
I am hopefull but not convinced due to a lack of facts and figures, that's where we differ.
That's fine with me people have their own pace of understanding. Some learn quicker than others. :)
@Bolt . It is obvious to me you are a man of knowledge and experience .You have spent time and money obtaining this . I have always said that understanding the technology is much easier than understanding the psychology behind it .
OK so the bottom line is this . How is the alternative energy scene different now from what it was 10 years ago . At that time people were looking for , as a minimum , a device that could be built for less than say 200 dollars in a home workshop . It would have to run a load of say a minimum of 5 watts , and feed itself . It would need to be capable of replication by a person of average DIY skills .The tuning and adjustment would need to be fairly straight forward .Its overunity would be demonstrated by its self running . 10 years on , what has changed . Can you show me such a machine ? Have you ever built such a machine . It is not impossible that such machines exist , but the people who know , are for whatever reason , either unwilling or unable to show us .
Free Energy is not a religion ,faith is not enough . I don`t want to spoil your optimism , but what do you say .
Quote from: EMdevices on June 15, 2011, 02:30:55 AM
Yes, I can design a motor that will waste 12 watts unloaded Mechanically, with a hidden resistor, but a DC motor properly designed draws very little current and power at 2000 rpm when not loaded, not 12 watts.
Bolt,
You see, one of the motor coil with the longer ON time powers the rotor clockwise, and the other with the shorter ON time feeds power into the BEMF which distorts the magnetic fields of the rotor, and when the hall turns OFF, a snapping action or magnetic wave is launched at a fast velocity, that of the rotor plus something else, and I'm starting to believe that this device might be OU after all, a type of magnetic vortex power amplifier.
EM
Hey Em
Been reading what you and Peterae have been discussing.
I cannot say that the config on the drive coils is as you guys are figuring. Also I dont have a complete replica made yet.
I have had pulse motor do the rocking back and forth when the motor is in repel.
It depends on how long on either side of a rotor magnet a drive coil is on. It is very possible that romeros timing config, how ever he tuned it, does just that, and one drive has that much overlap.
I had theories on the Whipmag when we were working on it, that the rotor mags, with like poles facing each other created a like pole bubble between the mags, and all the rotor mags formed a magnetic chain around the rotor. N bubble, S bubble, N bubble, etc.
The idea of the theory is, when the gearwise stator were upon a rotor mag, it was in attraction with the rotor mag, both poles of both mags in attraction. This would break the chain, and did affect the other bubbles in the chain. ;]
And I theorized that this chain breaking could have been a way for the gear wise stators to communicate with the antigearwise stator for supposed timing purposes.
But there were no replications in sight since Als whip vids.
So I would say until you have a working device in front of you and analyzed it thoroughly, I would not press opinions that are not fact till others get exhausted from prescribed direction, as it may be misleading and complicate the thoughts people have already. ;] No harm intended.
Mags
Quote from: romerouk on June 15, 2011, 03:33:48 AM
.. I can tell you that when I powered on the device with low power like 6 volts I could not get the effect but starting with 9-12 volts will bring the effect in the system then once started I can go down to 6 volts...
thank you RomeroUK, this seems to confirm a type of energy storage, like I suspected.
@ All,
A DC motor model is appended in the figures below for reference as I discuss a few aspects of this dynamo. (this was taken from here: http://www.ece.unh.edu/courses/ece618/pdf/dc_motor.pdf , page 5)
Also, a diagram of the dynamo coils and the location of the hall sensors and motor coils is appended showing the forces applied to the rotor, which are in opposition to each other. This will facilitate a discussion as follows:
Motor Forces and Timing1) Let's begin with the second figure showing the location of the hall sensors. Because of their location relative to the position of the coils, Peterae over at overunityforum.com realized that the coils can not both be operated in ATTRACTION mode as RomeroUK stated. So due to positions of the hall sensors, one coil has to ATTRACT (coil 5, for Clockwise motion) and the other coil (coil 9) has to REPEL, IF WE WANT BOTH COILS TO AID THE ROTATION, which is what LOGIC would dictate. However, just like romero said, both coils opperate in ATTRACTION. This implies the torques exerted on the rotor are OPPOSING EACH OTHER. The jerking back and forth of the rotor, when power is applied, is also an indicator that two things are fighting each other, as this would not happen quite so violently or not at all, if both coil polarities were configured the "correct" way according to LOGIC.
2) The 2 hall sensors stay on for different amounts of time, and also turn on at slightly different times. This is because one is triggered from the large rotor magnets (coil 5), while the other from the small magnets embeded on the edge of the rotor. Coil 5 is thus powered on during a larger rotor angle, and coil 9 for a shorter angle, and at a perticular speed this translates to different ON times.
3) Due to the differing On times of the two motor coils, we see that Romero starts the dynamo in the CLOCKWISE direction, which implies Coil 5 is the one that provides the force in the correct direction, and also has the LONGER ON TIME. This is why the clockwise direction is the prefered direction.
But now, what happens to the other coil that is trying to "put on the breaks" or SLOW DOWN the rotor, and has a shorter ON time, which obviously can not win over the coil with the longer ON time?
Pulsing and PolaritiesDue to these recent revelations about the the motorizing coils it is only appropriate that we focus our attention away from the GENERATOR coils and to the two MOTOR coils.
1) As stated, one of the coils (coil 5) is the one producing the correct torque on the rotor for a clockwise rotation. The emf that is induced in this coil is as shown in the DC motor model picture. In order to inject energy into the rotor, a current has to flow into the positive polarity of this EMF, which translates into power input to the rotor through torque application.
2) The other coil, (coil 9) because it opposes the rotor, and tries to slow it down, is pulsed with a supply voltage that is aiding the EMF in this circuit, meaning voltage Va is reversed in polarity from what is shown. This than begins to drive a current in a dirrection opposite of that shown for current I, and since the current is now comming out of the positive polarity of the EMF voltage, this implies energy is being delivered from the EMF which translates into a slow down of the rotor through torque application on it. (these are not new concepts, over a 100 years old basic motor dynamics) But where this energy goes is discussed next.
