Overunity.com Archives

This is the Bob Boyce TPU thread.

1.  Core -  T650-52

Micrometals, Inc. Home Office

http://www.micrometals.com/contactus_index.html

Address:  5615 E. La Palma Avenue
Anaheim, CA 92807 USA

Phone:
714-970-9400
Toll Free in US:
1-800-356-5977
Fax:
1-714-970-0400
E-Mail:
sales@micrometals.com

2.  Bee's Wax
Toilet bowl wax seal from your local building supply store

3.  Bias Winding
This winding is 48 turns of 20 guage magnet wire on this particular core.

4.  Winding tape
Can be obtained from suppliers that carry electric motor and transformer rewind supplies.
Surplus source for electrical winding tape:

http://www.surplussales.com/RF/RFTeflon-Mylar.html

The yellow, non-stretchy, thin stuff is polyester (Mylar is a brand name - of 3M - I think) - look for the yellow roll on the page.  These prices are a little cheaper than standard pricing.

5.  Woven fiberglass sleeving
Skycraft Parts & Surplus  (See #6 for contact information.)

6.  Secondary winding
a.  16ga solid copper, silver coated wire.  Somewhere around 90' or so. 131 turns seems to fit well. A bit more turns if no longitudinals are wound underneath. 

Skycraft Parts & Surplus
Business Hours (E.S.T.)
Mon-Fri: 8:30 - 6:00 p.m.
Saturday: 8:30 - 5:00 p.m.
Sunday: Closed

Skycraft Parts & Surplus
2245 West Fairbanks Ave.
Winter Park, FL 32789

Tel. (407) 628-5634
Fax (407) 647-4831

b.  Home Depot for some 0.080" weedwacker line. This was cut into 133 little pieces 1.5" long each.

c.  Vitamin C powder bottle

7.  Secondary Winding Tool
I had to make up a small spool that could pass through the toroid hole. This was made from a 3 1/2" long piece of 1" electrical PVC tubing solvent welded to a couple of 2 3/4" diameter discs. These were cut from 1/4" PVC sheet. I turned these on the lathe so they would fit over the ends of the tubing.

8.  Primaries (3 or 6.  Recommend 6 primary windings)
20ga solid copper, silver coated wire

Same source as #6 above


Hex Controller
(Future Information)

All future updates will be able to be downloaded from this post:

Please download the newest Bob Boyce Working Toroidal Power Unit > V.1.5.PDF
located at the bottom of the page!

Thank youÃ,  Stefan and Bruce -Ã,   now it will be eseryer to keep updating on progress.Ã,  toroids are ordered and still searching for silver wire and getting all parts for PCB board. in Bobs form i have the PMW#3 and he mentioned something about specific parts that fit the board is that still a go?Ã,  I know this is a new PCB board but does the parts issue still apply, Mike    PS -to all put a short cut on your desk top to this thread and go strait to the thread :)

Excelent -- a private space :)

I have a core now but am about to run out of time untill September. I will be availble on-line but because of business travel I wont be able to experiment.

I do hope to get a few hours this weekend to do some basic experiments on longitudinal wave transmission -- I have a stack of long solenoid coils (for various tesla coils) laying around that I want to do some tests with. As it's a capacitivley coupled advanced wave we want I have some ideas I want to test for more efficent drives... I'l post some photos whatever happens.

cheers

Mark.

@Bob  Boyce

What are the three states of dominant energy?

@Bob

You mentioned that you were running an electric golf cart of one of your toroids. Can you give us any more details on that, like how far you could drive before the energy surges happened and stopped you? I am just trying to 'gauge' how much energy we can be realistically expecting from our builds here...

If you don't want to answer this question it is ok. About how many watts of power do you anticipate these toroids will be able to continuously output once we finally have our systems stable? , which might be easier said than done...

ANY OU at all is incredible and will change all of our worlds here, but I was just curious anyway.

Hello All,

Glad to know we all have a nice, private thread to post the good stuff on. Bob, I definitely look forward to working with you here.

