In my opinion based on experience here:
Debate is not welcome on this venue. Nor is truth. These things are frowned upon.
If you are a huckster, trickster, or otherwise fraudulent person you are welcome here. And the hot air that comes with it is also welcome.
Truthseekers will be chastized for asking for truth and presenting the hard questions, as well as asking for presenters to back up their presentations with documentation and science, not gobldegook.
And fraudulent persons will be rewarded for their fakery, and given a pat on the back because it cranks up the intrigue.
This is the present state of affairs here.
What has taken place recently is deplorable. Hopefully it will improve in the future.
I feel I should take part in this thread to voice my prime concerns:
1) We dont know anymore about SM's device today then we did 6 months ago...
2) We don't know who Mannix really is or what his intent on this forum is, considering the first few posts and the promise of observing kicks and recieving diagrams, it would appear the relationship has changed drasticly.
3) Why is Mr. Marks so worried about Stefan digging up information? Go and read the posts from before mannix and marks angry retort in the "eye witness accounts" thread.
4) Why don't we have a patent number yet?!?!?! Are not all published patents availible for free online?
5) Many people have invested much time and money in researching this device and thus far not one observable experiment has been suggested. I though the Idea was to find kicks then build a device, but we haven't even observed excess kicks or "hash" yet?
Now I would like to make it very clear that I am not saying anything positive or negitive about the authenticity of Mannix and Marks words, but I am frustrated in the long process and lack of solid information. The information that has been posted is very vague and has not produced any results for any of the overunity members tests.
Not one person or device has confirmed the theories in mannix/mark posts...
If this was anyone else besides Steve Mark, we would have written them off long ago...
My greatest worry is that it has been someone else feeding us misinformation the whole time...
I'm not claiming thats what is happening now, but it is my biggest worry none the less.
One has to wonder if fraudulent presentations are welcome during slack times when traffic is low. Sudden claims of overunity with no backup documentation makes for good headlines.
Well thus far its not much of a debate if no one disagrees...
Where are Mannix and CTGLabs at?
Anyone who thinks things are going smoothly in this project please speak up.
-
Dave
Sorry you took this the wrong way, you said:
"If you want to look at what he has said and say "well, im an expert, why should this create an anomalous effect"then why are you in to free energy research! You have to forget what you have been taught, same as I did. If you want to stick with what you have been programmed to believe, then you will go round in circles for ever more."
You don't know my mind. The typed medium is limited in bandwidth. I never said I was an expert. My ability to think "way outside the box" is what gave me extreme success in life and the accompanying rewards that go to original thinkers. To be an original thinker "beginners mind" is required. To accomplish something new and unique, a beginners mind coupled with strong technical expertise is usually required.
Regarding what "I have been programmed to believe", there are lots of people in the world with no programming whatsoever regarding electronics and physics. You should be handing out baskets of wire, hoping one of them will knit you a free energy coil. Something about a large number of monkeys with typewriters.......Maybe a strong backround tells you where not to waste your time or how not to misinterpret your results.
I have done a huge number of experiments with an open mind, mixing of frequencies, looking for kicks etc. since this began. I did not report the negative results so as not to discourage anyone hoping that maybe one of you guys with a purer mind will find something. I get discouraged seeing people misinterpreting their results as if it was something significant. But I rarely respond so as not to stiffle their enthusiasm and creativity.
"why are you in to free energy research" This is an old saw, something like "if you don't like the country why don't you leave it" in other words to question anything is wrong, we are to believe with the faith of a zealot. I prefer to choose my beliefs carefully.
Getting a compass to spin proves nothing as a compass needle has inertia. A magnetic field can be made to expand and contract in a two pole, four pole configuration and so on. The term in this case "rotating magnetic field" is actually wrong, it is a"alternating magnetic field" or "sequenced magnetic field". The field grows and decays around each coil. I see everyone sequencing their coils, this is not rotation of a field itself. The percieved rotation is illusion is caused by the mass and attendant inertia of of the compass.
Now I'm not saying that a true rotating magnetic field is not possible in fact, I'm hoping it is as it will change the world. I believe that if the Mark device is real, it uses a true rotating magnetic field as its basis of operation (not an alternating or sequenced field). This is the area of research along with others that I have been persueing. In fact I googled "high speed rotating magnetic field" as Lindsay suggested and didn't find anything relevant. Perhaps Lindsay could just supply the link. I promise to be good student and study it carefully.
Why get so upset when anybody questions Lindsay. Is it the fear that he will take his last few secrets and go away?
You should have no such fear because in your own words "You have what you need".
Why does Lindsay keep dropping clues but never a concise experiment that will prove decisively what he is only alluding to. Why has he set himself as the stern teacher not to be questioned. And what's wrong with dating the letters so we can at least know the order they were generated to gain at least a historical perspective. Simple enough request, not asking for "the secret"
When enlisting people for the Manhatten Project, the US goverment assembled strongly technical minds and visionary theoretical physicists. This was not a random out of the hat lottery of US citizens to participate in a project to create something that had never been done before. There was also much debate and strong difference of opinion within the group.
Any group that cannot examine itself becomes a religion, not a democracy. This examination is healthy and along with experimentation will lead to the goal. Those who frown on this as counterproductive can form their religion, complete with mystical beliefs and high priests, a new "cargo cult".
-
Dave , thanks for your reply
You said:
"Steven has said the control circuit which prevents run away has been patented, the collector coils are not. Personally I dont think one will be issued or applied for because UEC probably bought it to protect their own interests as an energy provider. If they patent it all, there is nothing to stop us all looking it up and building it for ourselves and still turning the energy business to ruins is there? So rather than patent it, its better for them to keep it secret?"
Your argument that UEC is not patenting the device because it would give out the secret allowing everyone to build the device and turn the energy business to ruins is an interesting one. We are talking about many many trillions of dollars here. Don't you think people like SM and Mannix would have been rubbed out a long time ago? Rather they are allowed to slowly release info over the internet with clues how to make a device that would cause powers with incredible wealth to be out of business? This is why I insisted on dating the letters. This part of it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Those videos would have been ripped off Google in a heartbeat. The discrediting and disinformation would be way more severe. What is going on here is more difficult to understand than meets the eye. I don't know the answer, perhaps somebody is pumping it up in the interest of selling a book in the future complete with schematic diagrams and missing clues. There are lots of such books out there because none of the devices work. Did they work at one time, such as the Hendershot device? Perhaps, and maybe Mr. Hendershot was made an offer he couldn't refuse to obfuscate the information. We cannot know. Besides experimentation, I'm merely trying to be a good Sherlock Holmes and get some real perspective on this. Perhaps SM and Mannix were also made an offer they couldn't refuse. Perhaps the search for kicks and rotating fields is disinformation they are providing in co-operating with the powers to save their own lives. How can we know the truth unless we ask the hard questions.
Best of luck in your research, Sparkman
Quote from: ctglabs on November 11, 2006, 10:23:13 AM
Hi,
I know I quoted you, but my comments were directed at everyone, not you directly!
I understand why you have not posted your negative test results. I personally view it the other way round. If you show your results, then you show other people what you have done and prevent others from going down the same wrong avenues, thus they find their way to other avenues and we cover more ground without duplication and waisted time.
I do not protect Lindsay because I fear the loss information because I as I said I feel I already have the info, now its up to me to find the correct mix, duplicate the valve tests etc. Infact should it not be the others who should be, as you all want more information? Push too hard and you scare away the one thing you want? The fact is SM has given what he is going to give, unless you duplicate the kick with the correct frequencys, nothing more will come from him so people may as well give up asking. Work with what he has given you, or dont! You will excuse any comment I have about people not working on the thing because if they dont post sucesses or failures, then we are not to know are we? You end up looking like a lurker who just waits for the answer.
I take your point regarding the rotating field, it can be a mis-use of the word. Instead we can say the TPU causes a compass to rotate and this could be due to an alternating field or otherwise. We cannot tell which, other than SM does confirm there is a rotating field, but we can take this either way I guess.
In anycase, I am very busy with testing and design, I am not going to chase after whitness or anything else who cannot tell you how it works.
Like I said, I am not here to argue or debate, I am here to find the answer, we have gotten what we are going to get. Now its a case of we work with what Steven has given us and find the key or we give up.
Steven has said the control circuit which prevents run away has been patented, the collector coils are not. Personally I dont think one will be issued or applied for because UEC probably bought it to protect their own interests as an energy provider. If they patent it all, there is nothing to stop us all looking it up and building it for ourselves and still turning the energy business to ruins is there? So rather than patent it, its better for them to keep it secret?
Regards,
Dave.
I am presently working on a magnetic motor but am fascinated in the Steven Marks unit and have been following this thread with great interest and enthusiasm. I was very disappointed to see some members remove their posts. I can understand if they want to go elsewhere, but they are hurting new members of the thread by removing any information that was there.
Now, to have one come back and say this?
So, I guess it is OK for a handfull to share all information until they are either close or fed up and then remove all of the information so that everyone can start from day 1.
It's just not right!
MrMag
-
-
Quote from: ctglabs on November 11, 2006, 12:34:23 PM
Sparkman,
I see your comment. If SM or Mannix were to be "rubbed out" now, it would only proove the devices work. If they are left alone, it allows the increase of doubt to circulate? Having said that, people like Paul Brown and others were not so lucky.
Dave.
So Dave, SM and Mannix are then left alone to continue to post the real clues to tens of thousands of people ? How will they (the powers that be) then stop all these people who have saved the clues and info on their hard drives and continue to repost it ? Fact is we don't even know if any of these people that are being "left alone" are who they say they are. I wonder when the book will be coming out and when the "Australian Deal" to produce these devices will be made. Do you really believe that a small Australian lab will co-partner with UEC to produce these devices shortly as alluded to in the latest letters? And the US government (and the powers that be) will allow it?