3) Notice that the models include the inductance and the resistance of the windings. In this motor the inductance plays an important role, since the time constant (L/R) is very large compared to the duration of the on time, which means this motor is efficient and very little losses go into I^2 R losses in the windings. So, as the coil is drived with -Va polarity, current begins to increase and build up with a rate close to (Va + EMF)/L = di/dt, and this stores energy in the inductance and ultimatley BACK INTO MAGNETIC FIELDS THAT INTERACT WITH THOSE OF THE ROTOR IN MOTION.
4) So this is quite interesting, as the coil is turned off, it's diode than conducts and RECOVERS the COLLAPSING MAGNETIC FIELD of the coil PLUS (or MINUS) WHATEVER OTHER EXTRA IS OCCURING DUE TO MOTION OF THE ROTOR. This is quite complex, but the magnetic fields are getting warped while in motion. And than while in motion they recoil and launch a magnetic wave that travels at faster speeds than if stationary, because the motion of the rotor is added to it. Now we are realy getting bogged down because a discussion of relativity is where this might be heading.
5) (one other comment I wanted to make) But, because of the short ON time, the I^2 R losses are small, and most of the 12 watts of energy that is put into this dynamo, when NOT loaded, flows into the EMF of coil 9, and into a form a magnetic distrotion of the fields in motion.
I'll continue to ponder this dynamo .... and add stuff as it comes to me.
EM
PS. teslaalset, I considered the capacitor and other things as possible storage places, but I exluded the capacitor because we were shown the voltage unloaded (15 volts) and loaded about 12 volts. I've also through of material STRAIN energy in the ROTOR, since the coils opposed each other. Like bolt said, these devices make unusual noises. If I remember correctly Sweet VTA device made some horrable growl at one time?
Ismael Aviso seems to be doing a similar thing to motors as they run. Shorting and Pulsing at max voltage conditions. And as the current oscillates, it ACCELERATES AND THAN BREAKS the rotor in a cyclical fashion at high frequency, so very similar concepts are occuring with this dynamo: WE ACCELERATE and than WE BREAK, in a cyclical fashion, BUT WE ALWAYS ACCELERATE A LITTLE LONGER THAN WE BREAK, SO WE MAINTAIN THE SPEED.
EM
neptune link=topic=11009.msg291133#msg291133 date=1308156116]
@Bolt . It is obvious to me you are a man of knowledge and experience .You have spent time and money obtaining this . I have always said that understanding the technology is much easier than understanding the psychology behind it .
OK so the bottom line is this . How is the alternative energy scene different now from what it was 10 years ago .
10 years ago i say 99% of people that had the faith to recognise OU as being a real possibility were seeking something missing, something very special, something science never had a clue about except for a hand-full of people that apparently "knew" and were holding out to the highest bidder. The energy source was given special names like Energy from the Vacuum or Zero point Energy or anything else to grab our attention while a million books, DVD's and "scriptures" were written but none actually broke it down into pure science that could take the theory up to the next level of a practical OU device. Like in today's medicine there is no MONEY in CURES only in selling more drugs to appease alike OU research enthusiast like more DVD's and $19.99 sets of plans! Of course the internet itself has played a massive part in this change.
THEN came the bombshell it turned out the road to OU is basically resonance. RLC leads to OU.
Its so damn simple people were sick to the thought of they wasted so much time and money and it was there ALL the time. Now in the last 5 years all we talk about on here is resonance yet this was virtually unheard off before then till the little toys like Joule Theif's, Dr Stifler SEC's really got peoples attention to see how 200 LEDS can be lit for days on one AA battery using nothing more than RLC resonance methods. So it has been a collective journey and one where all of humanity needed to wake up and smell the roses. We are not there YET but pretty Damn CLOSE!
At that time people were looking for , as a minimum , a device that could be built for less than say 200 dollars in a home workshop . It would have to run a load of say a minimum of 5 watts , and feed itself . It would need to be capable of replication by a person of average DIY skills .The tuning and adjustment would need to be fairly straight forward .Its overunity would be demonstrated by its self running . 10 years on , what has changed .
Mindset and the willingness to accept change and take a chance that what you was taught at uni or college was mostly crap and creates a mental blockage and its very hard to overcome this aspect. You can already see despite the Muller replications they are not flying off the end of the production line as self runners!! The encroached school theories keeps people distracted from finding the correct tuning methods. Yet at the same time only an understanding of Pure Radio Frequency techniques is all that is required to furnish a working device.
Can you show me such a machine ?
The easiest device to loop is the Rotoverter as 3 phase induction motor around 5 HP can be tuned very easy by anyone to run on 10 watts at 120 volts as a demonstrator of resonance technology. Using a pulse width adjustable inverter with amplitude control it will run at 3000 rpm of very heavy cast motor on just about ONE WATT compared to the usual demand of 650 watts just in idle power alone. Can you see if the driver is only one watt how easy to make a lug free generator?? Well sure it take time and money which i don't have in R & D but in recent years there are at LEAST a dozen loopers and maybe a lot more where people just do it in private and never say a word.
Have you ever built such a machine .
NO but i worked with RV for a long time just over 9 years now. Im currently working on HHO looping gensets.
It is not impossible that such machines exist , but the people who know , are for whatever reason , either unwilling or unable to show us .
ABSOLUTELY! you can bet your life on that. If Romero never came out with his Muller would it make other devices any less real?
Free Energy is not a religion ,faith is not enough . I don`t want to spoil your optimism , but what do you say .
I say the sooner people embrace it the better. Notice how many debunkers are no where to be found now a couple of devices have "hit the streets" Sure there are moaners but the collective force behind us is heading in the right direction. But remember a full disclosure does not secure a right to OU. Romero's muller has been proof of that. It takes people of the right calibre to make the grade and not a minute too soon as we are at the 12th hour of 2012 almost here.