@ Everyone ,

I have some new information from my research and recent experiments to share with you that will shed LOTS of light on why the out of phase signals and harmonics do what they do. I love how Bob has been giving up all the details of how to build this thing but I've also been on a quest of understanding to know and understand the details and mechanics of the core 'mechanism' that makes this thing tick. I am preparing a long post with an article to use as reference and I will start a separate thread called (phase relationships and harmonics) for further discussion on the topic. I'm compiling a lot of info so I may or not finish it tonight but I think you all will like this :).

God Bless,
Jason O

Quote from: Jdo300 on July 27, 2007, 12:27:43 AM
I have some new information from my research and recent experiments to share with you that will shed LOTS of light on why the out of phase signals and harmonics do what they do. I love how Bob has been giving up all the details of how to build this thing but I've also been on a quest of understanding to know and understand the details and mechanics of the core 'mechanism' that makes this thing tick. I am preparing a long post with an article to use as reference and I will start a separate thread called (phase relationships and harmonics) for further discussion on the topic. I'm compiling a lot of info so I may or not finish it tonight but I think you all will like this :).

God Bless,
Jason O

I for one will be awaiting your writeup.

Thanks Jason, sounds awesome.

@All,
The embarrasment makes me try harder.  I look like a real Nimrod on the WinARM thread I started.  http://en.mikrocontroller.net/  Summary there of ARM7024 and ARM2048. 

Is sweeping F3/F2 really needed, because BBtpu is magnetical adjustable diameter it seems, starting out at 5" with no DC Bias.   If I am off base, stop me.  How are you guys achieving your phase adjusts with uCntrlr's?

Humble

HEY!  I meant all besides BB and the Dr.  I heard the orders loud and clear.  Bruce indicated he really really wanted us to learn uCntrls.  I do not expect anyone's code.  I am checking uCntrl choices you have all made and if they fit new 10nS pulse-width and delta .00001 accuracy (increment/freq out). 
Humble

@ward

There is no ideal, of the shelf,  controller out there for what we want.

* DDS:  great frequency and accuracy. No pulse width control. SYnchronization of multiple chips tricky.

* uControllers: slow but some have 3 phase PWM output... but no fine phase control. ARM 7074 is one of the fastest dedicated devices with 3 phase PWM. As you have foune this device is good for 300Hz - 250Khz or so with diminishing accuracy at higher frequencies.

* uControllers with multiple timers and single phase PWM are fine for lower frequencies <30KHz but have very poor capability/accuracy at high frequencies. ATMega128 is best choice of these with 6 PWM outputs.


** 4 channel DDS + variable width monostables would be best. AD9959 is a quad DDS. It is also capable of rapid frequency changes so you can also test driving with spread frequency ranges -- this is mainly for the third and highest harmonic -- rather than tuning just 'off resonance' we can test driving with a spread frequency centered on the resonance frequency.

I would also like to have the output stage opto isolated on separate boards -- better for saftey and make sit easier to make a range of output boards to test: postive pulse, negative pulse, valve etc. i just posted my wish list for a controller board here http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2831.21.html

cheers

Mark.

@Dr.,  Thanks.   I'll focus on alternatives ways now. - Humble

Quote from: Grumpy on July 26, 2007, 11:18:16 PM
@Bob  Boyce

What are the three states of dominant energy?

Polar
Parapolar
Diapolar

Bob

Hi all

Sorry I haven't posted earlier. A storm blasted through and took out the phone lines again. One of the drawbacks of rural living, this area loses power and phone lines every time a thunderstorm rolls through. I'm the only one around here that still has power during power grid outages, but I can't do anything about phone lines ;-)

I just wanted to touch base and let you all know I have been pretty busy, but hope to spend time out in the shop today. Before I wind my secondary on this core, I am going to go ahead and add some more longitudinal windings. This way they will already be there in case I want to do some testing with them later.

No problem on the proprietary controller... I will be releasing a basic version of my HexController, which is based on the Atmel AT-Mega48 microcontroller running with an external 20 Mhz clock for stability. I have it in alpha test with a replicator in Florida, wanted to make sure there were no trace errors prior to release. I had stopped working on it mid-design, so had to complete it on my own time. That basic version was designed prior to my being contracted to design a deluxe version, so it is not bound by the agreement. I will be more than happy to share it with the group for testing.

