Forgive such a naive question but other than creating a faithful following of would-be device replicators, annual conference attendees and book buyers, can anyone sum up what they've actually accomplished?
It can't be OU, can it? The $15,825.00 prize offered for a mere ONE WATT OU device YEARS AGO IS STILL UNCLAIMED!!! Lindemann for one (including a certain well-known devotee) actually despise 'mainstream science' for its apparent closed-mindedness and/or rigourous requirement for incontrovertible evidence. Like Andrea Rossi and so many others, do they simply shy away from 3rd party independent testing? I hesitate to call them charlatans but how many functioning Bedini, Lindemann, Bearden or Dollard devices are out there providing even watts of free green energy to their owners and to the planet?
Even Sterling Allan, the FE cheerleader admits to depending entirely on UU (underunity) energy in his home, convinced in the existence of some sort of suppression. My argument is that if FE suppression exists, it's got to be either aliens or god or both conspiring against us. As everyone knows, Big Oil, Big Banks, the CIA, and the Pentagon can't even suppress evidence of their own incompetence.
Well I was going to pick on your for your name. But in the end Einstein would agree with you. O have no hesitation in calling them charlatans. each and every one of them claims to have working devices and to have had them for years.
If they truly had devices they could have an independent authority test them and prove it once and for all. Yet they don't so that in itself is proof they don't have the devices and therefore are charlatans. Some claim independent testing and yet we still don't see anything so what gives?
Terrawat for example had testing done by reputable companies. The tests described exactly what they wanted the test to describe. Yet anyone who understands what they were doing could see the device was just an oscillating spring. lots of torque but no ou.
Rossi claims to have built hundreds of them and heated his factories with them. but always seems to want to conquer the next milestone while at the same time asking for "licensees" to pay up thousands.
Fools are always suckered into this game.
Here is a photo of Rossi in his E-Cat heated factory
http://ecat-news.com/wp-content/gallery/early-photos/focardi-rossi-with-apparatus.jpg (http://ecat-news.com/wp-content/gallery/early-photos/focardi-rossi-with-apparatus.jpg)
And this one...
CC
Longitudinal Magneto Dielectricity (Eric Dollard) replicated by Mr Clean
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlgvBepj3Xw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DmAyYhnRgc
Quote from: Ein~+ein on July 04, 2013, 10:57:50 PM
snip...
As everyone knows, Big Oil, Big Banks, the CIA, and the Pentagon can't even suppress evidence of their own incompetence.
snip...
Unfortunately, their incompetence is buffered and aided by the Goebels effect and philosophy, which is :
If a situation requires resolution by deception, then tell a
big lie to as many people as you can, as often as you can.
Eventually the majority will accept it as truth, and it doesn't then matter what the minority believe.
Cheers
@TheCell: Facepalm.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1eMryiU1ro (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1eMryiU1ro)
@Einstein: Careful... or I'll have to dust off my Itty Bitty Purple Polka-Dot Bedini motor and show you just what _it_ can... or can't... accomplish....
8)
Quote from: TinselKoala on July 05, 2013, 03:23:06 AM
@TheCell: Facepalm.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1eMryiU1ro (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1eMryiU1ro)
@Einstein: Careful... or I'll have to dust off my Itty Bitty Purple Polka-Dot Bedini motor and show you just what _it_ can... or can't... accomplish....
8)
And the answer is...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KMLmpC7-Ls
Quote from: Qwert on July 05, 2013, 04:16:41 AM
And the answer is...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KMLmpC7-Ls (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KMLmpC7-Ls)
Awesome Absolutely Awesome. :-)
But not related to any overunity effects, or am I missing something?
Every led has it's own resonant tank circuit .. nice.
MrClean measured more out than in.
Shear genius, send it to Sterling he can sell plans and charge 10% royalty under his open source arrangement.
This is the new Keppe Fan. I worked out here in the Philippines that a similar fan is $18. (vs $250). at 10 hours a day run time and say it does save 20 watts an hour that is 200 watts per day. So at 11c kwH it will save 2.2 cents every 5 days or let round things up $2 per year
So in about 125 years we might get ahead, except if we look at the opportunity cost if the money was invested.
So if I get 5% on the $250 I get $12.50 a year.
I think you get the drift.
Mark
Thanks for your comments, everyone.
I recently suggested on an EnergeticForum.com thread (http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/12504-2013-bedini-lindemann-conference-2.html#post234351) to an attendee of the recent Lindemann-Bedini-Dollard Conference that dispensing with mainstream science may not be a good idea. Aaron Marukami's response is revealing:
Your ignorance or intentional efforts to confuse what is being said has come to an end.
Mainstream science IS bunk - that is a SEPARATE point from what is said about anyone ignoring the science at hand, which is a DIFFERENT science than mainstream science - the science AT HAND is the science at the conference, which is NOT MAINSTREAM SCIENCE.
So what you're left with when you discard the mainstream science are SOLUTIONS that mainstream science is too delusional to ever comprehend. (http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/12504-2013-bedini-lindemann-conference-2.html#post234370)
I'm left with no other option than to conclude this DIFFERENT SCIENCE is none other than pseudoscience... intended to promote false hopes and beliefs, sell books, conference tickets, etc, etc. Soon after joining his forum, when asked for evidence on another topic, Aaron not only contradicted an earlier statement he'd made but when pointed out, rather than clarifying the matter, actually threatened me. It's not surprising therefore that he would 'suppress' my membership for once again, questioning the evidence.
Elsewhere on this forum, I'd read there are those hoping to launch a class action suit against Bedini, Lindemann, et al. It might also be worth checking if they applied for or received for any state or federal 'green' tax advantage and then look into how that was verified. Unless some brave coward can prove OU with their devices, it's obvious these guys don't care about the environment---they're simply wasting everyone's time, money and getting victims to WASTE ENERGY trying!!!
Einstein:
I assume that you got booted from EF so welcome to OU. There are many people on OU that were booted from EF. You can give Stefan a lot of credit for being much more open minded than Aaron.
The original video called "Electric Motor Secrets by Peter Lindemann" was on YouTube for quite a while but Peter must have discovered that and had it taken down so I can't link to it.
I watched that video and Peter goes on and on about the "energy destroyer" inside a standard DC electric motor. He subtracts the EMF the motor produces when you drive it like a generator, from the DC voltage you feed the motor with to make it run, and calls the voltage difference the "energy destroyer." The premise is that there is something mysterious going on inside a conventional electric motor that is "destroying" energy.
In fact this mysterious "destroyer" voltage drop is the normal and expected voltage drop in the motor windings as the motor converts electrical energy into mechanical energy. It is the manifestation of the "transformer" action going on in the motor: <electrical> ---> <mechanical>
So what Peter Lindemann calls the "destroyer" is actually what becomes the useful mechanical output from the motor.
And to make matters worse, this foolishness was the big inspiration for UFOPolitics and his two giant threads on EF. UFOPolitics calls it the "Witch" and all of his funky motor rewiring schemes are supposedly to "get rid of the Witch." All that his wiring schemes do is reduce efficiency and turn the motor into a hybrid motor/electrical transformer. Not even the slightest whiff of free energy there.
Bedini claims a standard bar magnet has a "north half" and a "south half" and that there is a Bloch wall between the two halves.
That's completely and totally ridiculous and it's laughable that Bedini makes that nonsensical claim.
So, to answer your question, no accomplishments in the realm of producing free energy from either of them.
I don't know enough about Eric Dollard to comment.
MileHigh
Sad but true
Quote from: TheCell on July 05, 2013, 06:09:01 AM
But not related to any overunity effects, or am I missing something?
Every led has it's own resonant tank circuit .. nice.
MrClean measured more out than in.
