Let's take a short moment, and (please) forget EVERYTHING you've been told about testatika, just for a moment.
The Principle Experiment, who's principle was never stated, is this : rather than stuffing extra electrons into the capacitors in order to create electric potential, electrons are REMOVED from the capaitor plate(s). This is done by creating a multi-plate capacitor, each plate getting smaller in size. The smallest plate has the highest voltage per cm^3, and it ionizes the air around it. This smallest plate is separated from the capacitor "stack" and is the "wheel spokes" on the big machines, or the "plexiglass swivel" in the published experiment.
Electrons are pushed into this ionized environment by spinning the top (smallest) capacitor plates; the electrons will spin off into the air because they have separate mass and momentum from the capacitor plates; electron momentum is conserved by discarding electrons from the plates while they spin.
As the voltage dipole grows between outermost and innermost capacitor plates, current flow is available between the center plates and the environment, without destroying the original dipole that holds the voltage constant. As the load demand increases, testatika pumps more ions from it's capacitors into the air, to compensate.
I have replicated this principle experiment, with results in the range of Methernita's claims (one to two hundred volts DC of "cold" electricity, with the external load's impedance determining amperage). I will not share pictures of the replication setup (my hard work is MY hard work), but i will describe it verbally to anyone interested.
This is the basis of "cold" electricity ; instead of free electrons trying to escape from an overloaded capacitor, the capacitor is "starved" for electrons, and draws them back in from the environment when it's wires are attached to a load; this is why a motor attached to a "cold energy" source will get frosty when it stalls ... it is needing more electrons than the environment (not the capacitor!) can supply, to satisy the power-starved capacitor's "craving".
Also explained is the "fresh air" around a working testatika ; it's because of the negative ions being pumped out of the capacitors into the air around the testatika.
The magnets are not the "electron cascade" people assume they are ; they are used in a way described by Edward Leedskalnin in his "perpetual motion" circuit, to amass power (and for QED "spin" seperation of ions) ; search the net on Leedskalnin AND magnetic current for a detailed description of this.
There are more details regarding coupling the testatika to the air around it, than I have time to type out, so I will look forward future posts and forum questions / comments.
thanks
You said:
I will not share pictures of the replication setup
(my hard work is MY hard work),
but i will describe it verbally to anyone interested.
Thanx for share it.
I'm interested in. Please describe it.
Icarus
@Lycanthropist
interesting ideas,
butI don?t understand, how connecting a load will drive in free electrons from
the environment ?
Where are these electrons coming in ?
Via the load ?
The load is just connected between the output terminals, so it just "shorts out"
the existing voltage there...
Please explain more.
I still think, Paul Baumann just uses excited Beta decay in
his lightly radiactive mountain crystals which
are lying inside some of the backside caps.
He just pulses onto them the High Voltage pulses of the
HV disc generator and gets bigger energy pulses back,
which he rectifies in his bigger caps.
But Lycanthropist,
maybe you did invent something like an "electrical heat pump"
and justcatch free electrons from the air and make them to use in
your device with less input ?
Many thanks in advance.
Regards, Stefan.
Hi,
I think that in all these machines like Moray radiant energy, Testatika, Tesla and else there are few principles that we can pull out to light.
There are:
1-Voltage source (at least as a starter)
2-Oscillation/r?sonance
3-Apparent differential negative resistor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_resistance)
4-Ionisation/breaking the charge balance (heat pump effect analogy)
5-Collection/extraction/matching/transformation
The voltage source is present in all of them either by atmospheric (Moray, Tesla) or by electrostatic generator (Testatika)
All of them shows an oscillator and the most efficients a LC resonant circuit
To keep the oscillator going, a negative resistor element must be present. All circuit shows such an element (spark gap, ion valve) It is my own believe that Moray valve, which Moray invented and put in is radiant energy device was a kind of tunnel diode or something similar. The biggest role of a negative resistor is to counteract the damping effect of the equivalent resistive part of the LC resonant circuit on an oscillation.
Ionisation is also everywhere in those machines. Tesla made a very detailled explanation of the ionisation created by the cosmic rays in his patents number 685957 and 685958 (worth to read). Moray also claimed that the cosmic rays was the cause of the energy generation of its unit. Lycanthropist explained a bit of what he think occur in Testatika, is he right? Who knows!
Either by a transfo, a matching circuit, a transformation circuit, somehow the energy must be collected and extracted to be useful. It is a matter of fact that all these units have an interface to be utilising the energy creation.
I am convinced that no nuclear processes are involved in these machines, even if some were using bit of radioactive materials in there apparatus or part of it. Two texts lead me to this conclusion:
1-Nikola Tesla wrote a Scientific American article, "Possibilities of Electro-Static Generators" in 1934
2-"The sea of energy in which the earth float" by Moray and son, edition 4 and 5
Everyone can find these documents online with Google. In those document either Tesla or Moray's documents they are formal: There is no nuclear transformation locally!
I also believe that it should not be extremely complicated and that it is just a question of understanding what going on and gather the elements together. RF electronic technician or ham peoples should have an advance on other in this matter.
This is how I see it, putting this in application to make a working device is another world. Einstein already said something like this:
THEORY: you know it all, but nothing works. PRACTICE: all is working, but you don't know why. THEORY plus PRACTICE: nothing works and you don't know why.
FriendlyBen ;)
Hi Ben,
if you excite lightly Beta radiation material with High Voltage radio frequency bursts,
then it will emit stronger beta radiation, which are accelerated electrons,
which is a RF current that additionally enters the circuit.
Thus this released radiation is working like a REAL negative resistor.
Morray used these from his first Swedish stones minerals on, when he had
built diodes from them and excited them via local radio station RF bursts.
The question only is, which is the best material today to excite with High Voltage
pulses, so we can replicate these experiments ?
Regards, Stefan.
Dear hartiberlin,
I already had this discussion with Mr Perreault on his forum when I was a member there. I invite you to read carefully the documents I cited in the post I just sent here. The main argument in both documents is: Why create locally (radiations) what we can harvest from the cosmos (radiations). I am sure one day someone will be able to do it locally. But the question in both case is: How do you convert it to usable electricity once it is created or harvested, no matter how you have the radiations available? If you can do and convert locally, great but maybe the expenditure of energy to create it locally will decrease the efficiency while harvesting is free, it is like taking a bucket of water from a fresh spring. We have to find how to make the bucket, no matter from which spring we get the water.
By the way, thank you for your great forum!
FriendlyBen :)
Hello Lycanthropist, Scotty from LEEDSKALNIN.COM here...
I think you have explained an unusual thing i notice with my perpetual motion holder.
Also Tesla said that the electricity coming from his raised metal was NEARLY always pos...but i think not always....and i noticed this in my replication of Tesla's radiant energy patent. seen on my site in video archive.
I would very much like to chat a bit more on this...I have many many pics of the perpetual motion holder being tested with a gaussmeter...Very interesting.
Please send me a personal mail if you would like to discuss this more.
Best wishes...
Quote from: FriendlyBen on April 15, 2007, 05:28:30 PM
Dear hartiberlin,
I already had this discussion with Mr Perreault on his forum when I was a member there. I invite you to read carefully the documents I cited in the post I just sent here. The main argument in both documents is: Why create locally (radiations) what we can harvest from the cosmos (radiations). I am sure one day someone will be able to do it locally. But the question in both case is: How do you convert it to usable electricity once it is created or harvested, no matter how you have the radiations available? If you can do and convert locally, great but maybe the expenditure of energy to create it locally will decrease the efficiency while harvesting is free, it is like taking a bucket of water from a fresh spring. We have to find how to make the bucket, no matter from which spring we get the water.
By the way, thank you for your great forum!
FriendlyBen :)
Hi Ben,
the problem is, the background radiation is not that big here in earth to convert it
to Watts of power in a local point.
It is only in the mikroWatts range or even less...
So we have to use radioactive elements to have more power !
But it could be dangerous to work with highly
radioactive materials, if you don?t handle them correctly and if you breath
the radioactive dust of them, if you crack them up and have dust flying around...
and then have it in your lungs !
So I don?t want to work directly with radioactive material for safety reasons...
Regards, Stefan.
Ed Leedskalnin says
"When i reduce the matter from which comes alpha, beta and gamma rays, so small that when magnified 100 time, it appears the size of an average salt crystal...THEN I SEE NO MORE RAYS BUT HAS SPARKS, the same as when you tap a battery, BUT WITHOUT THE RED SPARKS"
"sometimes i have to wait 5 minuites for a spark"
"I think the spark is caused by the n/s pole magnets which are circulating around the earth and are hitting the matter and breaking the atom orbit...then a flash is made"
"In the northern hemisphere the north pole magnets go down and the south pole magnets go up"
"I think the scientists when testing radium for ALPHA rays on photographic film, should put the radium on top of the film and for BETA rays under the film or go to the Southern hemisphere and do the same as they are doing now (1940's), then notice if there is a difference...."
------------------------------------------------------------
Ed is saying that the rays are directional, and follow the magnetic path of the earth once they are emitted...
When i break the orbit of the pmh, it makes a flash, (if a light bulb is connected) but the orbit is permanent until you break it.....
Scotty
Dear Stefan,
I agree with you on the weak strength of the radiation that we can measure actually at the ground level. Where we should look is to find the effect of them somewhere in our surrounding. Nature provided the most efficient solar panel ever, namely the ionosphere. To some extend nature already did a part of the work done for us: radiation ionizes this part of the earth atmosphere. It is a vast reservoir of electricity that is constantly replenished. The earth is compare with a huge capacitor. Somehow, like Tesla did, we may have to establish a resonance within this capacitor to draw or pump useful energy by creating a channel to it. I am convincing that there is some other way around to reach similar effect. I agree with you that playing with radioactive material is not the way to do for safety purpose. What encourage me is that either Moray or Tesla stated that there is no nuclear effect involved in the process. Please read the two documents, it?s worth it, especially the one of Tesla ?Possibilities of Electro-Static Generators? in his conclusion, where he clearly stated there is no nuclear reaction involved to harness radiant energy.
FriendlyBen
In anay case it's damn selfish and irresponsible that if such a mchine did work that the inventor or builder should keep it to themselves. Our planet is dying from pollution! This is morally corrupt!
Think about that~I like any human want to survive, to do that I need to have money simply because society and the rules governing it demand that. To earn money I must live in the city or near to...you can see where I am going...To not pollute I can get a visa and move to some third world nation or try to change the principals of the one I am in...Both is suicide...
So what can I personally do about how I live and the energy I consume? I can limit it. Currently running a 10 w laptop with a 5 watt fluro tube lamp. So I am using 15 watts to type this and 45 watts in the phone line....
To keep this kind of thing to yourself means 2 things..
1 It never worked/
2 The inventor is a selfish pig....'
Anyway,
Sorry to change the subject but the stories I hear about this crap endure and I believe them to be false. No humancould invent such a thing and simply keep it to themselves....period/
You are right,
many people are angry by now at Methernitha, cause they still keep
it under wraps after such a long time.
I hope somebody can convince them to come finally forward and
present the technology to the world...
Is a forum member here, that still has regular contact with Methernitha
and lives near Linden in Switzerland ?
Is Baumann still living ? He must be pretty old by now and rumours
went around, that he already passed away...
Please keep us informed.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
Hi Stephan and 2012
This is their web site http://www.methernitha.com/index.html
One may ask them directly why they do not disclose the technology, but as they said on their site; they still doing R&D on Testatika. This means that the technology is not yet ready for constant utilization. Maybe even at a point where it is dangerous for the health to operate in its actual form. This electrostatic machine may draw its electrons from the ambient air; this may lead to a highly positively charged ambient atmosphere when it is a fact that this is bad for health. Negatively charged atmosphere is the good one for health, which is why so many companies sell these "Ionizer" which sends extras electron to the ambient air. I think that Methernita community is very careful about it and it is all to their honor.
I think we are too fast to condemn them of their intentions.
If there is something not controllable in this machine; there are maybe many good reasons why they do not disclose it.
FriendlyBen
Greetings all,
I sent an email directly to Lycanthropist about his post. The following is my message to him:
Hi Lycanthropist...
Sorry for the direct contact, but this seemed like the best way to get ahold of you.
I was reading your post about the Principle Experiment in the Testatika section on overunity.com. It made far more sense than anything I've read about the device. Since you mentioned that you'd verbally describe your replication, I've come to beg some of your knowledge. The "starved capacitor" idea is awesome -- I'm just not visualing the how and why of it. Can you shed a little more light on this?
Thanks in advance...
His reply:
I'm going to be posting the whole 9 yards on the Yahoo Testatika Group page, starting in about a week ... (emphasis mine)
As far as a starved capacitor, you need to break free of electronics
teaching, and realize that positive charges move too. If they move too fast, it's called radiation and it's scary.
In a DC circuit, positive charges move in the metal atoms in the wire, negative charges are moving on the wire surface in the opposite direction, to compensate. Modern electronics theory does not include this fact, but basic chemistry does. Chemistry calls it 'ions' and 'valence'.
If you charge a cap then drain with a quick short circuit, it will
partially recharge, because the slow positive charges are moving IN the wire, but free electrons are moving ON the wire. Short it and drain it again. Wait. Again. Wait. Again.
Just like a picture tube in a tv set, it builds it's charge back up. The slow moving positives are staying, the free electrons are becoming heat and leaving. In a radio RF circuit, the AC in the wire gets a "skin effect" because of this mechanical frustration between flipping charges.
We can starve it better by throwing the electrons off of a spinning wheel with lots of surface area, while we're shorting out the cap. Just keep a high negative charge on the back mesh plate behind the front grid-wheel and the negative electrons will go flying away from the sharp corners on the wheel, opposite of a wimshurst
arrangement. They will go flying towards the positive charged caps ... just let them sit there as static on the glass outside of the jars, until you need them. Use wire mesh in the caps to increase surface area of the positive charges, otherwise they hide in the center of a wire or metal plate. We want them to attract the freed electrons, so use mesh.
-the Alchemist-
-------------------------------------------------
Please post the above explanation & signature everywhere you can, and please do not edit or delete any part of it. Send it to the site where you found my original posting, as a follow up.
Thanx,
Bill
I just signed up on the Yahoo Testatika group -- and keeping my fingers crossed.
Best wishes to all,
Chris
Hello, i am also busy with building a testatika device. I think, they are using discs of different materials.
Because one disc must be Positive and the other negative.
That's why i am going to use a Glas disc and a Vinyl disc.
I have those two discs allready, and also the metal plates on the disc. ( chroomsteal, can be made magnetic )
I have tested with my hand ( positive ) to charge it on the back of the vinyl disc ( negative ) and if you look good on the picture, you see sparks coming to the middle. so that theory is a proof for me, that the ions are going to the middle ( to get less energie leaks )
Tell me , if i made the right choise, for using a glas and a vinyl disc.
I have not build it up yet, because i am first busy with renovate the bathroom, because we get a baby in the end of december, but I will go futher with it, when i done most work at home ( also babyroom )
Oh i have a question,
With the wimhurst machine, the voltage is created with the brushes, but they are not on the Testatika machine. ( not the metal plates in front of the machine, those are for collecting and stearing the discs )
Where is the creation for electrons in the Testatika machine? or does it create by the two disc, rotating the opposite way? and then a distance between the disc at a few mm?
here another photo of the two discs, glued with the " lamels "
I hope you like it
How is your project doing? What about you'r renovation?
What metal do you mean by chroomsteal? Do you mean Chrome Steel = Stainless Steel ?
Where did you get all the material, I mean that those kind of steel grids are not sold every shop :)
Have you documented any test results so far?
Hi,
Yes, its chroomsteel, and is RVS, but i can be made magnetic.
The project is now on a pauze first, because, I am gonna be a father, and am very busy with the babyroom, and renovate the bathroom. its going well, but cost alot of time.
After that i go futher with building the device.
Greetings Peter from Holland
@ Lycanthropist, the best explanation i ever heard for this type of device.
Very close to beardens explanations, building a negative resistance ...
@ Peter from Holland, wow that looks very professional as far!
Nice job Peter , I feel you choise the right matierials on the dics. I was looking over Steves web site and been studing it very closely. could we post a list of all the sites covering this machine in the first part of the thread and keep it up dated ? and start a list and merge steves tread with thid one seeing we'll be working in the same machine. Mike
Sulake, you asked where I got the materials from, well, I work in a Perforating Fabric of metal. so better it can not be ;)
I have now made first the aluminium tubes for the long tubes. which I think, they are the energy collectors from the air.
In the meanwhile I was busy with the bathroom ( babyroom is finished ) I bought also more materials for building it up. So sometimes I go futher with it, but more with the bathroom.
I can get all perforating materials ( mesh, aluminium, rvs, chroomsteel, copper, and last time we were perforating tutanium what is very very expensive.
I will make several different brushes ( antenne keys ) some of mesh, some of aluminium, and also dual brushes, but I have to test it, what is the best.
Ok, I have to go to my work now.
Here is where I work:
http://www.perfox.com
its in europe, in holland.
Greetings Peter
@ Pete-Ã, nice plant you work at. Must be nice to be able to have the use of the tooling. I work in a glass / plasticÃ, fabrication plant , plant engineer , hands on , so i get to fab a lot of different things. am doing some tests on silver mirror frenzies to see if that works , very thin coating , so there are no edges.Ã, Ã, Ã, good luck with the bath roomÃ, and your new family member !Ã, Ã, MikeÃ, PS what are you going to use as bearing hubs in the center. Is there any chance I could get a set of the frenzies (metal plates) like you have and how much?
Quote from: Motorcoach1 on November 27, 2007, 01:24:39 PM
@ Pete- nice plant you work at. Must be nice to be able to have the use of the tooling. I work in a glass / plastic fabrication plant , plant engineer , hands on , so i get to fab a lot of different things. am doing some tests on silver mirror frenzies to see if that works , very thin coating , so there are no edges. good luck with the bath room and your new family member ! Mike PS what are you going to use as bearing hubs in the center. Is there any chance I could get a set of the frenzies (metal plates) like you have and how much?
Thx Mike ( with the goodluck and new family member )
Oh that is nice working with plastics, I need some more stuff. hehe.
But i have an adres for my plastic manufacturing. not so expensive and 25 km from home.
For the bearing, I use 2 bearings for each disc. so totall 4 bearings.
I do it different then the original testatika and people who want to copy it, because there are several theories for letting the discs rotating automatic. some people say, that its rotating by the brushes ( pushing and attraccing ) and some say, by the horseshoe magnets on the floor. and some people say that there are also steel plates on the inside of the both disc's , only more distance between the plates then in front of the discs.
I think it also rotates by another small metal disc, its very close to one of the long tubes.
So I do all of these tests ( have to test first offcourse ) and when its not rotating automatic, I have another idea from my self, but then i have to add something on the ax ( the steel pin, dont know what its called in english. lol )
It a kind of Implosion technick, and there is then no lost of power. it increases. Its about voltage leaking, and i pick the leaking up again, and put it in a circle so the power is going back to the beginning.
I have allready made the aluminium tubes. ( ion antennes for the surrounding air ) aluminium is an ion-reflector ( have heard the in the docu " how ufo's fly " its on google video.
and I have made some metal brushes. different types, and I go combine it either, double layed brushes with an isolator between it. so then you get a positive charge on one side, and on the other side a negative charge, so then its easier to collect the ions from the disc. but just theories of me. have to experiment it offcourse first.
Ok here some new pictures:
Oh Mike, about getting the perforating sheets, it was also very hard for me, because my machine could not perforate them, but another machine ( where i dont have the knowledge off ) has made them, and one off my work has made them for me. and also sneaky in the nightshift.
I have ordered the chroomsteel plates by my self, two of 2000x1000x0.5 mm. and that costed me allready 110 euro's. and they it costed about time about 8 houres. so will be hard to make them again. i have about 96 lamels per disc, so total about 192 lamels.
But maybe you can try to email our company and ask what it cost. I have a design of it in autocad.
I have a question for you, what kind of materials do you think they use for the 2 disc's of the Testatika?
I have seen the interview from baumann, but he lies sometimes about the testatika. My understanding of the german language is enough for me)
But I have based it on the Triboelectric series. and they dont make one disc black for fun. and no one has been succesfull with copying the testatika till so far, and they all used the same material for both discs, ( plexi glass ) and they only get about 5 mv. lol, and some people nothing at all.
Peter
@ peter - nice to hear from you. the disks only perpetuate the ion field , so the 5mv is static at this time. I got intrested in the machine when I studied weather for a vortex project and started reading about this. When Paul talked about the parts being the sky and clouds and earth that intrested me and haveing the knowledge of the weather it really made sence of how the disks worked. I'm already knolageable on the Lyten jar and the diode so thats esay for me. just need to build some. the thing you will need in the future is some Quarts from that area (swiss) or( Ural) so check with some local rock shops, I tell you why later as we get more going. I agree on the ax or pin as you call it I saw that too. and some are belt driven. but remember the disks are Ion wind makers. the only thing I thought of today on your frenzies (plates) they might be to close together, you mentioned static fireing at the tips to the center , I'm still in question about that , you need all the positive ions you can get the neg's are easy to get, I feel your fireing off the pos's but we'll see.Ã, Ã, good luck.Ã, sooooo girl or boy mmmmmÃ, ;DÃ, Ã, mikeÃ, best reguards opps frgot about the type of disk - plexi the black plexi has a iron compound the makes the color plus carbon lamp black , clear is just plan ole clear. in the process of the black is hit with high voltage and that turns in into a Electrct mmmmm now thats cool .......of course it destatict but still carries a charge
Quote from: Motorcoach1 on November 27, 2007, 08:07:30 PM
@ peter - nice to hear from you. the disks only perpetuate the ion field , so the 5mv is static at this time. I got intrested in the machine when I studied weather for a vortex project and started reading about this. When Paul talked about the parts being the sky and clouds and earth that intrested me and haveing the knowledge of the weather it really made sence of how the disks worked. I'm already knolageable on the Lyten jar and the diode so thats esay for me. just need to build some. the thing you will need in the future is some Quarts from that area (swiss) or( Ural) so check with some local rock shops, I tell you why later as we get more going. I agree on the ax or pin as you call it I saw that too. and some are belt driven. but remember the disks are Ion wind makers. the only thing I thought of today on your frenzies (plates) they might be to close together, you mentioned static fireing at the tips to the center , I'm still in question about that , you need all the positive ions you can get the neg's are easy to get, I feel your fireing off the pos's but we'll see. good luck. sooooo girl or boy mmmmm ;D mike best reguards opps frgot about the type of disk - plexi the black plexi has a iron compound the makes the color plus carbon lamp black , clear is just plan ole clear. in the process of the black is hit with high voltage and that turns in into a Electrct mmmmm now thats cool .......of course it destatict but still carries a charge
About the frenzies, I have tested the vinyl disc, to make it static with my hands at the back of the disc. and i saw sparks at the end ( center disc ) of the lamels ( frenzies ), but if i have build it up all, and i have still sparks, then i go isolate it with an invisible paint between the lamels. ( not on the lamels ) so there are no sparks anymore, but the energy is still going to the center of the disc.
The diode is used for braking the speed of the discs in the testatika, but I will do that later. I gonna build it up, step by step, and test it step by step. also the big coils, they are for reduce the voltage to a usable voltage ( 220 to 270 volt ) I dont need that voltage, because I want to use the higher voltage for more inventions in my head.
The diode is a kind of shortcircuit. and is build by several little copper discs with an isolater in the middle of the hole. you can see it in this picture, the copper metal discs are on the table in front, ready to build in the diode.
Futher for the horseshoe magnets and the small metal plates and the isolators between it, could be for AC/DC.
The charge is going left and right and to the left again between the horseshoe magnets. but that is just a theory from me, maybe i am wrong. so if its for ac/dc, I dont need that too. LoL.
But I am doubting if the testatika use quartz for in the tubes / leydenjars. on the single disc, they have used a primitive version of the long tubes. ( the copper spiral what is going to a small tube.)
I think, the tubes are the ion collectors from the surrounding air. There is a copper spiral through the tube, and around the spiral is a glass tube of 2 cm, around this is a aluminium tube about 7 cm, and around this is a glas tube a little bigger then aluminium tube ( 7.2 cm )
If on the spiral is a negative charge, it attracs positive ions from the surrounding air, and will charge the aluminium tube positive ( free energy ) the glass tube around the copper spiral is against shortcut ( sparks ) and the glasstube around the aluminium tube, is against dust and moist.
Only what I dont understand, if i look to pictures from the testatika, you can see, that the long tubes are build up in 3 layers. you can see it in the plasma. in the top of the tubes is less plasma. dont understand why. maybe they did it by a reason.
Well I have to go to my work now, perforating metal plats ;)
Sometimes I perforate about 500 plates in one shift, sometimes 3000 plates, depending of the perforation.
LoL. dont understand why companies uses so many plates.
Greetings Peter
Hello Peter: I cut the glass disks today, 55cm, 6mm thick. I used solor ray bronze. I was thinking on sandblasting the frenzies or useing acid to remove the mirror surface. Let my know your thoughts on this step . hows the remodeling going ;D thanks a bunch Mike
Quote from: Motorcoach1 on December 06, 2007, 05:41:05 PM
Hello Peter: I cut the glass disks today, 55cm, 6mm thick. I used solor ray bronze. I was thinking on sandblasting the frenzies or useing acid to remove the mirror surface. Let my know your thoughts on this step . hows the remodeling going ;D thanks a bunch Mike
Hi Mike,
I dont know if solar ray bronze glass is working, I use normal glass. Is that glass you use, coated? if its a kind of plastic, it doesnt matter, but if its metal, its not good. because then you have a metal surface on it. but you can try it. I would not sandblasting it, or maybe only one side where the coating is on, but not both sides. because you need a flat surface for static charging.
I almost build up the device. Very busy now, baby is almost coming, and I am working now in the weekend for some extra money.
Succes Mike
Peter
Quote from: Motorcoach1 on November 27, 2007, 08:07:30 PM
opps frgot about the type of disk - plexi the black plexi has a iron compound the makes the color plus carbon lamp black , clear is just plan ole clear. in the process of the black is hit with high voltage and that turns in into a Electrct mmmmm now thats cool .......of course it destatict but still carries a charge
I hadn't thought of this explanation for the black disk. Good one. I had read on a Keelynet page
that you can make a stronger electret by embedding it with conductive particles of some type.