I believe the SM devices may be real and the videos were made to document them,period Past that, I believe some people who had third generation copies of the videos decided to release them in order to generate a lot of interest in this device. Whether their motives were pure or not is yet to be decided. People who release any information to the public should bear the burden of proof of the authenticity of that information, otherwise it is all speculation (like this post!).
Caveat Emptor
-
Dave,
I hope I didn't offend you in any way. If I did, I apologize. I can understand your desire to get on with the work. Best of luck in your work, may you have success, you certainly deserve it.
I encourage everyone to continue the work with vigor and imagination. This thread is only here to allow a safe haven for the raising of legitimate questions in the hopes they may be answered. Freedomfuel has another similar topic "some questions that need to be asked".
Good Luck All.
-
Sparkman and MrMAG are right, things are not what they seem...
To Dave(ctglabs),
to replicate the SM concept will not be so difficult,
but to resolve his discovered problem,the overheating after an half hour work,
this will never become,under this conditions,a usefull concept !!!
Pardon,
but the Lambertson WIN-cell work,40 years of research,
shall give you a "time window" !
S
dL
p.s.:Kucera((ex-)Yugoslawia),DE2644927. Monopolar Magnet
Martinez(Spain),DE2249016,page 2/3
can give more details about "earth/generator-relationship" !
Yes, I would let Dave be right now otherwise he may just get snide and look down his nose at you poor simple minded fools that are no longer worthy of his presence...
Dave .. Fu*& Off
And if anyone wants to read my initial opinions on this whole project ... they are still on the forum as I am not of the mind to remove them at a whim. As some petulant small minded people have.
If your in then your in .. if you aint .. then leave well enough alone.
Not once did any one of these guys who left show any credible results.
Now they just want their little egos rubbed a little, I say enough is enough, I originally kicked the tyres on this idea and got told that I shouldnt offend poor little stevie or mr fragile mannix so that we dont lose any further information these great wonders of the world might bestow on us. I say we have the videos .. we get the gist of whats involved.. there are many other examples out there that show similar concepts, with a lot more accompanying documentation and information.
Personally I call on Mannix (SM) whoever he is to ante up .. or bugger off.
I am actually convinced now that the person(s) supposedly representing these 2 identities are frauds and are just in it for some sick personal gratification. As I originally indicated.
This won't stop me endeavouring to create my own ideas, or attempt replications of others. But if someone wants to come along and play the hint game again I will not step back from calling a bullshitter a bullshitter ... its the australian way isnt it mr mannix.
regards,
Dean
Hi Dean,
this had been my problem-more/less an half year before -
in a controversely discussion with Mr.Mannix !
But our "Moderator" wished a "cold war situation" ,a tactical-strategical "peace" !
S
dL
Hmm. Still having that problem with overheating(?!). Would have thought SM would have licked that by now if it can be done. Eddy currents and transients burned up many a device back in the old days.
Wouldn't it be a kick in the teeth if some high school kids (secondary school) solved this problem?
I'l have to go back and check, did that "circuit" that alledgedly was patented, solve the overheating problem? If not - it's like catching a lighting bolt - not worth a damn, but makes for a nice show!
I have a great idea. Since we all know Steven Marks personally, and he discussed his finding with us in great detail prior to the confidentiality agreement, We should really log into their secret builder only forums and tell them more about the kicks, heat, and Q issues that Steve discussed with us.
Well maybe not!
Dean & Grumpy, love your posts!
-A message for the posters who are being less then diplomatic twards other users, stop acting like a bunch of kids. I thought this threads intent was for the stating our grevences and unanswered questions, but it has degraded in to pure shit talking. Just stop now, its entirely counter productive to a solution. To review this thread is not for name calling or ill manorisms for those or us who forgot where they where posting at. Each user is valuable and unique in knowlege, but the convesations I am observing daily are uncalled for in any thread.
-I must agree though, removing ones posts is really a poor way to treat those of us interested in studying it further. Its a damn shame, I hope Stefan can work his *best* admin magic with his attempted user restore. Why would you keep your information private? Why not share your findings and data? This world doesn't have a lot of time and this is a great example of how much needed technology gets lost in the shuffle.
-Newbs need to know there place. No offense, its about seniority and some of you are insulting what may be highly valued sources. Once again I must point out that each users actions here will effect our research. Stop it.
Just my two cents, but enough is enough already.
*.*
-
Quote from: ctglabs on November 13, 2006, 06:21:01 AM
I dont think my missing posts will effect anyone, even new comers. It just allows them to read other more important posts quicker rather than my brain dead ramblings.
Dave your input here was useful and it contained links and patents and pictures and diagrams that were useful too, it was wrong to take it all back over some silly people acting in a silly manner. (it is what they do after all) I do hope you'll at least let us non electronics engineers know how you and your crew do in your research. The most important thing to all of us is that this technology is made available to the consumers. If you feel this was the best way to accomplish that, so be it. Good luck to you in your future research, and please let us know how your builds go.
Dave's forum is only one of many groups interested in understanding and building the SM device. For whatever reasons, little progress was made here in replicating the device but that's not to say that progress won't be made. It's up to the people here. Anything of value in the deleted posts is still available; people quoted important points or saved the information in some other form. There really wasn't that much of value anyway. Many individuals are members of several different groups and no group is making progress that any interested person in any group doesn't know about.
rm -r *.*
if you are not thinking and sharing your thoughts then whats the point ....
i'm sure thats what all the great minds said as they conveyed their thoughts to those that were more equipped to build their visions ...
not laying claims to any great visions here .. but you may get the gist ....
stop being so god damn smug and totter off will ya ...
Deleted
deleted
With SM's mention of supersonic flight - I am leaning more towards "cavitation" and "shock waves" - both can be created electromagneticly.
Magnetrons cavitate.
"soundwaves leaving the aircraft pile up on each other, similar to a tailback on a road, and a shock wave forms, the pressure increases, and then spreads out sideways. Because of this amplification effect, a shock wave is very intense, more like an explosion when you hear it (not coincidentally, since explosions create shock waves).
Particles accelerated beyond the speed of light in a refractive medium (where the speed of light is less than that in a vacuum, such as water) create visible x, a phenomenon known as Cherenkov radiation - which may be outside visible spectrum.
More later...
Why does everything need to be so complicated? There always has to be some fantastical process or mystery particle involved, Why can't it be simple?
Here's a thought get a sim like vizimag, draw a toroid in an external field(north=top to south=bottom),what do you see? You see the external field lines(Earth field?) bend too each side of the toroid because the flux flows easier through iron(yes iron). So the external field lines bending through and around the circle look just like the flowlines of air travelling around a circle? sound familiar?
And if on the left side of the toroid(West) a coil produced a magnetic field moving upwards(North) what would happen? All of the external field would be diverted to the right side(East) plus the coil field. When the coil field turned off the external field plus the imarted field would try to equalize,overshooting back to the left side of the toroid(resonance).
All within the physics we know, no unprovable fanasy theories needed.
it is actually pretty simple. No fancy particles are discussed.
Orthogonal magnetic fields can be independent. Induction is not considered to occur between orthogonal coils. You can have to orthogonal coils on the same core and excite each coil independently - this does increase the amount of flux that the material will accept before saturation. While all of this is interesting and useful, the fields are conservative and you will not achieve OU.
Very much information is in the videos and the answers will be found if you look for them.
For example, the magnetic field of the earth is not the simple bar magnet that everyone thinks of.
I recommed that you Google up the work of "Albert Roy Davis and Walter Rawls" with magnets, electromagnets, and the Earth's magnetic field.
Much interesting information such as this:
QuoteMagnetism HAS A FREQUENCY. It also has motion. The rate of vibration depends on the size, length, width, and power of the magnet. Solid state composition magnets, such as metal, iron and steel, are CONSTANT in their rate of vibration DEPENDING on their structure. An electromagnet, however, may present a number of different types of vibrations.
QuoteHowever, a coil wound a certain number of turns has a different frequency from a fixed metal or composition magnet. As the coil heats, the resistance to the flow of current INCREASES. Here we have a SLOW DROP in magnetic lines, or cables, of force to a RISE IN FORCE, depending upon the wire and core materials used for construction. Therefore, the vibrations supplied by the electromagnet are NOT AS CONSTANT as those from the metal or composition magnet.
QuoteThey claim that magnetic poles have completely opposite effects, including spin direction. (Just like Walter Russell showed.)
See below for images from their book "Magneitsm and it's effect on living systems":
I am officially convinced this device is a hoax, too many things just dont make sense.
******************************************************************
Heres the real deal Mr Mark and UEC: This device is either going to make it to market or
not... If it is coming to market, GET IT DONE! Why dick arround for over a decade?
If you are planning on never releasing this technology, why bother telling us anything?
If people are reading your words to ensure you don't give us the answer we'll never get
any useful information. If you have never recieved any money for the device why not give
its secrets away? GET YOUR STORY STRAIGHT!
******************************************************************
Mannix if no one has been contacting you and you have just been posting your own
silly theories be ashamed of yourself! If someone is/was contacting you, how do you know
it is SM and not Brian Collins (or who ever is "spreading lies"). Mr Marks if you are reading
this, your inconsistant murky incomplete discriptions and analogys have only led to
strife, mistrust, failure, and lot of useless expensive torroid units. Please be more clear!
No progress made here, your words have led to skeptism and disgust in our fellow man.
I'm no longer going to even bother reading these threads as the smell of bullshit and
humbug has made them remarkably painful to read and have even reduced my beliefs
in the possibilities of overunity itself. This one device if legit, has the potential to save the human
race... Lets not tell anyone how it works though... Instead we'll tease them with tid bits of
common knowlege that may or may not have any significant relation to the device.
So stupid...
I'm sorry if my opinions are too blunt, but this whole thing has been nothing but a headache...
NOT EVEN ONE STEP CLOSER TO REPLICATION... NO NEW INFO!!!
The only thing we got out of the deal was thousands of posts filled with hot air...