Yes, you are missing something. Resonant tank circuits aren't new and they aren't free energy. "Measuring" more out than in isn't proving that you have more out than in, it is proving that your measurements are prone to error when there is RF, inductance, resonance, and other stuff sloshing around in your lab space. Concurrent validity is the by-word. You need to first validate your measurement methodology by measuring known UU devices and coming up with the right answer. Then you must measure your OU device with _other_ known good methodologies. Only if concurrently valid, multiple measurements using different techniques all give you the same answer, can you rely upon them for inferences.
Of course you could always self-loop your device and disconnect the battery supply.
Then you wouldn't need to make any measurements.
(Because the thing will stop running right away!!)
;)
@ Ein~+ein.... those folks over there are whacky. Err-on doesn't seem to realize that he is communicating using a product and a system that is the pinnacle of "mainstream science".... which is really just Science, the only science there is...... and that if it weren't for the "mainstream science" that he disrespects so disrespectfully, he probably wouldn't even be alive. And yet at the same time, his alternative pseudosciences have done nothing for the world except move dollars from the pockets of hopeful gullibles into the pockets of people like Err-on and Ashtwit themselves.
Hello to all,
I found this thread very interesting!
I used to post at EnergeticForum as Wonju, but I decided not to continue posting after my disappointment with the people managing the site. It is kind of sad but I have to agree with you about the hidden agenda from the management of the forum. Except from Eric Dollard, the credibility of the those fellows at EnergeticForum is questionable.
However, that should not discourage us from pursuing overunity. Overunity is a fact and was taught by eminent people such as Tesla, Moray, Figuera, Gray, etc. I also have seen third party certified test report for some of the devices including the EV motor from Gray.
Thanks
Quote from: bajac on July 05, 2013, 07:11:38 PM
Except from Eric Dollard, the credibility of the those fellows at EnergeticForum is questionable.
However, that should not discourage us from pursuing overunity. Overunity is a fact and was taught by eminent people such as Tesla
I have only watched one old video from Dollard. A very interesting video, in one part he was talking about DC transmission and he showed an example of it. Sadly from that video one could discern he did not understand the difference between current flow and voltage potential. he kept insisting that the electrostatic voltmeter he was using was showing current flow. (of course I understand to drive the meter their must be a minute amount of current flow). I started losing interest in him at that point.
Now on to one of the biggest mistakes blindly perpetuated by believers in OU
"Overunity is a fact and was taught by eminent people such as Tesla"
Tesla experimented with OU, but Tesla found OU was impossible. From that point forward he no longer entertained the concept. If I recall correctly the mind experiment he performed was the perpetual waterfall. At the end of that MIND experiment he declared in his writings he no longer believed OU was possible.
So don't accuse Tesla of teaching OU. He entertained it that's all.
Don't forget he also believed in Martians! And while he could test OU he couldnt test the martian theory so that to my knowledge remained.
CC
Quote from: bajac on July 05, 2013, 07:11:38 PM
Overunity is a fact and was taught by eminent people such as Tesla, Moray, Figuera, Gray, etc. I also have seen third party certified test report for some of the devices including the EV motor from Gray.
Thanks
Can you, guys show me where exactly Tesla taught that overunity is possible?
Quote from: Qwert on July 06, 2013, 01:29:49 AM
Can you, guys show me where exactly Tesla taught that overunity is possible?
That doesn't seem likely given the direction Tesla's interest took him. Unless you're a 'suppressionist' believing Tesla's lab was destroyed to threaten him against further OU research, you'll need to ask yourself why he abandoned OU devices (generation) in favour of wireless electrical transmission. Is there any evidence he even tried to promote such devices for rural or remote areas.
As for the possibility of OU, if (dark) energy and matter can indeed come from nothing, as argued by physicist Lawrence M. Krauss in his recently published A Universe from Nothing: Why There Is Something Rather Than Nothing (http://www.amazon.com/Universe-Nothing-There-Something-Rather/dp/1451624468), then isn't OU at least a theoretical possibility?
Quote from: Qwert on July 06, 2013, 01:29:49 AM
Can you, guys show me where exactly Tesla taught that overunity is possible?
Hello guys,
If i may speak, from the few Tesla books that i have read, it clearly said that indeed Tesla chased after the making of an Overunity device. He says particularly that Lord Kelvin has formulated a law that prohibited that to happen in non-anime mechanics (implying perhaps that anime organisms maybe have some sort of OU?) and he tried to bypass it.
Tesla refers some expamples as where such devices should be made of, (thermocouples, minerals, sun or wind etc) Particularly he assembled a mechanic apparatus that he says that time was well underunity but strived to perfect it though with no signs of overunity still. If i understood well it had to do with exploiting ambient heat as a peculiar heat pump.
In the same booklet he illustrates the example of the an empty vessel sunk in a lake, and says if we manage to remove the inrushing water somehow, maintaining steady difference of pressure then we would have an OU device. I supposed he tried to do so with heat but as he says unsuccessfully. At leats at that time.
Tesla moreover theorized the possibility for OU creation from gravity or magnets as soon as a material or mechanicm was devised to "mask" the gravity force at will.
Neverthelss, he nowhere mentions the making of energy out of ambient environment with a device as we picture it. i.e. compact, high power, etc
Tesla formed his theories correctly based on the standard principles that OU does not exist. He stated so in his conclusions. His goals of perfection were always to obtain near 100% efficiency in all his work preventing anyone from patenting a better device.
Power companies go through great lengths and expense to keep the power clean but it never fails and you will always find someone who thinks you can inject and combine harmonics and magically get OU. Basic wave theory https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpEevfOU4Z8 proves that the power company is correct.
If you want a good laugh look at devices like Donald Smith, tpu, magic motors and hho as these people have presented them and, well, let me put it like this, I bought a couple futures contracts in copper. Figured I may as well make a couple bucks from it too! LOL
Now I may be incorrect about Aron, and feel free to correct me, however it seems to me he is the guy who thinks that if you release a ball all those bounces before it come to rest equate to OU. "failure to calculate", or calculate correctly which ever applies.
Most of these guys go off the deep end in their theories. I read Beardens work and never him a second thought, Lindemanns magic motor, never gave that a second thought, Smith and tpu, got a good gut busting laugh out of those two, and Dollard, well if someone just needs to follow a guy who hates society and is a victim of his own devices Dollard, though he makes a lot of mistakes at least has some of his theory correct. Just dont make the mistake of challenging him or he will call you every name in the book! LOL
Unfortunately literally everything that is labelled OU today (that I have seen) is failure to properly measure their devices. People buy sometimes very expensive equipment and never bother to read its "accuracy" limitations. I have even taken the time to try and help people by explaining how to properly measure their devices and simply do not waste my time anymore.
Like many others, I am not happy with the way mainstream scholastic programs have been presented and their failure to at least recognize and give credit to people like Tesla but when I see people out here who think they have had a revelation from God with their discovery of mutual induction, I am thankful we have mainstream education.
So when it comes to OU, Tesla, from my understanding, he believed that you could use a little energy to trigger a large energy event. His problem was finding an infinite source of fuel. Not real glamorous, no fireworks.
We do this all the time, say for instance we use a spark to ignite fuel in our heat devices, the automobile engines. The problem is constantly refilling the tank with fuel. Tesla believed an infinite fuel supply existed and that man should be able to tap into it.
So Teslas' approach was not to obtain OU, but discover an infinite reservoir and then design a low engery system that would trigger high energy output and exploit it to the benefit of of mankind.
I did not post this to thwart experimentation, I used to have lots of fun and occasionally still do build projects. In fact should anyone build something that shows good potential I will build it and design a test station if necessary to properly measure it. I have not see anything as of yet. I just feel that people should at least have a minimal foundation to start from, and simply winding coils and hooking up thingie-magiggies is not a very good foundation to tackle the most difficult problems that have eluded even the most educated minds over the centuries.