@EM,
You do realize the two motor coils are triggered independently, each by there own hall sensor?
These coils are not triggered at the same time because of the 9:8 coil:magnet ratio.
Quote from: teslaalset on June 15, 2011, 01:49:21 PM
@EM,
You do realize the two motor coils are triggered independently, each by there own hall sensor?
These coils are not triggered at the same time because of the 9:8 coil:magnet ratio.
Yes, I was aware of that from the beginning.
Each motor coil has it's own hall sensor, and gets triggered at different times, and with different ON time durations as well. EM
PS, Mags, I agree (just saw your post.)
@ All,
If anybody gets anything usefull out of all my discussions, it should be a sense that we need to replicate RomeroUK's dynamo as close as possible. We might be tempted to make a number of LOGICAL conclusions based on our training, but they could be WRONG:
1) we might say, like romero said, use any DC motor to turn your dynamo, but is that realy true?
2) we migth say, use more motor coils, it will work better, but is that realy true?
3) we might say, we need a larger capacitor, or larger this and that, but is that realy true?]/b]
Quote from: EMdevices on June 15, 2011, 02:31:43 PM
.....with different ON time durations as well.
How did you conclude that?
I might have missed that due to the bunch of off topic postings.
Quote from: teslaalset on June 15, 2011, 02:42:49 PM
How did you conclude that?
I might have missed that due to the bunch of off topic postings.
It would be due mainly to the difference in the size (diameter) of the magnet that is triggering the Hall. In one case, the large diameter rotor magnets are triggering a Hall that is oriented 90 degrees from the field, and in the other case, a small diameter (perhaps 1/8") peripherally-mounted magnet is triggering the other Hall sensor.
.99
I posted this else where recently and have been pounding this in forever.
Google: resonant self destruction
Just prior to that peak in the signal is the goal. Get there anyway you can with whatever device or medium.
SM stated 'Just before bang on!'.
Hi all,
I have just finished working for today.I have been drilling and fixing magnets on different rotors also made 2 more coils.
It takes almost 2hours to do one coil. I am using my milling lathe and a heat gun for the winding.
Finally I decided how to build the new generator type.
As I said before first I am looking to have a good efficiency when I run it in standard normal mode,then I will introduce new ideas.
I am sorry but I cannot answer some of the questions posted before.
I said it can be run powered from a standard DC motor but to do initial testing and adjustments.
It will not run like it did powered from outside motor.
Maybe with extra tricks will do, but I have not tried it, maybe connecting the motor in relation with the coils... but that is too much for me and what I build now is a different concept.
Some people stated thatmaybe creates something like a vortex> It might be, I don't fully understant it.
I said before that when I was starting it I neded to take it to that point (speed)where the effect was taking place then I could play with the speed plus and minus but only to a point.
Too much speed destroyied the effect, too less too, there were some margins.
I could see that the effect was killed much quicker when I went up in speed than going down.
I don't understand why, I was expecting to be balanced from that middle point.
I have never run it upside down, only on the side, but that was affecting the system badly, It was like I run it with a heavy load on it.
When I run it suspended I only used 6 volts on the DC converter to be able to hold it and also to make sure I am not destroying the coils as my rotor was not 100% balanced.
At high speed it was almost impossible to hold it with one hand.
I have just seen that youtube posted before with one wire powering a bulb, that is amazing and I think it is simple too, capacitors again :)
All the best,
Romero
QuoteI said it can be run powered from a standard DC motor but to do initial testing and adjustments.
It will not run like it did powered from outside motor.
Maybe with extra tricks will do, but I have not tried it, maybe connecting the motor in relation with the coils... but that is too much for me and what I build now is a different concept.
Some people stated thatmaybe creates something like a vortex> It might be, I don't fully understant it.
I said before that when I was starting it I neded to take it to that point (speed)where the effect was taking place then I could play with the speed plus and minus but only to a point.
Too much speed destroyied the effect, too less too, there were some margins.
I could see that the effect was killed much quicker when I went up in speed than going down.
I don't understand why, I was expecting to be balanced from that middle point.
I have never run it upside down, only on the side, but that was affecting the system badly, It was like I run it with a heavy load on it.
When I run it suspended I only used 6 volts on the DC converter to be able to hold it and also to make sure I am not destroying the coils as my rotor was not 100% balanced.
At high speed it was almost impossible to hold it with one hand.
Thank you
RomeroUK, these are valuable insights and clarifications.
Respectfuly,
EM
PS. Don't pay any attention to negative posts!
Quote from: EMdevices on June 15, 2011, 07:34:55 PM
Thank you RomeroUK, these are valuable insights and clarifications.
Respectfuly,
EM
PS. Don't pay any attention to negative posts!
I 100% agree, EM -- good to see you posting again. (Can you tell me what you now think of the Gabriel? perhaps by PM) I'm having trouble keeping up with everything, and still do my own work on my electronics bench, but I found Bolt's reply to Neptune to be classic and I agree with Bolt.
I'm fairly new to this OU forum, but I've been at alt-energy for a long time, and I sense we are approaching a breakthrough also...
I'm glad that RomeroUK can post and is working on a "new device". (@Romero -- if you could indicate WHO is trying to get you to shut up, that could be of help to the rest of us. We can unitedly counter such influences and support each other; but knowing better who is obstructing would help!)
@EM -- regarding "relativity", I've studied that for decades also. Not intimidated by relativity any more. I posed a thought experiment about magnetic field relaxation and retardation re: relativity and conservation of momentum here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10773.270 reply #278 ff.
Oh -- this is me, "PhysicsProf" over at OUR where we conversed... Google "Dr BYU" to get my web page and note my past (and controversial) work on Fusion energy etc.
This joule-seeking community is one of the finest communities I've seen. I'd like to call it the "energy truth" community -- actually doing EXPERIMENTS rather than ad nauseum debates. A unique community IMO.
OK -- ask five physicists their opinion, and you're likely to get SIX different answers! Ditto "global warming experts".