Its been a great 8 months, thanks for filling my head with useless shit...
I'm done with it.
~Dingus
(Sorry for my anger, but I'm sure my points make sense to all who read them)
To all,
Ignore the rants of the frustrated. They are just the background noise.
By the way, Tesla and SM are correct - you can have signals going both directions and at different frequencies.
There are also two paths between the poles of two magnets - intertwined, but separate.
Quote from: Dingus Mungus on November 22, 2006, 07:18:29 PM
******************************************************************
Heres the real deal Mr Mark and UEC: This device is either going to make it to market or
not... If it is coming to market, GET IT DONE! Why dick arround for over a decade?
If you are planning on never releasing this technology, why bother telling us anything?
If people are reading your words to ensure you don't give us the answer we'll never get
any useful information. If you have never recieved any money for the device why not give
its secrets away? GET YOUR STORY STRAIGHT!
******************************************************************
Yeah ignore the obvious unaswered questions...
Sorry if my rant is discouraging.
Hey Dingus make no mistake there are people working in the background, if it can be done someone will do it. I only hope they have the common sense to disclose it, I would.
Quote from: allcanadian on November 22, 2006, 09:16:25 PM
Hey Dingus make no mistake there are people working in the background, if it can be done someone will do it. I only hope they have the common sense to disclose it, I would.
I know there are dozens of members working hard at this project.
That is what is killing me over here. Every week I read more and more hoping to hear of their progress, and every week I find that its the same theoretical discussions taking place but no progress made. I don't have any gruff with the builders at all, its the entities that hide behind self declared knowlege of the working order of the device. Both of those people have worked me in to a nerdy rage. :P
I don't buy their story any more.
All I can say for sure is that neither Mannix or the person he claims is SM were involved with any of the videos we've seen of the device. I can say this for sure because: if they were involved in any of those demos, the device would have been in a box under a sheet in another room. :D
I'm going to continue to read these threads everyday even though it kills me to do so just to see where these two persons actually lead the group. I want to know just what they're trying to help us understand and what the group can accomplish after they understand what it is Mannix has been preaching for the last 6-8 months.
We've lost valuable members and are currently discrediting the device publicly...
I hope what ever it is you guys are rewarded with in the end is worth it. :-\
Another unanswered question: What exactly is it Mannix is trying to help us understand?
The tipical bullshit response: How the device operates... ::)
Some things must be experienced to be understood.
If you are handed the plans - you build the device but you do not understand how it works - you can not tune it - you can not make adjustments - you can not make a larger or smaller one.
If you walk to path of the experimentalist, like SM, Tesla, and Marinov - then you will understand.
To move forward, you need a frequency source - can be audio (dual channel would be nice - one for each direction) - and you need a "phase shifter" - build one.
EDIT: EMDevices would be a big help with the circuits.
Hey Grumpy
Do you need to drop a bowling ball on your foot to understand it's all bad and really hurts? No
If the plans are complete, the fundamental process outlined, and operating parameters explained most people could build a working machine over time. As well a trouble-shooting guide would be handy, in which case the " you have to build it and experiment" theory holds no water. Do you have to build and experiment with your personal computer in order to use it? A computer is infinately more complex than the SM machine.
No one seems to want to ask the right nor the relevant questions, anyone saying everyone else could never understand this is probably delusional. They essentially declare themselves a god among men, for what? Building an simple electromechanical machine anyone could build given proper instruction. The stench of vanity surrounds quite a few of these inventors.
Deleted
Hey freedomfuel
In your post you quoted steven as saying-
"it was not MY TECHNOLOGY. I had no rights concerning it at all. It is under the control of the federal government for the benefit of the people of the United States".
If this is the case the US government has this and SM knows all about it.
Do you think if SM took this technology to the media, with working models the governments would have the balls to say it is top secret and cannot be used, and take him to court? The media and general public would overthrow and flog any government stupid enough to even mention such a thing. Can you imagine a senator saying such a thing? He would be living in a cardboard box faster than you can say"What just happened". It is common knowledge that should this OU technology ever go truly public , NO one would dare say anything to stop it, It would be political suicide.
This is a classical paradox- Man cannot speak out because he is threatened-But should the man ever speak out the persons making the threat can never follow through.
Hello Dingus Mungus,
I think you have a good gut-feeling.
Look here what member PESE send me today : It is exactly the modus operandi this person SM is doing here, creating confusion etc.
Read carefully and do not spend your valuable time with scams created by swindlers and dobious lawyers.
http://www.padrak.com/ine/SMARK.html (http://www.padrak.com/ine/SMARK.html)
Kator
Kator,
Raymond Dale
is an disinformation agent.
And I wonder if it is him ?
Drug Hunt Lab Break-In
THREE men wanted to steal drugs when they broke into the government forensic laboratories and attempted to burn it down, a court was told yesterday. Scott Raymond Dale entered the witness stand to deny he and two others went to the laboratories to destroy evidence on behalf of another man. Under cross-examination by prosecutor Linda Mason, Mr Dale said he was not "going down" for a bomb. "You think someone who uses amphetamines would go and blow it up?" he said. "Blow it up my arm, that's the only place I'm going to blow it." Mr Dale, Trevor Stuart Fox and Bernard Graham Hall have all pleaded not guilty to being involved in an attempt to blow up the forensic laboratories at New Town in March 2000. Mr Dale, 25, of Illawarra Rd, Glenorchy, said that in 2000 he had been addicted to amphetamines and that Mr Fox had been his supplier. He said Mr Fox had told him, Wayne Howlett and Joseph Tonner that he knew where seized drugs were kept and that if they stole them, they would be shared 50-50. The court heard Mr Dale, Mr Howlett and Mr Tonner went to the laboratories with a torch and two cans of petrol. Mr Dale said the petrol was to be used to burn the building down to cover any fingerprints they might leave. He denied knowing a bomb was inside the torch. (continued)
Source: The Advertiser/Gavin Lower/7 December 2004/ http://www.theadvertiser.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,11612818%255E421,00.html
This post deleted by request.
Like Marinnov said (actually, I think it was a friend of his), review the work of Nikola Tesla - it's all in there - everything.
rapid collapse of field - cavitation - shock wave - energy
Tao was standing at the door - did he open it?
Post deleted
To allcanadian and your Reply#44:
Partaanen(Europositron) 20 Mill. investment and
R.O.I. 2000 Mill. exspectation + 8% royalties !
Perendev-power,500 Mill. demand
Awad -water to hydrogen compressor- 1 Mill. investment demand
for exspected 100 Mill. R.O.I.!
You can calculate: for each invested 1$ = 100$ R.O.I. exspectation !
More: the M.P.I. and the Potomac power system financial growth
for the next years,in theory !
Sincerely
de Lanca
p.s.: Can you now understand their view or behaviour ?
To All
I have been asked in a private message from someone to remove the quoted comments from SM in a proir message (#19 in "eyewitness accounts" on Nov 9 2006) as it "may create doubts among some people". I will in fact respect this request as it was done in a gentlemanly manner. If I get feedback from forum members that I should for some reason not delete these comments due to the fact that rather than raising doubts, they verify convictions, then I will honor the majority. PM's also welcome.
Sparkman
The current level of conspiracy among our members is too funny. Everything from censoreship to the deletion of member accounts and all their information. This is a soap opera not a fact finding mission. Unless we switch gears all we'll find is dead ends.
???
I guess another one bites the dust. Supresion is a bitch and we got duped in my opinion. Any progress this forum was once making on this device has been swiftly undone with internal member politics...
this post deleted.
moved from sm main threadQuote from: fcpeace17 on November 25, 2006, 06:29:42 PM
Steve Marks did not need anyone feeding him how to build this TPU so technically neither do you!
How do you know that for sure? Are the patents in his name? Was he not working with a R&D team or partnership of some sort?
Quote from: fcpeace17 on November 25, 2006, 06:29:42 PM
What Mannix and Steve have provided; many lengthy videos, cutting open of the TPU,
Actually SM provided these not Mannix, and they were ways of showing the basic structure of a TPU and have led to these discussions and experiments. All of the video evidence is great and is the only thing that keeps me interested in this at all.
Quote from: fcpeace17 on November 25, 2006, 06:29:42 PM
personal discussions and conversations, risking their pensions to help humanity....
This was the work of Mannix all of which is unconfirmable, and if a pension was risked it was by Mannix and not our members. I'm only asking for authentication of some sort, and people are acting like thats too much to ask for. I can take a picture of myself holding a piece of paper thats says "overunity.com" and not risk my pension, is he not able to post any new evidence of the device existance.
Anything that proved it was and is Steve Mark who is reading and responding to these statements would quiet me and any other skeptics in here. All we need to know is that this is not disinformation being perparated by an imposter of some sort.
Quote from: fcpeace17 on November 25, 2006, 06:29:42 PM
they have done more than enough, now it is our turn. Evan
Not exaxtly no humanity has been helped yet. If it is indeed the real inventor of this device trying to help us understand something, he is only creating a possibility of helping humanity and it is dependant on one of us monkeys replicating the device from scratch with no real data on components at all. So if creating a less the one percent chance of the device being understood to the point of replication is "doing enough for mankind" we are all doomed and greatly explains why overunity is not a reality by now.
Just my 2 cents
Hydrogen update for Mramos:
ResinRat and myself are in PM communication currently and he's been working with multible cells. He is working on finding a chemical or redundant cell balance as far as I know. Since it has already been proven the anode is reducing itself as part of cell operation those who replicate must find the balance point where the hydrogen is only produced as quickly as the anode is reduced.
You should consider replication of an experiment from the patent if you have a place to safely work with hydrogen already. Experiment 13 is very very interesting but there are many other equally as important experiments listed. Drop me a letter and I can help you obtain some components for cheap. Also was it you who had the bublers "failing"? (AKA blown to bits)
Deleted
I want to retort but I don't know where to begin.