Searching again turned up this: http://keelynet.com/electret.htm
-Steve
http://rimstar.org
When that is the key for the kind of material of the black disc, then its very hard to get such a disc.
I have allready asked the company where i have bought my vinyl disc.
Will be expensive.
It hadn't even crossed my mind that someone could make it for us. I was thinking more of how hard it would be to make at home - very very hard! Hopefully it's not necessary.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org
@ peter
Great work on the machine !!!! looking forward to hearing about your progress.
@ everyone else -
I know there are a lot of theories out there concerning the operatios of ths device.
many of which should be taken with a grain of salt....
The device doesn't necesarily "tap" into any hidden energy source, like is often suggested.
The energy the device uses is connomplace among mankind, and is even part of the devices name.
the only 2 secrets they keep from us are this::
1) Their particular method for harvesting/storing the charge imbalance ( + and -, respectively)
and
2) Their method of conversion from a high-voltage,static (Bi-Directional) electricity ,
into a Uni-Directional electricity like we use in our devices, motors, ect.
These two are hinted to in several discussions, but are not fully explained to any degree.
#2 is obviously a specially designed transformer, the likes of which EEE electronics science has never fully accomplished. (reason we dont use the lightning rods that are on 90% of our skyscrapers to power anything useful)
#1 - is the greatest mystery of all. i assume by the images and descriptions that it has a reversed whimhurst type effect, to charge inductive capaticers (layden jars). - this is the simplified version of the machine.
Science tells us that static charges are in the kilavolt range. What they dont teach us is that the curent is infinite. (yes i said infinite), and is restricted ONLY by the resistance of the circuit (load).
There are 3 basic factors that control the ammount of power obtained from the machine.
-- and not to throw any monkey wrenches into any extravagant machines that are currently being built, but virtually ANY static machine can be utilized in a similar fashion, even a rudementary van degraff, though the Testatika appears to be very efficient.---
1) Static Charge Imbalance - this is controlled by the speed of the machine - and unless under a heavy load, should be relatively constant.
2) Rate of the discharge - this is controlled by a) the spark gap and b) the charge rate/capacity of the disks (or rollers+belt/friction surface/ect) - this too is a constant
3) Duration of Discharge - This is controlled by the charge capacity of the cap/condenser/layden jar - This is our main variable and will control the capacity of our machine to perform work (load).
Problem: How to convert a static current (bi-directional) into a Direct or Alternating (uni-directional) current. We need to study their transformer, it does much more than A/C to DC conversion, it in fact converts the static charge into usable electricity.
it is no secret that there are enormous ammounts of power comming our of these machines.
Here is an example that proves ANY static machine is over-unity.
Experiment::
take a steel or iron pellet of given weight,
you can calculate the ammount of energy (joules) required to melt the pellet - its a set number, based on known scientific constants, you HAVE to have X ammount of energy to melt that pellet.
Factors: Mass (g) , Room Temperature (T) , Melting Point of Iron ( T1)
Now, make a small static machine, like the 9-v PVC VanDegraff machine.
now, hold your electrods in a constant arc onto the iron/steel pellet, like a mini arc-welder
and measure the 9v current into the machine, measure the time it takes to melt
and Whalla - you can easily see that you've put into the machine approx 1 / 216th of the required energy to melt the stel balls.
(using the 8g steel balls i melted with a 9v battery)
now, obviously the energy is comming from the ions in the air, and the energy i put into the system was from the 9v battery, but the energy comming OUT of the system is exponentially greater tan the energy put in. WHY?? doesnt this violate some law of physics?? NOO
simply put, this is NOT a closed system, the laws of thermodynamics do not apply to this system.
is it Overunity?? from our perspective , it Sure Is !! we take one 9v and turn it into a 40w arc welder that runs for hours.
If we can figure out how to convert the bi-directional electricity into usable current, its all a cakewalk from there.
Dont make this more complicated than it truly is. The ONLY reason we dont use these mahcine to power the entire planet is we cannot figure out how to convert it into usable electricity,. the stuff sparks jumps, burns, and leaks out all over the place.
If anyone knows how methernithia is converting this stuff, this is te greatest secret mankind could ever achieve.
Hi smOky2,
my opinion is hughlighted between your lines:
You wrote:
"@ peter
Great work on the machine !!!! looking forward to hearing about your progress.
@ everyone else -
I know there are a lot of theories out there concerning the operatios of ths device.
many of which should be taken with a grain of salt....
The device doesn't necesarily "tap" into any hidden energy source, like is often suggested.
The energy the device uses is connomplace among mankind, and is even part of the devices name.
2statika
the only 2 secrets they keep from us are this::
1) Their particular method for harvesting/storing the charge imbalance ( + and -, respectively)
closed system including at least one permanent charge storing medium (electret like, permanent dipole)
and
2) Their method of conversion from a high-voltage,static (Bi-Directional) electricity ,
into a Uni-Directional electricity like we use in our devices, motors, ect.
harmonic flow in short cut mode, e.g. over glow discharge lamp with defined breakdownvoltage
These two are hinted to in several discussions, but are not fully explained to any degree.
#2 is obviously a specially designed transformer, the likes of which EEE electronics science has never fully accomplished. (reason we dont use the lightning rods that are on 90% of our skyscrapers to power anything useful)
#1 - is the greatest mystery of all. i assume by the images and descriptions that it has a reversed whimhurst type effect, to charge inductive capaticers (layden jars). - this is the simplified version of the machine.
rota-version of electrophorus (single- or monopoleversion)
Science tells us that static charges are in the kilavolt range. What they dont teach us is that the curent is infinite. (yes i said infinite), and is restricted ONLY by the resistance of the circuit (load).
thats it. don't make a massive barrier for the electrons. let them flow pure ohmic over a step down transformer (I^2*R losses decrease?).
There are 3 basic factors that control the ammount of power obtained from the machine.
-- and not to throw any monkey wrenches into any extravagant machines that are currently being built, but virtually ANY static machine can be utilized in a similar fashion, even a rudementary van degraff, though the Testatika appears to be very efficient.---
the sequence of the shielded and unshielded sectors should alter in two sets of disksectors, starshaped all interconnected.
1) Static Charge Imbalance - this is controlled by the speed of the machine - and unless under a heavy load, should be relatively constant.
the sequence results out of the designrule to avoid backdragging forces, instead generate a pulsating forwardthrust against the state of ever moving rest
2) Rate of the discharge - this is controlled by a) the spark gap and b) the charge rate/capacity of the disks (or rollers+belt/friction surface/ect) - this too is a constant
maybe no controll required due to the continiously connected outer surfaces of the sectored electrophorus, shotrcutted over e.g. a glow discharge lamp out of a phase tester.
3) Duration of Discharge - This is controlled by the charge capacity of the cap/condenser/layden jar - This is our main variable and will control the capacity of our machine to perform work (load).
continiously discharge statica and therefore a ideally sineformed output, what depends maybe on some shapefactors of the sectors and the unshielded areas.
Problem: How to convert a static current (bi-directional) into a Direct or Alternating (uni-directional) current. We need to study their transformer, it does much more than A/C to DC conversion, it in fact converts the static charge into usable electricity.
use a glow dircharge lamp without the 1meg resistor, breakdown at circa 100V, therefore a moderate dischargetime is reached to allow reduced sinewave oscillations which rests in destructive interferences, instead of harmonic oscillations forward and backward.
it is no secret that there are enormous ammounts of power comming our of these machines.
Here is an example that proves ANY static machine is over-unity.
not prooven yet by me
Experiment::
create a basic electrophorus configuration using a sheet of alufoil with a vinyldisk LP on top (rubbed with soft cloth), aluminium enclosed disk as influenced structure; glow discharge lamp out of phasetester, connected between upper surface of influenced structure and the lowest placed aluminiumsheet. make a mave up or downwards ever there is an flow of electrons in an programmed dependency inside the lamp. Move up and down in an close proximity to the intermediate surfaces in an rhythmic manner while moving only a small distance while moving faster creates a nearly continious harmonic flow inside the plasma what results in an pulsating from top to dawn and back to top movement of charges without sharp interrruptions but with continiously changing speed of the charges.
take a steel or iron pellet of given weight,
you can calculate the ammount of energy (joules) required to melt the pellet - its a set number, based on known scientific constants, you HAVE to have X ammount of energy to melt that pellet.
Factors: Mass (g) , Room Temperature (T) , Melting Point of Iron ( T1)
Now, make a small static machine, like the 9-v PVC VanDegraff machine.
now, hold your electrods in a constant arc onto the iron/steel pellet, like a mini arc-welder
and measure the 9v current into the machine, measure the time it takes to melt
and Whalla - you can easily see that you've put into the machine approx 1 / 216th of the required energy to melt the stel balls.
(using the 8g steel balls i melted with a 9v battery)
now, obviously the energy is comming from the ions in the air, and the energy i put into the system was from the 9v battery, but the energy comming OUT of the system is exponentially greater tan the energy put in. WHY?? doesnt this violate some law of physics?? NOO
simply put, this is NOT a closed system, the laws of thermodynamics do not apply to this system.
is it Overunity?? from our perspective , it Sure Is !! we take one 9v and turn it into a 40w arc welder that runs for hours.
If we can figure out how to convert the bi-directional electricity into usable current, its all a cakewalk from there.
Dont make this more complicated than it truly is. The ONLY reason we dont use these mahcine to power the entire planet is we cannot figure out how to convert it into usable electricity,. the stuff sparks jumps, burns, and leaks out all over the place.
If anyone knows how methernithia is converting this stuff, this is te greatest secret mankind could ever achieve."
best wishes
kaRLfunkel
smOky2,
additioinal: no earth connection is required in the methode described by me.
connect simply the top to the bottom layer over a lamp. move it and see the conservation of the charges in the system while recharging without reaching high potentials due to the voltage reducing funktion of the lamp.
Google for electrophorus simple construction to find the configuration I'm speaking about, combine.
GoodVi~~~~~~~~~~
Quote from: sm0ky2 on December 09, 2007, 07:04:33 PM
Experiment::
take a steel or iron pellet of given weight,
you can calculate the ammount of energy (joules) required to melt the pellet - its a set number, based on known scientific constants, you HAVE to have X ammount of energy to melt that pellet.
Factors: Mass (g) , Room Temperature (T) , Melting Point of Iron ( T1)
Now, make a small static machine, like the 9-v PVC VanDegraff machine.
now, hold your electrods in a constant arc onto the iron/steel pellet, like a mini arc-welder
and measure the 9v current into the machine, measure the time it takes to melt
and Whalla - you can easily see that you've put into the machine approx 1 / 216th of the required energy to melt the stel balls.
(using the 8g steel balls i melted with a 9v battery)
now, obviously the energy is comming from the ions in the air, and the energy i put into the system was from the 9v battery, but the energy comming OUT of the system is exponentially greater tan the energy put in. WHY?? doesnt this violate some law of physics?? NOO
simply put, this is NOT a closed system, the laws of thermodynamics do not apply to this system.
is it Overunity?? from our perspective , it Sure Is !! we take one 9v and turn it into a 40w arc welder that runs for hours.
sm0ky2,
Have you done this experiment? It sounds like you're saying you have. You actually melted steel balls with a small Van de Graaff generator? How big is the top dome of your Van de Graaff?
-Steve
http://rimstar.org
Quote from: Steven Dufresne on December 09, 2007, 09:36:45 PM
Quote from: sm0ky2 on December 09, 2007, 07:04:33 PM
sm0ky2,
How big is the top dome of your Van de Graaff?
-Steve
OK,. for this experiment you will need not a dome. the Dome is for visual effects, and toys.
What you will need here is 2 electrodes, each fed with opposite charge, spherical shapes help, and their size is directly proportional to the ammount of charge you get from your generator.
similar to a wimhurst, that has the 2 balls on swingable arms. except mine are 2 grounding straps connected to anteana balls with a screw, and strapped to insulating (wood) handles.
sorry if i gave you the wrong impression, whe i say "van de graff" i mean pretty much a belt driven static-electric generator.
vs one that uses disks., they both do the same thing, belts are very inneficient, but are a LOT easier to construct a working model, and also have the advantage of being able to work in moist air conditions.
@Pete : heres a pic of the first disk on bronze with first surface mirror ( solorray glass ), this one sandblasted 150 mesh , will glue the hub on with glassine glue ( eastman 910 ) lockthght will work too. when I get the second disk done I;ll start testing this weekend. MikeÃ,Â
@Mike,
It took a minute to realize what you'd done. Nice work! How did you get such perfect lines and spacing?
-Steve
http://rimstar.org
I do graphic art so it's easy for me. if you want I'll do a photo doc. on all the steps so you can publish them on your site. I have to make another disk to test with , I'll probably make different types in plexy glass too. I thought it came out real nice for the first one. and thanks :D @ pete how many days wer're counting till the new babe gets here ;D
To steven and coach,
best way to transform this collected electrons is to let them flow without capture and collect them. In this case you short out the system by using a low ohmic load (as described in my earlier post). Take a small or big glow discharge lamp. This is an ideal load in my opinion.
The rotating electrophorus is also driven by a small motor. I prefer induction motors which (ventilator, my small one is out of a microwave oven).
This motors have no backward reaction when driven with sine wave output. You achieve the sinwave by electrode shape and low ohmic constant load as in the induction motor. This motors are tuned to 50Hz. This means there is a fixed relationship between rpm and driving voltage when current is high enough.
One advantage of the electrophorus system and some other V-generators is the fact that they run under low ohmic conditions better than with a spark gap.
If you run them as a sparking generator backdrag rises.
Think about it.
In different configurations no brushes are required and no sparking areas.
karl
I think that?s close Steven.
Metal and/or bucky balls would be very
much like the metal ink layer in
the ?shock in the shower? bottle.
Possibly forming nano capacitors as well.
Its what meant in a pm I sent you a while ago
>?Ps, I think the dark disk might be like the ink.?
Cliff,
Quote from: Steven Dufresne on December 09, 2007, 01:37:33 PM
Quote from: Motorcoach1 on November 27, 2007, 08:07:30 PM
opps frgot about the type of disk - plexi the black plexi has a iron compound the makes the color plus carbon lamp black , clear is just plan ole clear. in the process of the black is hit with high voltage and that turns in into a Electrct mmmmm now thats cool .......of course it destatict but still carries a charge
I hadn't thought of this explanation for the black disk. Good one. I had read on a Keelynet page
that you can make a stronger electret by embedding it with conductive particles of some type.
Searching again turned up this: http://keelynet.com/electret.htm
-Steve
http://rimstar.org
Quote from: Motorcoach1 on December 11, 2007, 10:06:39 PM
I do graphic art so it's easy for me. if you want I'll do a photo doc. on all the steps so you can publish them on your site. I have to make another disk to test with , I'll probably make different types in plexy glass too. I thought it came out real nice for the first one. and thanks :D @ pete how many days wer're counting till the new babe gets here ;D
Mike,
Once you have some experimental data to go with it, I'd be hapy to publish the data and your disk construction technique. Just send me an email at the time.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org
there is no storm just clouds , dosen't mater how thick the metal is . it creates the storm , doesen;t mater what you make the cloud from but the storrm has to get made kinda like a hurricane just the inside vortex wall .
@ smOky2
I think you may be right on the money, If you look at the major components we see a static generator and caps(leyden jars), and we are told this device powers conventional devices infering conventional current. Knowing this it seems obvious there must be some component that must convert what we percieve as "static" charges into electric current. As far as I know the only difference between static electricity and conventional current is that conventional current has a magnetic field associated with it, so I think the whole machine and its operation must revolve around one single component that will allow moving static charges to interact with a magnetic field producing a "changing" magnetic field or electric current. To me personally it seems very odd that this is the single component nobody wants to talk about, everyone seems to have this preoccupation with the static components which are know technologies, that is we understand exactly how they work. With Tesla circuits we can produce static charges of any potential as well, but they give very little indication of how one might go about using these high potentials to produce electric current and tangible work. Currently my goal is to find this one single answer as to how static charges can produce a changing magnetic field in the most efficient manner, If I can answer this one question I think all these OU technologies operation will become obvious.
Do any of you guys have any thoughts on how this could be done?
The problem is I believe that testatika machine is a simply a wimhurst machine with an RF radio frequence high
efficiency voltage downconverter. This converts static electricity (electrical potential energy) to 300+ VDC current by
stepping it down via RF transformers. High efficiency means preserving the volts x amps or power relationship of the
signal while stepping it down. The RF oscillator and probably rectifier are built as the purpose built one vacuume
tube oscillator with the static electric voltage applied to the plate circuit of the vacumme tube. Static electricity
is a group of electrons that move together as a group and *that movement constitutes a small current*. Standard
electricity is electrodynamic current. What is being covered up here is that there are probably no other special
components for doing any overunity operations other then the wimshurst machine itself in the testatika machine.
By the way the horseshoe magnets with the wire wrapped around them and plexiglass capacitors are not secret
energy converters - they regulate the power level of the device and are part of a Variable frequency oscillator that
keeps the machine operating at it's tuned RF reasonant sweet spot. If the power inside the machine starts to go
up the VFO causes the RF operating frequency to go up and the machine is no longer operating at most
efficient reasonace sweet spot. Antenna keys keep the machines from syncronizing with each other and other
processes so they can remove generated energy effectivelty.
I believe;
Wimshurst static electric generator machine are inheriently Coefficient of Output Power greater than one
which use the environments internal power flows rather than ZPE zero point energy to function. Almost this is certainly true
because some people have used and long antenna like wire to stimulate the enviroment to give back even more
static energy to wimshurst machines. Wimshurst machine operate by means of static electric "recruitment of charge". Another
post in this forum shows a high power wimshurst machine running in someones living room that almost certainly would have COP
greater than one. I could see him lighting a big cluster of flourescent lamp tubes and collecting the resultant light with photocell
strips and running a small electric motor to turn the wheels of his machine. There are about five different ways to downconvert
static electric charge to lower voltage electrodynamic current and the testatika machine runs one of them. It must be noted
that using greater than 10K VDC on the plates of a vacuume tube will result in the generation of soft x-rays which will need
to be sheilded, if one attempts what the testatika machine does with modern circuits. Some people talk about trying to use
a Van De Graf generator for this purpose rather than wimshurst , but a Van De Graf generator uses a high voltage
power supply to inject static charges onto a belt. This makes the resultant stored voltages even higher which simply makes
downconverting to low voltages much harder.
Think of thermal heatpump heating system. The heat from a wide area is collected together via a fan then is made to
flow in a freon line. COP overunity flows are not a problem to science. If you want even more energy you run a geothermal
line through the ground to collect more heat energy to it. The reason you do not see self runing thermal systems is
that heat engines for low temperature thermal streams are very inefficient due to Carnots Law. The Wimshusrt machine works
that same way except that the energy is electrons stripped from ionized matter during charge recruitment. The difference is
that wimshurst electrostatic potential energy is nearly electrodynamic current as it is, that simply needs to be converted
relatively efficienctly and have some it turn the machine. Then you will have a self running system. The only problem then is
that you will be to be careful of environmental "return flows" that happen automatically to neutralize the ionized matter.
So the design of the testatika machine while quite advanced for 1924 or whenever it was initially designed but I'll bet money
that it contains no other overunity secrets other than the Wimshurst static machine have COP>1 environmental energy flows
to produce overunity operation. People with radical theories of operation do nothing but obscure that true facts and this is why
most people claim that MIB's spread disinformation. Conservation of energy violations are limited to ZPE devices like magnetic
motors - seen any of those demonstrated recently? I repeat laws against propetual motion do not apply to environmental energy
flows...know your overunity.
:MarkS.Coffman
@mscoffman
Now thats the kind of explanation I wanted to hear, something that has a ring of commen sense to it . I think Im going to have to do some more experiments in that direction, do you have any opinions on the best down-converter? I wonder if a person could use a DC/DC converter to drop the voltage?
Hi folks,
I wondered if i might be able to adapt my contraption to convert the static into current.....
I'll tell you the difference.....static is made by the atoms that hold together the matter, but electricity flow is caused by the excess force in the wire or matter.
The wire has a magnetic field like a bar magnet but the static matter has many poles all on the same side.
Attract salt crystals with a rubber static magnet...now move the salt crystals a little and if an opposite pole is on them they will jump away from the rubber magnet.
I can stack salt crystals on top of each other spinning in a static field, but only for a short time....google....static spin.....see what you find.
I'm changing my caps and collectors at the moment...
With the primary magnet motor, i can generate some current from the rotor, which is actually a wind turbine rotor...plus i can get the EMF spikes from the motor coils everytime they collapse.
Scotty.
i think we are heading in the right direction here guys. One thing to think about is that the 'static' current has 2 magnetic fields, each moving in opposite directions (helix) and they effectively cancel each other out.
unidirectional current produces a polarized field that can be measured, and used to induce current in another wire.
running it through a transformer will convert a portion of the charge to a lower voltage but the insulation must be VERY effective, otherwise a good deal of the charge potential will appear on the surface of the insulated wires, and the exterior of the transformer, and the table its mounted to, and anyone that touches it ect...... where-in lies most of our problem.
2-14% is induced as a lower voltage on the pick-up coil, and the other 86+% is discharged statically through sparks and leaks in the machine.
As for the Van-Degraff::::: to perform ANY kind of OU experiments with static electricity, you must use a MECHANICAL Van-Degraff, NOT an HV-Transformer - These waste 200% of the electricity before the machine even charges up. A Mechanical (motor-driven) belt can extract the carges directly from the environment much like the whimhurst.
I think what should be done at this point is to have 2 LARGE layden jars, that can be charged (through whatever means) and experiment with different ways to step-down that charge into usable current.
One idea comes from a book written by some guy that claims to have witnessed the Testatika machine in action.
His description of the process went something like this:: A pulsed discharge from the 2 layden jars firing oppositely to a common ground, to produce a high voltage A/C signal which is then rectified by an isolated electro-static inductor coupled with a normal (copper) induction coil.
Now, i can imagine the construction of such a specialized transformer, it doesnt seem to me to be all that complicated. what i can't figure out is what kind of material would be best used for the electro-statically conductive (insulated) coil. what i know about static electricity tells me a normal wire here will not eliminate the bi-directional electric field.
What i dont see from any of the devices is how the static current is directed over the coils to induce a uni-directional field. supposing we had a material that would easily accept a static charge, insulate it in a material that does not, and use that as your primary
then normal copper secondary..........
The laws of physics are not in any way violated by this type of "overunity", because we are no longer operating in a Closed System. we are essentially transfering energy from the environment into our system.
Quote from: mscoffman on December 15, 2007, 03:38:47 PM
Wimshurst static electric generator machine are inheriently Coefficient of Output Power greater than one which use the environments internal power flows rather than ZPE zero point energy to function. Almost this is certainly true because some people have used and long antenna like wire to stimulate the enviroment to give back even more static energy to wimshurst machines. Wimshurst machine operate by means of static electric "recruitment of charge".
I'm usually a proponent of the ZPE theory because of the potentially large power output and the large output of the testatika, however, I really like this idea of antenna like wires extending out into the enviroment. The overall electric field would still be the same but it's the equivalent of putting a short thick pipe with holes in it to pull in oil and muck from a local pocket or putting out a long thin pipe with holes in it to reach more pockets. I'm very tempted to try it.
Quote from: mscoffman on December 15, 2007, 03:38:47 PM
Another post in this forum shows a high power wimshurst machine running in someones living room that almost certainly would have COP greater than one. I could see him lighting a big cluster of flourescent lamp tubes and collecting the resultant light with photocell strips and running a small electric motor to turn the wheels of his machine.
You wouldn't happen to remember where in this forum, would you?
Quote from: mscoffman on December 15, 2007, 03:38:47 PM
Some people talk about trying to use a Van De Graf generator for this purpose rather than wimshurst , but a Van De Graf generator uses a high voltage power supply to inject static charges onto a belt. This makes the resultant stored voltages even higher which simply makes downconverting to low voltages much harder.
None of my Van de Graaff generators work this way. Just a motor to turn the belt. A comb at the bottom to pull charge from a bottom bowl/box and another comb at the top to put charge on the top dome. Maybe there are some commercial use ones that supplement with a high voltage power supply but that's not normally the case.
Quote from: mscoffman on December 15, 2007, 03:38:47 PM
So the design of the testatika machine while quite advanced for 1924 or whenever it was initially
Sorry, normally I wouldn't nit but try around the 1970s and 1980s. It wasn't that long ago (for us who were around then.)
-Steve
http://rimstar.org
Quote from: sm0ky2 on December 16, 2007, 09:41:07 AM
One idea comes from a book written by some guy that claims to have witnessed the Testatika machine in action.
Which book is this? I'm always on the lookout for more testatika witness reports.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org
@ steve
sorry, this escapes me now, i found that device years ago, and went on an info binge, then let it go for a while, only to return to it later....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Has anyone tried to electrolyze water, or other chemicals with static sparks??
perhaps we can use it as a catalyst in a known reaction, then extract the energy through alreayd perfected processes. ??
Hi all.....static is a very strange thing...
If i wear a nylon jumper when my whimhurst is going...then i feel a pulse in my jumper when the machine sparks, a real pulse like an impact.
If i connect an electrode to an object, then there is a cold wind coming out of the object, quite strong.
At the moment i'm making 2 LARGE caps...nearly done..had some sparks last night..
I have a few ideas i want to try myself ???
Scotty
www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TVN-3SPGXP4-61&_user=10&_coverDate=04%2F10%2F1997&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=d6159700604925019876ba6f23e50c03
(http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TVN-3SPGXP4-61&_user=10&_coverDate=04%2F10%2F1997&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=d6159700604925019876ba6f23e50c03)
and
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TVC-3VS8J70-9&_user=10&_origUdi=B6TVN-3SPGXP4-61&_fmt=high&_coverDate=01%2F29%2F1996&_rdoc=1&_orig=article&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=2b8c00d73e8d7ce22cd60aa765708ab7 (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TVC-3VS8J70-9&_user=10&_origUdi=B6TVN-3SPGXP4-61&_fmt=high&_coverDate=01%2F29%2F1996&_rdoc=1&_orig=article&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=2b8c00d73e8d7ce22cd60aa765708ab7)
I think Ed was right all along.