But here we share a common goal (most of us) of a novel energy source for humanity -- and not for the enrichment of BigOyl or some group of elitists. Energy development open-sourced and for humanity -- a great goal.
--Dr. Steven Jones (see, e.g., Scientific American, July 1987, an article by Prof. Johann Rafelski and me)
Quote from: poynt99 on June 15, 2011, 03:09:57 PM
It would be due mainly to the difference in the size (diameter) of the magnet that is triggering the Hall. In one case, the large diameter rotor magnets are triggering a Hall that is oriented 90 degrees from the field, and in the other case, a small diameter (perhaps 1/8") peripherally-mounted magnet is triggering the other Hall sensor.
.99
Thanks Poynt.
It would be good if RomeroUK could confirm this.
QuoteI said before that when I was starting it I neded to take it to that point (speed)where the effect was taking place then I could play with the speed plus and minus but only to a point.
Too much speed destroyied the effect, too less too, there were some margins.
I could see that the effect was killed much quicker when I went up in speed than going down.
I don't understand why, I was expecting to be balanced from that middle point.
What Romero said above it is truly a resonance effect, nothing more. You can see at least two or three resonate components in Romero's device:
- E.magnetic resonance in input coil(s)
(- Magneto mechanical resonance between the rotor magnets and collector coils (it may not happens) )
- E.magnetic resonance in output coil(s) .
Simplifying the operation of Romero's device from the point of view of energy flow it has three stages: input coils -> rotating disk -> output coils.
The disk role is the one-way coupling between input and output, don't think any magic about that, no vortex and others (your HDD in the PC below your desk works near the same way) maybe just magneto mechanical resonance.
The maximum of energy transfer through that way possible via resonance and clearly shows a bell curve described in Romero's quote above. More or less voltage equals more or less RPM and loll out from the bell curve's operating zone.
To achieve OU it should be measure and tune the input and output coils with GDO into the same self resonance frequency then it will possible to calculate the required rotor RPM which may a lower harmonics or the same frequency.
Romero said right that one input coil + one output coil should take the "effect" which is evident cos tuning to resonance should work (and easier ) via that case.
MU-metals can provide much power cos its higher permeability and saturation stores more flux which means more power.
4q
"The voltage (electromotive potential- emp) in the coils is produced by the changing magnetic field strength from the passing magnets (magneto motive force - mmf) of the rotor, and will manifest as current (electromotive force - emf) in the coils, when there is a load connected. This load forms part of the impedance (Z) triangle of RLZ in the phasor diagrams shown at the site link above. When you increase the load (lower the resistance) the phase angle increases.
Counter mmf (counter magneto motive force) is produced by the current (emf) in the coil, and it also arises out of phase with the coil current that is producing it. Conventionally speaking, counter mmf is said to be 180 degrees out of phase with the inducing mmf and is therefore oppositional to the inducing mmf. In reality no inductor is perfect, and the phase is more likely to be between 170 - 179 degrees out of phase depending on the inductors characteristics. Bear in mind, that in a perfect inductor this phase opposition is theoretically a 180 degrees polarity vector difference, but a zero degree difference with respect to time. The time phase is where all the changes occur in this acceleration anomoly!
When there is an incrementally increasing load placed on the coil, the phase angle of the coil current (time lag) increases as the resistance of the load decreases towards S/C. The resulting counter mmf phase angle of the core (time lag) also then changes with respect to the original inducing mmf of the passing magnets. As the counter mmf approaches 90 degrees out of phase (time lag) with the inducing MMF it also approaches physical vector neutrality and thus zero opposition. Since The counter mmf is a product of both the current phase in the coil and the degree of magnetic phase lag due to reluctance of the core material, then the opposition normally produced by the coil current and core drag are nullified together. At short circuit, with maximum current and counter mmf phase angle change, the coil/core appear to magnetically "disappear" with respect to the rotor, and so the rotor accelerates.
Because the motor / drive coils experience less opposition, due to less magnetic drag being placed upon the rotor by the generator coils, it accelerates, resulting in an increased motor back emf and motor coil impedance.
The increase in motor back emf and motor drive coil impedance results in a decreased current input from the supply, and a lower motor power consumption.
The (motor) rotor speed, combined with the number of magnets on the rotor, determines coil current frequency, and plays a very important initial role, because the inductive reactance (XL) of the generating coil increases with frequency. As a consequence, the current phase angle will be greater for a higher frequency coil output than a lower frequency coil output, into the same given load. The acceleration effect will occur at a lower rotor rpm when using high impedance pick up coils than the rpm required when using low impedance pick up coils."
from page 11
http://www.totallyamped.net/adams/index.html
@ Romero . You once said that not everyone can play football , but perhaps some people can learn . I am asking you to help us to learn . I have accepted that there are reasons why you will not answer questions in the Muller . Remember that there are a lot of members here . There are people with good workshops and test gear , good brains , and no shortage of money . Then there are people with none of these . But I am sure you will agree that we all have a part to play . As you predicted , people are struggling to build a self runner . But some people have replicated speed up under load , so there is still hope .
OK . So now I am asking for help for us lesser mortals . Early on , you pointed to 2 much simpler machines that you have seen to be overunity , The Kromrey machine , and the modified model aircraft motor . There was not quite enough information for people to replicate these . So I am asking you to answer some questions , so people with limited resources can see OU for themselves , and thus be encouraged to invest their limited resources into a better machine later .OK I will ask .
First the Kromrey machine .
1 Can you please give details of the coil windings .
2 Am I right in assuming that each coil [or coil pair] has its own FWBR and these are connected like the muller ?
3 Machine is driven from a separate DC motor {or could use a
separate rotor on the same shaft as a pulse motor]
4 The machine has ferrite
cores shaped like a letter U , with coils wound on the "arms . " Did you buythese or are
they made from iron oxide and resin?
Now the model aircraft motor.
1 There are an even number of pole pieces on which coils are wound . The coils are wound in pairs so that if you connected the pair in series , one would give a N pole and one a S pole . correct?