If everyone in the whole world had access to schematics of how to build a TPU why would anyone want to go to war? Each person would quickly become fully off the grid independant. If you're experiencing a drought of clean water you can purify water with heat from the free energy. Nuclear winter got you down, live under ground and use FE to grow crops with artificial light. Waste piled up high, Vaporize it with FE. Really though I can not fore see anyone but the corupt governments using FE for evil. Just like now... What would it take for your whole block to get armed to the teeth and invade the next street over? Not a chance in hell of it happening right? Well governments have been doing exactly that since the birth of civilization and FE won't change them one way or another. The reason governments don't want this technology to escape is it means no one will pay taxes, no one will fight there wars, no one will care about their plans if they don't need anything from the government. Real independance is what they are trying to avoid, it has nothing to do with money or politics. Mayber this will make sense to others maybe not, but the point is gang members with TPU guns will not mob the streets and the governments of the world have better weapons already. No matter what you tell me a TPU can not cause the same devastation as an atomic bomb.
Cop outs and excuses are just that.
Sharing a simple schematic will not end the world or start a war.
Side Note:
If you're disappointed in the cynicism and skepticism, just imagine how you'll feel in ten years when this device is still no where to be found and its inventor has died and took its secrets to the grave.
I bet you'll need a stiffer word then disappointed by then.
Post deleted
Ya
Why would the man from atomic energy say anything else. After all, if Marks device truly works, this poor man from atomic energy would be out of a job.
Tim
Guys,
Not to say the TPU is fact or fiction but what makes you think he was from the Atomic Energy Commission?
Haven't you ever heard of good Cop - Bad Cop? The supposed AEC guy was playing the good cop and trying to gather a little more intelligence on what he was upto wouldn't you think?
Also, If he really did develop the TPU and the Feds grabbed it prior they may want to know if he has developed something else in the mean time.
Carl
Just got to vent, I've been quiet for a while. The Pennsylvania group hasn't managed better than 94 percent. That's more than a stones throw from overunity. We haven't has a self running coil at all. The bright news is the other side of the country is having luck in another project. We need a post set aside for frequencies. One: a list of frequencies that don't work. I got a feeling many of us have failed on the same ones. Well have a good day guys.
Where is the PA group? I'm a local too.................Loki
Loki,
Except for our science guys in Pittsburg, we're spread out accross the state. Their is three of us in Erie county, two in Vanango, 2 in Crawford, 1 in Union city (don't know which county he's in) and 3 in Warren Co. That,s Northwestern Pa. and the other three corners are tracted by other people. Just join any group in your area. There is people working on this all over the state, Energy is needed badly all around the world. North Korea was promised help years ago and we didn't keep our promises and now they are desperate enough to try extortion to get us to play through so to speak. They don't hate people or want to mass murder they just simply need energy. At last check there are about 180 small groups around Pa. Hot spots Williamport, Greensburg, Pittsburg and Philadephia. Most groups are tech grads, just ask at a local good tech school near you to plug in.
I'm not talking about a High school tech. Any school that offers at least an Associates degree that's in your area. We need more science guys bad we've got E-engineers but we lost the only Physicist we had. He went to Norfork for a better paying job. We stay small to many people to much party not enough work done. Best bet find a group of 10 people or less, very close to home, helps keep the costs down.
Ok debate this question for me guys, does a standing static charge have a magnetic componet? I'd like to hear your views on this really.
Voltage == e-field == tiny magnetic field arround wire...
Whats to debate?
A non-moving electric charge would not be considered to have a magnetic moment. The term "non-moving" is a matter perspective, ,as evrything can be considered moving when compared to something else. The whole universe is moving around.
A moving electron has been shown to have an intrinsic magnetic moment. If you have moving electrons and hence a current (i.e. charge carriers) they generate a magnetic field.
From Hyperphysics:
QuoteBut how does the electron obtain a magnetic moment if it has zero angular momentum and therefore produces no "current loop" to produce a magnetic moment? In 1925, Samuel A. Goudsmit and George E. Uhlenbeck postulated that the electron had an intrinsic angular momentum, independent of its orbital characteristics. In classical terms, a ball of charge could have a magnetic moment if it were spinning such that the charge at the edges produced an effective current loop. This kind of reasoning led to the use of "electron spin" to describe the intrinsic angular momentum.
Add this to some of the things that Edward Leedskalnin wrote, and a current loop (or closed magnetic loop) gets a little interesting.
No wire, a static charge in the atmosphere with no current. No potential, difference causing electron flow. Is there a magnetic componet?
I was refering to a static charge.
So, no. Why would it need to have a magnetic moment?
The electric field (potential) can exist without it's magnetic field partner. (Ref. a paper by F. Mende)
"does a standing static charge have a magnetic componet?"
If it carries a charge it carries voltage.
I'm not sure we all agree on what voltage means...
As I understand it voltage is potential difference between two points which causes current to flow. Static field voltage works the same way and doesn't really require a wire, just a secondary point to measure the electrical potential difference or voltage. If you meassure a electrical potential difference that means current can flow and when it does a magnetic field will be present.
If I'm mistaken please explain.
Current will not flow with just a difference in potential. You must create a condition where two potentials move in opposite directions. (i.e. both moving or one moving and the other fixed.)
A gradient will not create current even though there is a difference in potential between two points within the gradient. For example, there is a potential difference of about 200 volts between your feet and your head (a gradient) - yet no current flowing between the two.
It take two to tango.
I see no reason for a stationary charge to have a magnetic component.
This has become an intresting thread!
As it is titled "debate," I will freely offer my own view as well. LOL!
On static charge
Does a static charge have a magnetic field? LOL! The question is impossible to find in nature, but really answers itself. If it were possible to have a static charge, would there be a magnetic field present?
I would offer the perspective at the atomic level where all is found to be near lightspeed spinning motions, and no such a charge can exist without motion. Therefore at the level of the atoms parts the answer is that no static charge is ever present without a magnetic field, or a canceled magnetic field.
The magnetic field in matter normally stays confined to the matter except in the magnetic elements nickle, iron, and cobalt, where excess magnetic fields normally radiate external to the atoms, or in the AG metals where current is flowing through the electron shell, Copper Aluminum ...
Thus in matter we see the magnetic field being cancelled within, and often the electric field may reach out further, and the apearance of static charge.
Observing the model of Wilbert Smith, the primary field is motion, or lightspeed spin as it first apears, then built on this the second quadrature force is electric and the third is magnetism. None can exist without the ones that underly it, so in theory we can have three levels of forces. Light, or torsion waves, then comes electric potiential, and last magnetism, a fully three dimensional force requiring a volume, normally a donut shape to manifest a distance cubed force.
Torsion and light propagate in the prime dimension as a field force and are stripped of any EM.
Normal electronics deals with electrons and valence orbits, or a shortage of electrons, and the flows of electrons between such atoms missing only one electron. The cold electricity is probably a Proton flow of photons between proton shells without the need for particles to move between atoms. These forces are 2 dimensional forces, or distance squared forces and do form a gradient across space between charged objects. However inside the atoms they are not static so the magnetic field is in fact always present just not necessarily radiant to a great degree until current begins to flow and electrons jump free of orbits. The magnetic field becomes a function of the current flow in wire, but the actual magnetic field originates in the particles spin motions, and the orientation that either cancels the magnetic field or does not cancel it.
The magnitude of the electric force should become obvious when we consider the strongest electric fields are being emitted from the loss or addition of a single electron in many atoms. Considering the number of electrons still having Proton mates in these atoms to neutralize them from radiating charge, the atom contains a tremendous charge within it.
The entire world of matter is held together by magnetism, and electric forces, and without these they would become light. Magnetism is ever present everywhere in either the scalar cancelling state or the active state at a level we can hardly fathom.
These are the E in Einstiens equation E = MC ^2 the root forces, and inside the atoms these forces are present in the three forms. Tempic, Electric , and magnetic. All the other forces are a result of these three interacting. Tempic being the one yet to be accepted by science as a real medium of propagation, but the one that perfectly explains Tesla's longitudinal waves, as well as torsion and light.
Electric force is a combination of the tempic and electric fields, where the electric field is in a state of changing modulation or gradient. It propagates along its electric vector carrying a tempic charge. Gravity is a combination of the same two forces where the tempic field is in a state of modulation or gradient and it carries an electric field along with it. Thus both drop with a distance squared function.
Light only responds to the tempic field and thus gravity having a tempic field gradient will bend light but EM having only an electric gradient will not.
On the Steven Mark device
On the Steven Mark device all I can say is the world is not yet ready to be handed something it has not comprehended as of yet. Groups like this one will change this, and it is not about what Steven did or didn't do, it's about what the larger consciousness of mankind is willing to accept and how long it takes to get beyond our present state of national economic function, the energy brokers, and shift the focus to mankind as one consciousness. Like the monkeys on seperate islands, when one person reaches comprehension then it will spread along the inner planes and sooner or later all will become knowers of the truth that has become present amongst us.
Recent work
Has anyone here yet identified the NMR pulses inside the kick pulses that pop up between coils at 90 degrees? I am guessing they are around 5 Mhz.
http://magnetism.fateback.com/Overunity.htm (http://magnetism.fateback.com/Overunity.htm)
Dave L
@ Dave,L
Thank you! That was a very refreshing read.
Moab.M
btentzer wrote:
Quote
He PM'd me stating that his search for OU was over. He solicited MY help. Not the other way around. ALSO, let me say, That being "OPEN MINDED" does NOT mean believing "anything".
Well, I was wrong on the solicitation. Apologies.
However, why did he seek you out in the first place? Was he looking for guidance, help? The language barrier?
Whatever the reason, you accepted the task, and that comes with a great deal of responsibility. In fact any time anyone posts a disclosure, they should do so responsibly...especially if the disclosure includes a claim of overunity.
Bruce, you are intelligent, there is no doubt, evidenced by your developments with raising shrimp. This is definately your domain.