Search for PCM or pulsed current multiplier. See the tpu thread under otto's. Gives the name of the patent as well and a google book exerp to read up on. Built a 4 stage and it works good, so on to a ten stage unit.
thaelin
@ All
I was reading through the GrandicsIE73.pdf document mentioned in the "First electrical power output from a Pyramid" thread:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,695.msg59939.html#msg59939
http://www.freeenergynews.com/Directory/Pyramid/GrandicsIE73.pdf
I noticed a circuit in the document for converting ESD random impulses into an
AC voltage sine waveform...Wow!!! I guess there might be a connection to the stories of ancient Egypt being taught by advanced civilizations! :o
So I thought of the "Source of energy, Testatika" thread and read through it and didn't see this document mentioned here so I thought I would post this information in case it might fit as part of the ESD to AC conversion puzzle.
Quote from GrandicsIE73.pdf:
Atmospheric electrostatic discharge (ESD) impulses are
random and of short duration (nanosecond range) as well as
of wide frequency of occurrence. Antennas capable of handling
similar short-pulse waveforms can be found in radar
systems, where they are called the pyramidal horn antennas.
Intriguingly, popular scientific literature describes inexplicable
electromagnetic phenomena under scaled-down replicas
of the Great Pyramid of Giza.12 These phenomena
showed a variability that made its interpretation difficult.
We hypothesized that these findings were possibly due to
natural fluctuations in the atmospheric electrostatic field
detected by the GPG as a time domain, wideband antenna.
Therefore, we have investigated whether an antenna modeled
on the GPG would capture ESD impulses and if these
random impulses could subsequently be converted into an
AC voltage sine waveform of predictable frequency. This
would allow a direct conversion of the potential energy of an
electrostatic field into an alternating current, making atmospheric
electrostatic charges a possible source of commercial
power generation.
Thanks,
Paul
........edited
@motorcoach1
Thats wonderful that your a builder I am as well, but as you say you have built 3 machines and building more, but do any of them work? There is a simple premise most follow, you cannot build what you do not understand, this is true in every sense, building is pointless unless you do the basic experiments proving the concept has merit and understand what you are doing. Personally I welcome any information persons are willing to offer, learning and understanding are the first steps not the last.
I find some interresting video about the same guys that make the rotor magnet showed yesturday
He his able to convert the static electricity to mechanical by moving a rotor http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZVCXAxoIDo&NR=1
maybe its one of the way to convert the spark in some usable energy
@ Theone - those are some cool beans vids , the No# 7 vid the guy has big balls putting his hand that close to the spark hahahaha at that voltage it will stop your heart and make you into a statue real quick. He has some great working machines to play with.
@ Allcanadian - when i read about the machine I was working on another project and was studying atmospheric conditions and anomalies in the static feild. this is most helpfull in understanding the appradious and Teslas radient energy. in building and testing parts of the machine and reading all I can , Steven was most helpful in this area of the disks on his web site. now that I have tested and look more closely at the photos of the working machine I get better understanding of it's workings. The thing I had not taken into concideration was the tower in the back of the mounting of the disks and the bearing mounts. now I belive in this post or tower holding the disks , is the drive system and ,maybe a belt like a vanDegraph like setup to increase the ion output to the center of the disks. if this is the case then on my next test I'll use blank CD's as collestors on the bearing hubs as collectors to the large flat disk area. In the photos of the working Model from Testanika I noticed that the front disk has no shaft mount so this is brought from the tower as the bearing mount and the back disk floats on it own bearing , so to spin in the oppisit direction. the front disk has a flat hub and a grid in front of it , this may be a ion feed to the center as the belt in the back feeds the ion feild to the center hubs and holds them in the 0 point vortex that is created like in a tornato ( high + charge ) the negative charges flow to the outer regins of the disks at this point (natural migration of the partical) I hope this may help you in your design and expieriments. At this time I'm only involved in getting the best results from the Wimhurst part of the machine. and the next step will be the convertion of the static feild to useable tension. as soon as my glass gets here I'll be building the latenjars and testing them seperatly , I don't want to accidently electricute meself :o that would mess up my whole day. Mike PS i'll post my results as I move on, Thank you
Quote from: sm0ky2 on December 09, 2007, 07:04:33 PM
Whalla - you can easily see that you've put into the machine approx 1 / 216th of the required energy to melt the stel balls.
(using the 8g steel balls i melted with a 9v battery)
now, obviously the energy is comming from the ions in the air, and the energy i put into the system was from the 9v battery, but the energy comming OUT of the system is exponentially greater tan the energy put in.
Dont make this more complicated than it truly is. The ONLY reason we dont use these mahcine to power the entire planet is we cannot figure out how to convert it into usable electricity,. the stuff sparks jumps, burns, and leaks out all over the place.
If anyone knows how methernithia is converting this stuff
If you can do what you just said, then you can use a 9 volt battery to melt a large number of iron balls, dropping the molten metal into water, convert steam to electricity, and remove the cooled metal and melt it again (use the same metal in perpetuity). You have already achieved OU. Even if this steam generator is only 0.4% efficient. (Considering the first reaction 21,600% efficient)
The reason why we can't figure out how methernithia is converting this stuff is because they probably aren't.
Next time in Switzerland I will personally drive to methernithia and check to see if their homes are connected to the grid. If so, this is a hoax folks.
Great ideas though.
@spooner
Melting metal balls ? I don't think so ???, fortunately a man named Nikola Tesla solved this problem you seem to be having on November 3, 1891. I want you to think about that date 1891, that's 117 years ago, this problem of what to do with a high potential "static" DC source was solved 117 years ago! I have attached 2 pictures, one is Teslas original patent and the other is modified so everyone can understand how easy this is. In the modified picture the inductance can be a step down transformer OR an electric motor. In case your not getting this I will explain, the HV jumps the spark gap into a resonant tank circuit (C, C)and oscillates (AC), the energy flow is unidirectional into the tank circuit, the tank circuit frequency is determined by the values L (inductance) and C (small capacitance), an LC resonant circuit. What no one has considered is the DURATION of the AC oscillation in this circuit, how long a single HV impulse would oscillate back and forth in this circuit, remember we are dealing with tens of thousands of volts.
Now tell me how technologically advanced we are, tell me how everything is understood, I don't think so---- we have a lot to learn.
Quote from: TheOne on January 05, 2008, 12:04:15 PM
I find some interresting video about the same guys that make the rotor magnet showed yesturday
He his able to convert the static electricity to mechanical by moving a rotor http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZVCXAxoIDo&NR=1
maybe its one of the way to convert the spark in some usable energy
Do you have any more info on this youtube video you mentioned? It seems the user removed the video.
Here is a patent that mentions static conversion using a rotor
http://india.bigpatents.org/view/27904/d1edbf7f239
gesssb hhoo well some one had to figure it iut for them NASA guys harhar
Hello group,
Very impressive flow happening here!
Adressing the thoughts of converting the static E field to a usable current that can deliver E x I = P actual power to a closed circuit.
I would consider the output cases on the two outer sides of the device very carefully, not as capacitors but more like Joe Cells or Morray tubes.
The spacing between tubes can become very criticle for the transfer of torsion operating between them.
Somewhere I saw a diagram of these portraid as concentric rings of even spacing, with a stack of toroidal coils down the center at even spacing. As this begins to resemble more the Morray tube with concentric tubes at specific distance, I feel it note worthy to point out some of the research I am involved in. The laden jar idea reflects a capacitor without regard to the spacing between concentric tubes as having an actual effect on the torsion of the system. Setting the E field into a rotation would seem the only way, but also possibly setting the torsion at the correct angle to interact with the voltage to produce an actual rotating EM wave of some kind.
You guys have identified the keys here I believe, and even something as simple as a current transformer can be used to produce incredible high voltages, with no ability to deliver current to a load. This is a donut of ferrite around a conductor with coils of wire on it, with opened circuit the voltage will skyrocket.
http://magnetism.fateback.com/Matrix.htm (http://magnetism.fateback.com/Matrix.htm)
Here is some data we have collected on spacing that gives some kind of torsion effects yet to be conclusivly evaluated by combining it with voltage. I feel at this point that identification of the torsion field is one of the parts we are missing in the alternate energy field.
Hope this stimulates some more thought!
Thanks,
Dave L
Quote from: hartiberlin on April 17, 2007, 11:50:47 PM
the problem is, the background radiation is not that big here in earth to convert it
to Watts of power in a local point.
I'd say the neutrino radiation it's quite dense and powerful on Earth. The problem is that it's very hard to intercept neutrinos
Without charge and without mass neutrinos show hardly any interactions with matter and as a consequence they possess the enormous ability of penetration - as is well-known. They are said to participate in the ,,weak interaction", which should trigger a conversion of the concerned particles, which is their decay. Pauli already has postulated the neutrino 1930 theoretically, because the transition from a half-integer spin to an integer spin for the n0 decay otherwise wouldn't have been explicable.
Making a transmitter or a device that can capture neutrinos can prove quite a challenge since the neutrinos don't interact with anything because of their properties. However, the neutrino flux coming from the Sun (and not only) is quite large (67 billion neutrinos /cm^2) and can become a viable power source if correctly intercepted.
Quote from: Overmind on July 27, 2009, 06:03:16 AM
However, the neutrino flux coming from the Sun (and not only) is quite large (67 billion neutrinos /cm^2) and can become a viable power source if correctly intercepted.
Maybe this is why the earth inner mass never gets cold and builds Lava and
the earth is growing in size cause this huge mass of the earth is slowing down the Neutrinos
and converts them to mass and heats the earth´s inner mass up ?
Replying to Hartiberlin & Overmind, I have to say that I have focus my researches with the hypothesis that maybe the origin & source of the energy came from the neutrino radiation, and what is called the "Waterfall of electrons", which supposedly takes place inside the coil of the linden experiment. What we have really clear by the way, is that supposing that the result of the Linden Experiment is true, and lets have faith and assume that, and that's it, the 700 V output, we are pretty sure that the effect should be a resonant effect.
By the way, I truly recommend to everyone, the lecture of Scalar Waves by Konstantin Meyl, which you can read herehttp://www.scribd.com/doc/24773695/Konstantin-Meyl-Scalar-Waves (http://www.scribd.com/doc/24773695/Konstantin-Meyl-Scalar-Waves). According to professor's Meyl researches, the electron is a spherical vortex potential, which 511 Kv fall potential from its center to its surface. That's why upper this limit, the High Voltage Transmission presents deep losses, due to the fact that every electron under this high voltage falls in ring like vortex that physics known as the beta decay (it's not exactly this, but for our purpose would be). Just in this crucial moment, and that's the point of what I want to say, the electrons transforms themselves into neutrinos or scalar waves, and thats is the sea of energy in which we all live, & the truly manifestation of the Radiant Energy. This high voltages are pretty easy to find in the surface of the stars, & it seems that the plasma have certain resonant property, & could absorb part of this "elusives" particles. That's why Earth's inner core presents always this high temperatures, which is the most by the way mysterious unsolved problem in geology, and that why the earth grown & grown, as Hartiberlin referred in a previous post, due to this neutrino radiation (aprox 66 billion neutrinos per cm2).
According to professor Meyl, Scalar waves have a critical point of resonance. That's why the seek of this frequencies, became crucial. ABSOLUTELY CRUCIAL. I beg to anyone who read this post, to give certain kind of information about this possible frequencies.
Some clues.
Neutrinos are practically massless. Contrary, electrons are 0,511 Mev, & all this energy should be taken over by the neutrino, according to E = mc2 Einstein relation. But is not clear enough, that if in this conversion, the Einstein's relation is applicable for the electron-neutrino conversion, but also vice-versa, that's it, what we are looking for, the desired neutrino to electron conversion, or what is called "the waterfall of electrons".
That's why I concluded that if these assumptions are true, the seek of free energy from magnetic motors, like Newman's, Bedinis etc... became absolutely ruled out, not only for the low COPs they present, but also for the amount of batteries needed, in order to catch the radiant spikes, & store them as negative energy. You may wonder why I'm so sure about this. Well, I have to say that I saw a machine constructed apparently under this principle, in the house of a very enigmatic old men, in the remote town of Cehegin, in Spain. This man, named Honorio Perez Picasso, who presumes in his own words to be practically illiterate, construct a very bizarre machine, that gives and incredible outputs of three-phase 380 Volts of al least 15 Kw & probably much more. This old men, didn't gave to me many clues, or I must say, no clue, or relevant information (typic off all the inventors, keep their secrets to the tomb). If someone's interest in this case, could see this links (in spanish);
http://www.lusired.net/ea4eiu/index.htm?docs%5Cvar%5Ccurios%5CRF-AC.txt
http://www.cochevolador.es/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=36
Sorry for my horrible english, but I mailed from Barcelona, & the amount of information, the staggering difficulty to resume & to understand these, added to my difficulty to translate all of this in a language which is not my native language at all, makes me literally "burn my head".
I hope you will understand me.
At last, Pg 323 325 of scalar waves, regarding to Testatika.
15.9 The Testatika
An electrostatic device, which produces open electric field lines, is situated in Linden in
Switzerland. It optically is very imposing and belongs to a religious community, which
has called it Testatika and is of the opinion that it is a free energy converter.
Inexplicably the Testatika does not serve the community, which generates their electric
power conventionally and to a large extent by itself, as a source of energy. Instead the 2
kW device only very seldom is demonstrated for special occasions or to select groups of
visitors. The religious community after that explains the astonished observers humanity
not yet is mature for the technology.
Perhaps just the opposite is correct and the technology not yet is mature. According to my
personal assessment such an electrostatic device in principle is entirely unsuitable for the
continuous operation.
It can be expected that the open field lines sooner or later will interrelate with the
electricity of the air and thunderstorms are being attracted by the infernal machine so long
until lightning strikes and the demonstration with that has finished. That's why the
Testatika may be switched on only for a short time, only at sure weather situation and not
too humid air, and many a registered visitor has been sent away without having seen the
"thunderstorm machine".
As an object of demonstration and study the Testatika however is well suited. Alone the
circumstance that no cable leads to the device and it nevertheless releases energy in the
order of magnitude of 1 till 2 kW, surprises all visitors. At least the impression is mediated
as if the machine would violate the law of conservation of energy, which is not correct.
The Testatika is similar to an induction machine, which works with friction electricity.
Thereby the unlikely charged bodies do not have to unconditionally touch and rub at each
other, it already is sufficient, if they are brought in the immediate vicinity of each other. In
the case of the Testatika the electrostatics of two against one another rotating discs is
taken off by brushes.
The excitation energy presumably is taken out of the natural E-field, which just like that
can amount to 200 Volts per meter (see chapter 2.9). The large diameter of 80 cm of the
discs and their bad conductivity (acrylic glass) permit this conclusion. The charge taken
off by the brushes afterwards is temporarily stored in two capacitors of 2 Farad at 300
Volt, so-called Leyden jars. This far one actually is reminded of a Wimhurst generator, in
which the energy is supplied the system by turning the disc. Large powers cannot be
drawn by that. Plans to build such an induction machine by yourself have been
published.
In the case of the Testatika however two discs are used and by hand stimulate to rotate
oppositely. This rotational energy in this case isn't used to produce power, otherwise the
discs quickly would stand still again, but that doesn't happen.
Until now apparently no-one has discovered the secret, which is kept strict by the
members of the community. In my opinion the energy situation on our earth however is
too serious, as that we would be able to afford playing hide-and-seek and egoistical
secretiveness.
15.10 The secret of the Testatika
The crucial point is the opposite direction of rotation of both discs. If we assume the static
earth electric field is the cause and serves as an excitation field, then as an effect a field
arises, which stands perpendicular to that. The axial component now points out of the
centre of the disc.
In the case of only one disc the field lines in front and behind the disc again are closed, so
that no open lines can form. With one disc or with two discs rotating in the same direction
hence no unknown charges can be attracted.
In the case of two oppositely rotating discs however shows one component along the axis
of rotation to the observer, that of the other disc exactly in the opposite direction. In that
way between both discs a pole is ,,pinned", which no longer is able to close all field lines
on the outside around the machine. Thus open field lines and a, however incomplete,
unipolar arrangement are formed.
The charge carriers sucked from the electricity of the air as a result support the natural
electrostatics and speedy recharge the capacitors, even if up to 10 Amperes are taken out
by the consumers.
The ingenious thing of the machine is its extremely simple construction and the simple
concept.
If one includes the collected particles also in the balance sheet of energy, then it thus will
turn out that the law of conservation of energy is not violated at all. There thus can't be
talked of free energy. In this context the Testatika may rather be given as a
counterexample. Air ions are the carriers of the electricity of the air and not carriers of
free energy.
Negative air ions are indispensable for our welfare. One should only remember the first
men in space, who after the landing were pulled out of their capsule more dead than alive,
after they had to stay in the unhealthy atmosphere of the capsule for a longer period of
time. Only the installation of ionising devices for negative air ions made possible longer
staying in space.
The taking out of the air of negative ions hence is not unproblematic and not particularly
ecologically compatible. An atmosphere harmful to life is formed which Dr. Wilhelm
Reich has called DOR-state. He by the way has designed a Cloud-Buster, with which he
could take static electricity, forming above the desert sand, out of the air. In that way the
negatively charged rain clouds no longer are repelled and driven away. Reich has tested
his weather machine 1954 in the desert of Arizona. After he had freed the atmosphere of
the ,,DOR-strain", as he expressed himself, in the desert area the atmospheric humidity
steadily increased from 15% up to 95%, there grew prairie grass and everything started to
turn green, and eventually after many years for the first time rain fell again.
Static electricity, as far as the right polarity is chosen, may conditionally be used for the
mechanics of rain making. For free energy concepts it however isn't suitable. Already
Nikola Tesla has pointed to the circumstance that our hopes will be in vain if the free
energy would be of static nature (see fig. 9.5). He in his speech, which he gave 1891
before the AIEE, has left no doubt that free energy exists, which is kinetic and with that
energy technically usable for us,.
Chapter 16 will be occupied solely with this case.
>
Don't know if anyone mentioned it already, but could it be that the Testatika simply puts its electrostatic charges via a spark gap into a tesla coil (such as the pictures of jorge resines show), transforming it into high frequency and therefore probably getting enough to light a bulb?
Or would that even work in theory?
Quote from: gauschor on January 11, 2010, 09:17:08 AM
Don't know if anyone mentioned it already, but could it be that the Testatika simply puts its electrostatic charges via a spark gap into a tesla coil (such as the pictures of jorge resines show), transforming it into high frequency and therefore probably getting enough to light a bulb?
Or would that even work in theory?
Sure, but some step in the sequence you mention has to tap into an energy source otherwise it wouldn't keep running.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org http://wsminfo.org
So, long time no actualisation here... I have investigated some pictures again and tried to
Determine what is *not* important on the device regarding conversion into electricity: (sorry, this stuff is maybe old for most of you)
Linden Experiment: I think everyone has read Potters claim that he thinks the Testatika uses an electrode avalanche effect. But of course this is no big help, since an avalanche effect takes place already if you'll get a spark breakthrough between 2 electrodes. There is plenty of avalanches in this whole device...
The one possible additional function I can think of is that the cable wound around the magnet shall show that Baumann uses a resonant circuit. But then again.. isn't this effect only for smoothing the electricity? Therefore it could be "skipped".
This U-shaped magnet with Copper/Plexiglass/Alu capacitors in between the latest Testatika pictures could be "irrelevant" to the function of the Testatika because: the very first Testatika worked without such U-shaped magnets. The yellow marked areas in the picture below are only for driving the disc by electrostatic push and pull principles (besides that the electrostatic charge is also the power source).
Also you certainly remember Potters picture showing about 20 cylindrical aluminium +1 copper sheet in the large can. But then look again at the very first Testatika device: I don't think that Baumann put 20 sheets into this small cylinder. It doesn't fit in my opinion. Instead he put in something small with a principle we don't understand but which amplifies the current. Maybe a row of magnet rings in it causing quenched spark gaps (like Potter has shown on his sketch)?
To determine which parts of the device are really important:
The main conversion must take place in these 2 mystic cylinders. If you look on the left can you see some copper through the grid, so there could be a huge transformer coil. But if you look on the right cylinder you don't see a coil, but somehow dark hexagon like openings under the grid. The question is what happens really in them?
What I want to say by that paragraph is, that I guess, all the later Testatikas are only improved versions and make people more confused than necessary. It is the small Testatika that must be disclosed first. Although this is not possible so easy...
I'm adding: I always wondered how it can work that you produce 1 pole (+) on the left can and the other pole (-) on the other can. If you had a common step down transformer in 1 cylinder that would be charged via a sparkgap you would get AC as the result. So with a rectifier you would already receive DC. But what for is the second can then?
Quote from: gauschor on March 23, 2010, 09:30:33 AM
I'm adding: I always wondered how it can A that you produce 1 A (+) on the left can and the other pole (-) on the other can. If you had a common step down transformer in 1 cylinder that would be charged via a sparkgap you would get AC as the result. So with a rectifier you would already receive DC. But what for is the second can then?
I can see the reason for two cans and in fact was thinking about the problem this morning. But it has to do with my particle creation via vacuum energy idea:
http://rimstar.org/sdenergy/vacuum_energy
and so there is no rectifier or step down transformer.
To do some basic tests of my idea I realized that Aaron Murakami's EV Gray tube circuit, matches exactly the process that would happen if my idea were right. See the first attached diagram below, Aaron's circuit modified to use a Van de Graaff machine. According to my idea, C2's voltage must be built up so that the grid (the dashed lines beside the rod in the tube) will have sufficient negative charge so that when the spark gap between the two rods fires, a bunch more negative particles are created from vacuum energy in the grid's holes. But then this sudden increased negative charge on the grid causes an arc between the grid and the rod and C2 is discharged. This also results in a large current in the coil. However, we've lost the voltage on C2 and have to build it up again before the effect can repeat.
What'd be nice is if we could have a circuit that allows the effect without C2 becoming discharged as a result. Basically we want to isolate the vacuum energy side of the circuit from the driving circuit. The two cans of the testatika may be doing that. See the second attached diagram below.
In this case the output cylinders are electrically isolated from anything else in the cans. According to my current idea, under control of the other stuff, one of the output cylinders would have positive charges created from vacuum energy while the other output cylinder would have negative charges created from vacuum energy. When this happens there would be current through the load. Meanwhile, the other stuff would retain it's charge - though it would of course be temporarily redistributed during the particle creation event.
So the purpose of the cans may be for purposes of isolating the output flow part of the circuit from the driving part.
More on the EV Gray circuit here (and more to come):
http://rimstar.org/sdenergy/ev_gray/ev_gray_van_de_graaff_01.htm
More on particle creation in the testatika here:
http://rimstar.org/sdenergy/vacuum_energy/particle_creation_in_the_testatika.htm
-Steve
http://rimstar.org http://wsminfo.org
I want to hijack this thread, because I'm thinking that this could be the source of energy from the thestatica. Yesterday I stepped upon the "Magnet Resonance Amplifier" http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Magnetic_Resonance_Amplifier From all theories I've seen, this one looks like the most probable as the source of energy of the Thestatika.
If you read the article you see, that they claimed to gain about 5 times output compared to the input. Someone also claimed to achieved 3KW out of 290milliWatts using an input power of only 10V AC having about 29µA, which remembers me of the Thestatika a lot. If you ever tried to measure output power from a Wimshurst machine, it's about in the same area of microAmperage. This could fit perfectly.
Also I remember that Baumann was a clockbuilder (hint: he has knowledge on how to use Quarz Crystals, Piezoelectricity/Frequencies) and there are rumors which claimed that he gained deep knowledge of magnets by a "Magnet-Guru" => both parts combined he probably found out what is claimed to be the "Magnetic Resonance Amplifier" (MRA).
I think there are 2 ways to build a Thestatika out of it:
1. Either you use a piezo crystal the way it is shown in the MRA sketch
2. Or you need to emulate the piezo crystal via an amount of spools and capacitors
I don't know which one he used, and also it could be that I am misinterpreting something on my associations shown on the picture attached. In my interpretation I think that the electrostatic charge is mostly used for driving the discs (using electrostatic attraction and repulsion), an nothing more. Only a small amount of electrostatic charge is collected from the discs and used to create a frequency by using some (not understandable) arrangements of coils and capacitors. As you know - when collecting the electrostatic charge it's the same like a small spark gap, although mostly not visible. A spark gap always has major frequencies in it (so it's not only 60 Hertz e.g. 1 Hertz/Segment of the disc), but much more. In the sketch below it is suggested to use a signal of 20-40Khz. In my theory he then either uses a piezo crystal or an "Emulation" construction to create the same effect like the piezo with a certain frequency. This frequency enables to tap the energy from the magnets, therefore causing stronger induction than usual. What exactly happens with this Piezo - I don't know, but it looks very essential.