I personally enjoy Lewins lectures https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsWDUqJQcpk He gives people a solid place to start and everything he lectures about is reproduce-able experimentally. Here is Richardson from Cornell https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2gOh39IyPM which better applies to what people get into here as he uses spark gaps in a couple of his demonstrations, and I dont know who did this at MIT but this is how a capacitor works https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ckpQW9sdUg and also transmission line antenna analysis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-dM7H1perc&list=PL0925FD10648D664E
That said I really do not post much anymore on any of these OU boards because from my experience most OU experimenters seem to be more interested in the amazement of their mysteries, dreams and hopes than following reality.
more:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_-RqkYatWI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSmMFog10D0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tDX85ZK14Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfUuwnD2-fg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtcVtmkDXLk
The interesting and credible thing about Tesla is that he always came back to empirical reality.
Ein~+ein, baroutologos, your opinions match my findings.
Quote from: Ein~+ein on July 06, 2013, 02:35:40 AM
That doesn't seem likely given the direction Tesla's interest took him. Unless you're a 'suppressionist' believing Tesla's lab was destroyed to threaten him against further OU research, you'll need to ask yourself why he abandoned OU devices (generation) in favour of wireless electrical transmission. Is there any evidence he even tried to promote such devices for rural or remote areas.
As for the possibility of OU, if (dark) energy and matter can indeed come from nothing, as argued by physicist Lawrence M. Krauss in his recently published A Universe from Nothing: Why There Is Something Rather Than Nothing (http://www.amazon.com/Universe-Nothing-There-Something-Rather/dp/1451624468), then isn't OU at least a theoretical possibility?
IMHO, OU is more than a theoretical possibility. According my view is a matter of time.
Possibilities already discussed.
- nano diodes. Turning the random microscopic movement of electrons into consisten current flow
- magnetic transistor. Discovering a material that would act as a semiconductor to magnetic flow.
and mild nuclear energy as
- cold fusion (hydrogen etc)
- stimulated beta decay
and so on and so forth. Of course those in order to be made will be needed (IMO) more than a backyard lab. And if already made, will not be allowed unless establishment sees it fit.
I personally am 99% sure that in the near or distant future, people will have their energy needs fulfilled by other sources than those present today.
Thanks for your comments, everyone. :)
Given my experience with energeticforum.com's selective intolerance for skeptical enquiry (http://www.energeticforum.com/water-fuel/13542-water-fuel-secrets.html#post227313), I didn't expect this thread to survive given the fact this website also receives funding from Lindemann (see ad on left).
@Peter Lindemann, John Bedini, Eric Dollard, or your followers: I'm curious whether you'd agree with conference promoter Aaron Murakami's assertion that yours is a DIFFERENT science, one providing SOLUTIONS that 'mainstream science' hasn't (http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/12504-2013-bedini-lindemann-conference-2.html#post234370). I'd also like to know if such conferences actually sell such 'solutions' (devices) rather than just the 'science' behind them as it doesn't seem audiences have either the technical aptitude (http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/12504-2013-bedini-lindemann-conference-2.html#post234408) nor even the interest (http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/12504-2013-bedini-lindemann-conference-2.html#post234351), strange as it may seem. I mean, if you really want to provide solutions, and promote yourselves at the same time, why not additionally sell devices to those who aren't DIYers?
@bartogoulos..true.most of those examples are 2nd 'law' violations.an inductor core may act as a heat sink for ambient heat under right circumstances.creating adequate circuitry to tap this takes a lot of trial and error but less effort would be required by those who understand how this happens.
Einstein:
Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction. A few thoughts relating to this thread's theme. About four years ago Aaron made some video clips in his attempt to replicate Rosemary Ainslie's circuit. Even though he had been "talking tech" and rubbing shoulders with Bedini and supposedly doing bench work for 10 years, his bench skills were almost nil and he was often completely lost. He couldn't understand that there is no voltage drop across an ideal inductor with DC current going through it. A couple of years ago at a conference Aaron's buddy Bedini demonstrates a giant "windmill" "motor." What did it actually do, what was it's practical purpose? Only The Shadow knows. Bedini claimed that it had to be aligned with the Earth's magnetic field.... right. Peter Lindemann at a recent conference said that he was going to reveal the secret tech behind a Nazi WWII motor/generator that was a "proven" free energy device. The net result of the thread on EF is that Peter was only talking about a device that collects the back spike. Like wow man, that's really new and exciting.
Probably the most striking thing for me at these Bedini-themed conferences, is that they never explain to their audience how the main drive coil in a Bedini motor works. You think that they would have a high-profile workshop called "understanding the dynamics of the main coil" or something like that. They don't do this because they need to perpetuate the myth about the coil and the "radiant energy" that it outputs and the tantalizing tease that says perhaps some of the "radiant energy" comes in from the environment. So, almost nobody that attends these Bedini-themed conferences truly understands how a coil works, the majority of the coordinators that work the conference don't understand how a coil works, and the attendees end up leaving the conference still ignorant about how the main drive coil works. It's a barrel of monkeys for sure.
MileHigh
Quote from: profitis on July 07, 2013, 10:24:32 AM
@bartogoulos..true.most of those examples are 2nd 'law' violations.an inductor core may act as a heat sink for ambient heat under right circumstances.creating adequate circuitry to tap this takes a lot of trial and error but less effort would be required by those who understand how this happens.
Those who actually do understand how this will not happen will tell you its folly....but a nice line of inquiry
Kind Regards
no @milehigh.they probably do this so that they CAN deflect attention away from the thermodynamic fundamentals.they rather point at 'space vibes' or 'zero point' so that they can be one up on the rest.they know more than they let on,at least in some cases.some of those guys hint at the fundamentals here and there.Speaking of 'zero point energy' is technicly not erronius when dealing with 2nd law discrepencies but one realy has to know ones relativity physics basics to get the proper picture on that and how it pertains to 2nd law fundamentals.its the long way round.
Profits:
You are obsessed on this notion that 2nd law violations are hiding everywhere. I don't believe it. Perhaps do some experiments yourself to find out if your ideas have any merit.
The main drive coil in a Bedini motor is as dead as a doornail and thermodynamics are not in play when analyzing how the motor operates no matter how much you want that to be the case.
MileHigh
@markdansie..the fewer possible energy states in a system,the more orderly it becomes,the smaller the word folly becomes..
@milehigh.ive seen 2nd law infarctions upfront buddy.plenty more experiments to do yes.either bedini doesnt know his thermodynamics or somebody replicated wrong?
Quote from: profitis on July 07, 2013, 08:10:23 PM
@milehigh.ive seen 2nd law infarctions upfront buddy.plenty more experiments to do yes.either bedini doesnt know his thermodynamics or somebody replicated wrong?
I'd wager you have done nothing of the sort, since you have you repeatedly shown in the past that you do not understand the meaning of the 2nd Law.
@libre i wager your wager and drag you infront of a karpen battery..you owe me
I lost faith in Bedini when he explained that his Epsom salt, after being heated into the molten state, didn't absorb water molecules. I couldn't believe he was making this claim. I think Chemistry 101 involves hydrated and anhydrous Copper Sulphate (anyone remember heating this and turning it from blue to white?). Well, this is module 102. Anhydrous Magnesium Sulphate is a DRYING AGENT and readily absorbs water from the air. It's even on the wiki page!! And so his 'dry crystal battery' isn't dry! It is constantly absorbing water from the air, and the water acts as an electrolyte which decays his electrodes, making it a typical galvanic battery.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_sulfate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_sulfate)
Since his ridiculous claims of having a non galvanic and dry battery, in spite of using a molten drying agent which readily absorbs 7 water molecules per molecule of MgSO4, I have ignored all the rest of what he says. And, in consequence, I have become far more suspicious of characters like Dollard. He says some ridiculous things also, and rather often. I heard him say recently that the Sun isn't visible in space!! That was more Dollard than I could handle, and I haven't watched him since.
The FE business is full of scammers, and nothing irritates me more these days than the words 'free energy' on a tesla coil video, or home made battery. And even our beloved Stefan (not just Sterling Allen) is guilty of using this simple tactic to get more views. Just check out his 'free energy' Aluminium/Carbon fibre battery, which uses an alkaline electrolyte.....Can I make a video of a Duracell battery, and call it free energy, or would that be dishonest?