Although I commend you for being so generous with your time and effort in accepting the challenge brnbade offered you, and with all due respect, you were taking a large step outside of your domain, and should have graciously referred brnbade to someone with more FE research and electronics experience. There are at least 4 candidates I can think of at the moment.
Based on the way things did play out with brnbade's disclosure, I can say with confidence that this person would have advised brnbade not to post anything yet, and would then solidify many things by asking for clarification and diagrams. Keep in mind that final drawings are not what I mean...just the basics.
Once all the bare minimums were in place, the disclosure post could then have gone forward...properly. This would have saved a lot of cafuffle in the process.
In the case with brnbade, none of these steps were taken, and the results speak for themselves.
I'm not placing blame, I'm just trying to illustrate that we need to be aware of the consequences of not having all our ducks in place before posting disclosures. And if we decide to help someone else in doing so, we have the same responsibility to ensure that it is done correctly, in a scientific-like manner. Not Phd level stuff, again, just the basics to start.
Cheers,
Darren
PS. I'll make a brief suggestion in a later post.
EDIT: Here is the post I promised...
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2654.msg38296.html#msg38296
I wihtdraw my statement about magnetic moment - everything has a magnetic moment due to it's inherent spin - everything - spin is torsion and that is where it all begins.
Just wanted to give opinions on conspiracy, and pressure from a invisible group.
As you know tesla was on the road to free energy, and was met with a evil force which would do anything to destroy the idea of free energy. This evil force lies within the energy sector, governments and elitest groups with an endless supply of money. Steven Mark's couldn't release the information if he wanted too. If I have it right, he used a companies equipment, and resources. Its really not even his idea to own. I would expect these forces are doing all they can to keep him from saying anything, and I bet he's aching to tell. If you developed this device wouldn't you want to shout it out to the world? Perhaps.., unless you were met by a force with no limitation, and convincing means.
I've heard some interviews with so called MIB type military personel. They have a proceduce in terms of dealing with problems. First comes the disinformation. If that don't work, then comes money. If that don't work, then come the threats, no only you, but against the people you know like family. If that don't work which is rare, then comes the "smudging."
Lets all assume Steven Mark is what he is, and has the knowledge to build these "TPU's." Wouldn't he pose a major threat to the monetary systems of the entire planet. I'm sure if he can do whats alledged in those video's, hes been paid a visit by the ole MIB's. If thats true they are monitoring this forum, have tapped his house, and have probably tapped many of you :D. I'm sure if sm's story is true, a intensive disinformation campain is under way, and false information of all sorts will be flooding in. Doesn't mean we should give up and let them win. Even if it doesn't work, we will still have gained knowledge in some form or another.
Its really sad actually. I see these inventor build something great, and the first thing which comes to their mind is money. I don't know if they realise that if they freely released their device, millions around the world would build it, and they would be famous.
I'd like to try and settle the debate once and for all, regarding what should be called a TPU or TPU-like, and what shouldn't.
Two of the clearest facts we know about the TPU and how it operates are:
1) The TPU utilizes kicks as part of the energizing/conversion process. The "kicks" being as they are described by SM.
2) The TPU utilizes a rotating magnetic field in its operation.
The rotating magnetic field is somewhat straight forward (relatively speaking) with everyone...right? The "kicks" point however, requires some clarification.
Even though "kick" at this point in time is not succinctly defined, it does not matter for our purpose here. The important point regarding the kick, is that it occurs at the first moment of electron flow...the moment of connection to the source. This is as described in several instances by SM.
What happens at the moment of disconnection is of no relevance according to Steven. He mentions nothing of that. So this fact categorically eliminates bemf (cemf) spikes as part of the process in Mark's TPU.
So, based on the above logic, the following consitutes the criteria for strictly categorizing a candidate device as being TPU-like, or not TPU-like:
1) If the candidate device does not utilize or exhibit a rotating magnetic field, it IS NOT TPU-like.
2) If the candidate device does not extract or convert power or energy at the first instant of electron flow, it IS NOT TPU-like. Note: bemf occurs when the source is disconnected.
3) If the candidate device utilizes both a rotating magnetic field AND the kick energy, then it IS TPU-like.
Now by "plugging in" the characteristics of a device into this criteria cruncher, one should see quite clearly, that neither the ECD, nor the Cook coil qualify as being TPU-like...strictly speaking. Some have stated that the ECD exhibits a RMF, but to date, that statement has not been converted to a demonstration. Until it IS demonstrated, the ECD does not meet any of the above criteria.
If we do not use this criteria to decide what is a TPU and what isn't, then it simply comes down to what we want to be included in TPU-land, and what we don't.
The ECD is certainly a spinoff of the TPU research, so it's debatable if it should fall under TPU-land or not. It still fails criteria 1) and 2). However, the Cook coil has little resemblance to the TPU at all, and does not appear to be even a spinoff of it's research.
If the decision comes down to a matter of opinion, then we'll be debating forever which devices belong under the "TPU" topic, and which don't.
Darren
I would just like to point out that your requirements on a device to be "TPU like" don't include being made of copper, being wound like a TPU, putting out power on a seperate coils isolated circuit... Or any of those things that really define it. It's obvious that your definitions intent was biased and solely to discredit others. My point is the original TPU footage is what inspired this angle of research therefore it IS related, and that regarding this research as irrelevant because someone who CLAIMS to in contact with Steve Mark says so, is the most insane thing you could do in this perticular field of research.
Don't get me wrong we are getting results that do match to "the clues", but what proof do you have that those words even came from SM? How about just a picture of SM and his messenger standing together? Or a pic of SM in a contemporary situation; aka holding a recent magazine or in front of a new building. Something to confirm that SM has even contacted the person in the last 10 years. I doubt we'll see anything with that much merrit, but some proof, any at all???
Now please feel free to flame the skeptic who's spends time/$ on this kind of research.
~Dingus Mungus
Hello all,
@Darren,
so, you say the ECD is NOT a TPU????
Otto
Quote from: Dingus Mungus on July 05, 2007, 01:01:16 AM
I would just like to point out that your requirements on a device to be "TPU like" don't include being made of copper, being wound like a TPU, putting out power on a seperate coils isolated circuit... Or any of those things that really define it.
DM, I'm afraid
almost every single point you made is incorrect.
The reason I chose only those two criteria, is because 1) they are undisputable, and 2) they are unique enough in combination to easily identify a candidate device as passing or failing the test. The point of the exercise was to be able to clearly separate the real TPU's from the spinoffs. No other characteristics or device parameters are necessary to do that if the 2 I identified above are used. It's quite simple, if the candidate device doesn't pass 1) or 2), then it doesn't pass...period.
Putting in more parameters such as copper coils, secondary outputs etc, would be meaningless, because these are common to about 3 million other inventions out there. The two parameters I chose above are very unique, especially in combination, and as such would probably eliminate 99% of potential candidates.
QuoteIt's obvious that your definitions intent was biased and solely to discredit others. My point is the original TPU footage is what inspired this angle of research therefore it IS related, and that regarding this research as irrelevant because someone who CLAIMS to in contact with Steve Mark says so, is the most insane thing you could do in this perticular field of research.
Stating that my only intent was to discredit others is ridiculous. I've simply created a logical test setup, and either the input parameters cause a fail or a pass. No bias whatsoever.
I agree with you that the videos inspired many. However, where would we be without SM's letters? How would you know any details at all about it from only the videos? Be thankful man that Steven felt comfortable enough with Lindsay to share the clues that he did.
And btw, Lindsay has no influence on me whatsoever regarding which research is TPU related, and which is not. In case you hadn't noticed, Lindsay and I are in opposition over the ECD.
Quote
Don't get me wrong we are getting results that do match to "the clues"...
I'd like to see or discuss those matches. Indulge me.
Quote
...but what proof do you have that those words even came from SM? How about just a picture of SM and his messenger standing together? Or a pic of SM in a contemporary situation; aka holding a recent magazine or in front of a new building. Something to confirm that SM has even contacted the person in the last 10 years. I doubt we'll see anything with that much merrit, but some proof, any at all???
Where did you get all
that crap from? It's ironic that you ask for proof that Lindsay has ever been in contact with SM, yet you don't ask for proof whenever someone chimes in with a claim of overunity with nothing to back it up.
Where do you think those letters came from? Lindsay made them up perhaps? If that is the case, then he's done a heck of a job. I've been studying the TPU for over a year, and I have had many exchanges with Lindsay, and I can assure you, he didn't compose those letters.
Quote
Now please feel free to flame the skeptic who's spends time/$ on this kind of research.
~Dingus Mungus
I sincerely commend...and thank you for your contribution. You're not the only one however, I can assure you of that.
Cheers,
Darren
Quote from: otto on July 05, 2007, 01:10:22 AM
Hello all,
@Darren,
so, you say the ECD is NOT a TPU????
Otto
Otto,
I ask you this...What
is a TPU? OR more importantly since we don't know exactly what the TPU is...
What do we know that makes the TPU truly unique?I am saying, that if we compare the ECD to the TPU using the two criteria I have identified above, those being the RMF, and the kick, and consider the fact that no evidence has surfaced that demonstrates them, it would appear the ECD does not pass the test, and is therefore not a TPU.
Is it really that important to you? If you discover overunity by some other means, why is that not a great accomplishment? If it doesn't work like a TPU yet produces excess energy, what does it matter?
You started working toward a TPU and it developed into somethng else. That's perfectly ok. If you have evidence you can show of a RMF and a kick that is produced at first electron flow, then why not show it?
One thing seems certain; the chances of any one of us hitting on an exact duplicate of SM's devices, are slim, but not impossible.
Darren
Happy Days!!
I'm not going to spend hours going through threads collecting scope shots, but positive results have been claimed to have been seen by half a dozen members. They're all achieving these effects via entirely different devices and designs. I'm asking for proof and I'm winding coils of my own in the mean time.