Please feel free to add your comments. I am currently considering to build this MRA, but must find the appropriate parts yet...
i'm attaching a crude diagram to help explain this a little.
in their simplest form, as described by Paul, these components appear to serve an important function, not only as the devices "leyden jars/caps" but also in limiting the voltage maximums, and boosting the available current flow.
now, when i first approached this problem, i had made all sorts of falce assumptions concerning the induced polarities within the different layers of the cans.
experimentation has since proven that the cans must be all one polarity. a negative can, and a positive can.
the +/- labeling is in regards to the direction of current in his circuit through the machine. Thus the polarity marked at the center input of the cans is their respective polarity.
essentially, the center of the coil is the initial charged-conductor.
this has a voltage and charge-capacitance function, which places the first liminting boundary on the incomming spark.
this is where, not only size, but relative/proportional surface area comes into play. When you place a charged conductor in close proximity to an uncharged conductor, it will induce a charge in the secondary conductor, equalling/balancing itself with the original charge.
there is an ionization of the air between the two conductors,
(a plasma forms above a certain threshhold)
and energy is transfered from one conductor to the other through this ionized pathway.
this process is important because, each concentric ring through the can has a higher charge-capacitance than the ring before it.
meaning it freely accepts the ionization from its previous ring.
but also, the larger surface area allows the conductor to discharge more rapidly (increasing the current)
so the relative voltage sits at around or slightly less than the charge-potential of the center conductor (coil). each successive layer will induce a similar charge, with more available current.
what interesting to note is that once the initial induction occurs,
then cans don't "discharge", and it appears that the current flow is not comming from the actual charge conductors (leyden jars) but from the source of the actual charge separation, through the electrostatic device. meaning that the ionic path established equally at both intput and outputs, is allowing the current to flow, irrespective to charge/discharge/sparks/ect..
in fact, im prepared to support a hypothesis, that when the machine is operational, there are no sparks at all anywhere in the system,
that it is operating under a unique condition of a steady ionized-flow into, through and out of the machine.
tapping straight into the source of the charge imbalance the machine is harvesting.
the only sparks that should manifest themselves, are when you first plug into an external circuit. because the rest of the machine maintains a conductive pathway like a solid wire of ionic-current
take two baloons, same size, charge one and hang it next to the other.
not touching, but near. and one will induce a like charge in the other, they will both begin to push away from one another.
now lets say that these ballons had a charge-capacity of 700V
so you charge one baloon to 700v, place it next to the other,
the baloons will create an ionized current path between them, and both find an equilibrium at approx 350V, now if this ionized air is maintained, both baloons will discharge simultaneously and twice as much current would flow out of the discharged baloon as it normally would
charge-capacitance is not necessiarily affected by mass,. but more-so by surface area.
a larger surface area can hold more "charge". this is effectively measured in voltage, because the charged conductor is acting as a capacitor or sorts.
current only comes into play when you are discharging. now, what if you aren't discharging? but rather constantly sustaining the charge, like the inside and outside of a van-de-graff globe?
what is missing from the methernitha videos? when you look at or hear recordings of these devices, and compare them to every other device that resembles it? the pigeon, the whimshurst, hte electrophorous, ect..... what is missing?
Sparks. popping, flashing, the periodic "zap" "zap" "zap"
this is because theres no charge/discharge cycle, the entire system sets up an ionic flow from the disk collectors to the output terminals.
so in the collection of ions, it is a lot like Wimshurst/pigeon machines
but it the circuitry, it is much more like the direct-ion flow that is utilized in the Van-De-Graff machines.
think of the cans in terms of multiple, or a multi-layered capacitor(s).
Quote from: sm0ky2 on May 23, 2011, 11:47:20 AM
take two baloons, same size, charge one and hang it next to the other.
not touching, but near. and one will induce a like charge in the other, they will both begin to push away from one another.
now lets say that these ballons had a charge-capacity of 700V
so you charge one baloon to 700v, place it next to the other,
the baloons will create an ionized current path between them, and both find an equilibrium at approx 350V, now if this ionized air is maintained, both baloons will discharge simultaneously and twice as much current would flow out of the discharged baloon as it normally would
Hi sm0key2,
I found your post a very interesting read (read it 3 times). However I don't agree with the balloon examples: if you put 2 balloons with different charge next to each other they will attract each other and not repell.
There indeed will happen an ionized path between them though since they want to discharge (slowly) against each other to achieve equilibrium.
But they will only repell each other if they actually touch each other (which will make equilibirum) and both still have excess charge.
The remaining hypothesis from your post sounds very logical though. So these sheets in the cans are to create a potential between each layer. And each new layer will rise the potential from the previous one.
Then you would need to put the load between the most outer sheet of can#1 to the most outer sheeter of can#2?
If "yes" this probably would not instantly discharge (the porblem we have on the wimshurst), because the inner core never loses its charge. I still wonder if the charge would be maintained through the remaining sheets... or if the potential would continuosly lose its power when a bulb is attached.
Because when a bulb is attached - I assume - the 2 outer sheets always have a potential of 0 against each other... or maybe the potential even rises.... hmmm I can only guess and speculate now...
I know you guys don't know me well but I was active on another forum till my banning. I wanted to join this discussion because out of all of this threads points it occurred to me that I might have some insight to this discussion.
I see everyone discussing positive and negatives as distinct units. I might assert that you are in error when you state this. What if there is only one charge polarity of positive and only one. It would seem that some have mistaken the point that polarity is for. If there is only one polarity of positive then it completely describes statics. You either have x units of positive or you have less. Take for example this reference. When working on the concept of the Tesla switch I learned that you can have a positive potential between two batteries and if these two batteries are of different scales or voltages you can drive your electronics between only the positives of the batteries if the negatives are connected together.
Well this is my point I guess. What if the condensers in this example are just that. Two potential of like polarity (+) static but are of a different potential values to each other. Meaning surface charge area difference. The flow would be the same as from the example of the Tesla switch and one would not need any device to convert it since the two want to balance by natures law. It is in this balancing that we get the direction of flow and it stands to scrutiny from the many examples we know to be true about static interactions, just like in the balloon example that was stated earlier.
You are looking for a magic bullet to convert when I think there is none to be had. Also I believe we are seriously mistaken when we think there is a negative at all. In that respect it is all a matter of reference to each point. Example: point a has 1200 units of charge and point b has 2. when referenced together one looks to be positive and the other looks to be negative but in reality they are both positive just having a difference in value when compared to each other.
We do know that Tesla was able to design a system that used electricity to appear much like static discharges. His transformer was a great step in that direction.
I got this while I was researching Tesla and his effect.
Reference: http://www.tfcbooks.com/tesla/1892-02-03.htm
Figure 3 is the transformer but the whole thing is a good read.
I hope this helps you guys out. If not then I am sorry for intruding to your most excellent conversation...
One other thing of note if one wants to keep the unit from discharging then all one needs to do is let induction do it's job. Static induction works like regular induction but it is in reference to surface area and location of the source. Lets say you have a metal block and you expose it to a static source the side closest to the source will accumulate the positives that are trapped in the material to that side and the other side will indeed have a lowering of the positives making it appear to be negative. As long as a flow isn't established between the two (source and inductive material) it should stay negative on that side. I haven't figured that one out yet to utilize this process but it might be beneficial to this conversation.
jbignes5
<copy from a german thread>
Testatika:
As I said,
In one of the videos or interviews, but I think saying that NO magnets are in the 2 large containers (which
my guess would refute the moment), but it was said that the segments were magnetized in the rotating disk -
and that it would not work without the (of course this can also be related to the grid, so that without these
Would not work "lattice trapping"). Perhaps both are important.
Since the Thestatika has 60 segments, it would mean that the capacitor is charging 60x per second. This is important
so that sufficient current density for current devices is achieved.
But also in the film speaks Thestatika the speaker believes that the charges are "ordered" to be. it
------
The statement by Wolfgang reparations must never be forgotten:
"The Testatika is a high-frequency energy heat pump!"
My gut tells me that he and his team were on the right solution or not yet!
-------
Stefan Marinov was once told me on the phone when he was still alive and I had called him,
that are included in the back of the bottle Leidner 3kw machine loud rock crystals.
Which are then pulsed with high-voltage pulses and then emit beta radiation,
which in turn charges the Leyden jars capacitors.
One can think of it as if you skin with a hammer on the crystal
and by the beta radiation Radioactive decay doller then the hammer
is reflected.
This then leads to more energy than you for the food-high-voltage pulse
needs.
If the capacity of the Leyden jars large enough, then the voltage increases
in this capacity then continuously to between the high-voltage pulses and
You can then take a considerable current.
Watch the first few seconds of this vid the vanes are running in the electric field of a high voltage pulsed coil
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5hBsQBz7Nw
Quote from: dani1 on February 27, 2012, 05:05:09 PM
<copy from a german thread>
Testatika:
As I said,
In one of the videos or interviews, but I think saying that NO magnets are in the 2 large containers (which
my guess would refute the moment), but it was said that the segments were magnetized in the rotating disk -
and that it would not work without the (of course this can also be related to the grid, so that without these
Would not work "lattice trapping"). Perhaps both are important.
Since the Thestatika has 60 segments, it would mean that the capacitor is charging 60x per second. This is important
so that sufficient current density for current devices is achieved.
But also in the film speaks Thestatika the speaker believes that the charges are "ordered" to be. it
------
The statement by Wolfgang reparations must never be forgotten:
"The Testatika is a high-frequency energy heat pump!"
My gut tells me that he and his team were on the right solution or not yet!
-------
Stefan Marinov was once told me on the phone when he was still alive and I had called him,
that are included in the back of the bottle Leidner 3kw machine loud rock crystals.
Which are then pulsed with high-voltage pulses and then emit beta radiation,
which in turn charges the Leyden jars capacitors.
One can think of it as if you skin with a hammer on the crystal
and by the beta radiation Radioactive decay doller then the hammer
is reflected.
This then leads to more energy than you for the food-high-voltage pulse
needs.
If the capacity of the Leyden jars large enough, then the voltage increases
in this capacity then continuously to between the high-voltage pulses and
You can then take a considerable current.
the testatika take energy from the earth e.m.f. trough the scalar waves
How will you know it takes energy from scalar waves? Can you explain a little more, because this assumption sounds very fuzzy to me.
Maybe the only trick of the machine is, that they found a way to release static electricity as continuous flow and not by a short lightning (as is the nature of static electricity). Also I recall from a written interview that Baumann himself said that the trick is to NOT let the static energy discharge itself immediately.
Though I don't know how this could be achieved. If you put a resistor in the wire it has no influence because the static electricity omitts the resistor. The static charge seems to be on the surface of the wire, in comparison to the elcetricity from batteries, which provides the flow of energy within the wire itself.
Now if there was a way to convert the static energy from the surface into the wire, it might work... Maybe this could be achieved with the magic of magnets (there were at least 2 U-shaped magnets in the Testatika), but again how should this work? I could be entirely wrong too with my way of thinking though...
Very unfortunate that no one has ever revealed the principle of the Thestatika, because I believe this device is the only one out of hundreds of so claimed overunity devices which would actually work.
Quote from: gauschor on April 29, 2012, 05:32:41 AM
How will you know it takes energy from scalar waves? Can you explain a little more, because this assumption sounds very fuzzy to me.
For me the answer to this is easy. Other than the use of radioactive material (which I hope isn't the answer) what else but energy from scalar waves could account for the videos we see of 3kW continuously coming from the 3kW machine or 100W from the single disk small machine? Assuming it's not a hoax of course. (I tend to use the term vacuum energy but it's the same thing.)
Quote from: gauschor on April 29, 2012, 05:32:41 AM
Maybe the only trick of the machine is, that they found a way to release static electricity as continuous flow and not by a short lightning (as is the nature of static electricity). Also I recall from a written interview that Baumann himself said that the trick is to NOT let the static energy discharge itself immediately.
He could simply have been talking about one aspect of the machine. Since most people on seeing the testatika think Wimshurst machine where you do take electrons from the disks, he may have simply been saying that that's not the case with the testatika disks. That's the way I've always interpreted that. Plus, if you release the static electricity slowly then you don't get 3kW. Also, you had to supply the energy to build up that static electricity in the first place so that's not a solution as to how it works.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org/sdenergy/testa
Indeed, it could only be a part of the system. Also I have heard once that the electrostatics is only used to drive the discs (which is claimed in some video to have very very good bearings. Since the power of electrostatic attraction/repulsion are very weak this would be an indicator for it. And this is only possible (as well as another indicator) because the discs have no resistance, for the so called "Taster" do not touch the segments at all). Yeah, indeed the power could come from somewhere else. Or maybe they can produce scalar waves with the machine? I'm still not convinced that they take scalar waves from the earth, but rather produce them within the machine itself.
Btw. I just looked for a definition of scalar waves and found some article in peswiki which seems to be an interesting lecture for this evening: http://www.peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Tesla,_Meyl,_and_Jackson%27s_Wireless_Aetheric_Power_Transmission
I did read the initial post with the balloon example. These balloons works like an electric capacitor. I did happen to experiment with a doubble capacitor many years ago. This capacitor was extracted from some military equipment back in the early 90's. This psrticular capacitor was a doubble capacitor - two capacitors in one can. When I charged one, I could take energy out of the other.
The principles of build was 4 layers of aluminium foil (For a single capacitor you need 2 layers). I experimented with this 4 layer capacitor and found that I could use this capacitor as a DC transformer. One capacitor had approx 4uF and the other 10uf - in one unit. Depending on which capacitor I charged, the other capacitor had an output voltage approx equal to the difference in capacity.
However, I also found that the energy in = energy out (approx), and the output voltage dropped when loaded, and input current stabilized at a given value at constant input voltage. I cannot remember the actual readings for current and voltage.
Vidar
Quote from: gauschor on April 29, 2012, 05:32:41 AM
How will you know it takes energy from scalar waves? Can you explain a little more, because this assumption sounds very fuzzy to me.
Maybe the only trick of the machine is, that they found a way to release static electricity as continuous flow and not by a short lightning (as is the nature of static electricity). Also I recall from a written interview that Baumann himself said that the trick is to NOT let the static energy discharge itself immediately.
Though I don't know how this could be achieved. If you put a resistor in the wire it has no influence because the static electricity omitts the resistor. The static charge seems to be on the surface of the wire, in comparison to the elcetricity from batteries, which provides the flow of energy within the wire itself.
Now if there was a way to convert the static energy from the surface into the wire, it might work... Maybe this could be achieved with the magic of magnets (there were at least 2 U-shaped magnets in the Testatika), but again how should this work? I could be entirely wrong too with my way of thinking though...
Very unfortunate that no one has ever revealed the principle of the Thestatika, because I believe this device is the only one out of hundreds of so claimed overunity devices which would actually work.
Like Hendershot when apply one motor at the output ,that burnig out. the type of output current is the same: DC+HF component.the two frequency mixed together generated an third frequency in resonance with the E.E.M.F.The magnets are used to rectifing the flux.in ALL bauman's device have magnet. in the report of two engineer Sauder and Sniker Baumann make the capturing device with one magnet , one loop coil and two plates.probably the machine running in the adiacent room again.Bob Boyce said the flux operated in 100 feet of radius....
Quote from: Steven Dufresne on April 29, 2012, 09:20:48 AM
For me the answer to this is easy. Other than the use of radioactive material (which I hope isn't the answer) what else but energy from scalar waves could account for the videos we see of 3kW continuously coming from the 3kW machine or 100W from the single disk small machine? Assuming it's not a hoax of course. (I tend to use the term vacuum energy but it's the same thing.)
He could simply have been talking about one aspect of the machine. Since most people on seeing the testatika think Wimshurst machine where you do take electrons from the disks, he may have simply been saying that that's not the case with the testatika disks. That's the way I've always interpreted that. Plus, if you release the static electricity slowly then you don't get 3kW. Also, you had to supply the energy to build up that static electricity in the first place so that's not a solution as to how it works.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org/sdenergy/testa (http://rimstar.org/sdenergy/testa)
If you see the video of dieter dienst (d.d.interview luzi cathomen) at min 3:57 he ask about the cilindrical object in front.the KEY of the device is in that component!!! probably bifilar coil drived with 2 frequency.the first machine build of baumann in the jail is made from scrap material....The energy go down from the sky (remember the words of steven mark!!) and is colllectorized/ rectified from magnet and coil.only this.the problem is the correct frequencies for the magnetic collection.Started from electrostatic charge,run itself from motor drived with one part of the energy rectified from the upper cilindrical object (made from magnet and coil -like potentiometer- and 2 high power resistor for short out the spikes).the motor in the rear side probably had the armature build of aluminium for reduce the focoult currents.if you oriented the machine E/W it stop to work.WHY???? .........
Quote from: andrea76 on May 02, 2012, 05:12:52 PM
If you see the video of dieter dienst (d.d.interview luzi cathomen) at min 3:57 he ask about the cilindrical object in front.the KEY of the device is in that component!!! probably bifilar coil drived with 2 frequency.the first machine build of baumann in the jail is made from scrap material....The energy go down from the sky (remember the words of steven mark!!) and is colllectorized/ rectified from magnet and coil.only this.the problem is the correct frequencies for the magnetic collection.Started from electrostatic charge,run itself from motor drived with one part of the energy rectified from the upper cilindrical object (made from magnet and coil -like potentiometer- and 2 high power resistor for short out the spikes).the motor in the rear side probably had the armature build of aluminium for reduce the focoult currents.if you oriented the machine E/W it stop to work.WHY? ??? .........
Maybe its so simple that no one thinked about it, see that, its not related to testatika, http://www.angelfire.com/ak5/energy21/capacitorcharger.htm
but after re-seeing the [size=78%]video that stephan put today on youtube, I got this light up in my brain :) and re-thinking about it, I think all the small cylinders are just like car ignition coil that take up the high voltage and the current drop voltage and with the back-emf are returned as current, now how its connected its maybe as simple as this drawing from the link. Just the negative static side on the negative side of the coil and the positive static charge on the positive side of the coil, but as well something like a sparkplug or just spacing between wire to generate the spark. This can be all together in the small cylinder, the big cylinder are just big caps that is used to make the wheel turn using the current from maybe just one of the coil.[/size]
[size=78%]
[/size]
[size=78%]
[/size]
That is indeed an interesting article. That said, I have also tried to pulse a battery with sparks from my electrostatic device, but it wasn't successful in charging up the battery. Maybe I should have tested longer. I mean, there must be some truth to it, if it worked dozens of years ago. I also didn't use a large coil, but directly pulsed it from the Wimshurst device. Now I think the energy was way too less (maybe around 2 KV per spark and probably the charge had only pico or nano amperage) too charge the battery. A large coil would build up much more charge and would deliver much higher amperage per discharge. Obviously this is necessary anyway to charge a battery. I've read recently that today's battery chargers all work that way, like brutal stoneage: the device with more energy pushes its charge into the other device. So yeah, it actually makes sense to have good long antenna which will discharge a huge load and pushes it into the battery.
Though if the principle of the Thestatika was based on this they must have configured and perfectionized in remarkable way. For all in all the battery in the above mentioned article took at least 2-3 days to charge up again.
The article is good, I think its possible to do something on the line with a Wimshurst, I will for sure try it this summer but to many stuff to do right now, need to do one thing at the time :)[/size]
[/size]
With Wimshurst, I don't think you need a battery, the idea is to self run the device at first using sparkplug/wire space, ignition coil and caps, the testatika is a big device, its should generate a lot of static charge, I dont know the energy you can extract from it, maybe some but I dont think all the town where the testatika is located, is powered by only one machine, I beleive one can generate less then 1kw, prob few hundred watts. Unless they have made a very big one and the smaller one was just to show...[/size]
Some years ago I made a Wimshurst (actually not a Wimshurst, but a Toepler device with 1 disc) , which had 8 or 16 iron plate segments on the rotating disc. The plates were quite large with about 10x16 square centimeters. If you got electrocuted by touching this plate with a finger the pain was much stronger compared to my other device with small segments only. It really hurt, so be careful. The lightnings were only very short but once you saw it discharge you got a very thick intense lightning. I guess this would have charged up a battery.
It is as someone else described:
small segments create higher voltage / less amperage
large segments create lower voltage / higher amperage
Unfortunately the larger the segment is, the longer it takes to charge it. I wonder if this is essential in regards to the Thestatika: if a large coil is better to hold a charge or if you use metal sheets instead? I am not sure what they used in the Thestatika... sometimes it looks like they have huge coils in their mysterious cylinders, but on the other side it is told that had multiple perforated (copper?) sheets within these cylinders. It would actually make sense to use metal sheets only, because it would deliver more amperage. The one thing that is mysterious is, how could they charge the sheets so fast?
In the Thorny Way of Truth at pag 32 :" ..the small machine starting only when pointing in N/S direction,the bigger machine in any direction .May be the "mechanism" of conversion of the toroidal type?? ring of iron wire wrapped with copper coil?? inside the base??
You are actually reading Marinov. That is good. Remarkable really.
Testatika is not an electrostatic machine. That is Baumann's big Red Herring.The Testatika is full of edges and sharp points and metal close to other metal.
Every sharp point, every edge of a static machine limits its ability to collect and gather charge, except those edges and points of the pickups and neutralizers. The reason a Bonetti machine works so much better than a Wimshurst is because the segments of a Wimshurst machine have sharp edges, lots of them, and thus limit the voltage that a segment's charge can attain before blowing it off as corona. Bonetti machines have no segments, and the best Wimshurst machines have the segments covered with a coat of heavy varnish except where the brushes make contact.
The advantage of segments and contact brushes like Wimshurst has is that the machine is "self starting". It does not need any charge to start because of the direct contact. Bonettis do not have contact pickups or segments so they need a little initial charge to start. This can be from friction rubbing, or even .... from a little ionizing radiation from a radioactive rock. But the Bonetti machine will make much higher voltage and higher current than the equivalent Wimshurst machine of the same size and same operating RPM.
@andrea: thanks for the book upload, I've never seen that book before. Gonna take a read...
@TinselKoala: I tried to build a Bonetti some years ago (it doesn't exist anymore), but couldn't get it charged most of the time. The reason for that was the cool environment. Obviously not something influence devices like. But when I got it to run once I also recall "hearing" a "mighty" an continuous discharge flow. Much more awesome than the one from Wimshurst. I definitely need to build one again. The fact that it works frictionless will also be positive in many aspects.
Edit: is there a clear construction plan for the Bonetti device somewhere? I am not 100% sure of the setup, and wires... just by the looks of some youtube videos. Can't find anything else about it :-\
@gauschor: I made my first Bonetti machine following the outlined plans in the book "Home Made Lightning" by R. A. Ford. I've made two more since then incorporating some improvements of my own. They work great ! The basic layout and principle of operation is the same as the Wimshurst, but with corona combs instead of contact brushes and of course no sectors on the disks.
They can be a bit hard to start if you don't know the trick, and of course any static machine works poorly in the damp. Cold is fine... the best is really cold really dry, but who wants to play with static in those conditions... heh....
I'll be glad to give advice for your new machine! I know some things even RA Ford didn't.
I used to use an ordinary blow drier on low heat to dry off the machine and the motors and such for demonstrations. Be Prepared! I was able to demonstrate the Dirod and some motors in the middle of a San Francisco rainstorm once, by gently drying the apparatus just before the demo.
Here is one of my Bonettis with the spark globes removed, powering an electrostatic Tesla turbine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ir9RIsXzmzY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ir9RIsXzmzY)
And here's an overview of the parts, and a few sparks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYGFqkXjwZc
testatika propaganda video 1984 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=od79uhhVRIs&list=PLB6CEF0B98872C91E&feature=plpp_play_all (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=od79uhhVRIs&list=PLB6CEF0B98872C91E&feature=plpp_play_all)
The testatika has a high voltage coil in the center of the rotating wheel
Definitely such a coil is used. I've not searched yet for the specific phrase "high voltage coil" / ignition coil / spark coil, as I always had the usual transformer logic in my head. After using a quick search I can see on the image below that it looks slightly different, but still applies to usual way a transformer works.
I am just amazed, that I stepped on a picture which looks exactly like the 2 cylinders of the Testatika...
Now the question still is, how can one transform the high voltage back? ... I could only get "power" from the electrostatic potential, by discharging them against the other pole. But the spark impulses are way too low to generate enough amperage when sending it through a transformer.
Also the charge only seems to be on the surface instead of "within the wire". Don't know, but maybe the Methernita found a way to "integrate" the surface charge directly into the wire via some magical magnet construction (as seen on the Testatika) and thereby they received a power, which was almost like one from a battery.
If there are voltages over 1 kV anywhere in a Testatika I would be completely amazed. I doubt seriously if the spacings and materials used could stand off more than a couple of hundred volts, really. Certainly it is impossible for a machine with metal parts in close juxtaposition like the Testatikas to have truly high voltages on or near the disks, like 20 kV of an automotive ignition coil or the hundreds of kV of a Wimshurst or Bonetti machine.
Not only that, but I have it on good authority that the smallest Testatika can be held in the hands while working to power a load. I've talked to someone who visited Methernitha many years ago when Baumann was still doing demonstrations and he saw this done with the smallest machine. No extreme high voltages, like in a static machine, are possible if this is true.
I've read the PDF now (I will read parts of it again...), which was quite insightful.
What was new for me, was the fact, the small machine had no crank at all to turn the wheel by hand. All Wimshurst devices have such a crank/coupling to the main rotor. Needless to say that this causes a lot of friction. Too much. It kills any attempt to get the rotor self-run. In fact I was also annoyed in my own experiments by this matter and wished the disc could run without the crank. And now I've read in this PDF, that the small device does indeed run without any coupling. It rotates freely. Marinov just needed to push the rotor 1-3 times with his finger and then it would continue by itself.
I think it makes sense to agree with his observation that the disc of the small machine rotates by electrostatic power only (generated by itself). Therefore one needs good bearings, as the Coulomb forces are quite weak.
I am still unsure if and how to produce charges without any direct contact by combs and with a single disc only. This is the most challenging task.
Besides it makes me unsure that even in this PDF Marinov wrote that Baumann mentioned a crystal in the small machine. I really do hope it is not something to get the perpetuum mobile run and that it's only for limiting the revolutions of the rotor (because the rotor would rotate faster and faster from his claims). What kind of crystal anyways? A pyrit or a diode? Like used in Detektor radios?
One of the improvements that I made in my Bonetti machines is always to use motors that do not have any cogging or much frictional resistance when coasting or unpowered. This has allowed me to see that these machines, like the Bonetti, can indeed be run "backwards" like an electrostatic motor. That is, if the disks are properly free to rotate and the pickups and neutral structures are properly positioned, the machine will indeed turn when it is supplied with HV (hundreds of kV, real high voltage not the stuff you get from "high voltage coils") it will turn and motor along just fine.... but in the opposite direction from when it is acting as a generator. I have run one Bonetti from the output of another of similar design and disk size.
The "Dirod" is essentially a single-disk Wimshurst warped into a drum instead of a disk, with fewer sharp edges and carbon fiber brushes for self starting and power take-off. It too will run as a motor if it's supplied with enough voltage at its output terminals.
ETA: It is a contact machine though, using carbon fiber filaments for the brushes, but I think it could be made to work like a noncontact Bonetti with a little redesign.
But I forget sometimes. Most people consider 20 or 30 kV to be "high voltage", and it is, of course, and it's about as high as you can get with conventional coils in a small package, like an auto ignition coil or a flyback transformer. Of course you can get much higher with big Tesla coils.