Come on Stefan - don't join the other plonkers by adding the word 'overunity' and 'free energy' on videos which clearly demonstrate regular and well understood effects. Have a bit more self respect!
Thanks for listening to my rant! I always read TinselKoalas posts, cos I think he's one of the most honest guys on here!
;D
no man.those are all regular galvanic.im talking about the karpen pile.its electrodes cannot react with electrolyte.gold and platinum electrode potentials are above the surrounding influences.
Quote from: profitis on July 07, 2013, 07:45:54 PM
no @milehigh.they probably do this so that they CAN deflect attention away from the thermodynamic fundamentals.they rather point at 'space vibes' or 'zero point' so that they can be one up on the rest.they know more than they let on,at least in some cases.some of those guys hint at the fundamentals here and there.Speaking of 'zero point energy' is technicly not erronius when dealing with 2nd law discrepencies but one realy has to know ones relativity physics basics to get the proper picture on that and how it pertains to 2nd law fundamentals.its the long way round.
Hey Profitis,
I guess you know what profitis means in Greek, don't you? :P
By the way, you refer to exotic possibilities than in order to be of any real world value, must be investigated and confirmed.
What you said in another thread as an example of possible entropy flow reversal is the example with the isothermal box and a magnifier lenses.
Hmm i am not expert, but if we assume the diffusal of EM photos increase entropy and a magnifier lenses "compacts" the back together is a sign of decreased entropy, it seems reasonable to say that it.. violates 2nd law? :P And assuming this happens, it is due to the nature of rays (waves?) and their properties.
Has any other material any useful property to allow us to open a window to 2nd law violation? Easy replies without too much mind boggling theory are always welcomed.
hi baroutologos,actualy ive got some greek blood yes(greek-dutch-german).wish i was working for defkalion and contributing to research but stuck in south africa for now sitting on some of my own intrigueing research.its true what you said about light concentrating onto a focal point,it can be viewed as an entropy reduction from the standpoint of concentrating energy in the universe and on the other hand it can be viewed as entropy increase from the standpoint of breaking the parallelness of light rays but when it comes to this happening in a isothermal box things can get tricky indeed,even more tricky when one takes into account the phenomena known as upconversion.you can upconvert far infrared to eg.visible light with no expenditure of energy then shove it onto a solar panel and then get electricity day and night.do you think this would constitute a 2nd law breach baroutogolos? Instinctively it does when i ponder over it.im going to google now what profitis means in greek,i hope its not a swear word lol,,ego pesto ligo helliniki.
@baroutogolos,,by the way,the karpen pile has had practical use in one or two militaries.it doesnt run flat,ever.this is one clean example of a 2nd law paradox that we can rule out all other sources of energy nicely.its energy density reaches too large a value by far to be attributable to ordinary ambient conditions in the dark eg.vibration, sound etc.you can put it far away from light,radiowaves,vibration and still get same electrical power.theres zero correllation to these things.
Quote from: profitis on July 08, 2013, 10:37:21 AM
@baroutogolos,,by the way,the karpen pile has had practical use in one or two militaries.it doesnt run flat,ever.
profitis
can you check Edison etheric force topic ? I bet you find it very interesting.....
Quote from: flathunter on July 08, 2013, 05:18:43 AM
The FE business is full of scammers...
That thought lead to me start this thread:
Just how big is the FE Scam Industry (in $ millions annually <10, 10-100, >100? (http://www.overunity.com/13617/just-how-big-is-the-fe-scam-industry-in-millions-annually-10-10-100-100/new/#new)
While the public may recall Steorn, Magnacoaster or similar scams, they may be surprised by the sheer volume of false claims being made AND TOO EASILY BELIEVED by unwary investors and would-be replicators. If Rossi becomes the next FE scam story to make int'l headlines, journalists will want to put this in perspective by publishing such overall estimates. Rumour has it that Rossi's just sold his 3rd unit to an undisclosed American... at another $1.5 million. Currently, the only mainstream press Rossi's getting is from a lone Forbes Sci&Tech journalist. I'm with Mark and other skeptics on this one in believing it's a scam although LENR may not be.
@einstein.thats a strange juxtaposition youve got there:'rossi may be a scam but lenr may not be'.??..who in their right mind is going to fork out 1.5mils before cheking the thing out for themselves?
@forest yes the guys of old instinctively knew there was something unusual going on.today we launch an all-out assualt on these issues with better knowledge than yesteryear and tackle them head-on.
Quote from: profitis on July 08, 2013, 01:28:48 PM
@einstein.thats a strange juxtaposition youve got there:'rossi may be a scam but lenr may not be'.??..who in their right mind is going to fork out 1.5mils before cheking the thing out for themselves?
It could be all part of the ploy but then who in their right mind would invest in a Magnacoaster sight unseen or anything else seen on TV? Point is, they do--even the Obama administration as the No More Solyndras bill demonstrates. As for the juxtaposition, the art of scamming requires starting with a kernel of truth and then embellishing it, making it wonderful and appealing. Rossi's not the only one working on LENR, there's research going on at several universities and even at MIT although not much is publicly funded.
lol @einstein..3 guys have handed over 1.5mil and rossi,s still alive? I wouldve killed him even if he had stolen only 40bux of my money and im a nice guy.it could be all part of a ploy but then at what point does it no longer be part a ploy?the 4th 1.5mil? The 6th? The 8th?
@profitis..3 guys have ALLEGEDLY handed over 1.5mil. Believe me, it doesn't take much to convince some, take for example Magnacoaster--look at how utterly unconvincing Richard (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWx0oKVQRY0) was even for a public audience.
Accomplishments are recognized by actions not words.
Bearden? Just an old blow hard that talked all day about theories and "someone should be able to figure this out". What good is that?
Bedini? Spike Charging batteries. A huge leap in restoring batteries and keeping them healthy but hardly OU! Does he run his workshop on his system? Noooooo. Hooked to the grid like everyone else. Mucking around with 'dry' 'crystal' batteries that are purely galvanic. He has nothing. Makes plenty of money selling his expensive chargers and pulse motors whilst waffling on how "the world isnt ready for the truth". LOOOOL More like he isnt ready to give up the money that flows to his bank account (and never will be)!!
Lindemann? An old fool that rides on the coat tails of others. Has a vested interest in Energetic forum and selling the scammy health water over there. Has been involved in multiple FE pyramid schemes and writes endless literature on rehashed internet malarky.
Why people listen to these people and pay to go to their conventions is beyond me.
For fun I am learning a bit about Eric Dollard. It turns out that there is a big battle going on related to him on EF. It's really intense drama, it's a sticky thread.
Quote from: MileHigh on July 13, 2013, 12:18:07 AM
For fun I am learning a bit about Eric Dollard. It turns out that there is a big battle going on related to him on EF. It's really intense drama....
Not surprising. I'd be on the defensive too if someone told me I'd been had---that all the time, effort and expense I'd put into trying to replicate something that never worked in the first place, was my own fault, for not being skeptical enough.
Quote from: MileHigh on July 13, 2013, 12:18:07 AM
For fun I am learning a bit about Eric Dollard. It turns out that there is a big battle going on related to him on EF. It's really intense drama, it's a sticky thread.
Eric's lab is being taken over by Giant Negroes from Mars??
(Apparently this is what Eric called Ray? With the pink motorcycle and the bondage-S&M themed decals?)
Crazy, man, like real crazy.
I think it probable, that none of them have achieved OU with a device, or probably, we would all be using it. However, the search for OU is it's self, in my view neither a waste, nor a foolish endeavor. I don't regret my involvement at all.
Main stream science, is science that is not permitted to explore OU, since "it's not possible". This statement is not written down in any
of the text books, but it is clear in the attitude of academia.
All human minds have prejudice. The scientific mind is only theoretically free from prejudice. The history of science is it's self, full of the evidence of this fact, and clearly demonstrates the difficulty with which many of the great discoveries and inventions were brought forward.