2Each coil pair has its own FWBR , and these are connected together like muller ?
3 Are the magnets changed in any way?
4 drive is from an external source . [DC or Pulse motor] ?
If you could answer all these questions you would enable many more people to achieve OU . So come on Romero . teach us all to play football .Remember that the best footballer on earth has much more fun as part of a team than playing on his own .
Respect , neptune .
@Wings,
I tried earlier to summarize your explanation in a very compact way:
Tangens(alfa) = 2*pi*f*L/R, where alfa is the BEMF lag angle, R is the coil + load resistance, f represents the convolution frequency and L is the coil value in Henry.
90 degrees will be approached when the coil is shortened and it's wire resistance is extreemly low.
We basically mean the same thing I guess.
I am working out the case where additinal coil capacity is included as well.
However due to the selective way of Q&A here I am not going to publish anymore on this.
Hi EM and peter
That's what i call an out of the box idea.
And yes it interests me a lot
I don't know where we go with it but i have made some test.
Here the scope shot of the both driving coil.
The first is the long pulse of the Hall sensor pointing on the big rotor magnet. As you can see the pulse is about in phase with the generative trace of the motor coils.
The second pix is the "retaining " motor drive , triggered by the very small magnet. The pulse is very short and out of the phase of the generative trace of the motor coil.
To be very clear if i separate the 2 driving coils , each one will spin the rotor in counter direction, and both are in attraction mode as per EM drawing some post earlier.
The motor works well like this, so i will go on the test.
For me it is very clear that the Romero machine consume a very high current in the no load situation. Why ?
For example my motor can go to 1200 rpm with both driving coil working in the same direction with about 150 ma (and less ) at 12 volts.
and with the 2 coils working in opposition i never get that speed and consume arround 350 to 450 ma.
And i have exactly the same rotor dimension as Romero.
So i think this 2 driving coils in opposition is to be investigated ,and also we have to remember the MOON effect (this very fast optical second pass (which spins in counter direction of the rotor ) we discussed at the beginning of the Romero muller thread ) there was a animated gif but i can not find it, perhaps somebody can recall of it ?
Anyway bravo EM i will follow your development.
Today my litz wire arrived (by feet from England after 5 week of patience ) so back to the workshop and coil coil coil...
Hope this helps
Good luck at all
Quote from: neptune on June 16, 2011, 09:01:21 AM
@ Romero . You once said that not everyone can play football , but perhaps some people can learn . I am asking you to help us to learn . I have accepted that there are reasons why you will not answer questions in the Muller . Remember that there are a lot of members here . There are people with good workshops and test gear , good brains , and no shortage of money . Then there are people with none of these . But I am sure you will agree that we all have a part to play . As you predicted , people are struggling to build a self runner . But some people have replicated speed up under load , so there is still hope .
OK . So now I am asking for help for us lesser mortals . Early on , you pointed to 2 much simpler machines that you have seen to be overunity , The Kromrey machine , and the modified model aircraft motor . There was not quite enough information for people to replicate these . So I am asking you to answer some questions , so people with limited resources can see OU for themselves , and thus be encouraged to invest their limited resources into a better machine later .OK I will ask .
First the Kromrey machine .
1 Can you please give details of the coil windings .
2 Am I right in assuming that each coil [or coil pair] has its own FWBR and these are connected like the muller ?
3 Machine is driven from a separate DC motor {or could use a
separate rotor on the same shaft as a pulse motor]
4 The machine has ferrite
cores shaped like a letter U , with coils wound on the "arms . " Did you buythese or are
they made from iron oxide and resin?
Now the model aircraft motor.
1 There are an even number of pole pieces on which coils are wound . The coils are wound in pairs so that if you connected the pair in series , one would give a N pole and one a S pole . correct?
2Each coil pair has its own FWBR , and these are connected together like muller ?
3 Are the magnets changed in any way?
4 drive is from an external source . [DC or Pulse motor] ?
If you could answer all these questions you would enable many more people to achieve OU . So come on Romero . teach us all to play football .Remember that the best footballer on earth has much more fun as part of a team than playing on his own .
Respect , neptune .
Hi neptune,
I will answer some of you questions but please just take them just like the results of my experiments and no invitation to replicate, I can be wrong too.
Kromrey machine:
I built 2 of them folowing Bedini info, 2 stacks of magnets, 4 stacks and even tried combinations using 3 and 5 stacks... none of them took me to OU.
I realised that it is not possible to get too far with the standard config then I tried the same thing but rotating magnets and the coils fixed, no rings,... result much better., I can say OU but no selfloop.
After all this experiments I said, what if I can use the new Kromrey design to drive itself, without a motor... and I used the coils as Driver/Generator. Result very good, again I can say OU but not enough to selfloop.
Aircraft Motors:
I started my muller after playing with some small Turnigy aircraft motors.I have modified them and rewound them in a different way.That gave me for the first time better OU signs with a chance to selfloop but because they are so small It was difficult to play with them without braking the new coils terminals,.. - that was hard work.I looked to get a bigger model to do the same thing , at least not to break the coils everytime I had to do something.I could not find a big enough one.
For people who never opened them before they should know that these motors are using neos inside but you can turn them very easy.The coil/magnet arrangement is (in my small motors tested) 12 magnets/10 coils, 14 magnets/12 coils.I remembered about the Muller device I was reading few years back and that was my starting point.
The new device now I started going back to my initial point, turnigy motors and elimitate all Muller connection.
I keep getting questions about this new build.All I have answered so far is that I am using 32 magnets, actually 64 but they are used in pairs to make 32 larger ones.This is all for now.
@neptune
4 The machine has ferrite
cores shaped like a letter U , with coils wound on the "arms . " Did you buythese or are
they made from iron oxide and resin?
I am not sure what machine you are reffering to.
Best regards,
Romero
@Romerouk . The kromrey machine I refer to . You showed a diagram on page 13 , reply192 , in the thread "re muller dynamo " . I am asking about the ferrite bit .