However, when you are talking electrostatics, 30 kV is peanuts, barely able to raise a hair or make a little spark. Things don't really really get interesting until 100 kV or so, and 300 kV is nice for a desktop Wimshurst or Bonetti, and my best Bonetti with 300 mm diameter disks will do 600 kV on a dry day, and yes that is a measured value. You don't do 600 kV in any ordinary kind of coil, not even one that could fit into the "elephant".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpemKuf6X_c
I am currently confused by the picture I posted myself about the ignition coil and need some hint in understanding. If you look on the right coil there is a text written "gemeinsamer Wicklungsanschluss". This means to me, that the thin and the thick wire are soldered together. ???
Since when is an arrangement like that working? I've never seen a transformer like that. Do I interprete something wrong, or are the coils really soldered together at this point?
@gauschor: Yes, that is correct. Electrically, the primary and secondary are connected together at the "bottom" of their windings and this point is connected to the system ground. This is similar to the grounding of a sparkgap tesla coil, where the primary and secondary may also be connected and grounded here, at the electrical "bottoms" of both coils.
Makes sense if you think about the car's wiring: the wires only are the positive for all circuits, the negative is the metal chassis and engine block. So the primary of the auto coil has its positive (Klemme 15) being interrupted by the points/condenser, and its negative (Klemme 1) going to chassis ground. The secondary has its high end going by a single wire to the spark plug, and the ground electrode of the spark plug goes to the engine block which is electrically connected back to the common ground. And the ignition coil makes this connection internally as well.
Damn...
@TK: thanks for confirming that. I need to work on my setup, because I only connected the coil with the many windings to the ground.
Auto ignition coils can work to 20-30 kV or so but at relatively low frequencies due to the core saturation.
I don't know if it will help at all, but here's a tiny Jacob's Ladder that's using an ignition coil for its HV output.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNL8QTS0sM0
The same basic circuit, with a different output stage, can also be used to drive a CRT flyback transformer using a custom 10-turn primary instead of the flyback's own primary.
The Ignition coil version does use the low-point grounding together, but the flyback version does not. So... I don't know which way will work best for you.
I knew Prof. Stefan Marinov quite well. Unfortunately he committed suicide in the mid nineties. Marinov told me the
Methernita group said they would give him the secret of the Testatika if he joined the group and swore to keep the secret.
He also told me that they said it is not an overunity machine as this was impossible and but that it draws its energy from space. The small machine had to be aligned N-S to start but there was no similar constraint on the big machine.
Marinov also said that Paul Baumann was a watch maker and early on was briefly in prison for some reason and employed in the workshop. At night when the lights were out, he always had a source of light to read by. We speculated on this and came to the conclusion the light was probably produced by luminous paint activated by radium bromide which was common practice for luminous clock and watch dials at that time and readily available for watch and clock dial painting.
I asked Marinov if the he thought the testatika was powered by this radium bromide and he said he hoped not.
here is an example of a possibly similar effect of radium on radio antenna
see:-
Intensifying Radio Signals with Radium; in [size=78%]Electrical Experimenter, 04:06 October 1916 Electrical Experimenter (http://www.g-books.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=277)[/size]
Here is one place to get a copy but you have to buy it:- [size=78%]http://www.g-books.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&prod (http://www.g-books.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&prod)[/size]
Mike Watson
(http://www.g-books.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=277)
Quote from: mikewatson on October 13, 2012, 11:10:19 AM
I knew Prof. Stefan Marinov quite well. Unfortunately he committed suicide in the mid nineties. Marinov told me the
Methernita group said they would give him the secret of the Testatika if he joined the group and swore to keep the secret.
He also told me that they said it is not an overunity machine as this was impossible and but that it draws its energy from space. The small machine had to be aligned N-S to start but there was no similar constraint on the big machine.
Marinov also said that Paul Baumann was a watch maker and early on was briefly in prison for some reason and employed in the workshop. At night when the lights were out, he always had a source of light to read by. We speculated on this and came to the conclusion the light was probably produced by luminous paint activated by radium bromide which was common practice for luminous clock and watch dials at that time and readily available for watch and clock dial painting.
I asked Marinov if the he thought the testatika was powered by this radium bromide and he said he hoped not.
here is an example of a possibly similar effect of radium on radio antenna
see:-
Intensifying Radio Signals with Radium; in [size=78%]Electrical Experimenter, 04:06 October 1916 Electrical Experimenter (http://www.g-books.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=277)[/size]
Here is one place to get a copy but you have to buy it:- [size=78%]http://www.g-books.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&prod (http://www.g-books.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&prod)[/size]
Mike Watson
Afaik they always insisted that no radium was used. It would definitely be interesting to read this chapter "Intensifying Radio Signals with Radium" from the old book. Maybe the Meternita just deducted some principle from the way radium was used in such a device and made it work with electromagnetism?
Edit: found a print of the page in goggle: http://www.nuenergy.org/pdf/radium_radio_intensifier.pdf (http://www.nuenergy.org/pdf/radium_radio_intensifier.pdf)
Let's have a read...
In the german HCRS-forum once someone from Bern mentioned, that his boss was once electrician in the prison, where Baumann was imprisoned. After 22:00 all lights were switched off, only in Baumann's cell there was still light. It seems he connected some little lamp to a black box. When his boss asked him, what this box was, Baumann just mumbled something about free energy, but didn't want to explain any detail.
So I definitely do not go for this story with the radioactive paint.
I don't want to offend anyone here, but to be honest, as long as there's no verifiable proof for a theory, it just remains another theory like many others.
And Tesla's "hairpin circuit" is IMHO just one other heavily misinterpreted Tesla circuit. It is so obvious what Tesla did here, that I sometimes cannot understand how one can interpret such strange things into this device. He just showed with this device. that if you create standing waves on a conductor, you get knots with high amplitudes and knots with nothing. So by connecting loads at these different points and then changing the frequency to have different standing waves you can get some lamps to light while others remain dark even if they are connected to the same conductor. Nothing special there. Especially nothing FE.
And according to Mr Baumann the machine generated the energy with the help of air ions. He even stated, that if one does let the machine run in a closed room, the machine will soon stop. They always had to open a window or a door for the machine to run continuously.
Jorge Resines seems to have replicated the testatika:
http://rimstar.org/sdenergy/testa/testareplicationjr.htm (http://rimstar.org/sdenergy/testa/testareplicationjr.htm)
Mike
Quote from: TheBuzz on October 13, 2012, 08:56:31 PMFrom there it is pretty simple really. I won't get into details
...
(Bearden) ... (Thane Heinz)
All the information is out there. You just have to put the big picture together.
You are quoting people who themselves never proved anything. Bearden is only a chatterbox, nothing else. It's always the same with these people claiming "yay, it's all there, just put it together, and don't forget the bad oil companies suppress everything". Once they'd lay their hands to actual experimenting they would see, it's not that easy.
@Replication of Jorge Resine:
Here is my observation and assumptions:
Regarding that replication I believe that I read in an article years ago that the discs of this replication were rotating very fast and the motor was powered by conventional electricity from the socket.
This leads me to the conclusion that he just drove the discs fast enough to produce enough static electricity. From my own experience on how long it takes to charge up a small cap (needs about 3 revolutions) I'd say this device uses about 50-150 revolutions / second.
Another hint: you can see he is not using conventional light bulbs (the one with the wire in it) but energy saving bulbs. These energy saving lamps are easier to lit than conventional bulbs. This has already been proven using different Joule Thief Circuits.
So the output of 300 Watts might just be the light intensity of 3x100 Watt conventional bulbs, but not real Watts.
Maybe he got enough power to light the energy saving bulbs, but never enough to feed it back to the motor. This principle must also differ completely from the principle of the Testatika, because the discs of the latter one were rotating by only 1 revolution / per second and Baumann actually lit "real" bulbs.
In my opinion this replication never was a replication.
Of course we have to take a lot at face value, I do not know if Baumann had a wire going into the mains socket hidden round the back either. It is only because Stefan Marinov told me personally that he had held the small machine in his hands and started it himself that I believe the Methernita people had discovered something important. At one time Marinov was a physics professor so was well familiar with conventional electromagnetism.
[size=78%]
[/size]
[size=78%]Mike[/size]
It is very difficult for me to believe that the Testatica depends on any major way on static electricity. There are a number of things that make static a problematic explanation. Static electricity involves the accumulation of high voltages on well-insulated metal surfaces or patch charges on insulating non-conducting surfaces like glass or plastic.
In no particular order:
1) you can hold one in your hand while it works
2) there are supposed to be single-disk versions (although there are single disk static machines too)
3) there are a lot of points and edges and generally tight radius metal parts like thin wires that would prevent high voltages from developing
4) the disks spin slowly
5) allegedly the number of sectors is related to the output frequency
6) Baumann called one disk "earth" and the other disk "cloud" as if to mean they have different or opposite polarities. But this is not how Wimshurst or Bonetti machines work, rather it is the "left" and "right" halves of the machine, involving both disks, that have the different polarities.
7) the power output seems too great
8) there are a lot of surfaces that can accumulate dust and moisture from the air, and these kill static machines, especially in humid weather
9) I don't recall any reports of smells of ozone, corona glow, occasional sparking, or being shocked while holding the small one by hand while running.
I too am personally acquainted with someone who went to Methernitha and handled the small unit while it was running. He has no explanation, although I don't know his views specifically concerning the possibility of a static electricity explanation.
Quote from: TheBuzz on October 15, 2012, 02:53:16 AM
snip
Just plain stupid arguing. If someone has something which works and wants everyone to have it - and this is the only way to work for free energy devices - then there are enough ways nowadays to do it and yet keep staying anonymous. If you don't realize that, then you must really lack basic knowledge on how to use "information technology". But you can of course continue to believe in your conspiracy and suppression theories, in people like Bearden, Keshe, Mylow, etc.
Quote from: TheBuzz on October 15, 2012, 02:53:16 AM
It is you that is a chatter box. Perhaps if you could read and write above a third grade level it would all make more sense and you could comprehend what others have shared.
If you do one of these three things, the national security agency will send a letter of mark to the president who will sign it, hand that off to the cowboys at CIA and they will murder you. They classify it as a national security economic threat. While it would not hurt my economics or yours perhaps you have not noticed your government does not represent you.
The three things are:
1. Do a credible public demonstration beyond any reasonable doubt.
2. Draw a detailed schematic that can be replicated.
3. Attempt to manufacture and sell a device.
Now I am real sorry you are not intelligent enough to "put it together" but you might just need to do what a bunch of us have done, and that is spend 30 years or so working on it.
The displacement current acts as an accelerator. All free energy devices convert mass into atomic energy and they all use acceleration to do that.
Displacement current alone will not do the trick but then I never claimed that. Again, I would suggest you spend more time carefully reading and less time spouting off about something you obviously know nothing about. That's good advice from an old man that spent decades figuring these things out.
I'm just sure there are good reasons that free energy devices are not allowed and the science not taught in school. Maybe someday when the Earth is not polluted with idiots and thugs, they will be available. Until then, if you can't afford the gas, get on the short bus.
particle accelarator..mm..SM wrote about CRT television and an accident occurred in 1965.a CRT can accelerate particle (ions) trough the "correct" 2 pulsed frequencies and convert the mass into electrical energy?? If the receptor is not polarized it does not work.the linden experiment show the magnet and coil capturing the "modified"ions and make 700 volts.probably the vortex still present even the machine was stopped.....
here is a diagram that suggests the Testatika uses radium as energy source
mike
QuoteI don't recall any reports of smells of ozone, corona glow, occasional sparking, or being shocked while holding the small one by hand while running.
Actually we have more than one report which report sparks. Albert Hauser also reported that one could hear typical corona hissing as when using a Wimshurst or other influence machines.
@Mike: BTW: We just recently discovered a statement by you in the yahoo group, that a friend of you talked to Bosshard, and he told, that they couldn't scale the machines up.
Maybe you can tell a bit more about the source of this statement, and if he maybe also mentioned some other things.
For me, this sentence was quite an eye opener, as this is for me the best explanation so far, why they suddenly stopped building the machines.
If they really would work with stimulated radioactive decay, then there should have been no problem in scaling them up. If on the other hand it worked with air ions, you would very well expect that there is a certain max energy you can get at a local point before you get a saturation. So it could have well been, that they realized, that although they made them bigger, they couldn't get more energy out of it.
This would be similar to Plauson's balloons, where he had to put them 100m away from each other so that they didn't had to share the same amount of energy.
If the Testatikas had the same problem, then they would have been more or less useless, as the energy output per earth-surface would have been terrible low (as Plauson's balloon idea).
Maybe after some tries with bigger machines they started to realize this and so they trashed all future development of these machines.
E.g. if we would assume, that the machine gets its energy from the earth e-field, which is surely possible, then it would be obvious, that the total energy you could get even over the whole surface of the earth is just about the energy produced by one single nuclear plant. So definitely no alternative source of energy to feed the energy need of mankind. And the impact on nature not even mentioned...
The explanation from Baumann, that the machine works with the air ions and that it needed open windows to work also wouldn't make sense in relation to a radioactive power source.
From recent reports we also know, that the big long rear tubes of the 3kW machine, which do have these strangely patterned foil on them actually didn't have this foil on them, when the first visitors saw the machine. They could clearly see through the tube while it was running. And in the tube was just one big aluminum lathe turning, nothing else.
And just one additional note: I really don't think the machine has anything to do with a Wimshurst or any other known influence machine. Why? Look at the first machine made (the little two disc machine). It has only the two side electrodes and the top electrode on the front disc and no corner electrodes at all!
Edit:
Another note. AFAIK there's no visitor who ever saw the machine under a load for longer times. From all reports i know, they just saw the machine under load for a few seconds. This would also be explainable with the air ions theory, as under load, the air would have been saturated much more quickly. And then it needed some time for the ion cloud to get transported away by the e-field of the earth. This would mean, that the indicated 3kW power was only peak, and the machine not capable of delivering this power continuously.
As you probably know Stefan Marinov believed in overunity right up to his suicide in 1997. He told me that he asked Bossard or Baumann about the testatika being an perpetual motion machine and the reply was that perpetual motion is impossible. The clear implication was that the machine had an energy source of some sort.
If aerial ions were the source, and the machine was producing 200 watts, then at 100 volts the load would be taking 2 amps, or 2 coulombs per second which is 3.2 *10^19 ions/second, assuming a minimum single electric charge. If the Testatika could attract that quantity of charge from the environment then onlookers would certainly suffer ionising radiation damage.
I heard that Baumann has only recently died at a very advanced age.
Mike
QuoteIf the Testatika could attract that quantity of charge from the environment then onlookers would certainly suffer ionising radiation damage.
First, I personally really don't think it attracted the ions, but that it generated the ions, for this is IMHO much more efficient. And secondly, it only depends how much energy you can get out of the earth e-field per ion (voltage), as how much energy you can get for the number of ions (current).
E.g. Plauson got about 3kW of energy for one of his balloons, but that was certainly at quite some height.
BTW: Even Viktor Schauberger declared that one of his early small machines was capable of ionizing the air at a rate of 40Amps!
Baumann clearly explained, that it works with air ions. So the question is, if he lied, or if he meant something completely different.
I personally think that it is much more likely that the machine used the earth e-field for power production, than radioactive sources, for the Methernitha people had quite an aversion against radioactive power plants.
It's also very unlikely that the machine got it's power from a conversion of ambient thermal energy, as no visitor ever reported the room getting cooler. Actually they even said the opposite when they attached a heating element.
And that the machines didn't work anymore inside a faraday-cage is IMHO an additional point against the theory of the radioactive power source.
Sure nobody knows, but IMHO clearly more clues point into the direction of air ions as power source, than other means.
But the air ion theory as the energy source for the testatika does not stand up to scrutiny. The fine weather earth atmosphere conduction current is 2 x 10^-16 amps/sq cm. or 2 X 10^-12 amps/sq metre, see B.F Schonland "Atmospheric Electricity" page 41 and Chapter 2 Electric Fields and Atmospheric Electric Currents.
It seems to me that the only other possibilities are some sort of free energy discovery or radioactivity such as Moray and Hubbard and others used used 90 years ago.
Mike
Actually there is another explanation, that of a hoax or fraud. I wish that it wasn't so; the Testatika is the most intriguing of many devices I've thought about over the years, by far.
All of the phenomena of the Testatika can be duplicated, I believe, by a simple, if rather large, inductive power transmission/reception system. The Testatika machine itself includes the bare minimum components of an inductive power receiver: coils of wire, capacitors, mineral crystal diodes, resistive/inductive loads, as well as perhaps some superfluous or spurious components. The transmission loops and other components of the wireless inductive transmission system could have been concealed in the walls or tables or otherwise nearby the operating machines.
I can't immediately see how the disks are made to turn by the received power, but certainly an external load can be energised quite well by the visible components of a Testatika, driven by a concealed inductive wireless power transmission system, which itself is getting its power in the normal manner.
I didn't know about the sparking that had been observed, thanks for telling me that. But what started me thinking more heavily about the inductive system was the fact, mentioned above, that I also didn't know: the Testatika doesn't work in a Faraday cage. Wow.
Static machines like Wimshurst or Bonetti, which the Testatika resembles, work just fine inside a Faraday cage, in fact maybe even better than outside.
But inductive wireless power transfer systems do not work "through" a Faraday cage screen.
A Bonetti machine operating inside a large complete Faraday screen room:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYGFqkXjwZc
An inductive wireless power transfer system that does NOT work thru a Faraday screen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hoq5C7ecRdU
In a different video, off topic, I show that that same system can't transmit through a Faraday screen. So you could imagine, in the latter video, that the transmitting loop was all around the demonstration room in the walls, and the coils and caps and diodes of the Testatika machine are receiving, detecting and rectifying the power, and allowing some to be used to power the usual bank of lights or other external loads, and some of it is used in a clever motor arrangement to drive the disks and commutate the DC into.... AC at the mains frequency, 50 or 60 Hz depending on the segments. It actually all could fit.
:-[
QuoteBut the air ion theory as the energy source for the testatika does not stand up to scrutiny. The fine weather earth atmosphere conduction current is 2 x 10^-16 amps/sq cm. or 2 X 10^-12 amps/sq metre, see B.F Schonland "Atmospheric Electricity" page 41 and Chapter 2 Electric Fields and Atmospheric Electric Currents.
Yes, this is exactly why I said, that IMHO the machine ionizes the air, and doesn't collect the air ions. For then it is not limited by the natural atmospheric ion flow, but only by the local saturation of the e-field.
There could even be no natural ions, and it would still work like that. The only thing you need, is the earth e-field and an open connection to the atmosphere.
QuoteIt seems to me that the only other possibilities are some sort of free energy discovery or radioactivity such as Moray and Hubbard and others used used 90 years ago.
As already mentioned: IMHO way too many points speak against the radioactive power theory. And I could even name a lot more points, which speak against this theory.
Sure there remains the possibility, that the machine worked on a completely unknown discovery.
But then we would still have the explanations from Methernitha that:
* it worked with air ions
* the machine stopped after a while in a closed room.
* the machine didn't work in a faraday cage
* the machine did output more power during a thunderstorm
* the basic idea of the machine was inspired by observing lightning flashes
* they couldn't size the machines up.
And all these points would IMHO be consistent with the air ionization theory, whereas I see no reason, how they could match the radioactive power theory. And i personally didn't yet find any other theory matching these statements. This is why I personally currently hold this theory as the most likely.
BTW: I personally really think that e.g. Moray's device didn't get its power due to radioactive sources. Then why should he have needed such a big antenna (which was even oriented according to the earths magnetic field) ? Just as a priming signal ? Come on...
A hint to me is that during a long run test of the device, they reported an unusual good sunny weather for the time of the year...
But that's another story, and surely offtopic here.
QuoteActually there is another explanation, that of a hoax or fraud.
Sure there is always the possibility of a hoax. But IMHO too many points speak against a hoax. First. To transmit that amount of power inductively, is almost impossible if you don't have a coupling of very short distance. E.g. Tesla still needed quite big receiving inductors to get that, not to mention the size of the sending inductor. Also if you look at the Intel transmitting system, they also needed quite big inductances. Simply because you need that enough field lines go through your inductor surface. Also it was possible to hold the machines oriented anyway you liked, when they were running, which would be a disaster for an inductive coupling.
Or said otherwise. If you manage to transmit that amount of power with such a bad coupling, then this would be a real feat, and then your neighbors wouldn't be very happy, for obvious reasons...
Also in one of the reports it is stated, that the visitor was for a time alone in the room, and he looked everywhere if there's some inductive coupling circuit in the room, under the table, etc., but didn't find anything.
It would also be completely illogical, that they themselves point out, that they tested it, and the machine doesn't work in a Faraday-cage. Why should they tell that if it was a fake? No visitor ever saw this test.
When S&S tested the machine under load with measuring instruments, they could even take the machine apart before the test. So there are IMHO not many remaining possibilities to fake here.
Also the history of the machines point into the direction that this was no fake. Why should they have made these huge machines? Just the used perspex alone was already extremely costly. And they certainly wouldn't have been needed just to pull off a fraud.
But I personally think it is quite likely, that the machine didn't had the power output as declared. So in this relation they maybe bent the truth a little... On the other hand, AFAIK they never explicitly said, that the machine would deliver 3kW
continuously.
@Mike:
Actually it would be interesting, when your friend's friend heard from Bosshard about the problems with the big machines. Do you know in which year this was?
@Stefan:
IMHO it would be very interesting to know in which context Mr Bosshard said to you that "the secret lies in the crystals".
Were you talking about the power source of the Testatika, or the Testatika in general, or just some random talk about this and that?
I'm still asking myself what Mr Bosshard actually knows. E.g. in the Net-Journal from Jan/Feb 2004 is an interview with a visitor from 1999. He reports that he asked Mr Bosshard, if radioactive materials are used. Then Mr Bosshard asked this question to Mr Baumann, and he said no.
But why did he have to ask Mr Baumann this question. This seems to me, as if Mr Bosshard, at least at that time (which was quite late, related to the machines history) didn't really knew details of the machine.
Also in the Net-Journal Sept/Okt 2011, there is a passage, where Mr Bosshard tells, what Mr Baumann told him, and this is only a very slight hint, on how the machine does work. Why should he have hinted Mr Bosshard such a thing, if Mr Bosshard actually knew the secret. Would seem strange to me.
;)
Marinov visited Methernita in the late 1980's-early 1990's. See "Thorny Way of Truth Part V, there is the account of his visit (In German). Marinoy told me he handled the little single disk machine. He had to spin the disk to start it and he could easily stop it by putting a finger on the rim, there was a small resistance to the disk stalling and then the disk motion would suddenly stop with no further activity unless the disk was manually spun again. Marinov thought that the Testatika was based on the rotating ampere bridge, which Marinov thought was reaction-less. Later Marinov's friend Prof. Pappas proved that the ampere bridge was not reaction-less (did not violate the laws of energy conservation).
Another story roughly like this:- when Baumann was in prison (for some years) he made a simple device in the prison workshop to give him light to read at night after the prison lights were off. It consisted of a horizontal plastic strip or paddle with wire gauze or mesh at each end. This was moved back and forth horizontally over similar fixed gauze mesh pads mounted on a base. Electricity generated was stored in something (capacitor ?)to give him light at night. It was said that "Baumann was never without light at night" presumably to read by. So it is based something simple, which a Swiss watchmaker could easily get in prison.
Stefan Hartmann, moderator of this site (?) visited Methernita and produced a report,which I have somewhere so (if it is him) he may be able to cast more light (excuse the pun) on this subject.
Mike
@Mike:
So did I understand you correctly, that you don't know anymore, from whom you had this information with the upscaling problem? But that maybe this information was from Stefan?
I refer to your message No 571 in the yahoo group from 2002:
QuoteA friend of mine recently visited Methernitha. Bossard told him that the big machines did not work, they were currently unable to scale up the machines for reasons that were not clear even to them.
BTW: Do you know, if Marinov again visited Methernitha and saw the machines after he wrote TTWT V?
For in TTWT V he writes that he only saw the two small machines and big machine in the works. So it would be interesting, if he ever saw the 3kW machine at a later time, or if he never saw it.
@Shanti
If I remember correctly it was Marinov who said that Bauman (or possibly Cathomen the builder of the Testatika machines) had told him they were unable to scale up the size of the machine. It was not clear either if the machines would work continuously. The facts speak for themselves, despite the intervening 18 or so years electricity at Methernita is not provided by a number of testatikas but by the electricity supply company.
They told Marinov that if he joined their inner group and swore to keep the secret they would tell him how the testatika worked. Marinov refused because he said it was against the scientific ethic. It is not clear to me how many times Marinov visited Methernta.
Mike
Thanks.
I always thought before it couldn't have been Marinov, for he died in 1997, and in your message from 2002 you said, that your friend "recently" was in Linden and spoke with Mr Bosshard.
Here is an interesting excerpt from someones visit to Bauman:-
http://www.rexresearch.com/testatik/testart.htm.[/size]
It was really impressive! One can hardly believe it, with this slow rotation. In any case, this cannot be explained in terms of bare electrostatics in the sense of the Wimshurst machine. The perforated sheets seem to have a key function... Beside the pick-up and the drive electrodes there are a number of small plexiglass blocks with glued-on perforated sheets, whose function is unknown.[/size]
As Adolf Schneider already mentioned, my colleague Bernhard XXX and I want to try to copy the principle experiment shown by Baumann --- without much hope to find anything extraordinary, though.[/size]
The device consists of a horizontal swiveling plexiglass arm with a small rectangular plexiglass plate at both ends glued to the lower side of the arm. The lower side of the arm is covered with perforated aluminum sheets (square holes), while the bottom of the plates is covered with brass wire mesh. Beneath each plate five additional plates are glued onto the base plate. There is also wire mesh between each pair of plates in the two blocks. From the mesh layer between the lowest plate and the base a wire goes to the two capacitors, which are connected in parallel . Baumann seized the arm with both hands and turned it about ten times back and forth (a full rotation was not possible, because the capacitors were in the way), then measured the DC voltage with a digital measuring instrument: 60 Volts. Then, as he short-circuited the condensers a loud crack could be heard. I don´t know if that already is an abnormal result...[/size]
On my question Baumann replied that with metal foil (instead of wire mesh) the device would not produce that effect.[/size]
Stumbled on this as well. Thanks for reposting it. Building up tension by the use of these plexiglass/metal blocks seems to be essential. Another most interesting aspect in here is, that the rotor didn't touch the blocks. So there was no friction. And the finished Testatika neither had direct contact with pickup brushes. It's also noteworthy to mention that he may have "charged" the rotor by the act of putting his hands around it.