Fakers, the self deceived, and the how and why, some individuals, have lost their way, are less important than the pursuit we are engaged in (OU). Stay with it brothers and sisters.
Quote from: Floor on July 16, 2013, 05:58:53 PM
I think it probable, that none of them have achieved OU with a device, or probably, we would all be using it. However, the search for OU is it's self, in my view neither a waste, nor a foolish endeavor. I don't regret my involvement at all.
Main stream science, is science that is not permitted to explore OU, since "it's not possible". This statement is not written down in any
of the text books, but it is clear in the attitude of academia.
All human minds have prejudice. The scientific mind is only theoretically free from prejudice. The history of science is it's self, full of the evidence of this fact, and clearly demonstrates the difficulty with which many of the great discoveries and inventions were brought forward.
Fakers, the self deceived, and the how and why, some individuals, have lost their way, are less important than the pursuit we are engaged in (OU). Stay with it brothers and sisters.
If this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YprzfnLRTi4) can be believed, we already have abundant safe energy that could solve the energy crisis!
We do Hoppy, many countries are already heading towards 100% renewable energy
Kind Regards
@hoppy.who says 'we' want to solve the energy 'crisis'?
Aaron Murakami is Trying to Get Eric's Articles Taken down by Copyright Claims
http://aetherforce.com/aaron-murakami-is-trying-to-get-erics-articles-taken-down-by-copyright-claims/ (http://aetherforce.com/aaron-murakami-is-trying-to-get-erics-articles-taken-down-by-copyright-claims/)
Quote from: profitis on July 18, 2013, 03:59:17 PM
@hoppy.who says 'we' want to solve the energy 'crisis'?
Please carefully re-read the sentence I wrote.
yes@hoppy i read ur reply and floor,s comment.my conclusion is overunity does indeed exist and that any energy 'crisis' should rather be interpreted as financial 'crises' and that the word crises should rather be interpreted as 'manufactured diversion tactic so that we can steal more of your money so go watch a xxx movie and get off our tits' lol.
Quote from: Hoppy on July 21, 2013, 10:53:56 AM
Please carefully re-read the sentence I wrote.
Aaron is on Dollard's side. He's trying to stop a third party from selling Dollard's book without permission and profiting from it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5V-aHcR5Ts
Quote from: happyfunball on July 21, 2013, 03:27:19 PM
Aaron is on Dollard's side. He's trying to stop a third party from selling Dollard's book without permission and profiting from it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5V-aHcR5Ts
The shocking thing about infighting is how Sterling Allan attributes it as the No. #1 impediment (http://pesn.com/2013/07/20/9502343_Own-Worst-Enemy_syndrome_epitomized_in_recent_Eric_Dollard_clash/#Part_III) to FE devices becoming widely available, 4 times more likely than the so-called 'suppression' claim:
QuoteFor years, I've talked about the pie chart showing the major obstacles that need to be overcome in order to bring an exotic free energy technology to market. And the take home message of that pie chart is that while suppression is indeed an element to dealt with, the most difficult obstacle by far -- more than twice that of any other obstacle, is "interpersonal conflicts" -- people can't get along with each other, inventors with eccentric personalities, ego, pride, paranoia.
Over and over again, a technology is held back for these "own worst enemy" factors -- the infighting. In my experience, over the past 11+ years of being immersed in this arena, the above pie chart is a fairly close representation of what I have observed repeatedly.
@Sterling: So why the infighting if nobody can tell me what Dollard has accomplished other than the publication of a book that sells well enough to cause such infighting?
Heh... I have to disagree with Sterling. There is another, even larger factor that prevents exotic free energy technology from being accepted in the market. And that is, of course, that nobody has come up with such a technology. Yet?
YET !
no he,s right @floor,,,it must be written like that with the questionmark,'yet?'
YET!
im not in the mood to get violent..but dont test me..
Quote from: profitis on August 03, 2013, 10:10:32 PM
im not in the mood to get violent..but dont test me..
Apology
I did not enter into these "OU" forums to simply nay say, or to critique spelling or grammar or punctuation. But then how would know this? I might be just another toll. I'm not.
I'm not trying to "test you" or anyone else, or to stir up infighting. My OWN emphasis in using an "!" instead of a "?" is intended to emphasis, my determination, and the determination of others, to explore / find an "OU" device or exotic environmentally friendly energy sources.
If indeed such devices already exist "?", but have been suppressed, by either infighting or powerful external forces, I'm quite sure that I don't know this to be, either true or not true. I do agree that suppression is a possibility, even likely. Cheers :)
gotcha @floor.the reason i emphasized the question mark is because such proposed overunities do exist and not all 'suppressed'.ive already put a bet up one of these threads that if anyone can disprove that what is known as the karpen pile isnt total in-your-face overunity then i,l put a vid of me walking in the public streets in my underwear here on this website but no takers thus far,even in theory..thats why i hate to see people say,yet! when its not true.i gues most people are not aware though so we cool floor.
Quote from: profitis on August 04, 2013, 07:37:58 PM
gotcha @floor.the reason i emphasized the question mark is because such proposed overunities do exist and not all 'suppressed'.ive already put a bet up one of these threads that if anyone can disprove that what is known as the karpen pile isnt total in-your-face overunity then i,l put a vid of me walking in the public streets in my underwear here on this website but no takers thus far,even in theory..thats why i hate to see people say,yet! when its not true.i gues most people are not aware though so we cool floor.
Well i look forward to seeing that video of you strolling down the street in your underwear (no not realy)
An overunity device has a COP of 1>. So unless you or some one else has figured out how to create energy,then an overunity device cannot exist-as the energy has to come from some where. So no-the karpen pile battery is not an overunity device. I would think it more a long life thermo/chemical battery. The problem you have Profitis,is that no one has to disprove an overunity device,but more that the inventor has to prove it to be an overunity device-and this has never been done with the karpen pile battery,or any other device to date. The fact that it has been outputting a small voltage and current for 60 year's,in no way means that it is an overunity device. The Zamboni pile battery has been operating a lot longer than that in the oxford electric bell,which was constructed in 1840. While the current output may be less,the voltage is much higher(via static charge) than the 1 volt that the karpen pile battery produces.You have temp variations throughout the day,and you have two dissimilar metals submerged in sulfuric acid-all the makeings of a battery.The fact that he used gold and platinum for the electrodes,would explain the long life of the electrods them self. It was named the "the uniform-temperature thermoelectric pile".
@tinman,wrong,you can put a karpen pile in a totaly stable temperature system and still get exact same energy thus your theory is disproved instantly.2)you can test for presence of gold ions dissolving into the acid and you will get zero result thus your other theory is totaly disproved.3)the oxford and gamboni piles are slow regular galvanic systems easily run flat or at least down by totaly short-circuiting them for some time,not true for the karpen pile,thus your theory is again null and void.4) im declaring it an overunity device and nobody can and will be able to prove otherwise,anybody can build and replicate for their own testing purposes. 5)the source of overunity energy in the karpen pile is a sinkhole for ambient heat in violation of the second law of thermodynamics,it runs smooth anywhere in the world,at any place,at any time,at any temperature,even siberia,ten thousand miles away from the nearest city powerline,case closed.im going to give you ten thousand american dollars @tinman,if you, even in theory,can prove me wrong,then you dont have to see my underwear.
Quote from: profitis on August 05, 2013, 09:32:07 AM
@tinman,wrong,you can put a karpen pile in a totaly stable temperature system and still get exact same energy thus your theory is disproved instantly.2)you can test for presence of gold ions dissolving into the acid and you will get zero result thus your other theory is totaly disproved.3)the oxford and gamboni piles are slow regular galvanic systems easily run flat or at least down by totaly short-circuiting them for some time,not true for the karpen pile,thus your theory is again null and void.4) im declaring it an overunity device and nobody can and will be able to prove otherwise,anybody can build and replicate for their own testing purposes. 5)the source of overunity energy in the karpen pile is a sinkhole for ambient heat in violation of the second law of thermodynamics,it runs smooth anywhere in the world,at any place,at any time,at any temperature,even siberia,ten thousand miles away from the nearest city powerline,case closed.im going to give you ten thousand american dollars @tinman,if you, even in theory,can prove me wrong,then you dont have to see my underwear.