I was not saying they are observing overunity power production, but combined frequencies producing kicks. I hope we are in agreence on this very simple point. I can also assume we all agree that a HV pulse is pretty much required if we're looking for excess power. I don't see where the spikes position in the scope shot is relevent though. This is the first problem I have with your assursions. What makes a HV feedback at the moment of contact better or more usefull than a HV pulse at disconnection? I don't know considering its energizing a isolated coil at 90 degree to itself...
Now you stated that your two requirements are undisbutable yet here we are in a thread called a place for debate. Do you see the latent problem in that assumption? Either your infallible or it is automaticly debatable by its location at the least.
I'd ask how "almost every single point I made is incorrect", but I figure anyone who disagrees with you on this entirely unfinnished unknown project is wrong too.
I mean really... Who the hell get this upset over two threads being in a heading???
Especially when its NOT OFF TOPIC! Their using the same HF pulses to see kicks! That sounds just as relevent as any of the other 200 plus page threads in this section.
~Dingus
bob.rennips:
Interesting observations on the purpose of NDA's. I would agree the legal implications of NDA precludes any topical discussions to third parties within a usually 2 or 3 year period. Beyond that you are not legally bound(?). I believe this is true.
Since there aren't any specific patents found(?) on the TPU implementations based on videos shown of SM's technology and the 1 year ruling of demo. before patent filing, I can only conclude that whatever happened, whether it's unpatentable technology, discord with that lawyer, conspiracy (Fed.'s) theory or simply the TPU cannot be controlled for safe operations, the person who disclosed these puzzles (SM?) is no fool. The disclosed stuff is just too technical for most people even to comprehend, let alone try to duplicate. Even if it involved a middle man or any other permuttaions, you have to ask yourself, "what is the ultimate purpose?"
I don't think we're ever going to know until the real SM comes clean and unveil his purpose and identity. In the meantime, this journey is indeed exciting!
Regards
chrisC
Quote from: chrisC on July 05, 2007, 03:35:13 AM
bob.rennips:
Interesting observations on the purpose of NDA's. I would agree the legal implications of NDA precludes any topical discussions to third parties within a usually 2 or 3 year period. Beyond that you are not legally bound(?). I believe this is true...
If you don't negotiate an NDA you sign then time limit will be worded in terms of 'forever'. This can be disguised in wording to the effect of - any action that may be detrimental to our ongoing ability to exercise our intellectual rights during the development, commercialisation and realisation of XYZ.
But if there was no NDA or the NDA had 'expired' then no need for a middle man.
I agree the journey is more important. I believe the journey is worthwhile because I believe in an 'Ether' which therefore allows for the possibility of such devices.
Bob Boyce has told us everything we need to build something overunity including coil arrangements. Earl's circuit will allow fine tuning and synchronisation of the phase.
All info. is here.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2637.0.html
I'm taking time to reflect on safety precautions.
Good grief!
It's becoming more and more apparent that my efforts here are wasted, and I'm not even sure why I bother. I'm always trying to help, and all I get is kicked in the teeth.
It's interesting to see now everyone else coming out of the woodwork and asking brnbade for the missing information, as I was doing from the very beginning, and being berated for it. The response from folks was: "ALL that is necessary is already there".
Better late than never I guess.
I'll be submitting my final 2 contributions, then I'm outa' here.
Cheers,
Darren
@ZPE
Be serious here...
You're getting kicked in the teeth because 2 threads (ecd and cook) are going to be under TPU heading? How does that affect you at all??? Seriously! Please explain its detremental effects. I'd love to understand how we're hurting you so badly by disagreeing with you. How old are you that you pack up your toys and go home when things don't go your way? Now stop acting like a child and threatening to quit because someone won't listen to you. Can't you understand that NO ONE here knows what they're talking about when it comes to this device? Do you have an operating TPU? Know anyone with one? I didn't think so.
No one wants you to leave as your research here is just as valuable as everyone elses, but you must realize no one here with the exception of Stefan can control what others research. So just because it doesn't match you discription doesn't mean we must quit. So in closing don't quit like this, I have far too much peer respect for you to do something that shitty.
~Dingus Mungus
DM,
You seemed to have gone off on a tangent, and I'm not sure how that happened. I guess my posts were not clear enough to get my points across, so my fault.
I don't really care at all where the topics are placed. I guess you missed it, but there was a debate going on in the various TPU threads regarding this, I did not start it. Actually, I was only trying to end the debate for good, so we could all get on with things. So, it didn't affect me per se, I was just trying to help resolve it for all of us. Again, just trying to help out, not to stir it up.
My reasons for wanting to leave for a while, you evidently do not understand, and I wouldn't expect you to. Just please don't assume you know them ok?
I've had numerous insights over the last year or so, and only now do I feel I know the TPU well enough to seriously begin experimenting. I came back here recently optimistic that I could foster some objective thinking and approaches, and perhaps share my insights with the group as a whole, but what I have seen and experienced since then leaves me little desire to do so.
All due respect to folks here, but I don't feel most here are ready for serious TPU research, and I take my research quite seriously. That's why I won't share it at this time. In lieu of this however, I have been trying to instill a little more practicality in the way folks approach their work, and their disclosures. Alas, those attempts have been met with great resistance, so again, I guess the folks here aren't ready for that either it would seem.
I assure you my intentions are well placed. Always have been, and will be in the future. Too bad folks see otherwise.
So, rather than spending more hours of my time at the pc meticulously composing my posts and unselfishly helping out, when it evidently goes unheeded, I'll stop neglecting my own work and begin investing my time more wisely.
If you call that acting like a child, then so be it.
Darren
You know Darren you've twisted my words for the last time, do whatever the hell you want. Sorry if my attempt at asking you NOT TO LEAVE, wasn't enough to show you that we care about your "serious research" or you somehow perverted in your mind to be some sort of insult. I just don't give a shit how you feel about other peoples research and its relationship to your DEFINITIONS. Simply put you say "no its not" and someone else say "yes it is", and Stefan made the call. Thats what this is all about! If not you still didn't explain your reasons for leaving, only that us other members have ruined it over the past year for you somehow... Great explanation, should really clear things up around here.
Anyway stay or leave its not going to stop people from working on ECD or Cook coils, so great, we're down another useful member and nothing else here changes. Congrats. You point still not understood and this little tiny pointless unfounded arguement slows things down in this area of study even more.
No shit you're frustrated. I can't blame you, I'm frustrated too.
~Dingus Mungus
P.S. The way I was raised: It is being a child to blame others for your decisions and actions.
I can sense the stress. The uprisings abound in cycles just like the waves from a TPU, ECD, coil, ring, whatever.
We need more monkeys or there will never be enough words to go around that make sense.
I watched the study of drunk monkeys on youtube. The statistics are amazing. They are percentile correct on likes, dislikes, preferences. Probably even in the fecal war category of 'flinging poo'. LOL.
I would rather be 'Pissed off than shit on, eh'?
It is never over and no one can leave. Just try...
--giantkiller. This APB just released: Be cool and get things done.
Here is maybe a very dumb question but for me it will help in seeing the future.
OK, Otto and Ronotte are testing using three mosfet/driver combos. What I would like to know is where in SM's devices do you think he had such components, the heat sinks, the power supply to the mosfets, the heat generated, the noise, etc. Or can the mosfets/driver combos be made much much smaller in the future. But then how was it possible in 1997. Or is this question taboo? Or we are all right to agree Otto's device is not a TPU but a new power generator called the ECD?
I am also thinking that to build a TPU, maybe it is best to start building a fake one, same look, same performance but with any type of internal power source exciting any form of coil system possible to achieve the end result, that is to light or half light one, two or more bulbs for the same time as on the demos, that could be officially determined. Once this is achieved, then work backwards to work out the autonomous features. You can put a limit on the internal battery to output ratio or only have the limitation of weight and practical size/shape and see what type of ideas can be hatched. I am sure there are some others here that would be interested in taking up such a challenge and it would be helpful to the builders. Maybe start a new craze. Maybe even launch a new contest. Who can build the best working replica, regardless of power source? Maybe even outsource it to China. They are so good at copying things fast and cheap.
WOW, I just started going through this thread. Who cares what falls under what category?
What I see in all of this is that SM and Otto both have toroidal power units since they are both toroid shaped. Pretty simple. The Cooks coil may not be a TPU, but the theory behind it may be the same.
None of us know exactly how SM made his coil work, so how can we set criteria based on the unknown? BEMF, Rotational magnetic field ... all theories, by us. Even Marks mentions that "he thinks it works this way".
There are so many directions right now that it would be very confusing throwing all the research into the same thread. It is a lot easier following threads with SM, Otto, Cook.... and the replications.
Tim
With greastest regards to the others you mentioned we have gotten results at the far end of the realization spectrum.
I will portray in order...
Jason's or Otto's 50 turn coil produces kicks. It is a small device for test. No emminent danger but there are kicks.
The GK4 produces kicks of greater magnitude, RE of greater magnitude, high RF and up the scale of greater magnitude. Great emminent danger. Why? Greater production with sloppy control and more complex configuration.
Otto/Roberto ECD coil contains signal and RE control to harness the operation of power control. Emminent danger exists.
Bob.rennips BEMF application control circuit attempts to gain another level of greater control. It is a simulation from what I gather. But this step is timely.
The GK4 which is a copy of the Telsa's 382282. http://www.pat2pdf.org/patents/pat382282.pdf times 3. Each layer/ring/collector is pulsed in parallel by each segment/control coil. It is using the BEMF to enhance the bucking effect.
Onto that add Otto's Mobius configuration. This proved the mobius connection was neccessary for this type of configuration.
Now I notice the 390721 patent is coming back around. What works always travels though time.
The sloppy iron windings actually create wings or sharp bends in the 30awg which point out to the feedback. This makes a hap-hazard RE connection because the edges do not align consistantly with the feedback. Plus the feedback has no corresponding edge for reception. The mag field is just perturbed randomly. So sad but great test.