Bob

Quote from: Bob Boyce on July 27, 2007, 11:14:22 AM
Hi all

Sorry I haven't posted earlier. A storm blasted through and took out the phone lines again. One of the drawbacks of rural living, this area loses power and phone lines every time a thunderstorm rolls through. I'm the only one around here that still has power during power grid outages, but I can't do anything about phone lines ;-)

I just wanted to touch base and let you all know I have been pretty busy, but hope to spend time out in the shop today. Before I wind my secondary on this core, I am going to go ahead and add some more longitudinal windings. This way they will already be there in case I want to do some testing with them later.

No problem on the proprietary controller... I will be releasing a basic version of my HexController, which is based on the Atmel AT-Mega48 microcontroller running with an external 20 Mhz clock for stability. I have it in alpha test with a replicator in Florida, wanted to make sure there were no trace errors prior to release. I had stopped working on it mid-design, so had to complete it on my own time. That basic version was designed prior to my being contracted to design a deluxe version, so it is not bound by the agreement. I will be more than happy to share it with the group for testing.

Bob

Hi there Bob!

Great to have you here with us!  I look forward to release of your basic HexController.  It should help everyone in their design work.

I for one am curious of the "second layer" of windings you are putting over your longitudal (solenoid) windings.  This would have to be aimed at increasing the overall "magnetic bias" or field strength of this solenoid winding, to see if that affects overall performance or power.  Would that be an accurate guess?  And are you thinking of adding more than one layer extra of windings?

Happy days,  :)
Bruce

Quote from: tao on July 26, 2007, 11:55:21 PM@Bob

You mentioned that you were running an electric golf cart of one of your toroids. Can you give us any more details on that, like how far you could drive before the energy surges happened and stopped you? I am just trying to 'gauge' how much energy we can be realistically expecting from our builds here...

If you don't want to answer this question it is ok. About how many watts of power do you anticipate these toroids will be able to continuously output once we finally have our systems stable? , which might be easier said than done...

ANY OU at all is incredible and will change all of our worlds here, but I was just curious anyway.

I was not able to run the golf cart with that early 3 phase experiment. Every time I would disconnect the battery it would avalanche, destroying the controller,  speed control, and melting the wiring. Everything I had been told by others was telling me that in order to prove the design I had to disconnect the battery. Since I could not do this without damage, I gave up and went back to the low powered single phase design for simple battery charging. It did not avalanche.

The power output can be anywhere from a few hundred watts to a couple of kilowatts on the safer side. More can be had at greater risk of losing control. Bias potential and magnetic bias play a large role in how much output can be obtained for a given amount of drive energy.

Bob

Quote from: Bob Boyce on July 27, 2007, 10:57:58 AM

Quote from: Grumpy on July 26, 2007, 11:18:16 PM
@Bob  Boyce

What are the three states of dominant energy?

Polar
Parapolar
Diapolar

Bob

One can easily corellate these to magnetism:

Polar - ferromagnetic - self sustaining
parapolar - paramagnetic - aligns with ferromagnetic
diapolar - diamagnetic - aligns opposite ferromagnetic

I do not think that these actually corellate like this, but the arrangement is the same - para is same and dia is opposite.

What is the physical significance of the three states?  Can you elaborate on how the achieve these states?

Thanks Much

Quote from: Grumpy on July 27, 2007, 11:43:28 AM

Quote from: Bob Boyce on July 27, 2007, 10:57:58 AM

Quote from: Grumpy on July 26, 2007, 11:18:16 PM
@Bob  Boyce

What are the three states of dominant energy?

Polar
Parapolar
Diapolar

Bob

One can easily corellate these to magnetism:

Polar - ferromagnetic - self sustaining
parapolar - paramagnetic - aligns with ferromagnetic
diapolar - diamagnetic - aligns opposite ferromagnetic

I do not think that these actually corellate like this, but the arrangement is the same - para is same and dia is opposite.