I've always started with some kind of Wimshurst or Toepler device to produce electrostatic energy, but maybe this approach was a mistake. Maybe this exact experiment above must replicated successfully first in order to understand the Testatika. Maybe something about the energy produced using Paul Baumann's way is different or more efficient than the usual approach.
There is something unclear about this prototype experiment though: it is said that layers of aluminium and brass are used. But then again one may remember that it was told, that the metal meshes on the disc of the testatika were slightly magnetized. Here's the problem: you can't magnetise aluminium or brass... so what kind of metal was it really? Iron?
Edit: ah ok, I guess I have my answer when looking at this picture:so the grid on the rotor is (although with "?") labeled as steel. It definitely is something that can be magnetized then.
You can take an ordinary air variable capacitor, a high-voltage one like is used in ham transmitters, and which can have its movable plates rotated 360 degrees. Drive this capacitor with a motor and you will see voltage generated at its terminals. Put a diode in there and you can actually charge up a battery or capacitor. The "Principle Experiment" is only lacking either a diode or a commutator/switch, to be able to charge up capacitors by the same means, I think.
IMHO it surely is no problem to generate HV with such kind of device, but that doesn't give you anything in excess. The question is: Where does the extra energy come from, and how?
Someone just posted an article from an old book from Inge Schneider. In it there's an interview with Mr Bosshard. And an interesting part of this interview is the following:
Mr Schneider:
I do have a certain idea, how the Testatika could work. Energy doesn't come from
nothing, but from the atmosphere. It is known, that the atmosphere, the weather,
has an enormous energy in it. It is, for example eerie, the amount of energy
which is set free during a Tornado. On the Testatika, I guess, electricity is
drawn from the atmosphere by electrons and then utilized.
Mr Bosshard:
Yes, I can tell you, I'm not a technician, and only have had a physics
education, but for me it was a revelation, when I did understand the principle.
The machine works according to the ordering principle, just like also the
Tornado does. A law is activated, which aims for a order, pointing to the
center, and there the energies get unlimited at the end.
To stay on the machine topic: What does it do?
It orders the positive and negative parts in the atmosphere - exactly how they
exist in a thunderstorm. A polarization of opposed forces is developed, an
order, a voltage field in between, and this is efficiency. Ordering equals
efficiency. This is the basic law, which is true.
[...]
So it seems, like Mr Baumann explained to him the basic functional principle, but IMHO it doesn't seem that he new details on how this is then actually practically done in the machines.
@TinselKoala: but there's the point: if I use a motor it's like that: let's say the motor drives at about 50 revolutions/second and does this for 10 seconds to charge the capacitor up, then it's a minimum of 500 rps already. Compared to that, Baumann only needed 10 rotations to charge up the cap. Something in Baumann's principle experiment setup must have been overly efficient.
It seems to me the only way it would be possible to get that much energy from such a small and simple device as Baumann demonstrated is by the use of radium bromide, which was then readily available as luminous paint for clock and watch dials. I have here a small ww2 era radioactive instrument pointer and it produces a respectable number of clicks on a geiger counter.
Here is an effect discovered by Maby and Franklin in ww2 but forgotten:-
Take geiger counter, put on it a radioactive source, alpha or beta emitter such as a vintage camping gas mantle from ebay(not all modern ones are radioactive) as an alpha source or salt substitute (potassium chloride) which is naturally radioactive due to the presence of potassium 40 (see wikipedia:-potassium 40) for a beta emitter.
Use a laptop and a data collection device to read the geiger clicks with respect to time and show them on a laptop. Wait until a vehicle passes and you will see (and hear) the geiger clicks/second speed up and slow down in a wavelike way as the vehicle passes.
This effect was called the "mass wave" by Glasewski around 1950. Note the total decay rate remains unaltered because the increase in decay rate is followed by a decrease in decay rate in a wavelike manner.
Perhaps something similar was used by Baumann.
Did you ever do the math how strong the radioactive decay actually would have had to be?
Let's assume if it is possible to somehow stimulate the decay. But this stimulation would not need to have a factor of 1000s, but of millions or billions.
And if we now would really be able to get this stimulated strong decay, then you surely would not be able to convert it 100% to electricity. That's just not possible.
E.g. if we look at conventional nucleid batteries, then their efficiency is terrible. Even if you would somehow find a possibility that you can make the conversion more efficient, then still a lot of waste heat would have been produced. But all visitors stated that they couldn't detect any heat raise on the machines (nor could they detect any cooling of the device).
Also in this interview from Bosshard, he again points out, that any increasing/stimulation of the natural decay to get energy is against nature.
I personally really do not believe they would ever have made anything in that direction, as it would have been strongly against their beliefs and way of living.
Quote from: gauschor on November 02, 2012, 05:47:36 AM
@TinselKoala: but there's the point: if I use a motor it's like that: let's say the motor drives at about 50 revolutions/second and does this for 10 seconds to charge the capacitor up, then it's a minimum of 500 rps already. Compared to that, Baumann only needed 10 rotations to charge up the cap. Something in Baumann's principle experiment setup must have been overly efficient.
Yes, I agree with you there. But also, as far as I know, nobody else has been able to reproduce the Principal Experiment, even though the materials and construction seem simple enough. It's strange and tantalising that many static machines do exist that look superficially like the PE and the full Testatika, both single and twindisk versions, but none of them are anywhere near the output performance of Baumann's devices.
Beta emitters could be used effectively to "pre-charge" or add just enough charge to get enough coldfield emission so that a non-contact induction static machine like a Bonetti, or an electrophorus/capacitance device like I think the PE is, to "start" its induction/voltage amplification process. But the major energy will still be coming from whatever drives the physical motion of the parts. If you had a beta emitter strong enough actually to supply the full power that the machines exhibited, you'd not be able to stand in the same room with it, I don't think.
QuoteIf you had a beta emitter strong enough actually to supply the full power that the machines exhibited, you'd not be able to stand in the same room with it, I don't think.
Well, shielding beta radiation is not that big problem (if the energy is not too high). But then you get heat...
One beta particle from strontium90 (0.5 Mev produces 86000 ions on absorption in a metal) and radium emanations with 10 times the energy would probably produce up to 100 times more particles on absorption.
Paul Brown's patent 4,835,433 used such emanation directly. Brown was killed in a road accident in 2001. Brown's cell was quite small and functioned by the direct absorption of radioactive emanations from strontium 90 by a resonant tuned circuit. Paul Brown's system was built and it worked giving 400 volts at 23 amps or 9 KW by direct radiation absorption.
So radioactivity can be directly used, whether it was used in the Testatika is another question, but it seems to me one plausible physical explanation.
Quote from: mikewatson on November 03, 2012, 01:18:43 PM
One beta particle from strontium90 (0.5 Mev produces 86000 ions on absorption in a metal) and radium emanations with 10 times the energy would probably produce up to 100 times more particles on absorption.
Paul Brown's patent 4,835,433 used such emanation directly. Brown was killed in a road accident in 2001. Brown's cell was quite small and functioned by the direct absorption of radioactive emanations from strontium 90 by a resonant tuned circuit. Paul Brown's system was built and it worked giving 400 volts at 23 amps or 9 KW by direct radiation absorption.
So radioactivity can be directly used, whether it was used in the Testatika is another question, but it seems to me one plausible physical explanation.
So why, then, does NASA use plutonium - powered thermoelectric generators for its robotic spacecraft, then? More suppression of miracle free energy tech?
I am acquainted with the president of the company for whom Paul Brown worked, specifically founded to exploit Brown's work. He wrote a book about this whole sorry tale, "The Half-Life of a Nuclear battery" riddled with politics, political interests and so on, the usual stuff.[size=78%] [/size]
Thanks, I'll look for the book. Maybe there's an answer to my question in there.
Paul Brown's Nuclear battery:-"The Half-Life of a Nuclear Battery" by Philip H. Talbert ISBN 978-0-615-23375-8 published 2008. Amazon have it.
also:- http://www.rexresearch.com/nucell/nucell.htm
What if both of these were only milliVolts?
Linden Experiment: 700 Volts
Principle Experiment: 60 Volts
Linden Experiment: holding a sandwich (copper-paper-aluminium) in between 2 fingers and measure the voltage. If you have somehow wet skin you'll achieve a value ranging from 500-700mV. I verified it myself.
Principle Experiment: charging up a cap to 60mV using the specified setup may just work for this. If anyone has replicated the setup please try it out. I will do myself, but I don't have access to building material for a while. I am quite certain the 10 rotations may work for the low amount milliVolts.
The only thing which seems to disprove the above mentioned is that a crackling sound was heard as Baumann discharged the opposite poles of the cap against each other. That wouldn't be possible with such low amount of Volts...
Sure it is possible to directly convert radioactive energy to electricity, this knowledge is about as old as the discovery of radioactivity.
But you need strong radioactive stuff. As it seems, Brown used directly radioactive stuff, which IMHO we can exclude for Baumann's devices, as it is highly unlikely he could have got this stuff, and he also said, that he doesn't use radioactive stuff.
There would only be the possibility to extremely excite any very low radioactive stuff (which Baumann maybe wouldn't have termed radioactive) . And as I said, the excitement would then have had to be extreme! IMHO very unlikely. Sure I do think it is possible to excite radioactive decay, but not with these factors! This would IMHO have surely already long been discovered by mainstream science.
I also strongly suspect that Brown's battery developed quite some heat. I don't know, did it?
Then we have the problem, of where should the radioactive stuff have been hidden? As we now know, it certainly wasn't in the long rear tubes. And if we believe in the various reports, there was not much space left in the big pots.
As S&S could ,AFAIK as the only persons, take a machine apart, and didn't see anything special except some different metals and coils and the perspex stuff, I just wouldn't know, where the radioactive source should have been hidden.
It is also not compatible with the many hints Baumann gave, upon the working principle of the machine. He also clearly said to S&S, that it takes "electricity from the air".
Also to various other visitors he and also Bosshard always explained the machines in that way, that they get their energy from air ions.
So either they lied, but then the whole story becomes anyways shady and a fake would IMHO be more likely than the radioactive theory, or the machines did really get the power from the air.
But then we still have, as I already mentioned, the other hints about the machines, which are IMHO just not compatible with the radioactive source theory:
* the machine stopped after a while in a closed room.
* the machine didn't work in a faraday cage
* the machine did output more power during a thunderstorm
Therefore is my personal conclusion: Did it use a radioactive source? Possible, but very unlikely.
@gauschor:
As you said, the loud bang after he shorted the caps is surely not compatible with a wrong reading. But this is not the case for the Linden-Experiment...
I believe Baumann died a year ago, so unless he passed the secret on we may never know how the testatika worked.
QuoteI believe Baumann died a year ago, so unless he passed the secret on we may never know how the testatika worked.
Yes. And I also think, if what the different visitors said is true, then there's now probably no one anymore who knows details about the machine.
But if anyone is ever able to replicate it, and I have no doubt that this will be done (maybe in the distant future... ;) ), then we will know how it worked. But until then...
There is another possibility that Baumann discovered something similar to Louis Rota (wikirota.org/en). Rota claimed to have discovered an energy in the earth similar to earth currents which he called "universal currents". They are similar to electric current except they will decompose metals. There over 361 of these different currents and groups of them flow in the earth's crust.
According to Rota each metal consists of a group of universal currents locked together, so for example copper consists of four universal currents locked together and iron seven or eight different currents.
If any metal is put in contact with one its component currents by for example burying it in an area in which the current exist, the metal will slowly dissolve yielding all its component currents as a group. These released currents can be in high or low potential depending on the metal but can yield enormous energy.
I was involved i digging up a Rota block in France many years ago and a lot of what was found is on the wikirota site.
To some up, there appears to be another way in which metals can be disintegrated yielding energy.
High voltages appear to be the way of starting the process of dissolving metal into universal current rather than the nuclear form we are used to.
Looking at this picture http://rimstar.org/sdenergy/testa/misc/testabig.jpg (http://rimstar.org/sdenergy/testa/misc/testabig.jpg) I wonder if the grilles are
a) wire meshes
b) perforated metal sheets
Maybe it's relevant which one of these are used. It actually looks quite hard to determine, if they are of type (a) or (b), despite the large picture. In my opinion it looks like b), what do you think?
If it b) I wonder which shops (in Europe) sell metal sheets with such small quadratic holes. Most of the shops I found have a smallest hole size of 4mm...
I had an enlightening idea lately. I bet most of you know the electrostatic disc motor powered by the laws of attraction / repulsion. The self-running small Testatika also is based on that, if I recall correctly.
Now you can discharge voltage against each others pole and transform this impulse to a little bit more amperage with a default transformer. Now, instead of transforming the impulses downwards - what if one would transform the voltage UPWARDS? Wouldn't this create even higher potential than before?
Now let's continue the thought experiment and recall that the Testatika disc has no direct brush contacts, but is still able to pick up energy. 2 brushes are for "picking up the energy" and 2-4 other brushes most likely to drive the disc.
After the first rotation the picked up potential will be too less for anything, even after transforming up the voltage, but a couple of rotations could reach that goal. This would also explain, why the small Testatika needs to be rotated by hand a couple of times: simply to build up enough potential difference to get the disc started. Once a certain potential is reached it would continue rotating by itself. Certainly the device would lose some of it's potential because of the environment, but by using the transformer to put the voltage up it can produce enough to keep the required potential difference for spinning the disc, including some excess potential. The transformed potential difference is always higher than the one on the disc - which results in the disc rotating faster and faster. This also matches with Baumann's statement that it would rotate faster and faster.
The rectifier diode on top of the machine can be a simple arrangement which simply discharges 2 poles against each other at a certain distance if a potential high enough is reached, nothing else (and can be ignored for the experiment).
So far the theory, what do you think about it?
(This would not explain the wattage it produces, but maybe how it entirely self-runs)
I met Stefan Marinov several times in the early nineties and got to know him quite well. As you know he was certain that overunity exists and did several experiments to try to prove it.
He told me that when he visited Methernita and was allowed to play with the small testatika he could start it by spinning the disk and the disk offered a slight resistance to a finger before finally stalling. Marinov said to Baumann and Bossard that they had discovered a free energy perpetual motion machine, to which Baumann replied "but perpetual motion is impossible" or words to that effect.
Marinov knew his physics, he was, at one time, an assistant professor of physics in the universtiy of Graz (?).
Marinov's final experiment on the "Ampere Bridge" a version of which he thought was overunity was proven by his friend Prof. Pappas not to be overunity, that is, the electromagnetic field is conserved. This sees to have been a major contribution to Marinov's suicide.
Mike
That is interesting, though unfortunately I can hardly find anything about the Ampere Bridge.
... However this brought me somehow to particle accelerators, "Linear acceleration", based on high frequency and Van-De-Graph accelerators (see Wikipedia for that, e.g. german pages like http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linearbeschleuniger or http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van-de-Graaff-Beschleuniger for a start. Honestly the phrases of electrostatics, vacuum tube, ions acceleration reminds me of Testatika or the Edwin Gray Tube. That's probably part of the solution of the Testatika and what happens inside the tubes.... though not trivial to build in a home experiment :|
The original ampere bridge consists of two long parallel mercury filled troughs next to each other. One trough is connected to + pole of a electric power source and the other to the minus pole. Floating on top of the mercury is a U shaped piece of wire forming a bridge between each trough. The wire ends of the U are bent 90 degrees horizontally so it floats on the mercury troughs with the U shaped bridge part upright and the horizontal limbs floating on the mercury. The U shaped bridge moves horizontally along the troughs when electric current flows.
Marinov's version was circular with the mercury in the form of two circular troughs and several U shaped pieces with limps in the mercury mounted on a central shaft that rotated. Attached is page from Deutche Physik Vol 1, Number 3, 1992 on the ampere bridge. Later Pappas indisputably proved that the Ampere Bridge in either form did not violate the law of conservation of angular momentum.
Mike
Here is a example in the attached pdf file of radium emanation intensifying radio signals. Various people have mentioned in patents etc that the presence of copper oxide on the various wires helps the transformation process. A number of the early researchers in this field such as Moray, Hubbard and probably Hendershott used radium.
In the attached file, the strange thing is the directional nature of the influence of radium emanation on the antenna.
Wm. Barker in US patent 4,961,880 maintains that high potential gradients modify beta and alpha decay rate.
Mike
I really don't think they used radium.
take a look to this .... familiar ??? ??? ?
Karl Hans Janke - The German "Nikola Tesla" ??? ?
Karl Hans Joachim Janke (21. August (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/21._August) 1909 (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/1909) in , Pommern (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provinz_Pommern); † 15. Februar (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/15._Februar) 1988 (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988) in Wermsdorf (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wermsdorf)
before Paul Baumann?
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Hans_Janke (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Hans_Janke)
I believe Janke took over the Schloss in Aurolzmünster after the death of Karl Schappeller. Janke like Schappeller and also Rudolph Steiner believed in the existence of a "vital force" that had the property of building up order from relative disorder, the so called Urkraft. This contrasts to ordinary physical forces than run down from an ordered state to a disordered state. This "building up" force is the source of life on this planet. Every time a seed is planted in the ground this vital energy is tapped.
Janke founded or lead the Reich Arbeits Gemeinschaft (RAG) which was a society with the aim of exploiting this vital force, which was called "vril". All this is documented in Der Vril Mythos by Peter Bahn and Heiner Gehring, Omega Verlag 1997. Davson in his book on Schappeller physics called this Vril force Primary Energy.
A significant point is that Baumann was around when Schappeller was alive and was not far from Austria so would almost definitely have known about Schappeller.
Certainly Schappeller said he was using an energy that naturally itself built up, used by all living matter. This seems close to Baumann's religous ideas and a true free energy.
Mike
QuoteI wonder which shops (in Europe) sell metal sheets with such small quadratic holes. Most of the shops I found have a smallest hole size of 4mm...
Try www.modulor.de (http://www.overunity.com/www.modulor.de). They have quite some of this stuff.
@mike:
I think you're mixing up the persons. Janke certainly never had anything to do with Schappeller (wrong country).
The person you meant was Johannes Janik, not Janke.
It's certainly quite hard to tell, if there's some truth to Janke's stuff or not. Certain ideas are certainly purely ridiculous (e.g. that one shouldn't build skyscrapers, for the ground cannot support them and they would fall down into the earth...)
Some of his ideas are on the other hand quite straight forward, but a bit strange in concept. E.g. when he writes, that there are "streets" in the solar system with oxygen and hydrogen atoms, and that one could use them to burn them and get so a propulsion in space.
Other views about the solar system show great similarities to plasma cosmology. We do know, that Janke read a lot. So maybe he also read some of Alfvén's stuff???
Thanks, this shop seems to have exactly the kind of aluminium mesh I need :)
Besides, has anyone tried to get the perpetual motion of the Testatika done? This is not not about the output power of the Testatika, but about getting the disc to rotate without any power source. Wouldn't it be nice to have a self rotating disc when experimenting with electrostatics?
Now my consideration is the following: I have observed that when creating the potential difference between 2 electrodes the brushes do NOT touch the disc segments at all. Electrons are obviously "jumping" over a small distance if the influence from the metal sheet below the segment is strong enough. Based on this and the fact that you can drive a disc by the laws of electrostatic attraction and repulsion (e.g. here (http://www.gymnasium-dinkelsbuehl.de/hs/fachsch/undesbew/Scheibenlaufer_01.jpg)) it should theoretically be possible to achieve a self-runner.
I came up with some sketches as seen below. The first phase is to test if a charged ruler behind the segment is strong enough to suck in electrons from the grounding and charge the segments up (manually rotating the disc). If it does, then we might have won.
(Sorry, for the second part being german, I stopped translating it as it made no sense for I didn't tried it out yet, also some logical errors might appear which can only be seen while experimenting. You get the idea though, the inner segments are for driving the disc, the outer segments to create the voltage).
You will never get a self runner like that. The mechanical energy needed to separate the charges at the charging points is always bigger than the electric energy you can get, and with which you then can drive the wheel again.
Only in perfect conditions (zero friction, not corona loss), a self runner would be possible. But then you also wouldn't need all this stuff, for when you have a wheel without friction, it will turn forever...
You do need an energy source!
You may be right, I didn't think about that, but it makes sense.
Now that you said it, it might explain why the first small Testatika didn't have segments on the disc, but only "wires" instead of segments: therefore the mechanical energy needed to separate the charges could be equal to the energy required to drive the disc, as the size stayed the same, in comparison to my setup.
I don't understand their setup fully, as they seem to have combined creator+drive segments in one, therefore I thought of an approach where one could clearly see the difference.
It's the same if the wires have the same dimensions or not. Just like that, a selfrunner is impossible. You need an energy source!
I personally also do not think at all, that the discs were selfrunners per se. IMHO they are just using two separate circuits to get energy. One circuit is feeding the load the other circuit is used to again drive the wheels. And as the circuits are independent, there's also no direct problem, if you e.g. short the load.
IMHO the driving circuit is made much more complex, for IMHO the driving circuit also charges the wheels up, and also regulates the speed of the wheels.
But one could also guess, that the charging up circuit is an additional independent third circuit...anything is possible...
After my recently failed experiments I also came to the conclusion, that the electrostatics generated by a device like Toepler or Wimshurst is simply too weak to drive discs like the ones from the Testatika. The disc is still driven by high voltage and the laws of attraction/repulsion, but not by the high voltage produced in a Wimshurst-like way: instead I tend to agree with hcrs (http://www.hcrs.at/TESTA.HTM) that the power to drive the disc is high voltage produced by a common transformers - which means, they took part of their overunity to produce high voltage.
The Hcrs-guys distinguish 2 kinds of voltage: the one within the wire (like water in a pipe under pressure) and the one outside the wire (no pressure, gas-like). The one within the wire (high voltage produced by transformer using a common source) is much stronger compared to the one outside the wire (produced by Wimshurst). This would also apply to the observation from Marinov who claimed that the "drive" of the Testatikas was stronger than the usual electrostatic disc-runners. Also the the short video clip from the Methernita still remains correct, as they only claim that the discs work by the laws of electrostatic attraction or repulsion. And it would apply to the statement, that Baumann always said "this is not a Wimshurst".
Maybe this is relevant too (http://www.wanttoknow.info/methernitatestatika), as it could apply to the copper-perspex-alu plates between the horseshoe magnets: "It is known that if you heat perspex or lucite until soft to the touch, it becomes tacky and you then subject the heated mass to a high voltage field via means of metal plates on each side of the perspex mass and leave it there until the perspex is cool. Removing the applied high voltage charge, an electrostatic high voltage charge may still be continuously taken from those metal plates. Something like this also happens with the electrostatic microphones in modern tape recorders."
Could this be the secret of the Testatika?
These so called "electrets" could at least explain the high voltage from the Linden Experiment (700V) as well as the loud crack-noise produced in the "Testatika principle Experiment" - and the fact, that no one else could replicate these results because they were using simple plexiglass isolators.
And even if this would not be the source of energy somewhere it was mentioned (maybe the Potter article?) if they maybe tapped into the power of a magnet, e.g. like Floyd Sweet (http://www.panacea-bocaf.org/floydsweet.htm) which worked on the principle that they oscillated a magnet and thereby got induction effect without any moving parts - multiple kilowatts!
Unfortunately also information about him seems to be sparse...
Regarding the Sweet VTA, I met Floyd Sweet at his home in Desert Hot Springs California in the early nineties. He showed me roughly his method for conditioning magnets etc and told me how he had a one of his systems in a car which was being tested by some big car maker. After his death his widow Violet Sweet could find no trace of any system installed in any car or any details of his special magnet conditioning and concluded that the whole thing was a fabrication/scam and his demos was done with hidden AC sources etc. One of his tricks was to place a ceramic magnet weakly magnetised on the face of a television tube which produced various pretty patterns etc etc. but apart from that meant nothing... I would not waste time on that one..
Quote from: mikewatson on December 28, 2012, 02:44:13 PMAfter his death his widow could find no trace of any system installed in any car or any details of his special magnet conditioning and concluded that the whole thing was a fabrication/scam and his demos was done with hidden AC sources etc. One of his tricks was to place a ceramic magnet weakly magnetised on the face of a television tube which produced various pretty patterns etc etc. but apart from that...
This conclusion seems a bit too fast, after all I've read, because of one specific thing: what I've read about the device - the pattern how it behaves - applies to another invention more than 70 years ago: this was the "Magnetstromapparat" by Hans Coler. I've always wondered how this got its kilowatts output power (and dismissed it eventually thinking it was just a superawesome receiver from a radio station), but if Coler has released the power by magnet oscillation then it would suddenly make sense. Also both devices had to be finetuned before getting started and this was the difficult part. Both only required a small input load and afterwards delivered way overunity and usable power.
Quote from: mikewatson on December 28, 2012, 02:44:13 PMI would not waste time on that one..
It would definitely be a timewaster and I've not got the appropriate equipment unfortunately. Both Coler and Floyd accidentally stumbled upon this effect it seems. Guess we'd need some luck here too. The oscillated magnets are not the first stop, but reading that Floyds magnets were pulsed with high voltage there is a chance the Testatika also uses this effect.
Lately I charged up a double winded coil, each beginning of the wires I connected with an electrode of the Wimshurst, and both endings of the wires hanging around loosely (not connected, diameter of coil was 3 cm, 50 windings, default installation wire). As a consequence the coil charged up more and more. I accidentally touched both ends of the wire and got struck. It felt quite powerful, very much like the voltage from an electrified cattle fence (in comparison to the usual electrostatic lightnings which I remember as "stingy").
Nothing strange in here, but this double winded coil is a very good alternative to the Leyden Jars. It holds the separated charges very good. I don't know though what one can do with it. Though I tend to think that on the small Testatika the cube like arrangements on the left top/right top with the surrounding red wires looks like this type of "capacitor".