Now the wing edge reappears in the ECD in a smartly defined single edge. I am impressed.
So what I see is a suggestion being given to the groups. The suggestion being actuated on and a proof being made by someone in the receiving group. That proof then appears somewhere in the future for the next step to create the next level of a proof suggestion platform. All with no great fanfare because we don't seem to catch on that quick until later on.
There are alot of electrical tests being made. I see more results from my tests when I approach the beast from a visual and wave or field generation aspect. Electrically I see alot of tests that can't prove or gain the attention of an advanced step. But that is not to discredit anyone or anything they have done. It just proves how Tesla's mysteries have held so strong until now.
But the predominant factors still stand the test of time. And that is smack the copper faster that is can respond/conduct, Kicks, BEMF, Radiant energy, Magnetic fields.
--giantkiller. TPUs: the breakfast of champions.
Quote from: MrMag on July 09, 2007, 12:14:08 PM
WOW, I just started going through this thread. Who cares what falls under what category?
What I see in all of this is that SM and Otto both have toroidal power units since they are both toroid shaped. Pretty simple. The Cooks coil may not be a TPU, but the theory behind it may be the same.
None of us know exactly how SM made his coil work, so how can we set criteria based on the unknown? BEMF, Rotational magnetic field ... all theories, by us. Even Marks mentions that "he thinks it works this way".
There are so many directions right now that it would be very confusing throwing all the research into the same thread. It is a lot easier following threads with SM, Otto, Cook.... and the replications.
Tim
Tim,
I would encourage you to read the compilation, or re-read it again if you have already.
The rotating field is not a theory proposed by anyone. It is clearly stated in SM's material, BY SM himself.
Darren
Hi All,
I haven't been following this thread, nor have I read through it.
I have time for cooperation and collaboration, but no time for debate.
Who cares whether
- a gasoline car,
- a diesel automobile, or
- an electric horseless carriage
are the same, similar or different? I don't.
As the old proverb says: it doesn't matter what color the cat, as long as it catches mice.
Earl's theorum: Anyone debating where what belongs has too much time on their hands and should be thinking or building more while posting less.
Sorry if I so frankly and brutally call an apple an apple.
The environment is degrading so rapidly we don't have time to p!ss against the wind.
Get your asses moving on a solution guys, let's pull together as a group with team spirit and stop bickering.
Daren, you now have the ability to make a new topic with your experiments in read-only mode. Show us your stuff when you are ready. Nobody can give you sh!t, you are in the driver's seat in your read-only forum topic. You are logical and intelligent, so I am sure that you have something to show that will be well-tested and documented. Go for it.
I am gone from this topic, too busy to debate.
Regards, Earl
OL
Cam,
I have to say I agree with most everything you've said. Many are my own sentiments as well.
@ Earl, all,
First I want to make it clear that I have and had no desire to debate where projects should be placed in this forum....OK?
I saw a debate ensuing in the other threads, and I wanted to end it by laying some proposed groundrules, and letting folks decide for themselves. I was and am not pushing one way or the other....I really do not care.
Those who have been on the TPU quest as long as I have, and there are a few, know which research is on track, and which isn't, but that does not matter. Research is research....as long as it is for the good of all....it is all good.
So guys please cease sticking me with this debate stuff, I am not interested....thank you.
Also, I am aware of the elite mode we now have, and I may use it when ready. I will also get off my ass when I am ready. Some dive right in, and that is ok. Some wish to contemplate and understand first, (like tao and myself for example), and that is ok too. They are both valid approaches....alright?!
I might add, that while I am "sitting on my proverbial ass", I am trying to help others along with their projects and research. Is that so wrong?
Bottom line is, no one ought to dictate that one approach or the other is invalid.
And in closing... if and when I do post my work, you can bet "your ass", it will be as per the manner I have been encouraging here as of late.
Cheers, :))
Darren
Glad we still have your assistance.
Get it? Ass-istance... LOL!
Anywho...
Thanks for continuing your efforts here.
~Dingus Mungus
Sorry guys I posted in the wrong thread.
Quote from: Dingus Mungus on July 10, 2007, 02:21:48 AM
Glad we still have your assistance.
Get it? Ass-istance... LOL!
Anywho...
Thanks for continuing your efforts here.
~Dingus Mungus
And now your baiting him by indirectly insinuating he's an ass, and there for his assistance is... I dunno what... useless? And the thanks was for what purpose after that lead-in? So you could, I dunno back peddle and say "Aw dude, I was just joshin ya, grow up", or "What's da matter, your mommy cinch on your diapers too tight this morning or something?"
Seems the "take my ball and go home," is not the only way to be childish here, I guess "go for the throat", or "insult your opponents as much as possible" are adult behaviors, and accepted, tried and true debate skills. Who knew? I always thought it was called ad-hominem, and was the most abused logical fallacy in debate. Hmm, learn something new every day.
Hey stefan when are you going to install the ignore feature?
http://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=185
@Darren, I agree the ECD has some interesting things that go on that don't seem to go on in the TPU, and some of the things you would think would be classical signs of true energy conversion do not seem to be present.
However to play devil's advocate, SM did say that the otto stuff seems to be doing SM style conversions.
What I don't get is, where is all the scary? Seems pretty tame to me. All I have read seemed to indicate that once conversion was hit, watch the hell out. It seemed almost inevitable that once you found it you would KNOW.. There would be no QUESTION what was happening, if you were lucky enough not to burn the crap out of yourself, have the device runaway, or worse.
I'm still cautiously optimistic though.
Regards,
Rich
Quote from: z_p_e on July 09, 2007, 02:31:38 PM
I might add, that while I am "sitting on my proverbial ass", I am trying to help others along with their projects and research. Is that so wrong?
Bottom line is, no one ought to dictate that one approach or the other is invalid.
And in closing... if and when I do post my work, you can bet "your ass", it will be as per the manner I have been encouraging here as of late.
Glad we still have your assistance.
Get it? Ass-istance... LOL!"
Anywho...
Thanks for continuing your efforts here.@Gn0s
Are you trying to start another fight or are you just totally unfamiliar with puns?
instigator.
There was no offence taken Dingus...at least not from that post ;)
I knew what you meant.
Rich,...thanks, but let it slide...it was innocent enough.
Regarding the "scaryness"? Yeah I agree.
If I may take a stab at what SM meant regarding Otto's work, is that it was a good starting place. He's using pulses. Beyond that, I'm not so sure.
I really believe there is much much more to the TPU than that.
Read some of Bob Shannon's stuff on RMF's. If anything, Otto might be stumbling onto some rotating fields via vectoring RF fields from his "antennas", but in order for them to work properly, they need to be 90 degrees from one another. He doesn't have that configuration right now.
Regards,
Darren
@ ZPE
I'm glad you didn't take any offense, but maybe I should further explain myself. The whole reason for that post was to thank you for not leaving, without conceding my original points. Debate and tension will always ride high here... The important thing is that we continue working as a team on the same goals and aspirations. I believe we're all on the same page most of the time, but just know I don't hold grudges or passive aggressively poke people. If I have a problem with something I announce it as bluntly as needed. Simply put I'm overly passionate about this line of research, and sometimes it shows itself in different ways. So please don't ever feel I have a problem with you, your research, or any other forum regular. I don't!
Well Mannix might be an execption, but I'm sure some members understand why I feel that way...
~Dingus Mungus
Seriously even if I was petty enough to hate some other researchers guts, I wouldn't want them to leave... We need all the help we can get if we're ever going to crack this puzzle. Noob side line skeptics excluded.
Quote from: Dingus Mungus on July 17, 2007, 05:04:45 PM
Quote from: z_p_e on July 09, 2007, 02:31:38 PM
I might add, that while I am "sitting on my proverbial ass", I am trying to help others along with their projects and research. Is that so wrong?
Bottom line is, no one ought to dictate that one approach or the other is invalid.
And in closing... if and when I do post my work, you can bet "your ass", it will be as per the manner I have been encouraging here as of late.
Glad we still have your assistance.
Get it? Ass-istance... LOL!"
Anywho...
Thanks for continuing your efforts here.
@Gn0s
Are you trying to start another fight or are you just totally unfamiliar with puns?
instigator.
Well, I'm not unfamilar with puns. I just don't think insulting someone in the form of a pun is any better than saying it directly. It accomplishes the same thing.
If calling for adult behavior is instigation, then so be it. I'm an instigator.
On the other hand It's good to see it's calmed down a bit.
Quote from: gn0stik on July 17, 2007, 06:26:35 PM
Well, I'm not unfamilar with puns. I just don't think insulting someone in the form of a pun is any better than saying it directly. It accomplishes the same thing.
Ok... point is it wasn't an insult. Not even a little bit. It was a pun or a "play on words". He made refrence to "ass" like 3 times in the previous post. It's pretty cut and dry what my intention was, and I've even restated twice now for your benifit.
Remember how you didn't "get it" when I thanked him for his efforts.
Quote from: gn0stik on July 17, 2007, 03:07:50 PM
And now your baiting him by indirectly insinuating he's an ass, and there for his assistance is... I dunno what... useless? And the thanks was for what purpose after that lead-in? So you could, I dunno back peddle and say "Aw dude, I was just joshin ya, grow up", or "What's da matter, your mommy cinch on your diapers too tight this morning or something?"
Obviously not what I did or said.... Right?
So yeah... Not an insult... OK?
So are you done re-instigating this already finnished confrontation yet?
Because really this is a pointless confrontation with no merrit.
Even Darren has posted he knew my comment was not a barb at him.
I don't spend my time here to argue with the smartest people I know.But just like this post, when I do have something to say, I'll say it clearly.
~Dingus Mungus
Alright, no problem, done deal, my bad, finito.
Thank you Gn0s,
I'm very glad to be done with it!
We were going no where.
There just seems to be no end to some of the crap that gets posted on this forum...oh well, c'est la vie.