Quote from: neptune on June 16, 2011, 10:40:38 AM
@Romerouk . The kromrey machine I refer to . You showed a diagram on page 13 , reply192 , in the thread "re muller dynamo " . I am asking about the ferrite bit .
I bought the I ferrite block 10cm long/2.5cm square.(quite expensive, about £22 each- I bought 16)
I used iron dust cores(factory made) for the parts facing the magnets and glued them with the long ferrite that had the coils on it .
I hope u understand, 2 iron dust cores and this ferrite core made the C shape you are talking about.
Romero
Hi Romero
just a quick question
Is it possible that on the rotor, you use a pair of magnets in opposition to get a "kind of super pole" with the same pole outside ? yes or no ?
If yes it could explain why the magnet get something out of the 12 mm thick rotor on the pix we have seen on the other thread (and i remember you spoke of adding magnet on top of each other but you did not say how.
If yes in this case there is no more a Muller divice and it works completely differently.
Thank's and good luck for your next project for me i go on testing and learning and it is a lot of fun
Laurent
Quote from: woopy on June 16, 2011, 11:01:36 AM
Hi Romero
just a quick question
Is it possible that on the rotor, you use a pair of magnets in opposition to get a "kind of super pole" with the same pole outside ? yes or no ?
If yes it could explain why the magnet get something out of the 12 mm thick rotor on the pix we have seen on the other thread (and i remember you spoke of adding magnet on top of each other but you did not say how.
If yes in this case there is no more a Muller divice and it works completely differently.
Thank's and good luck for your next project for me i go on testing and learning and it is a lot of fun
Laurent
that was a mistake I made, realised after a while.I changed rotors and everything so many times and I forgot. The rotor was 12mm and because the 10mm magnet was too small I added a 5mm magnet, so total magnet lenght was 15mm
@Romerouk . Many thanks for answering some of my questions .And woopy`s question . Referring to Woop`s question , can you confirm that when you added the 5mm magnets on the rotor , you added them in attraction and not in repel mode . Thanks .
Quote from: neptune on June 16, 2011, 11:25:08 AM
@Romerouk . Many thanks for answering some of my questions .And woopy`s question . Referring to Woop`s question , can you confirm that when you added the 5mm magnets on the rotor , you added them in attraction and not in repel mode . Thanks .
attraction is what i used mainly for one of the driver coils that used the side magnets to trigger.the other one having the hall on top used attraction too but a bit of replusion at the same time.
Thank's Romero
for sake of good understanding
i made a small drawing
so it is A or B and if A are they all sme pole outwards or alternating ?
Many thank's
Laurent
@woopy
B
Thank's Romero
everything clear now
@ EM
I have refound the nice gif of the MOON effect it is at page 18 post 265 from Freeenergyinfo (in the muller dynamo thread )
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3842.0;attach=52567
Sorry the above link is not animated (it does not work as a copy ) but go on the page 18 and you can see it spinning.
good luck at all
Laurent
Quote from: woopy on June 16, 2011, 10:00:41 AM
Hi EM and peter
That's what i call an out of the box idea.
And yes it interests me a lot
I don't know where we go with it but i have made some test.
Here the scope shot of the both driving coil.
The first is the long pulse of the Hall sensor pointing on the big rotor magnet. As you can see the pulse is about in phase with the generative trace of the motor coils.
The second pix is the "retaining " motor drive , triggered by the very small magnet. The pulse is very short and out of the phase of the generative trace of the motor coil.
To be very clear if i separate the 2 driving coils , each one will spin the rotor in counter direction, and both are in attraction mode as per EM drawing some post earlier.
The motor works well like this, so i will go on the test.
For me it is very clear that the Romero machine consume a very high current in the no load situation. Why ?
For example my motor can go to 1200 rpm with both driving coil working in the same direction with about 150 ma (and less ) at 12 volts.
and with the 2 coils working in opposition i never get that speed and consume arround 350 to 450 ma.
And i have exactly the same rotor dimension as Romero.
So i think this 2 driving coils in opposition is to be investigated ,and also we have to remember the MOON effect (this very fast optical second pass (which spins in counter direction of the rotor ) we discussed at the beginning of the Romero muller thread ) there was a animated gif but i can not find it, perhaps somebody can recall of it ?
Anyway bravo EM i will follow your development.
Today my litz wire arrived (by feet from England after 5 week of patience ) so back to the workshop and coil coil coil...
Hope this helps
Good luck at all
Hey Woopy
Have you tried a free wheel diode on your drive coils? It should increase speed with the timing you have, or allow you to reduce the on time and get the same speed, and use less current. ;] Your doing good work here. =)
Mags
Hi RomeroUK,
I know youre swamped with questions. I am sorry, I have another.
In your Muller Motor Replication, do the Rotor Permanent Magnets (15mm in length) Reverse Saturate the Ferrite Cores in the Coils, forcing the flux from the Backing Permentent Magnets (5-10mm) out of the core, then once the Rotor Permenent Magnet has passed allowing the Backing Permanent Magnet's Flux to collapse back in to the core?
Is this why you need washers glued to the Stator?
Could this be why the speed of the Rotor is important? Maybe its also why there is so much adjustment to get "this effect"?
Thank You for your time in trying to help us!
All the best
Chris
So if this is true, all you pay for on the input, is, to spin the Rotor up. The "Work" is done by an oscillation between the Rotor Permanent Magnet, the Core Material, and the Backing Coil Permanent Magnet.
Ideally a Backing Permanent Magnet on a threaded adjustment would be nice. There must be a relationship, between, the
Rotor Permanent Magnet Strength,
Core Material Saturation and
Backing Permanent Magnet Strength and importantly the
Length of the Coil and Core.
All of the Motor Concepts in the RomeroUK Muller replication are the same as Richard Willis's Motor seen here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqDS8QQ_9Z0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqDS8QQ_9Z0)
We can list the effect similarity's:
1: No Lenz's Law effects seen on the running system.
2: Rotor and Backing Coil Permanent Magnets used.