It's like i said,unless you can create energy,then it is not an overunity device. As we know energy CANNOT be created-then you have your proof. Just because no one knows where that energy come's from,dosnt make it an overunity device. A solar pannel is a free energy device,as we know where the energy comes from,and the same will apply for the karpen pile battery.You call it overunity because you dont know it's energy source,but it dose have one. Also there is the fact that no one has be aloud to do any testing or reserch on the device,other than to test it's voltage in 2006.
Energy can only be transformed from one state to another,not created.
That is your proof. And it's like i said,a device dosnt have to be disproven-it has to be proven to be overunity.And there is no proof of that.
Getting back on track,here is another unfounded claim by the JB camp,and this is a quote from the intermediate sg handbook.
Quote: Optimum Discharge Circuits:
John has developed an automatic discharge circuit that optimizes the
capacitor discharge and the battery charging process. It has repeatedly
produced the highest COPs for any SG Energizer that I have ever heard of.
That number is a COP > 1.25.
One of many claims never proven.
Another that i find to be just stupid is this one
Quote: This machine was one of the "self-runners"
that John demonstrated in 2002. It ran for over
6 weeks straight, just rotating the batteries
from front to back. So, very large capacitors
discharging relatively high current, low
voltage impulses is certainly a method that
works.
??? Um no,it's not a self runner-it was running of the batteries.The average guy can build a pulse motor that will run for 6 months of a AA battery.
I find it truly astounding that they continue to make claim that inductive kickback circuits alone can give you a self runner. Infact i would put my CJ pulse motor up against there best any time.
Look at Lasersabers latest creation-a pulse motor that runs on 1 uA. Now there is an example for you Profitis.On a 1300mA AAA battery Lasersabers motor would run for 148 year's. So 60 years isnt that far fetch when you look at it like that.
Quote from: tinman on August 05, 2013, 11:32:43 AM
Getting back on track,here is another unfounded claim by the JB camp,and this is a quote from the intermediate sg handbook.
Quote: Optimum Discharge Circuits:
John has developed an automatic discharge circuit that optimizes the
capacitor discharge and the battery charging process. It has repeatedly
produced the highest COPs for any SG Energizer that I have ever heard of.
That number is a COP > 1.25.
One of many claims never proven.
Another that i find to be just stupid is this one
Quote: This machine was one of the "self-runners"
that John demonstrated in 2002. It ran for over
6 weeks straight, just rotating the batteries
from front to back. So, very large capacitors
discharging relatively high current, low
voltage impulses is certainly a method that
works.
??? Um no,it's not a self runner-it was running of the batteries.The average guy can build a pulse motor that will run for 6 months of a AA battery.
I find it truly astounding that they continue to make claim that inductive kickback circuits alone can give you a self runner. Infact i would put my CJ pulse motor up against there best any time.
Look at Lasersabers latest creation-a pulse motor that runs on 1 uA. Now there is an example for you Profitis.On a 1300mA AAA battery Lasersabers motor would run for 148 year's. So 60 years isnt that far fetch when you look at it like that.
Agreed. A battery desulfator / conditioner at best.
@tinman..the energy source is exactly like karpen said,ambient heat at uniform temperature,in violation of the 2nd law.you dont hav to go to romania to test it,just shove a piece of etched platinum and etched gold into acid and measure all you like but be careful, you might break your microampmeter,the power is proportional to surface area and is quite strong.its a pity that you dont want my ten thousand dollars tinman.im totaly confident that no-one will take it because the karpen pile is clearly overunity.btw Laserbasers batteries will completely run flat after i short-circuit them for 3days,or by self-discharge after 1year.
Quote from: profitis on August 05, 2013, 02:45:03 PM
@tinman..the energy source is exactly like karpen said,ambient heat at uniform temperature,in violation of the 2nd law.you dont hav to go to romania to test it,just shove a piece of etched platinum and etched gold into acid and measure all you like but be careful, you might break your microampmeter,the power is proportional to surface area and is quite strong.its a pity that you dont want my ten thousand dollars tinman.im totaly confident that no-one will take it because the karpen pile is clearly overunity.btw Laserbasers batteries will completely run flat after i short-circuit them for 3days,or by self-discharge after 1year.
If you're so convinced the Karpen Pile is OU, then make one yourself with the $10,000 instead of spouting an endless stream of nonsense.
Quote from: profitis on August 05, 2013, 09:32:07 AM
@tinman,wrong,you can put a karpen pile in a totaly stable temperature system and still get exact same energy thus your theory is disproved instantly.2)you can test for presence of gold ions dissolving into the acid and you will get zero result thus your other theory is totaly disproved.3)the oxford and gamboni piles are slow regular galvanic systems easily run flat or at least down by totaly short-circuiting them for some time,not true for the karpen pile,thus your theory is again null and void.4) im declaring it an overunity device and nobody can and will be able to prove otherwise,anybody can build and replicate for their own testing purposes. 5)the source of overunity energy in the karpen pile is a sinkhole for ambient heat in violation of the second law of thermodynamics,it runs smooth anywhere in the world,at any place,at any time,at any temperature,even siberia,ten thousand miles away from the nearest city powerline,case closed.im going to give you ten thousand american dollars @tinman,if you, even in theory,can prove me wrong,then you dont have to see my underwear.
As described by many-The cell transforms environmental heat to electric energy.
Enviromental heat come's from the sun,and the sun consumes fuel.
It's like i said,it converts one form of energy to another-it dose not produce energy,only converts it.
This means that it is not an overunity device,as the output of electrical energy is the same as the input of heat energy.It is a converter,just like a solar cell,wind generator or hydroelectric generator,where as you use energy from the enviroment to produce electricity.Here is an example of enviromental heat providing energy to do work.It takes 4186.8 joules of energy to raise 1 liter of water by 1 degree C. Take 1 liter of water from your tap on a warm day. Measure the temp of the water straight away. Now place that jug of water on the kitchen table,and take a temp reading 3 hours later.Lets say the temp rose by 3 degree's C. This would have taken 12560.4 joules of energy to achieve this. So where did that energy come from?-thats right,the enviroment. Do we call this an overunity event?,no as the source of the energy came from the sun,and the sun consumes fuel. Our jug of water is also a sink hole for ambiant heat.
Has the device ever been tested,other than in 2006 ?And lets look at the excuse for it not being on public display-The invention cannot be exposed because the museum doesn't have enough money to buy the security system necessary for such an exhibit.
Realy?-Dont tell me there wouldnt be many people and companies out ther that wouldnt put up the money to see the worlds first ""overunity machine""
Were dose it sit-in the directors office,outside of anyone's view-Mmm.
Is there any info avalible on the galvanometric motor>-how much current dose it draw?,what is the frequency of the pulse rate for this motor?
Can you prove that it indeed run's 24 hours a day? or are you going on asumptions and the words of the director?.
It's like i said,a so called overunity device has to be proven,not disproven. And up until now,you have provided no proof that it is an overunity device-nor has anyone else.
I stand by my claim-energy cannot be created,only transformed-therefore there can be no machine that produces more energy than it consume's.
The karpen pile has an energy source equal to ,or greater than the energy output.
So i challeng you to build it,and prove to us that it is an overunity device.Then to disprove enviromental heat as the source of power(which is provided by the sun)simply bring the temp down to 0 degree's C. Why should you build this device?,simple-you would be the first in the world to prove an overunity device could be built,and you sound very sure that it is an overunity device.
You may say it would cost to much to build,but there is thousands of dollars reward being offered to the first to show an overunity device. This is your chance to make it big,and prove to us all that it is what you say it is.