Edit: now that I think about it... if someone wants to create a little bit more distance between the 2 windings of such a "coil-cap" he could use a setup like the one shown in the bigger Testatika where (red colored cap-) wires are put around the legs of a U-shaped magnet. The distance between is quite large though...
(just monologuising here... is that a word?)
Regarding the Sweet VTA:-
If I remember correctly it was Tom Bearden who told me that the magnet(s) of the Sweet VTA got cool when the device was operating. Sweet told me that, Barium Ferrite magnets had to be used (strontium ferrite was useless) and they were substantially demagnetised before use to a few hundred Gauss from possible 3000 Gauss peak flux. It seems that Sweet only got one set of magnets to work. He would not let anyone move the VTA or touch it when in operation.
Tom Bearden held the view that the VTA was sucking energy from the vacuum. It is possible that Sweet did discover something but if so no one to date has rediscovered it. The VTA powered fuel-free car which he claimed seems to have been fiction.
The Coler Stromerzeuger B.I.O.S 1043 "The Invention of Hans Coler Relating to an Alleged New Source of Power" gives the full reports and analysis by various professors attempting to repeat it. The problem was that Coler did not understand it either:
on page 21 of the report, (year1943):-
" The apparatus was the subject of numerous examinations by scientists and practical engineers, who in their reports almost without exception, had to admit an energy surplus or energy multiplication without being able to explain the process by present knowledge. The inventor also could not give an explanation due to lack of sufficient knowledge of the activities of the apparatus.
Due to unpleasant differences with the financiers, mostly foreigners, and the nervous breakdown of Coler because of these, the apparatus and original theories were lost".
A number experiments are detailed in this document by various Profs, and they conclude it works from the Barkhausen effect (domain jumps).
No one explains where the excess energy came from.
I recently made a search for Testatika again, and found out that some films have been put on youtube which I previously haven't seen (but are from the interview which has been texted on some pages)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckWMc2l5urs&NR=1&feature=endscreen
Regarding from what I have read about the VTA and Sweet´s process to use high pulses to modify his Barium Ferrite magnets,
it seems, he just created very light moveable magnetic bubbles in the magnet material which
moved when some x-y coils were applied and with the z-coil he used the induction to generated the power.
As the x-y and z axis are all 90 degrees apart, the flow of output current did not drag down the exciter coils
on the x and y axis.
So it was a cool device to violate the Lenz law.
Also I met a guy on a German free energy conference some years ago,
who claimed to have used simular high voltage pulses with superimposed 50 Hz AC to build
some strange pole modulated permanent magnets.
When he used these magnets which seemed to have got a spiral magnet pattern on the outside,
on a ceramic nitrogen cooled superconductor lifting up these magnets,
these magnets began to spin themselves in the air due to these strange spiral fields they posseded.
So in my opinion the VTA was for real, but you had to have the exact good barium ferrite material to
make the right magnetic bubbles...
Maybe one should look into the manufacturing of the early magnet bubbles storage units for
computer memories, who also used this effect of moving magnetic bubbles when coils applied magnet fields...!
Regarding the Testatika:
Yes, The PR man Mr. Bosshard, who has not much knowledge of the technical side of the device and is more into
spiritual goals and bible stuff told me, that the key to the Testatika is in the crystals.
So I still think, Baumann has used electrets to generate the high voltage DC and pulsed this
high voltage on special mountain crystals containing pottassium K40 or other radioactive beta decay material
and this way charged up his Leyden jars to generate all this power.
Really just with electrostatics and electrets alone you would not get this high power output... !
Maybe just get a rotating disc,
but not 3 to 10 KWatts of output ! This can only be got from high voltage pulses excited radioactive decay processes !
I think this is also why they did not develop this further and they told us, that
it is dangerous, probably because the radiation was getting to high in the near surrounding.
It would be good, if somebody would talk again to Mr. Cathomen from the Methernitha Community,
cause he seems to be the one, who has helped Baumann to build all the units and he would
probably know most of the secrets how to build a Testatika.
But then you have to bypass Mr. Bosshard, who does not want anybody to get in contact with the members...
When I was about 3 years ago in Linden, I just was making a walk around near the community area, but nobody wanted
to speak with me and Mr. Bosshard, whom I called then, also said, that they don´t want any further people come to
see the Testatika and that since Baumann has died all work had stopped... which seemed to me an excuse to drive me away...
Regards, Stefan.
BTW, somebody asked me about my 1989 visit to Methernitha:
Well, yes it was some kind of a cult... I would say...but not a bad one..!
I was handed a medal as a member and was photographed with it in a strange holy room , something like a shrine.., and I should wear this medal all the time
as a new member... but I only stayed there for 3 days.
I thought about moving to Linden at this time, but they lived there too much isolated for a city boy like me
who was used to the Internet and all computer stuff...
The spiritual goals I liked, but you live there almost in
quietness, cause nobody speaks to each other during meal time...
So I had not much contact during this time to other people than Mr. Bosshard....
Just a quick hello to some other members but not much talks...
I wonder, how they interact which each other, maybe they have regular meetings, I just don´t know...
I did not ask this unfortunately and did not find out...
In the evenings I was alone in my guest room.
They just showed me during the 3 days there the
metal furniture factory and some other rooms,
but the holy room where I was photographed with the medal
was full of very big crystals like 10 Kg mountain stones which were cut and sawed open and showing these Juwels inside...
That was the time when Mr. Bosshard said to me, the secrets of the Testatika was in the crystals.
BTW, I never got the photo they took of me there, but I still
have the medal here somewhere...
When I find it, maybe I will post this... but maybe they don´t want this ?? Hmm...
Regards, Stefan.
BTw,
Here are some hidden camera interviews with Mr. Bosshard
which were taken by some other visitors:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIrXw_Ustc8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nWyMq0m1lg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emmZxSFTMQc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2oBDWjABj4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79lfCdKnXII
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9_2zQxMoXs
The first 3 are a bit noisy...
In the Methernitha holy room there were many
big 10 to 20 Kg crystal stones lying on the side tables like such a
cutted amethyst crystal rock one:
http://www.thecrystalrockstore.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/1200x1000/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/f/i/file_21_29.jpg
These were the collections from Paul Baumann and his community.
Regards, Stefan.
Hi Stefan,
regarding the Testatika and properties of certain "mountain crystals" Stefan Marinov said the same thing to me after his visit to Methernita. As I said in a previous post Baumann was a watch and clock maker and during that time he would have used luminous paint which, in those days, was activated by radium bromide and was available in a bottle. On ebay there are old luminous instrument dials from ww2 era which were painted using the same type of radioactive paint.
US Patent 5076971 Barker 1991, mentions the use of high voltage from an electroststic machine to enhance alpha decay in radioactive materials also William Barbat Pat app US2007/0007844, Jan. 2007. and:- http://www.levitronicsenergy.com/science.htm (http://www.levitronicsenergy.com/science.htm) . also mentions Leimer intesifying radio signal with radium http://www.nuenergy.org/pdf/radium_radio_intensifier.pdf (http://www.nuenergy.org/pdf/radium_radio_intensifier.pdf), so there does seem to be some evidence for the possibility that the Testatika is a radiactively powered device.
Mike
I sometimes wonder if the principle behind the Testatika is simpler than the brain imagines...
How about following:
Let's assume we have some kind of coil capacitor (e.g. a coil consisting of a double winded coil) which stores electrostatical potential.
Now, how could we get power from it? Simply discharging against the load won't do the trick. But what if we could "move" the charge to another place and then back, aka "vibrating" the charge? Could this produce impulses strong enough for an electromagnetic induction effect?
As the source is electrostatic power it might need less power to "move" than we get as eletromagnetic power. They are at least not the same type of energy.
Just theorizing though... I guess I need to think about this more thoroughly....
Hi guys,
You might check on http://www.overunity.com/12736/kapanadze-cousin-dally-free-energy/msg360159/#msg360159 (http://www.overunity.com/12736/kapanadze-cousin-dally-free-energy/msg360159/#msg360159) because it calls back right onto Testatika key secret in http://peswiki.com/index.php/PowerPedia:Testatika (http://peswiki.com/index.php/PowerPedia:Testatika) :
"The horseshoe magnet contain four blocks of plexiglass-type media (p) alternated with copper (c) and aluminium (a) plates (in the series, c-p-a-c-p-a). It is unknown if these are perforated. This phenomenon is related to variable capacitance generation (http://peswiki.com/index.php?title=Variable_capacitance_generation&action=edit) and dielectric absorpsion (http://peswiki.com/index.php?title=Dielectric_absorpsion&action=edit). Two horseshoe magnets with metalised-perspex laminated blocks alternated with copper and aluminium plates form, what various sources call, "electron cascade generators". The electron cascade (http://peswiki.com/index.php?title=Electron_cascade&action=edit) (or avalanche effect (http://peswiki.com/index.php?title=Avalanche_effect&action=edit)) is a chain reaction forming 'free electrons'. Insulated wire is also wound around the horseshoe magnets (which may also be in a bifilar configuration) for induction purposes. "
In http://youtu.be/dPm31Zv9Ujk?t=1m11s (http://youtu.be/dPm31Zv9Ujk?t=1m11s) the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secondary_emission (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secondary_emission) like effect on piezzo element is right before your eyes for years and it is power source for the rest of circuit.
Good luck with successful replications!
The recent academic paper by Lochak on his discovery of a low mass magnetic monopole could be a good candidate for the source of energy for the Testatika. Lochak's monopole is a magnetically charged neutrino and may be produced by Beta emitters in a magnetic field, either N or S charge. The original paper is in French:-[/font][/font]
[/font][/font]
"The Magnetic monopole is not a Myth"[/font]
It has an equation, experiements and planned applications.[/font]
by Georges Lochak[/font]
Fondation Louis de Broglie 23, rue Marsoulan 75012 Paris[/font]
e-mail: inst.louisdebroglie @ free.fr[/font]
[/font]
Abstract: The magnetic monopole is a particle with a single magnetic charge north or south, not two opposite charges like a magnet. This often regarded as a myth, but it is a reality, there is now a theory, due to the author of these lines, with equations and accurate predictions supported by hundreds of experiments where the result show different possible applications areas such as clean energy, medicine and even space exploration.[/font]
But this is not the monopole that was expected. We expected a heavy particle, and it is a light particle, we expected these barbaric-excuses that it is "a charged boson with strong interactions," while it is in fact it is "a fermion endowed with weak interactions. " But the theory agrees with the experiment, as we show in simple terms.[/font]
Science is woven of endless controversies, clashes between opposing conceptions sometimes end up together, definitive oversights and triumphant resurgence: the monopole Magnetic is no exception. At the time of this writing, looking up the word "monopole" on Google, they say "it is never observed," but the word "Lochak monopole" is cited in articles which sets up another theory, and describes experiments where applications point to the new energy research, medicine and etc. (end of extract).
The Lochak monopole is produced by arcs and sparks as well as by beta emitters in the presence of a north or south magnetic pole.
The effect of radioactive sources on radio reception, so called radium radio intensfier (Bemier "The Electrical Experimenter Oct 1916" has been quoted before) also Hubbard, Hendershot, Moray etc. becomes more understandable, the solution to the problem lies in the up to now undiscovered magnetic monopole.
Hi Folks,
I have a shop-bought Wimshurst machine. I was intrigued by the 'UHF transformers' in the Testatika, and I wondered if it somehow generated radio waves... I bought it for my son, and we've both noticed that when we play with it - it kills the TV signal.
So I hooked up some wire to the 'scope, put it near the Wimshurst, and started turning...
I don't know if it's an artifact from the 'scope, but the machine seems to produce a wide variety of high frequency pulses - in all ranges - up to Ghz. Interestingly, some of the pulses persist after the machine has stopped - for a few seconds.
I tried a few time-ranges, and there seems to be a clear repeating pattern.
I need to do more tests, but I thought I'd share & post in the meantime...
:)
Tim
Hello,
You can follow my early realization of Testatica this address:
http://www.conspirovniscience.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1361&st=0&#entry35465
I'm almost sure of success, the secret is in the magnets and blocks of Plexiglas.
instead of the wheel, I will use a Very High Voltage Generator.
I expect the supplier of copper sheet.
To be continued ...
P.S. Sorry if I copied my post from another topic, I saw the topic too late.
Sorry guys, I just took a peek in to this section. I do not know about Testatika much But would I be wrong if the basic principle is the Wimshurst machine generating the static electricity, leyden jar as a capacitor and something like Gorey's power tube to generate useful electricity from the sparks? In the case of using HV transformer it would be like Don Smith device :) I think the success is in extremely short pulses.
Quote from: John.K1 on September 17, 2013, 02:32:48 PM
Sorry guys, I just took a peek in to this section. I do not know about Testatika much But would I be wrong if the basic principle is the Wimshurst machine generating the static electricity, leyden jar as a capacitor and something like Gorey's power tube to generate useful electricity from the sparks? In the case of using HV transformer it would be like Don Smith device :) I think the success is in extremely short pulses.
Seems you did not read previous posts - http://www.overunity.com/2223/source-of-energy-testatika/msg360205/#msg360205
The secret is in piezzo element which is polarized by magnets and doing secondary emission-like effect under high voltage for injection of free electrons (which means amperes) into high voltage circuit. Then the resulting mix is simple Volts multiplied by amps.
T-1000 : Your right- I didn't read previous :) I will take a look later. Did you think about Electret? I do believe it might play quite important role here - polarized plastic with permanent electric charge ? On other hand, now I realized the Quartz crystals are also Electret.
It is interesting how many things has something common , like - Crystal batteries (you polarise them when you make them) , pyramid generator made of polarized quartz crystals (very good tutorial how to build it on YouTube - functional one), now Testatica. I will not build this device , I just try to understand basic of hidden energy principles and looking for many similarities and hope to find some pieces of information I can put together to make something working.
So after another topic about electrostatics I came back here to write down some thoughts (which most likely have been covered already by some people here, but I can't remember).
Now I believe that the U-shaped magnets of the Testatika are in fact NO MAGNETS at all, but simple ferrite bars. Simple fucking ferrite (or similar) cores. They act as the cores of a "Flyback" transformer to transform impulses from a spark gap. This also means, that only 1 wire is attached to it and its wire ending is open. Principally they could have used stick-shaped cores as well. It just seems to be more practical having a U-shaped bar. I came to this conclusion, because initially I planned a O-shaped transformer core, which is unnecessary.
The most primitive act would be to discharge the +/- potential coming from a Wimshurst-like disc in a spark gap. From each end of the spark gap a single wires leads to one of the U-shaped cores. Each winding induces a magnetic field into the specific core and thereby transforms the impulses on its own. Principally the second windings (these are winded as usual) from each of the 2 cores would deliver us AC already. Now we could rectify the AC from both cores and put each result into 2 caps. These 2 caps we could again be switched into parallel to get double amperage. Does this sound viable?
Important note is that: usually the impulses are quite weak if the spark gap is close. Hardly strong enough to magnetise a core. So I assume they most likely use magnetically quenched spark gaps - which - I am just guessing here - enhances the amperage, making the impulses stronger. I previously had no idea how to quench spark gaps, until I saw this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwVvHgbJdzA) which showed that you can put the magnet very close (and I really mean VERY CLOSE) to the spark (just need an isolator in between to prevent the spark jump on the magnets). Also the spark gap itself can be quite close together. It is said the spark makes a much more popping sound.
Didn't one of the principle experiments create a huge popping sound when someone turned the crank back and forth a couple of times? A sound much more popping than a usual discharge?
Also it should be noted that on their flyback transformers they use not much windings. I always thought and experimented with a bazillion windings on the one side and fewer windings on the other side to "transform-down" the high voltage. This was completely WRONG THINKING. Because you can't transform a potential. You can only transform impulses. And these can only come from a spark gap.
The funny thing is, in my original air-coils-transformer (which had a bazillion thin wire windings on the one end and fewer but thicker windings on the other end) - I got "stronger" impulses: but now I realized that was simply and only out of the reason that the bazillion windings acted as a "charge-holder" (almost like a Leyden jar) - therefore it took minimally longer to charge it up - therefore the spark was stronger - therefore the impulse was stronger.
So back to where I was: in the Testatika you see quite a thick wires on the flyback transformer. In my opinion this is required as the impulses are enhanced by magnetic quench. A thinner wire would be worse and have too much resistance for decent amperage flow. It somehow fits together... I still doubt, it'll provide enough to output power, but you'll never know...
Have you seen this replication of the Testatika ( by Jorge Resines?)
http://rimstar.org/sdenergy/testa/testareplicationjr.htm
Mike
Hello, it's Elena from Testatika Yahoo-group here.
Mike and everybody, those photos of Jorge Resines's replica are around the Web since 10 years or so.
It was known to be a fake.
I can also point out (as I did elsewhere) that 100% it is from Italy, because of the mains sockets
you see in background. Some power cable must be hidden somewhere, coming perhaps from the
right corner. Also the very fact of taking a shot of the alleged replica right near an unused socket should
be taken clearly as a distracting factor (no need to be a psychiatrist for that ;)
As for the rest... please everybody keep in mind that all data and clues we have officially collected about
the Testatika on the Yahoo group seem indicating quite unequivocally that the source of energy are AIR
IONS. Thus in the light of this fact I always refused (until a strong counter proof) to contemplate
alternative explanations as radioactivity or even exotic energy sources like zpe, aether, neutrinos,
gravity fields, etc.
As for the crystals... yes, it's a matter of fact also their statement of some secret being hidden in the
crystals, but that could simply relate to their piezoelectric or even ferroelectric properties, not
necessarily radioactivity. And perhaps, once the principle is known, they could even be not so strictly
necessary for it to work.
Hello Elena,
Yes I am aware this Jorge Resines testatika, has been around for some time. I have heard that Resines himself is dead. He used to write for Borderlands from time to time.
I knew Stefan Marinov well, he told me Baumann (the then head of the Methernita inner circle) said he would tell him the secret provided he agreed to keep knowledge of the workings of the testatika secret, he refused.
Marinov was a believer in OU despite having been an assistant physics professor in the university of Graz for a time.
Marinov told me that when he mentioned to Baumann that the testatika was an OU device and a great scientific discovery, Baumann retorted, words to the effect that perpetual motion and was impossible.
Mike
I believe that source of energy are not ions but the way you speed them up.... ::)
Quote from: mikewatson on December 07, 2013, 10:40:06 AM
Hello Elena,
Marinov told me that when he mentioned to Baumann that the testatika was an OU device and a great scientific discovery, Baumann retorted, words to the effect that perpetual motion and was impossible.
Mike, yes I know Marinov's story quite well, just can you explain me better your sentence above ?
Quote from: forest on December 07, 2013, 12:38:43 PM
I believe that source of energy are not ions but the way you speed them up.... ::)
What would you suggest with that smiley then... ? :)
Are perhaps you thinking of the magnets ? Magnets can't do work (as for plain science)...
Quote from: Hel on December 07, 2013, 12:54:55 PM
What would you suggest with that smiley then... ? :)
Are perhaps you thinking of the magnets ? Magnets can't do work (as for plain science)...
I only point to misunderstaning...you can have a bottle full of pressurised air but it's not the air which is energy inside. The same about capacitors or condensers as were known in the past.
Quote from: forest on December 07, 2013, 02:46:11 PM
I only point to misunderstaning...you can have a bottle full of pressurised air but it's not the air which is energy inside. The same about capacitors or condensers as were known in the past.
Ah, that's ok then. As for me, I think I actually understand things quite well. Ions actually represent
potential energy, which is given back every time they neutralize again to form neutral atoms. If one
just could collect them (possibly without increasing their potential too much, since that would be
additional work from the outside), and then let them merge together in a controlled, sorted manner,
one could get energy from the current obtained. Order from chaos... like a kind of Maxwell's demon.
I figure it out this way at least.
how can you collect them if they repel each other due to the same electrical polarity ? work has to be done to collect them and work has to be done to move them
Quote from: forest on December 08, 2013, 03:16:15 AM
how can you collect them if they repel each other due to the same electrical polarity ? work has to be done to collect them and work has to be done to move them
I know that perfectly, of course; I would have already understood the Principle otherwise :)
Some trick must exist, though. I've been crashing my mind against this puzzle for years...
Nevertheless, I can't think all their statements about air electricity are lies, expecially those made
initially when they were still inadvertitely a bit too opened to explanations and shows...
And it can't definitely be matter of discharging those excess positive (fair weather) or negative (bad
weather) ions to ground, like in Plauson's or Tesla's apparatuses, because the Testatika lacks any
form of ground connection !
We also had collected further info from Albert Hauser, thanks to a member of our group who managed
to exchange some emails with him recently. Hauser was told that after some time of working in a closed
room, doors and windows should be opened for the Testatika to continue working. He was also told
(literally) that the big pots are to store positive and negative ions respectively (yes, that Baumann
told him, it makes few sense, but we know they perhaps knew physics only intuitively). Then we have
some reported words from Bosshard, vague, rather unscientific words, but which are key concepts for
me: he was speaking of the same principle of tornadoes, i.e a law aiming for order directed to the center,
which was a revelation for him when he understood it, a principle sorting out useful energy from random
motion. Bosshard also talked of "letting electrons go where they want". He also spoke of Osmosis, you
know, that force which counterbalances pressure to allow for entropy increasing. And I/we drew the
parallel with the Contact Potential effect, which cause charges to migrate from two different metals
with different electronegativity causing an external E-field to be present, and it is not a case that
Baumann always used copper and aluminium for his experiments ! Just, I/we couldn't make 2+2 yet.
In Marinov's Deutsche Physik, C. Monstein reported some experiments with a wimshurst machine concerning the Rowland effect in relation to the Testatika (the production of a magnetic field by a moving electric charge) "Wimshurstmascine beeinflusst lokales ErdmagnetfeldDeutche Physik vol 4 number 15".
"Monstein's observations are highly interesting. If they are authentic, they signify that that the electric charge on a wimshurst machine is 1000 times higher when the machine rotates with respect to the charge when it is at rest (at the same tension)]
Thus one has to assume that the Wimshurst machine has two capacities: a static one, C (stat) calculated by the well-known formula and a dynamic one, Cdyn ' which is much higher, and is due to the special construction of the machine. If this is true, then the electric energy pumped in a rotating wimshurst machine U(e) = !/2 Cdyn U2 where U is the respective tension will be very large and larger than the mechanical energy invested...."
I have not tried Monstein's experiment myself. However it could be that some sort of physical anomaly like this was discovered by Baumann. Unfortunately Baumann is dead and his secret may have died with him.
Mike
Mike, what you told is interesting. The problem is, Marinov, as we learnt, was too unscientifically
biased towards his ideas against energy conservation (IIRC he realized and admitted his faults only
later in life, before death). I frankly have already seen a couple of cases where he made wrong
interpretations of physical experiments seeing overunity in electrostatics, but those were just mistakes
of him. One example is his long argumentation in the first part of TWT-V about supposed overunity
effects in the Toepler machine, which I definitely studied and felt to discard (unfortunately!).
Another example (thanks to a member of our group for his translations from German !!!) is a statement
he made in an Italian article (http://digilander.libero.it/altraenergia/testa1.html), where he reported
that Poggendorff realized some violation of energy conservation in an electrostatic motor able to
recharge its HV capacitor - well, from studying that German Poggendorff's paper, our member concluded
that Marinov once again either didn't understand the paper, or he had serious physics lacunae.
Just add that to all the devices he built which would have allegedly violated some extablished physics
principle. Thus, the only thing I can trust of Marinov is his first person experience with the Testatika and
the honesty with which he admitted he couldn't graps the principle.
I would like to read personally the papers you mentioned though, but once more I have to give up
because I can't read German... as for now, I can just suspect it's about some measurement errors
with the resulting magnetic field. Since the Rowland effect is usually so weak and so hard to measure
without proper tools, they might have failed even by some orders of magnitude to measure it, assuming
perhaps a larger value, which mathematically standed for a larger charge density than actually is...
Hi Hel,
The experiment was done by Christian Monstein not Marinov. It was just reported in Deutsche Physik. Attached is a pdf of one page of it showing the experimental setup used by Monstein.
I would suggest that Monstein's method is not trivial and had little to do with Marinov's belief in overunity/ampere bridge/Prof. Pappas etc etc.
Mike
A few remarks. Anyone know Paul Potter ..?
The plexiglass and magnets may be a mockup to hide the, as always, Tesla basis..!
And what are the basics of a generator ? Just an alternating magnetfield to a coil.
Why it works ? Nobody really knows what a magnetfield is. But we all know how
to make it work.
What if. What if this device works with an unknown principle ? Component x.
If a technician hates one thing it is the unknown. Therefore they come with all
those digital/field/etc nonsense, because they wanna think they understand
electro physics. Well they don't. What did we learn from the above ..? ???
Indeed, I believe everybody has seen the back-engineered sketches from Potter. But even if someone would just build it 1:1 after these notes, I doubt it would work. It's created by observation, best guess and electricians background - which is good - but in this case not enough. The core working principle is still missing :(
Hi Mike,
thank you very much for attaching the related paper.
Unfortunately, as I told you, I can't read German. I tried with an OCR but without luck.
I will possibly put it on our Testatika yahoo groups in case somebody is available for a translation there.
In the meanwhile, I strongly invite you to subscribe there, if you're really interested in the Testatika, you
would also gain access to lots of original material, and any contributions from you will be very useful and
appreciated of course.
Yes, I understood the experiment was by Monstein and not by Marinov. What I meant is, Marinov could
just have deemed it a proof of his OU 'rants' and then he published it to bring further credibility to his
theories, while the experiment itself might actually contain good-faith wrong assumptions due to
measurements error. Just a guess without having been able to read it yet, of course :)
Nevertheless, every strange reported fact about electrostatic machines is very interesting to me,
because - even if I don't believe OU without external energy incoming - I admit those devices
are very few understood and studied even today.
Quote from: Eniac5state on December 09, 2013, 01:07:10 PM
A few remarks. Anyone know Paul Potter ..?
As I said I have not the truth (unfortunately) so I can't comment the rest.
But... please EVERYONE stay away from those Potter's schematics, the same is true for any other
alleged Testatika schematics you may find around. Simply NOBODY knows the schematic !