Ok Grump or Dingus, I'm ready for my spanking :P
btw Grump, despite our differences in the past, I have to say that you are one of only a few that have been posting things with some relevance to the TPU imho.
There are no spark gaps in the TPU, but it may not be too far off. And there have been a few other little gems as well along the way, but no one else notices I guess. Just my opinion and perception.
Thanks ZPE
Just thought I'd let you all know (if anyone cares) that I won't be posting after Dec 31 2007.
Suppose enough is enough.
Cheers and Merry Christmas.
Darren
Quote from: z_p_e on December 24, 2007, 06:21:29 PM
Just thought I'd let you all know (if anyone cares) that I won't be posting after Dec 31 2007.
Suppose enough is enough.
Cheers and Merry Christmas.
Darren
Leaving so soon?
Darren, I do hope you change your mind and continue to get involved with discussions here because I feel you bring a desire to find ways to provide means for free energy. You shouldn't let what others say bother you to the point of leaving and or giving up.
I watched your last videos you posted and I see you came across a disappointment and I hope you don?t give up. I sent you a message asking if you had thought of pressurizing the cell instead of using a vacuum. I think it may be worth trying and it may be a way to supply fuel injection systems with the pressure they require to just be able to use the hydrogen for the main source of fuel.
I personally sent a email a while back asking that you stop the HHO and get back to your magnet motor but you have since came a long way and I would like to see you finish what you have so much time in to.
Quote from: z_p_e on December 19, 2007, 11:07:15 PM
There just seems to be no end to some of the crap that gets posted on this forum...oh well, c'est la vie.
Ok Grump or Dingus, I'm ready for my spanking :P
btw Grump, despite our differences in the past, I have to say that you are one of only a few that have been posting things with some relevance to the TPU imho.
There are no spark gaps in the TPU, but it may not be too far off. And there have been a few other little gems as well along the way, but no one else notices I guess. Just my opinion and perception.
Z_P_E You cant quit now, You've just discovered OU. The neverending river of BS that flows in these pages. Now you need to help us turn that into free energy.
Dang!,, Every time we get close a key member quits. Must be some kind of evil conspiracy! >:(
But really. I think you'll be checking back fefore 02.01.08. :)
Happy Hummbug everyone!
moab,
I won't be checking in here at all.
Rather than continually hitting the wall with my input, I'll step aside and let those better qualified take up the slack.
If anything worthwhile comes to true fruition, I'm sure I will hear about it. At the moment however, I see nothing different, just more of the same old same old.
Other than this, I'm not sure what else you were trying to say. What is the significance of that date?
Quote from: z_p_e on December 25, 2007, 02:11:48 AM
moab,
I won't be checking in here at all.
Rather than continually hitting the wall with my input, I'll step aside and let those better qualified take up the slack.
If anything worthwhile comes to true fruition, I'm sure I will hear about it. At the moment however, I see nothing different, just more of the same old same old.
Other than this, I'm not sure what else you were trying to say. What is the significance of that date?
Yeah, this forum has gotten a little stagnant. Isn't there some sort of party happening on 02.01.2008 ?
Well,
That about wraps things up for me folks. I believe I made my last post, and on one of my most favorite topics.... Inductive Kickback! :D
I wish you all the best in 2008, have a good and safe New Year's.
I won't be posting or reading, but I can still be reached via PM.
Cheers,
Darren
Darren, you know New Year resolutions are meant to be broken, we'll see you on Wednesday. LOL :D
@z_p_e
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
I thought you were joking about this.
Now what?
Shit. What a bummer.
I can only say thank you and thank you and thank you again for putting up with this shmuck of an EEer wannabee. I learned alot and hope to one day show you that all your efforts have not gone in vain.
Geez, what a damn bummer, but enjoy whatever you do.
Here's one for z_p_e......
For he's a jolly good fello............................................
Quote from: sparkman on November 10, 2006, 01:47:53 PM
In my opinion based on experience here:
Debate is not welcome on this venue. Nor is truth. These things are frowned upon.
If you are a huckster, trickster, or otherwise fraudulent person you are welcome here. And the hot air that comes with it is also welcome.
Truthseekers will be chastized for asking for truth and presenting the hard questions, as well as asking for presenters to back up their presentations with documentation and science, not gobldegook.
And fraudulent persons will be rewarded for their fakery, and given a pat on the back because it cranks up the intrigue.
This is the present state of affairs here.
What has taken place recently is deplorable. Hopefully it will improve in the future.
I must comment on this, as it is a quite natural process for a begining if we see it as such. I am dismayed to see any and all good minds leaving this site, especially those willing to share their
perceptions freely. There have been a great many brilliant observations made here by so many to date. We owe everyone a debt who has taken valuable time to both
educate, and
experiment in this effort.
You might wonder why a scientist would be stating a message of spiritual nature on a site like this one. It is direct result of working with scalar coils. I have observed these devices to accelerate personal development if used even at very low power levels. It was recognized a very long time ago the connection between these coils and our own emotions. This group is now involved in experimenting with such devices that have ability to open us and effect us on a deeper level of reality, a level we have been unaware of. Go slowly and observe yourself. Certain configs can energize life force and others can drain you. Self observation is important constantly. The configurations can bring up painfull buried emotions however, so expect them and be ready for self development. We see experimenters sometimes quickly dissapear after only a few trails with little or no explinations. Recognician of our emotional nature may be part of the reason.
This has been my "percpetion" over the past 4 years, the following are my own perceptions at present.
1st comment, we become what we choose by our own words. As humans we can
self program both ourselves and a group with a goal. Recognician of our own self programming ability is a begining step. This is observed only by us anylizing what issues from our own lips, each one, over time. Read your own post over before hitting the post button and look at yourself first, it reflects where you are now at. Learning is process of "error and alteration" and the process is sacred for mans development. Extend freedom to all where they are at now, and know that perception of reality is fluid and changing for us all.
2nd comment, if we all choose the same vision then we find unity of purpose for a time.
3rd comment, everyone is in a state of learning, and no one sees all the
perceptions of reality. We need to accept others perceptions and test the information in the seeking of the knowledge.
4th comment, the
knowledge is on trail not the people. No one no matter how uninformed deserves to be treated with disrespect or judged personally, as a human of inherent worth and dignity. We are not drawn here to judge one another but to participate in the seeking of higher understanding, not yet grasped by mankind as a whole. We may choose to detatch the people from the knowledge and progress will be much faster on a personal level. On the personal level it is alright to be wrong in your perception and then change as we learn more. If we do not become attached to the outcome personally then we are saved much trauma over time and the fliud
shift rate increases. When you see you have changed your views three times a week, without noticible emotional pain involved, you know you are starting to master this concept. You will get many more chances to do this as life rolls on.
5th comment, something has drawn us here together for a greater purpose.
6th comment, time will prove the knowledge, we do not need to expose fradulant people, but allow all to change in thier time frame. Every person is a part of mankind, we all move together in consciousness. Take everyone at thier word and see if it works for yourself? Watch how the group consciousness evolves over time as it sincerely considers all perceptions. Do not involve your self worth in the groups perception of what you have offered, allow time to prove the knowledge, and release what is in error.
7th comment, extend freedom of though to everyone, I know this can create much verbage and many posts but I see this group is starting to self organize and start threads to preserve the
meat in seperate sections. The most progress has always come from the think tanks that permit a free flow of creative thoughts, feelings, and observations. The mouse is a good example, having originated in a think tank that Zerox set up. While Zerox did not appreciate this concept we all now have mice on our desks!
8th comment, when someone sees something that clicks and shares it, this creates a synergy and others will see something they have missed.
We can advance faster as one group sharing "perceptions." I have tried to offer my work as one
perception rather then the concrete facts of science, I do not seek to defend my percpetions to anyone, they are mine, and subject to change as I progress in mind or clarity. This frees me of my own EGO perception of self.
9th and most important comment to me, allow others to be stuck where they are, as long as they desire to be. Change is a self choice and not always free of personal pain.
The future of any group is to either draw together in purpose over time, or to split up and go other directions. Each individual has free will, to this extent, and is free to take the knowledge they have mastered. Troublemakers must be removed when it becomes obvious their goal is one of dissintegration of the work and the goals of the group, only after repeated violations. This is the moderators job, to keep the group moving in a free spirit of discovery, a safe place to verbalize the inner nudges and inspirations. Let the moderators perform this task, and seek only to let go and anylize your own emotional state, and recovery from failures. Expect them, there will be many failures both group and personal if advancement is to be made.
Everyone has total freedom to perform experiments of their own choosing in their own time frame, and should never be burdened with personal guilt or feel controlled in direction of exploration!
The price of gas is now $3.50 a gallon where I live. This planet needs a new direction based on a greater power of mental clarity, not on repeated failure to recognize and accept our own present emotional nature. Emotions are not evil or bad and 90 percent of our progress hinges on us recognizing this and personally embracing them, and picking up tools to deal with them and not let them control our actions.
If our goal is to disprove others work, rather then seek expermentation to achieve a goal, we will waste much time and create personal trauma.
We can protect ourselves on the emotional development side, while allowing the goals to manifest, by not assigning attachment to the outcomes or worrying as to who discovered what and who was right or who was wrong, or who is trying to scam us, as that is a personal issue.
As humans, out of all we try, and all we do, only that which works will outlive us.
Thanks,
Dave L
@ dave
now those are some verry powerful words
as you can see in the new year comes new dirrection
and i most certianally do not think of my self as a master but only as a beginer
as we all are
ist
Quoteand i most certianally do not think of my self as a master but only as a beginer
as we all are
I am a highly trained Child at play LOL :D :D
8)
Well I'll be damned..........killer post Libra.............I've managed to use up a ton of copper wire.....fortunately it is reusable for the most part................I'm still lurking around...........mostly working on a hurricane in a can.......Happy New Year all. May we all get that much closer this year and freely share.........................Loki 8)
To one man gibberish, to another...his siren song.
@ everyone, and no one.