What is the physical significance of the three states?  Can you elaborate on how the achieve these states?

Thanks Much

Sorry, thought about that after I had posted. I should have offered the following;

Polar = anomolous electrical / magnetic effects
Parapolar = anomolous heating / cooling effects
Diapolar = anomolous gravitational effects

3 variations of a common thread. Many anomolies observed are results of unbalanced mixes of 2 or more of these. It's just a theory and I really don't care about theory as much as actual hands-on research and experimentation.

Bob

Thinking about phase...

Quote from: MarkSnoswell on July 27, 2007, 02:30:36 AM
There is no ideal, of the shelf,  controller out there for what we want.

I would beg to differ! ;)  Look into Xilinx's FPGAs here: http://www.digilentinc.com
These things are basically high-speed reconfigurable logic.

Specifically, there is a small Spartan 3 board for $99 that should do everything we need it to do--I have been using this board for the past year and have been very happy with it.  As I posted on my thread, I can release the source for a basic three-phase 100KHz+ pulse generator, with full computer control of all parameters.

Eldarion

hellooooo! all

good to be here  and BIG thanks for setting up this forum ;D

looking forward  to getting  some good info :D

has any one found a source  for 16ga solid silver coated wire yet? :)


wer

Quote from: wcernuska on July 27, 2007, 12:53:33 PM
@Bob,   What minimum PWM time increment do you achieve, while I am still considering 200MHz and down adjustable GAL clock logic design, where target DDS frequency dictates actual minimum PWM time increment?  Thanks.  Just in case my idea has some merit.  Nodern PLD's run much faster, but they are not familiar to me yet. 

Ward  I hope I have not posted twice... dohhhh!

I really don't care as much for PWMs as I do just using those ports as straight logic level outputs. This way I can set my pulse width referenced to time rather than a percentage of the cycle time (frequency). What you will need for pulse on time will directly depend on how much latency is in your output processing, drivers, and switching devices.

Just about any microprocessor/microcontroller device can be adapted for use, if the clock speed is fast enough. For basic power system functionality, it doesn't require a huge amount of processing time. If you wish to get into the more wild aspects, then processing speed will become very important.

Bob

Quote from: weri812 on July 27, 2007, 02:22:12 PM
hellooooo! all

good to be here  and BIG thanks for setting up this forum ;D

looking forward  to getting  some good info :D

has any one found a source  for 16ga solid silver coated wire yet? :)


wer

I sourced most of my 16 guage, 20 guage, and 22 guage, from a surplus outlet in Florida by the name of SkyCraft Surplus. They had many types and sizes of mil-spec wire in stock when I last checked. You might have to call and ask them what they have in partial spools, as they usually only list full spools on their web site. If I remember right, they were about 10% to 20% the price per foot of buying new wire. I use 20 guage magnet wire on the longitudinal winding(s).

Bob

Edit: Here is a picture of the first longitudinal winding, since I removed this picture from the other thread.

@Bob,
Good job we have you on our team. Look forward to seeing your circuit and coil setup.

@Wer,
PTFE coated silver plated copper wires are available here:
http://www.wires.co.uk/acatalog/cu_sp_ptfe.html
0.25mm, 0.4mm, 0.6mm and 0.9mm - expensive, around 21GBP for 100m of 0.6mm

I have ordered all of my wire to date from this company, and they are very good.

@Mark,
AD9959, 4 channel DDS, looks ideal although it is very expensive, around 49 GBP in the UK.
Saying that, the option to request 2 samples is available.
I requested 2 samples of a less expensive DDS chip a while ago and they turned up about 5 days later - brilliant!

As I understand it, you should be able to link many (less expensive) DDS chips to the same oscillator and use the reset to sync them.

@Eldarion,
I remember you from the EnergyMover on google - MEG project.
Can you get fine frequency increments using your  spartan 3 board, say 0.1Hz?