Now that thats out of the way,lets get back on subject.I would like to show another paragraph from the book,and also repeat one i have already submited.
The first being this from the intermediate sg handbook-slightly modified so as there is no copyrite issue's
Quote: B2 says B1 has developed an automatic discharge circuit that optimizes the
capacitor discharge and the battery charging process. It has repeatedly
produced the highest COPs for any SG Energizer that I have ever heard of.
That number is a COP > 1.25.
Here is another paragraph from the same handbook.
Quote: B2 say -None of us who have been involved with B1's
invention for a long time know how to measure the efficiency of the
complete system when the measurements are taken on the machine. All the
simple measurements of the Input and Output, that we know how to take
and calculate correctly, lead to erroneous conclusions about the real energy
economy of the system.
So how do they get a COP of 1.25 from admited ERRONEOUS CONCLUSIONS ?
Then there is PL's video-Perpetual Motion Reality.The thread at EF in reguards to this had this post made by PL.-Please do not post here unless you bought the video,or attended the conference.
Here is the sale's pitch for the video-
You not only get the history, but you will learn about examples of
machines that actually are Perpetual Motion machines
once you learn what this actually means. One thing is clear, the
"skeptics" have absolutely no idea.
PL will also reveal an original design of a theoretical
advanced energy machine that is intended to produce both mechanical
and electrical energy WITHOUT a prime mover!
As you would know,PL has not yet produced a Perpetual Motion machine.
And he says skeptics have no idea lol.
@tinman if your theory was true then the voltage and current would drasticly vary in your cupboard vs my cupboard,one place to another.this doesnt happen thus again your theory is totaly incorrect.if you have a thermocouple,which is designed for harvesting oscillating temperatures,that can produce anywhere near the karpen power density in my cupboard then i,l give you the ten thousand.karpen said uniform temperature,not oscillating temperature.oscillating temperature is not required.im the one offering the prize tinman.ten thousand dollars to anyone who can disprove the karpen overunity,even in theory.
@happy..no.im going to give ten thousand dollars to the first person who can make the karpen cell run flat to zero.
Unless the room that the karpen pile battery is in has climate controll,then the temp is not uniform.Warmer during the day than at night.The temp between anode and cathode will be uniform,but it is also so with the jug of water.Energy is required to raise the temp of the water in the jug,and energy is required to decrease the temp of the water in the jug.This will happen day after day,month after month and year after year.
Your saying the karpen pile is overunity,and that is saying it has a COP of 1> ,which means that it is creating energy. Sorry,but it dose not create energy<< that is your proof that it is not overunity,unless you think energy can be created?.An overunity device is a device that yet dosnt have a know energy input source,but it dose have one.Once that source is known,then it becomes an exotice energy device.In time it will become nothing out of the ordinary-much like the plane.. Ofcourse please feel free to prove that energy is being created by this device if you wish. Until then-sorry,but no cigar.
Can you please provide the details i asked for in my last post?.
Quote from: profitis on August 06, 2013, 09:47:42 AM
@happy..no.im going to give ten thousand dollars to the first person who can make the karpen cell run flat to zero.
Profitis,maybe we have our wires crossed here?. What is your understanding of an overunity device?.
@tinman.it is very clearly explained in the wikipaedia.a overunity device is a device that doesnt need a temperature difference to give us work.a karpen pile does not need a temperature difference to give us grossly dis-proportionate work.its getting its energy from a difference in electrostatic potential btween gold and platinum in acid solution.gold and platinum cannot chemicaly react so the system compensates in one of two ways.1) it can split water into hydrogen and oxygen to reach electrostatic equilibrium or 2)it can shift oxygen gas from one electrode to the other to reach electrostatic equilibrium.number 2 has been proven to happen.a karpen pile does not work under argon gas.it works under air or oxygen gas.
heres the electrochemical equasions: at cathode O + 2H++ +2e- = H2O. and at anode H2O = O + 2H++ +2e-. One electrode heats up and the other cools down,spontaneously.the cycle is repeatable ad infinitum.
Quote from: profitis on August 06, 2013, 11:13:13 AM
heres the electrochemical equasions: at cathode O + 2H++ +2e- = H2O. and at anode H2O = O + 2H++ +2e-. One electrode heats up and the other cools down,spontaneously.the cycle is repeatable ad infinitum.
@Profitis: I sincerely doubt the above cycle could repeat itself ad infinitum.
What 'wikipaedia' definition are you referring to? Searching for 'overunity' on Wikipedia.org redirects to 'perpetual motion' where it's not even mentioned. In fact, the only web definition I've come up with is: "The hypothetical continuous operation of an isolated mechanical device or other closed system without a sustaining energy source." It's not a term recognized by either Oxford or Webster's online dictionaries, the two most comprehensive dictionaries of the English language.
@einstein you can doubt all you want.that cycle will and does go on and on way beyond our biological lifetimes.im an electrochemist,ive studied it in detail.when i say overunity i mean a violation of the 2nd law of thermodynamics.this cell performs work,the heat equivalent of that work is returned to the cell by absorbtion of heat from a single thermal resovoir,the ambient.its a perpetuum mobilum of the 2nd kind by definition.it wont work under argon.it works under air.
Wikipedia also says this about the karpen pile battery.
Quote: making it either a supremely effective method of storing energy or a hoax,
Maybe gold or platinum has the ability to lose electrons with little effort ?
Platinum dose have the abilty to ionize almost anything it comes into contact with,one of the reasons it's used in cat coverters.
nope,gold and platinum will only lose electrons with tremendous effort,thats why they resist corrosion.platinum will however make it easier for other elements to lose electrons or gain electrons,thats where the catalytic use comes from.wikipaedia will never admit to perpetual motion of course,but they do admit their confusion.
Bedini, Lindemann, Bearden, Dollard, etc have achieved that we know about Tesla, Mooray, etc. Beyond that they have achieved nothing as nobody knows how to create free energy.
Learning about free energy but still having to pay utilities high fees is a great frustration.
Having to put up with jewish supremacist Aaron is also a frustration.
Quote from: bugler on August 18, 2013, 01:22:38 PMHaving to put up with jewish supremacist Aaron is also a frustration.
Surprisingly, Aaron discredits himself far better than you or I could. Just look at his highly charged responses to my straightforward questions. I still can't believe he didn't delete my comments along with his contradictory or dismissive responses or permitted me to post for so long.
Quote from: bugler on August 18, 2013, 01:22:38 PM
Bedini, Lindemann, Bearden, Dollard, etc have achieved that we know about Tesla, Mooray, etc. Beyond that they have achieved nothing as nobody knows how to create free energy.
Learning about free energy but still having to pay utilities high fees is a great frustration.
Having to put up with jewish supremacist Aaron is also a frustration.
Smoke and noise , that's all. The best method to coverup the truth is by hiding in plain with a lot of noise and garbage connected....but hey, what do you expect ? everybody need money to live in this crazy world....
Aaron... Bedini's lieutenant. I started as a naive / desperate seeker of the OU energy, thinking back then that it would solve most of my problems and prove muself few things, and those fake scietists were more that eager to welcome me in a fallacy that would result only in frustration and drain my energy and resources.
http://www.energeticforum.com/john-bedini/6159-r-charge-bedini-solar-power-charger-4.html#post110431 (http://www.energeticforum.com/john-bedini/6159-r-charge-bedini-solar-power-charger-4.html#post110431)
this is my last post to enegetic forum before got a permanent ban then.
My advice, steer away from those people.
Something hilarious now, the people that i hang out know my past with Bedini's tech passion i once had along with the false claims Bedini and his company make from time to time about excess energy etc etc so if we see any false ad in a product that is advertised, we raise the eyebrow and we call it Bedini style hahaha :)
Or if anyone hides a secret that actually is nothing etc we raise the eyebrow and say " why Bedini raises his eyebrows? what is the secret of the free energy he has?" haha..
perhaps you find it not amusing but me and my company make me laugh every time :P
There books are a joke,mostly copy and past from the internet on tesla's work.Then they go and sell it to you lol.Funny thing is,people still keep on buying them lol. I will never buy a book or video that gives instructions to some UNPROVEN free energy machine.