3: High Output for the size of the coils used.
4: Load is connected to the Motor once Motor is up to speed. Not before.
5: Big Permanent Magnet, small Permanent Magnets are used, this is in reverse to Richard, Richard had big Permanent Magnets on the Stator, RomeroUK has big Permanent Magnets on the Rotor (I believe to be a better way to do it)
6: Rotor Speed was fairly slow compared to the level of output, in the area of 1400 - 2000 RPM's.
7: a type of Sweet spot is optimal for the best output.
The list goes on.
Well I hope this helps those out there. I am now going to re-build my motor to prove or disprove this information. To me there is to much of a similarity here.
All the best
Chris
Hi,
I don't have a good understanding of electrics, but I am wondering how the RomeroUK Muller generator works
and where it gets its energy surplus from.
My understanding of this document:
http://ir.library.tohoku.ac.jp/re/bitstream/10097/47751/1/10.1109-20.908927.pdf
is, that the resonant frequency of a ferrite core is corresponding to a certain temperature.
I am wondering what happens, when one puts a ferrite Core (with coil) to its resonant frequency,
and then approaches the core with temperature (hair dryer).
Will the core try to maintain its resonant state (and temperature)?
If this is the case, then the RomeroUK Muller generator will work when the cores have a resonant
frequency/temperature below the ambient temperature/operating temperature of the device.
Does this make sense?
Has this already been tried somewhere/somehow?
Best regards,
Fjodor
@hyiq
yes, there is a connection with Magnacoaster setup but not all aspects.I tried to do Magnacoaster solidstate and no success using the info from the patent.I changed the wrong diodes orientation, tried many things but nothing.Using that patent info and changed it a bit then we can get good results.Richard has not disclosed all info in the patent, the core shape and the coils are not described and that makes the big difference.
I've got some ideas today and I might be able to make it solidstate, maybe...
Regards,
Romero
Well we find out soon enough i guess if he really has ironed out all the overheating bugs etc as i just found his back order sheet with delivery schedule. About $400,000 worth of orders here to fill. Orders supposed to be completed over the coming weeks now he has fixed all the problems.
ORDER ID DATE OF ORDER PROV - STATE COUNTRY DELIVERY DATE BUILD DATE
VORK-00000100 9/29/2008 ONTARIO CANADA 7/20/2011 7/18/2011
VORK-00000101 10/14/2008 ONTARIO CANADA 7/20/2011 7/18/2011
VORK-00000102 11/3/2008 WA USA 7/21/2011 7/19/2011
VORK-00000103 12/15/2008 EUROPE AUSTRIA 7/21/2011 7/19/2011
VORK-00000104 10/24/2008 CO USA 7/22/2011 7/20/2011
VORK-00000105 1/23/2009 TX USA 7/22/2011 7/20/2011
VORK-00000106 9/8/2008 PORTUGAL RMA OUT 7/21/2011
VORK-00000107 1/7/2009 BC CANADA RMA 7/21/2011
VORK-00000108 1/9/2009 MANITOBA CANADA 7/25/2011 7/22/2011
VORK-00000109 1/15/2009 Ruelzheim GERMANY 7/25/2011 7/22/2011
VORK-00000110 1/22/2009 NH USA 7/27/2011 7/25/2011
VORK-00000111 1/7/2009 VOLUNTARI LIFOV ROMANIA 7/27/2011 7/25/2011
VORK-00000112 1/9/2009 IOWA USA 7/28/2011 7/26/2011
VORK-00000113 2/4/2009 18R/C MACAU PARIS 7/28/2011 7/26/2011
VORK-00000114 2/4/2009 18R/C MACAU PARIS 7/29/2011 7/27/2011
VORK-00000115 2/22/2009 ONTARIO CANADA 7/29/2011 7/27/2011
VORK-00000116 2/25/2009 QC CANADA 8/1/2011 7/28/2011
VORK-00000117 3/9/2009 CA USA 8/1/2011 7/28/2011
VORK-00000118 5/8/2009 ONTARIO CANADA RMA IN 7/29/2011
VORK-00000119 6/19/2009 BC CANADA 8/2/2011 7/29/2011
VORK-00000120 7/23/2009 NC USA 8/3/2011 8/1/2011
VORK-00000121 8/14/2009 OR USA 8/3/2011 8/1/2011
VORK-00000122 11/16/2009 QUEENSLAND AUSTRIALIA 8/4/2011 8/2/2011
VORK-00000123 8/26/2009 CO USA 8/4/2011 8/2/2011
VORK-00000124 9/25/2009 KAUNO RAJ LITHUANIA 8/5/2011 8/3/2011
VORK-00000125 11/24/2009 UT USA 8/5/2011 8/3/2011
VORK-00000126 12/8/2009 BC CANADA 8/8/2011 8/4/2011
VORK-000001260 12/15/2009 KHAYABAN-E-EJAMI CLIFTON KARACHI, PAKISTAN 8/8/2011 8/4/2011
VORK-00000127 2/10/2010 ONTARIO CANADA 8/8/2011 8/4/2011
VORK-00000128 2/5/2010 NEW YORK USA 8/9/2011 8/5/2011
VORK-00000129 3/9/2010 AUSTRIA EUROPE 8/9/2011 8/5/2011
VORK-00000130 5/17/2010 ALMERIA SPAIN 8/10/2011 8/8/2011
VORK-00000131 5/25/2010 GUANACASTE COSTA RICA 8/10/2011 8/8/2011
VORK-00000132 6/22/2010 IN USA 8/11/2011 8/9/2011
VORK-00000133 8/3/2010 CA USA 8/11/2011 8/9/2011
VORK-00000134 7/22/2010 NY USA 8/12/2011 8/10/2011
VORK-00000135 9/7/2010 BC CANADA 8/12/2011 8/10/2011
VORK-00000136 1/18/2011 ONTARIO CANADA 8/15/2011 8/11/2011
VORK-00000137 10/30/2009 ONTARIO CANADA 8/15/2011 8/11/2011
VORK-00000138 5/5/2011 ONTARIO CANADA 8/16/2011 8/12/2011
Quote from: romerouk on June 18, 2011, 12:53:16 PM
@hyiq
yes, there is a connection with Magnacoaster setup but not all aspects.I tried to do Magnacoaster solidstate and no success using the info from the patent.I changed the wrong diodes orientation, tried many things but nothing.Using that patent info and changed it a bit then we can get good results.Richard has not disclosed all info in the patent, the core shape and the coils are not described and that makes the big difference.