Also I can confirm that in particular Potter's ones are a complete, absolute nonsense !!!
I can tell you that, since I'm perhaps the person who studied the available pictures of the machines
as nobody else did. The wiring scheme (or the 3KW machine at least) is ways simpler. Feel free to
ask me (or to join the Testatika yahoogroup) if you have doubts. The only things we can't know is
what is inside the pots, and how exactly the horseshoes magnets are wired with the so called
CPACPA stacks.
Quote from: Hel on December 09, 2013, 05:30:23 PM
I can tell you that, since I'm perhaps the person who studied the available pictures of the machines
as nobody else did. The wiring scheme (or the 3KW machine at least) is ways simpler. Feel free to
ask me (or to join the Testatika yahoogroup) if you have doubts. The only things we can't know is
what is inside the pots, and how exactly the horseshoes magnets are wired with the so called
CPACPA stacks.
As I already pointed out http://www.overunity.com/2223/source-of-energy-testatika/msg360205/#msg360205 (http://www.overunity.com/2223/source-of-energy-testatika/msg360205/#msg360205) (and this was been tested in another experiment involving high voltage + piezzo element stimulated by magnets mix so it release electrons into circuit - and this make amperes) there is possibility to gain lots of amperes while already high voltage is in place. Then multiply volts by amps and there is power... ;) It is shame nobody else even tried to repeat that experiment.
Quote from: Eniac5state on December 09, 2013, 01:07:10 PM
A few remarks.
The plexiglass and magnets may be a mockup to hide the, as always, Tesla basis..!
And what are the basics of a generator ? Just an alternating magnetfield to a coil.
Why it works ? Nobody really knows what a magnetfield is. But we all know how
to make it work.
What if. What if this device works with an unknown principle ? Component x.
If a technician hates one thing it is the unknown. Therefore they come with all
those digital/field/etc nonsense, because they wanna think they understand
electro physics. Well they don't. What did we learn from the above ..? ???
The first pages here are excellent !. So simplify the P Potter schematic and you find the
Grey, Kapanadze, Tesla principle. What needed is how was Tesla educated ?
Lost science here ;) And component x could consist of again three components. :D
Could we first name them and work from there ? Tesla was just an engineer who
wasn't distracted by all sorts of bycases. Discard this and you will get stalled.
Like all those years wasted in 1000's of useless forum messages.
What ? Discard German texts because you can't read them ??
Then you don't belong here. I'm sorry.
hint: think of Tesla's remarks of what is electricity ? Americans can boil things
down to the basics. Well ? Throw a ball up..
(conclusion here found; Tesla worked on basis of his education)
The thing about "air pressure" got me to think. Is the logic in the following picture viable?
Hello Elena.
At page 1 here we read that Lycanthropists own words: I'm going to be posting the whole 9 yards on the Yahoo Testatika Group page, starting in about a week
How did that go ??
We all want to know as you can imagine. Has Lycanthropist kept his word ?
Quote from: Eniac5state on December 12, 2013, 11:06:40 AM
Hello Elena.
At page 1 here we read that Lycanthropists own words: I'm going to be posting the whole 9 yards on the Yahoo Testatika Group page, starting in about a week
How did that go ??
We all want to know as you can imagine. Has Lycanthropist kept his word ?
Good question :) But not easy to answer with few words.
That guy appeared to have actually joined the Testatika group at that time, where he came out with his
reports of his experiments. But at the end I suspect he was just another crackpot (well I HATE using
such bad words but when it's the case...). What is strange enough is that he sounded a bit different
from how he sounded here. Here he was acting like the usual guy who "I had understood things you
can't even imagine, but since it's my own work, I won't reveal the details, I will just give you clues".
How do you call them ? Me, crackpots. Then, on the Testatika group he acted slightly different, i.e as
one who actually admitted he perhaps had some interesting ideas but at the end he was still trying
to replicate some fundamentals - i.e he at the end didn't know pretty anything. Even if I must admit,
I always found his reasonings stimulating. At that stage he was trying to downstep HV from a Wimshurst
machine to drive the little motor - and that by using very ingenious and original means. He admitted
he was very close to make it self-running but at the end he could not yet. Then he also was telling of
his (allegedly) encouraging experiences at replicating the wirewound magnet experiment (Linden
Experiment) or a similar thing. He suggested using a hard steel bar (like a printer shaft), bent in a U
shape, wounded by an anti-inductive coil (first half coiled CW, second half coiled CCW). He told that
the bar had to be magnetized by applying current to that precise coil, and then a little lightbulb could
be powered from it. Then he disappeared... or just he changed his nickname and we couldn't track
it anymore... of course you may join the Testatika Yahoo group if you like to read all those interesting
(but possibly distracting) messages by him...
/&
Quote from: T-1000 on December 09, 2013, 05:49:57 PM
As I already pointed out http://www.overunity.com/2223/source-of-energy-testatika/msg360205/#msg360205 (http://www.overunity.com/2223/source-of-energy-testatika/msg360205/#msg360205) (and this was been tested in another experiment involving high voltage + piezzo element stimulated by magnets mix so it release electrons into circuit - and this make amperes) there is possibility to gain lots of amperes while already high voltage is in place. Then multiply volts by amps and there is power... ;) It is shame nobody else even tried to repeat that experiment.
May I... ?
If you think you have some founded clues or theory, why don't you try to summarize your idea here and
completely ? Never fear to waste some words... following your link chain I read of avalanche effect,
NMR induced nuclear reacions, dielectric absorption, magnets, variable capacitance, etc. Everything.
Would you be so kind then to make 2+2 for us poor mortals ? :)
The Meternitha propaganda video tells some key statements for me, by using their own words but which
it's to us to decipher giving them a scientific sense:
-The 2 counter rotating disks generate an electrostatic charge
-One disk represents the earth, the other the cloud
-Using grid electrodes the charges are bound
-After that they are collected by non-contacting so-called "antenna keys" and then SORTED
...
-By means of grid condensers the energy is stored and then uniformly discharged...
-...at the same time reducing the high voltage...
-...and BUILDING UP POWER WITH ADDITIONAL DEVICES
This last sentence is intriguing. It seems suggesting pretty that: disks give low power HV, while
additional devices (the horseshoe magnets and little pots ?) "build up power". Now we are quite
sure they never use terms like energy and power properly, but well the meaning is that one.
That would suggest right that: a simple multiplication of voltage by current. But that is against
elementary science and I can't accept. However, keep in mind that (in the 3KW machine at
least) the circuit with magnets is connected in PARALLEL with the disk output going to the big pots.
Quote from: Hel on December 12, 2013, 05:50:38 PM
This last sentence is intriguing. It seems suggesting pretty that: disks give low power HV, while
additional devices (the horseshoe magnets and little pots ?) "build up power". Now we are quite
sure they never use terms like energy and power properly, but well the meaning is that one.
That would suggest right that: a simple multiplication of voltage by current. But that is against
elementary science and I can't accept.
Apply high voltage (in this case from electrostatic source) on piezo element and amplify effect with magnetic field from magnets and here you have Secondary Electron Emission (http://htx.pppl.gov/project/see.html) .. No physics laws are broken just the use is unconventional for gaining amperage in high voltage circuit.
'Hel' disqualified herself with this statement:"But that is against
elementary science and I can't accept. " Right ! How unscientific !
gauschor, you are one of the few here who have the right attitude
to reach something. I've read your post but where is ingredient x ?
Where does x enter the circuit ?
It took me years to realize that Tesla only hinted ! :-\ The man made a puzzle of the device.
How realistic is it that watchmaker Baumann invented free energy ? Somebody must
have told him. It is all offspring from the Tesla invention.
I have read in a german forum: Es sind die Dinge hinter den Dingen die die Dinge geschehen lassen.
*The scientist asks questions; the technicians only search for confirmation.
Quote from: Eniac5state on December 13, 2013, 01:16:26 PM
'Hel' disqualified herself with this statement:"But that is against
elementary science and I can't accept. " Right ! How unscientific !
BYE.
Go on with your science, then, and good luck.
The earlier Testatika was a single disk machine. Marinov was given this small single disk machine to play with. Baumann was present. Marinov said that the disk had to be spun manually to start the machine. When running the disk resisted being stopped from spinning, but with light friction on the rim the disk would suddenly stall. When running, the machine would generate several watts output. There no sectors as such. just bits of wire threaded through the (single) disk in the form of a "U" with the two limbs of the "U" passing though the disk and then flattend radially on the other side.
As I said in a previous post Baumann insisted (when questioned by Marinov) that the testatika was not a perpetual motion machine.
The attached file (of unknown origin) was on the internet at one time and showed a version of the Testatika using Radium Chloride. Baumann was a watchmaker and at that time (and during WW2) radium doped paint was used for luminous clock dial and hands.
Mike
Sigh... I guess we all rotate in circles every once in a while. Since the word "piezo" has fallen, I read something like this:
QuoteCeramic multilayer generators are built up with a number of thin ceramic layers sandwiched between internal electrodes, resulting in a low output voltage but high current compared to conventional single layer piezoelectric generators.
Has anyone experience with this or better said: can we pulse/stimulate a *multilayer* piezo with static electricity from a Wimshurst strong enough so it delivers the output we need?
A possibility is that Baumann discovered the Lochak Magnetic monopole charge which is simply produced by a beta emitter in a magnetic field or more correctly the discovery that the neutrino which accompanies beta emission can become a magnetic monopole when close to a the pole of a common magnet:-
Quote from the Prof. Lochak paper:-
The magnetic monopole is not a myth!
It has an equation, experiences and plans applications.
Georges Lochak
Fondation Louis de Broglie 23, rue Marsoulan 75012 Paris e-mail: inst.louisdebroglie @ free.fr
Abstract: The magnetic monopole is a particle with a single magnetic charge north or south, not
two opposite charges like a magnet. There is often a myth, but in reality, there is now a theory, due to the author of these lines, with equations and accurate predictions...
further quote from the George Lochak paper:-
" A phone call from Moscow.
I am fluent in Russian and I received one day in Moscow, a phone call from a physicist I do not know, Leonid Urutskoiev the Kurchatov Institute, returning from a long mission in Chernobyl at the head of a team that sought the origin of the disaster.
After ten years of observations too long to relate here, he hypothesized a flood of monopoles, from an electrical explosion (which occurred in the engine room). The flow would spread by the cooling circuit of the reactor, initiating acceleration of the nuclear process while it was being shut down to change the uranium rods.
Urutskoiev told me immediately that he thought it was "my" monopole, relying on a series of amazing events, starting with the runaway disintegration, but there were also violent attraction of electric line to the cooling system, from which came the idea of extraordinary magnetic excited enrichment of uranium debris, up to 27% Uranium 235, while the bars were only 1.1% (!) lifting and tilting on the side of the reactor cover weighing 2500 tons, so that the walls (even internal) were
intact, thus excluding gas pressure and did look for other causes, including possible change of the
gravitational field, there was again a dazzling light that was not due to a fire in the reactor, because the internal paint and graphite were intact (except in one place). All these very unusual events gave some clues for Urutskoiev to look boldly at a light magnetic monopole...."
End of quote
Baumann could have accumulated a magnetic charge provided by magnetically excited neutrinos emanated from a good beta emitter such as radium bromide doped luminous paint placed in a common magnetic field. These magnetic charges presumably act in a similar manner to electric charges producing opposite pole magnetic charge induction in iron objects close by.
Potassium chloride (salt substitute) is naturally beta radioactive (and consequent neutrino emitter) due to the presence of K40 and I have been searching for magnetic charge from that...
The need to let these magnetic charges build up may be why the the testatika did not seem to run continuously.
Mike
What if the segments of the disc did not have individual charges - but the WHOLE disc was charged with one potential? I've always wondered why there weren't any discharges between the segments being so close to each other - and this could be the reason. Also the video says: "one disc is the earth, the other disc is the cloud". So one whole disc is (-), one whole disc is (+). Maybe the metal grids are just additional constructions for whatever... "to hold the charge onto the disc" so the disc doesn't lose to much charge, but in the end both disc could have different potential - unlike a Wimshurst which has both charges mixed on both discs and only on small segments.
You know: the small segments alone would not have much charge, but 2 discs fully charged could store a lot more energy.
Though I got no further idea on how to use 2 oppositely charged discs rotating contrary to each other to gain energy---
Gauschor, I mostly tend to think also that one disk is positive while the other negative, just like cloud and earth. Also, neither the single disk little machine nor the 3KW machine could work the way common
ES machines do (Wimshurts, Pidgeon, Dirod...) because of the strange way they're wired up. So the
two disks could actually collect positive and negative air ions respectively. The only issue is that in the
3KW machine each side collector key appears all the ways making a single piece with the rear and the
front ones, or at least being electrically interconnected (as it would be in a plain Wimshurst machine), and
believe me I'm perhaps one of the few ones who spent so much time by carefully studying those details in
an almost forensic way... so every collecting key would simply short the "ground" and the "cloud". Here's
the puzzle !
-Elena
Coming from the C-Stack topic in the forum (http://www.overunity.com/14770/4-plate-capacitor/) (a setup where the source battery may not be depleted) I thought maybe this is another hint how the Testatika could work. Baumann said in one interview the trick is to keep the voltage alive. And exactly in there http://jnaudin.free.fr/cstack/index.htm (http://jnaudin.free.fr/cstack/index.htm) at the last picture (also attached, copied from website) and paragraph is a setup that could explain the principle.
So on the one hand we have a high voltage source. It rises within the flash tubes until it comes to a discharge impulse which then is transmitted via a C-Capacitor to the inner plates. The author says, the result was more intense at the output.
Edit: Oh wait... a discharge... damnit! A discharge means it has to rise again slowly...
The stacked capacitors always fascinated me and I built many and I experimented with them in the
past, but I really don't see how such a device could differ electronically from a "capacitor network",
to follow the author's jargon. A four plates C-stack works in no way differently than three identical
capacitors connected in series, whose four ends (both the final and the intermediate ones) are
accessible and employed. That's at least what I can say of my first hand experience with them.
I don't see how having the common plates made as two electrically connected plates rather than
a shared one may make any difference. I can witness the transformer effect of course, the fact that
it appears being a resonance frequency at which the output is maximized, either if you apply the
signal to the inner or the other plates, or even to the first and third ones... I really see nothing strange
here and nothing different than by using three normal capacitors as I descrived above.
The issue with the drawing from Cris Paltenghe and his implementation is that the 'HV' supply reported
is actually an AC one, since it was harvested from a plasma ball or such gadget. Perhaps the author
forgot this fact, marking the only one output with a plus sign, as he perhaps ignores that every HV
supply actually has TWO outputs, and while he could have not noticed the second output, it was
unavoidably capacitively-coupled with ground - so anyway the drawing is wrong/incomplete.
Also it is not clear how such a setup can work being driven by AC without diodes or other rectification
means - he SHOULD have explained that better at least. Any parasitic capacitance to ground or to other
parts should have been contemplated and also drawn correctly and mentioned.
Anyway, always bear in mind that the Testatika has NEITHER GROUND CONNECTIONS NOR AERIALS !
So, if even some C-stack is employed there, possibly also with different metals (like Cu and Al, as it
seems) - and I even tend to believe that - it is definitely employed in some very different manner.
Funny devices the C-stacks, though :)
Elena you are 100 percent right.
So there is one conclusion remaining to be drawn with respect to the Testatika: it is a hoax. And I say this, being personally acquainted with several people who have actually visited Methernitha back in the Baumann days and actually held the small one in hand, while it was working, or so they tell me.
The resemblance to conventional electrostatic induction machines is the Big Red Herring of the Testatika story. As you point out, Baumann had claimed that one disk is "earth" and the other "cloud"... but in a Wimshurst or Bonetti or Dirod device, it is the lateral halves of the machine that are "ground" and "cloud" or positive and negatively charged. Only this type of machine can use the "curling around" style of pickups and sprayers, because as you point out, a machine that had oppositely charged discs front and back would be instantly shorted out by these wrap-around structures which are critical for Bonetti and Wimshurst and Dirod and other machines of the type. The small single disc machine is obviously not working as a Dirod (an analog to the Wimshurst with but a single "disk" made up of the rods -- DIsk-ROD).
And it is clear, by examining all the small sharp points and edges on the "real" Testatika, that it could never itself store or generate the high voltages needed for electrostatic induction to operate.
Whatever the Testatika might really be, it is most definitely NOT an electrostatic induction machine like Wimshurst, Bonetti, Dirod etc.
You might be amused by some of my electrostatic explorations. Here is my Moore's Dirod in action:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxEpSX2Hd54 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxEpSX2Hd54)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpemKuf6X_c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpemKuf6X_c)
Should have been called eddy current collector, there is a coil in the center of the wheel.
What must first be considered is that machines of this type have no official mode of operation. By simply relocating the pickups and cross-members one can change the location and/or polarities of such charges. While, traditionally, the machines take on a bi-lateral configuration, this can be split into 4, 6, 8 or any such division of the disk surfaces, or completely isolated onto the surfaces of one disk, while the other cycles through +/- across its' surface. (Pidgeon Machine). With a sufficient sink, one can draw a countably infinite amount of ionic plasma as a function of your ability to draw it off. What to do with it afterwards is anyone's imagination, but do not underestimate the potential of electrostatic machines. It is possible to draw so much that it destroys the very metals of the machine that collects it.
ok so,.. about a day and a half into owning a fully functional "ion generator", I noticed certain phases the machine would enter into...
most impressing was the phase in which load current from the driving battery dropped, while RPM increased with the operating disk.
this seems to occur at specific capacitance values (Voss-type machine).
an extensive effort on my part was made to influence this phase to occur.
after removing as much friction as possible, balancing the inductors (trimming down to equal size, etc)
and tweaking the capacitors to a more favorable state for this phase to occur.
what I have concluded is,. (I hope I don't sound silly in my old age, as I have adamantly argued the opposite side of this discussion in the past)
Testatika DOES in fact drive itself....
not through the logical approach of looping some power back into the motor...
but through the attraction of positive and negative charges, and neutralizing them at a point in which the momentum of the disk carries it along.
this crude drawing is my attempt to compare a purely magnetic system, to that of an electrostatic machine.
I feel this may help some of you understand how this plastic disk with metal pieces glued to it, can actually perpetuate....
I feel it is important to note at this point in my research (as many of you old timers may already know)
The ML-converter is NOT based on a Whimshurst Machine.
Whimshurst machines are designed to operate at a slow and constant RPM, relying on the surface area and charge density to create a potential.
Testatika is based on a Pidgeon Machine (which I have personally very little info on).
What I have found that closest matches the descriptions made by Mr. Pidgeon
Is the Voss Machine (otherwise known as a Toepler/Holtz machine).
In Both the Voss and Pidgeon machine, the ability to accumulate charge is a factor of the rpm of the disk.
the faster it spins, the more charge can be attained.
This is a functionally important difference. (that and the fact that only 1 disk need to spin, reducing friction by 300%)
At this point in my research, I have not yet attained "unity", much less 'overunity'
but what I can say, is there seems to be a force, irrespective of load, that aides in rotation of the disk.
this distinctively decreases the load current through the motor,
and the effect is directly related to capacitance (and charged value/charge rate thereof)
with my particular machine parameters, this effect is most prominent with a specific range of capacitor values and RPM.
My build design is made from scraps and most of the work was done with hand tools and hand-held power tools.
This is said to emphasize the fact that my machine is asymmetrical, and most likely not the most efficient design possible.
I have done what I can within my budget to increase efficiency of the machine, reduce friction, etc.
The power output appears to be a factor ONLY of the charge density of the plates, and the RPM,
NOT a factor of the load current through the driving motor.
I cannot correlate any relationship between load, spark gap, inductance, or capacitance back to the current through the drive motor in a negative manner. All attempts to do so have resulted in increases in efficiency via capacitance and charge density of the plates.
lowering friction of the collectors and the rotating disk itself resulted in a further separation of input and output energies.
in all cases, the negative function resulted in a lowering of the RPM, and NOT in an increase in input current.
the motor seems to draw x amount of current per mass of the disk, + some frictional factors.
the electrostatic field only affects the motor in a positive manner (lowering current per increased RPM)
Relocating the Neutralizing Bar DOES affects input current!!! as per my inartistic representation above, placement of the neutral bar too far away from the edge of the inducing plate (inward or outward) creates drag on the motor.
with the neutral bar in the correct position, and the proper capacitance/charge rate of capacitors, I think this type of machine might be capable of perpetuating not only the spinning disk, but the charge separation process itself.
[edit: When the machine enters into what I will now call the "self-operating" phase, a particular sound is heard and all of the capacitors in the system simultaneously increase in charge (audible and physically experienced), this is accompanied by an increase in RPM and a decrease in load current through the drive motor. Note - my machine has NOT "self-operated", but has experienced partial "self operation". What I am curious about is, how much the motor itself may be inhibiting "self-operation"?..... ]
and,.. to those of you who may not know me, yes I did do my homework.
"self-operation" phase occurs when capacitance and charged value / charge rate are within a certain range.
with the capacitors disconnected, there is no "self-operation" phase, and input motor current remains normal.
with capacitors connected, and output disconnected, "self-operation" occurs until a maximum charged value, then decreases back to normal operation.
With a spark gap (specific type of fast discharge load), "self-operation" phase is related to specific frequency ranges.
I do not own an oscilloscope much less one that can handle several hundred kilovolts, so I have no idea what these frequencies actually are.
What I can tell you, is that frequency varies with spark gap distance, and in this manner is adjustable.
within a range, the machine is more likely to enter into "self operation" phase.
there are more than one ranges, and (although some of you may know what I would say to that) it is purely speculation that these ranges could be
octaves (or multiples) of one another.(??)
Impedance of the gap seems not to affect input current, but only the frequency factor itself.
Different mediums were tested from air, to conductive ionized gasses and jellies.
fluid tests are not yet concluded.
Hi sm0ky2,
Just would like you to know I'm very interested in what your're presently testing and grateful you are sharing your finding.
Just last week I had a thought that if these devices are correctly built they may perpetuate themselves. So I'm stunned to see you're coming to the same conclusion with your actual physical tests.
I'm looking forward to join in when I have a little time.
Kind regards
Luc
I had the most rediculous idea
While re-watching one of Lidmotors videos
of an electrostatic motor design.
Basically the inverse of an ion generator
So I thought of an electrostatic qumogen
Of course it can't work right?
We'll find out soon enough
I realized the 'neutral' bar is only necessary for the bi-directional induction machines
Machines that use a stationary inductor do not require this piece
The neutral bar was grandfathered in from machines of the time
Remove that and remove friction
I'm adding a video to my YouTube channel
Showing the "Voss style" machine with no neutral bar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ir9RIsXzmzY
Quote from: sm0ky2 on January 07, 2017, 10:38:11 PM
I'm adding a video to my YouTube channel
Showing the "Voss style" machine with no neutral bar
Dear sm0ky2.
Please provide a link to the video on your YouTube channel.
In the light of Smudge's recent papers both here and OUR I'm interested in pursuing this line of research.
Kind regards, Graham.
Sure
https://m.youtube.com/user/Sm0ky2 (https://m.youtube.com/user/Sm0ky2)
I connected the drive motor to a 5v power pack inverter
1.2A (max) with a variable resistor for speed control.
That way I'm not burning out batteries doing tests and machine upgrades
Still looking for a schematic of a true Pidgeon
But from what I understand of it, it's just a really sealed
version of the machine I have built. So that's my current focus
upgrading the isolation of the charges to reduce leakage.
What I have found is there is a balance between capacitance
And load impedance.
Which can cause the electrostatic machines to operate in
One of two manners
1) is the more commonly known: spark, wait for charge build up, spark wait,spark
2) is a more direct draw of pulse-current, or machine variant frequency
Of sparks that rely more on the RPM for freq. than gap distance.
This second manner of operation is of interest because the
machine's internal capacitance is driving the pulse.
In some cases, the external capacitors or Leyden jars
can be entirely removed from the circuit.
The difference is substantial, in the first case the machine behaves like
the standard electrostatic configuration. Brilliant, loud pops and sparks.
With indeterminable pauses between the next spark.
In the second case the machine resembles more the sparks from a
flyback transformer.
I believe the changeover point between the 2nd mode to the 1st
To occur when the external capacitance exceeds the machines internal
capacitance and the impedance is too great. Lower the impedance and
the machine transitions back into the 2nd mode of operation.
Quote from: Grumage on January 12, 2017, 07:05:10 AM
Dear sm0ky2.
Please provide a link to the video on your YouTube channel.
In the light of Smudge's recent papers both here and OUR I'm interested in pursuing this line of research.
Kind regards, Graham.
In reference to that quote I learned exactly why the neutral bar exists in
The Voss design. While the machine functions perfectly fine without it,
The neutral bar actually reduces a lot of charge loss to the inductors.
The oppositely charged plates, if not neutralized, cancel out a portion of
the charge held by the inductor plates. In short, neutral bar increases output.
Many thanks. :)
I'm adding a new video showing how an increase in capacitance
Can switch the machine between the two modes of operation.
Give it a few minutes and it should be on the channel
Hi smOky2
I was reading through this old thread tonight and wondered if you had any conclusion about this device or is it still being worked on. Also if anyone has any new news on the Methernitha community and their device ? Have they let out any info or are they still tight lipped about it.
Quote from: overcurrent on February 01, 2020, 01:21:08 AM
Hi smOky2
I was reading through this old thread tonight and wondered if you had any conclusion about this device or is it still being worked on. Also if anyone has any new news on the Methernitha community and their device ? Have they let out any info or are they still tight lipped about it.
Paul Baumann, the founder of the Methernitha community, died in 2011.
The community still exists, but it seems nobody from outside has seen the machine in the last 30 years.
I think Stefan would visit from time to time [much more recent than that ?
Thanks for the info. The Methernitha community must have a very devoted membership, I thought after all this time there would have been a disgruntled follower that left and would have let out some info but evidently not.
They are still connected to the power grid. So they don't even use the machines for themselves. Either this has been a hoax for the whole time, or if it works they really have doubts about using it because of possible negative effects for the environment, as one of the members said in some old video from the 80s which can be seen on youtube. This was allegedly also the reason why they didn't open-source it.