And not one of there "so called" free energy machines or OU machines have ever been proven to this date-but the people still keep buying.
Cant they be charged for missleading the public for profit or something?.
Quote from: baroutologos on August 19, 2013, 04:15:00 AM
Aaron... Bedini's lieutenant. I started as a naive / desperate seeker of the OU energy, thinking back then that it would solve most of my problems and prove muself few things, and those fake scietists were more that eager to welcome me in a fallacy that would result only in frustration and drain my energy and resources.
http://www.energeticforum.com/john-bedini/6159-r-charge-bedini-solar-power-charger-4.html#post110431 (http://www.energeticforum.com/john-bedini/6159-r-charge-bedini-solar-power-charger-4.html#post110431)
this is my last post to enegetic forum before got a permanent ban then.
My advice, steer away from those people.
Something hilarious now, the people that i hang out know my past with Bedini's tech passion i once had along with the false claims Bedini and his company make from time to time about excess energy etc etc so if we see any false ad in a product that is advertised, we raise the eyebrow and we call it Bedini style hahaha :)
Or if anyone hides a secret that actually is nothing etc we raise the eyebrow and say " why Bedini raises his eyebrows? what is the secret of the free energy he has?" haha..
perhaps you find it not amusing but me and my company make me laugh every time :P
Its very noticeable that Bedini avoids technical discussion with anyone displaying a degree of competency in electronics and electrical principles. His favourite audience are newbies that have become captivated by his bicycle wheel energisers and exotic theories, that can be herded like lemmings into forums where they are exposed to his ever growing collection of merchandise.
Quote from: tinman on August 19, 2013, 08:54:27 AM
There books are a joke,mostly copy and past from the internet on tesla's work.Then they go and sell it to you lol.
You say 'mostly copy and paste' from the internet? That may be grounds for copyright violation unless permission was granted or the copyright has expired. The copyright holder must also be willing to take them to court. As I'd mentioned in a previous post, there was an attempt to launch a class action suit against them (on another thread here)...if anyone cares to resurrect it.
See what I mean about Aaron discrediting himself better than anyone else could?: "You have caused trouble around here for quite some time
just because you lack the skills to get anything to work right. (http://www.energeticforum.com/john-bedini/6159-r-charge-bedini-solar-power-charger-4.html#post110431)" If Aaron, Bedini, or anyone else on that forum is incapable of stepping you through what's required to get something to work, why wouldn't they offer to do it for you for a fee? They are in business, are they not? I mean, if Ikea only sold plans in books for their furniture, they'd have less than 1% of their business and who'd look incompetent if no could properly assemble their furniture.
Everybody who told you that free energy is complex or magic is probably trying to sell something....It's like neww physic theory about superstrings withing 11 dimension-spacetime explaining everything except why there is 11 dimensions...
Quote from: Ein~+ein on August 19, 2013, 12:55:14 PM
You say 'mostly copy and paste' from the internet? That may be grounds for copyright violation unless permission was granted or the copyright has expired. The copyright holder must also be willing to take them to court. As I'd mentioned in a previous post, there was an attempt to launch a class action suit against them (on another thread here)...if anyone cares to resurrect it.
See what I mean about Aaron discrediting himself better than anyone else could?: "You have caused trouble around here for quite some time just because you lack the skills to get anything to work right. (http://www.energeticforum.com/john-bedini/6159-r-charge-bedini-solar-power-charger-4.html#post110431)" If Aaron, Bedini, or anyone else on that forum is incapable of stepping you through what's required to get something to work, why wouldn't they offer to do it for you for a fee? They are in business, are they not? I mean, if Ikea only sold plans in books for their furniture, they'd have less than 1% of their business and who'd look incompetent if no could properly assemble their furniture.
Yes-tesla and cromrey aswell-over 20 pages of copy/paste from the net on these two. Both pictures ( a couple of examples below) and many pages of there patents.Now i would find it hard to believe that they could have had tesla's permision-for ovious reasons.
If you are new to pulse motors,and are going to build the standard SSG-know that if built the way JB describe's,you have just built the worst possible configuration.If you make it so as the coil end that faces the rotor magnets,is fireing a north field,and the rotor also has the north field's facing out,your soft iron(steel rod) core will become magnetised,and the efficiency of the motor will slowly degrade.
There is two simple fixes for this.
1-reverse the polarity of both the run coil,and trigger coil,so as your motor become's an attraction motor.The coil will then be fireing a south field at the rotor end,and the rotor magnets remain north.This will help stop the core becoming magnetised.
2-Simply turn the magnets around on the rotor,so as the south field faces out,while leaving the coil as is(standard ssg)
Another improvment i have found is-dont rap your two wires on together. First wind the trigger coil on (.4-.5mm wire is best for 12 volts)Dont worry to much about how many turn's,just wind on 4 layers as neat as possable.Then use thread tape,and lay on one layer of thread tape over the trigger coil. Then 8 layer's of .6 or .71mm wire over the top. Make your coil core 3/4 inch by 2 1/2-3 inches long. Use 1/2 inch wide x 3/4 inch long neo magnet's in the rotor.
If using a lot of magnets in the rotor that will be closer than 2 inches together-alternate the fields N/S/N/S. This will insure the transistor switches cleanly,and will run cold.
Mmm-maybe i should write my own book,on how to build a decent machine lol.
@Tinman:
It continually baffles me why anyone would invest time and expense into attempting to build something that defies the known laws of physics merely because someone says you can. As I understand it, it's more than just ignorance or the desire to become rich or famous, it's about the almost-religious belief in suppression conspiracies and aliens as this thread I started suggests (http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/14073-just-me-im-not-seeing-much-evidence-either-suppression-fe.html). There's a Don Smith device thread (http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/4864-donald-smith-devices-too-good-true-272.html) on EnergeticForum with over a million views and nearly 10,000 posts. One would think the conversation would be well into manufacturing or marketing by now, but like virtually every other FE device, it's still stuck in proof of concept stage.
If it was merely about making money I'd borrow money to buy and sell currencies or stocks in flux.
lol @einstein.it baffles you because there is a possibility that they can do exactly that.
Quote from: profitis on August 20, 2013, 04:06:21 PM
lol @einstein.it baffles you because there is a possibility that they can do exactly that.
I'm not following your line of reasoning---if I thought there was a possibility, why would I be baffled?
I remember analyzing the "10 coiler." It was very crudely designed. I got into a debate with a guy named Jeff that bought a 10-coiler and had battery banks and a computerized swapper and a grid-tie inverter, the whole nine yards. He was going to draw energy from the system while the 10-coiler was swapped back and forth between the two banks to "keep the self-charging going."
I told him it would never work and he scowled at me and I scowled back. He couldn't answer my basic questions about the characteristics of his 10-coiler and scowled at me some more.
I lost track or he disappeared or both. However, about a year later he made a posting trying to sell his 10-coiler.
So Jeff bought into the myth, and then spent a lot of his money and time and energy. At one of the Bedini conferences there was even a projected animation of a house with a Bedini motor and a bank swapper powering a home. But of course we all know that if anybody asks the question directly to Bedini or one of his minions then they always say that they never claimed a Bedini motor is a free energy device. Some may remember the episode of the "leaked clip" with a Renaissance solar charger that was allegedly over unity, Bedini himself stated it in the clip, and the story of how that one played out.
So Jeff was a victim, even if he was a willing victim at the start. He spent lots of money and was writing the code for the battery swapper, etc, etc. I asked him to test it manually without the computerized swapper but he wouldn't listen to me. All of his time, money, energy, and thought process lost for no good reason. Poor guy, he really got burned.
Would you buy a used Ferris Wheel motor from Jay Bee? One caveat, you can't live on the equator. lol