I've got some ideas today and I might be able to make it solidstate, maybe...
Regards,
Romero
Hi RomeroUK,
If you want my opinion, Solidstate in this configuration, will never work. It will only work in the Motor setup Richard had working. At least very convincingly had working. I believe his Prime mover was the Permanent Magnet on the Rotor and this is what he is missing on the solid state stuff.
@ Bolt, making those orders I think will never happen with the concepts Richard is working on.
The only way Richard will make it work is to go backwards, and rebuild his motor.
The reason this will never work is, he had his Rotor Permanent Magnet doing a good percentage of the work for him. Solid state, his input Coil must do nearly all the work.
All the Best
Chris
Quote from: hyiq on June 19, 2011, 01:11:07 AM
Hi RomeroUK,
If you want my opinion, Solidstate in this configuration, will never work. It will only work in the Motor setup Richard had working. At least very convincingly had working. I believe his Prime mover was the Permanent Magnet on the Rotor and this is what he is missing on the solid state stuff.
@ Bolt, making those orders I think will never happen with the concepts Richard is working on.
The only way Richard will make it work is to go backwards, and rebuild his motor.
The reason this will never work is, he had his Rotor Permanent Magnet doing a good percentage of the work for him. Solid state, his input Coil must do nearly all the work.
All the Best
Chris
I wouldn't say never just difficult. 4 months ago we never had a public looper muller. Solid state systems already exist for a long time and most inventors start off with mechanical devices and the lessons learned allow for progression to solid state. To recreate the conditions of passing magnet going to need bucking coils and kicker coils then make sure everything is out of phase on the power collection side. The MEG is an OU device where the magnet is part of the core flux and using switched flux path solution is one such method but COP usually very low. Magnacaoster i still pretty sure he has such a device and he has now issued a back order list with delivery dates. Lets see if anything close to those dates is shipped in the coming weeks. If not people WILL sue his ass soon and force bankrupt.
Hi Bolt,
Fair comment. Thats just my opinion. I know someone that has purchansed a unit from Richard. He has been waiting for a long time, Laywers are now involved. I cant say who but its looking pretty bad for Richard.
My friend is fairly well off so the cost of Laywers is not a problem for him, its the principal.
There have been solidstate around for a long time. My favorite is the Hendershot Generator, and the Sweet VTA. These devices show how its done.
I guess the pressure is on Richard for a result.
All the best
Chris
Romero,
Have you read or is this tech based on any of the info covered in this article? for any who havent read it....I think you should.
http://sparkbangbuzz.com/mag-amp/mag-amp.htm
Quote from: redrichie on June 20, 2011, 12:26:10 AM
Romero,
Have you read or is this tech based on any of the info covered in this article? for any who havent read it....I think you should.
http://sparkbangbuzz.com/mag-amp/mag-amp.htm
I have tried that experiment some time ago and yes it looks that we can get some gain there. I have not spent too much time on it and I am not sure about the real figures.
Just be sure to remember that it is frequency dependent. The transformers are being driven at the frequency that they were designed for. Small voltage dc in controls a large ac voltage out. Cant be turned off completely tho. Many possibilities there for sure.
'
thay
Quote from: Thaelin on June 20, 2011, 02:32:23 PM
[...]
Cant be turned off completely tho.
[...]
thay
in the second page, showing an advanced circuit using toroids, the author stated this:
"In this circuit, using 35 khz and toroids to control a light, the light is completely off with no input dc bias. A positive dc bias will turn the light on and brighter"PS it should be noted that when these systems refer to "gain" they do not mean energy gain
the stated gain is the ratio between control signal power and output power - NOT between continuous Input Power and continuous Output Power!
HTH
np
http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
[quote author=EMdevices
@ All,
A DC motor model is appended in the figures below for reference as I discuss a few aspects of this dynamo. (this was taken from here: http://www.ece.unh.edu/courses/ece618/pdf/dc_motor.pdf , page 5)
3) Notice that the models include the inductance and the resistance of the windings. In this motor the inductance plays an important role, since the time constant (L/R) is very large compared to the duration of the on time, which means this motor is efficient and very little losses go into I^2 R losses in the windings. So, as the coil is drived with -Va polarity, current begins to increase and build up with a rate close to (Va + EMF)/L = di/dt, and this stores energy in the inductance and ultimatley BACK INTO MAGNETIC FIELDS THAT INTERACT WITH THOSE OF THE ROTOR IN MOTION.
EM
Hi EM
Just want to know if the addition of magnets also plays an important role in the A DC motor model ?? ??? ??? ???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XifhWt3tolg
DC Magverter
cheers
totoalas
Hi Null:
Sorry, that one slipped by me till now. I will have to check it out. Just wondering if there is any 'leakage' that gets by. Have to set up one and see what goes. Would love to run a motor with no transistors to kill but it needs to be able to shut off totally for sure. My bucket of burn offerings has been getting a lot of attention lately. Ten mosfets at a time when they go.
Think it would be rather hard to kill a torrid ;D
thay
Quote from: nul-points on June 20, 2011, 10:04:09 PM
in the second page, showing an advanced circuit using toroids, the author stated this:
"In this circuit, using 35 khz and toroids to control a light, the light is completely off with no input dc bias. A positive dc bias will turn the light on and brighter"
PS it should be noted that when these systems refer to "gain" they do not mean energy gain
the stated gain is the ratio between control signal power and output power - NOT between continuous Input Power and continuous Output Power!
HTH
np
http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)