@All,
I have the cases for my DDS 20 boards and I plan to drill holes/cutouts to mount the boards into the ali cases.
I want to test sine wave to duty cycle idea first using a high speed comparator.
With luck I can get down to less than 1% duty.
May need to look at some other ideas to get a fixed narrow pulse in the 10ns range.

After watching the video about:
Tesla transverse and longitudinal electric waves
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-721789270445596549&total=32&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
I was thinking, where did the three control coils idea come from and the three layers of coils?
When SM cut the core open the cross section was all foam, I think, I could be mistaken.
So that means all the coils were in the thin outer layers.
If we can get the compass needle to spin, using just two frequencies, we must be on the right track.

Regards
Rob

I have another longitudinal winding completed, on the top face of the toroid core. My fingers are not as nimble as they used to be. It takes me a long time to do so very little winding by hand. Beeswax is our friend, as it allows windings to adhere to the core as they are wound.

Bob

@ Bob:
   Do you feel it to our advantage to add these for better control of the bias field?

@ Bruce:
   Found my parts in Portland ME!  On the way now, I hope. Should have the controller done before the torrid gets here.

thaelin

Quote from: Thaelin on July 27, 2007, 07:48:29 PM
@ Bob:
   Do you feel it to our advantage to add these for better control of the bias field?

@ Bruce:
   Found my parts in Portland ME!  On the way now, I hope. Should have the controller done before the torrid gets here.

thaelin

Hi Thaelin,

That is a good question for Bob, and my question also.   ???

@ Bob
Hmmm... That last winding was not placed where I was picturing.   :o

So much for my solenoid analogy with that winding.  LOL

Bruce

Quote from: Thaelin on July 27, 2007, 07:48:29 PM
@ Bob:
   Do you feel it to our advantage to add these for better control of the bias field?

thaelin

The intent of face windings is not related to potential or magnetic bias, it is for some experiments I wish to run once I have this unit connected and operating. Note the orientation and direction of this winding in relation to my location. Northern hemisphere, CCW rotation.

Bob

Quote from: btentzer on July 27, 2007, 07:54:31 PM
Hi Thaelin,

That is a good question for Bob, and my question also.   ???

@ Bob
Hmmm... That last winding was not placed where I was picturing.   :o

So much for my solenoid analogy with that winding.  LOL

Bruce

Yea the next one, on the core bottom face, will be harder for me due to the reverse winding direction. I'm so used to winding CCW ;-)

In the past, the flat pancake coils I have wound were typically bifilar and wound in a coil form the width of the wire. This winding on the face of a toroid took more time.

Bob

@ Bob

Thank you for the explanation.  We will wind with just the magnetic bias longitudil winding and not the top and bottom winding.  I look forward to hearing how your future experiments go with the top and bottom windings.

I am very curious, of your TPU history.  What in the world gave you that first idea?  All of us had S.M. Videos and pages of clues (though we were clueless! LOL)  What gave you the "spark" of insight to first develop this and to push for OU.  Your answer will make for a good addition to the introduction part of the .PDF

Bruce

@ All

Skycraft Parts & Surplus
Business Hours (E.S.T.)
Mon-Fri: 8:30 - 6:00 p.m.
Saturday: 8:30 - 5:00 p.m.
Sunday: Closed

Skycraft Parts & Surplus
2245 West Fairbanks Ave.
Winter Park, FL 32789

Tel. (407) 628-5634
Fax (407) 647-4831

Where  in the hell did the 10ns requirement come from?

Bob's freq's are in the low khz range - far above 10ns.

TEsla worked from ns to millseconds with his RE devices.

In short, try everything.

Quote from: MeggerMan on July 27, 2007, 07:39:52 PM
@Eldarion,
I remember you from the EnergyMover on google - MEG project.
Can you get fine frequency increments using your  spartan 3 board, say 0.1Hz?

Rob,

Good to see you here!  I remember many nights trying to get that MEG working, to no avail...hopefully this will work out better! :)

Yes, I can get fine frequency increments with the Spartan--very fine, down to about 10ns of precision, in fact.

Eldarion

Quote from: Grumpy on July 27, 2007, 11:29:33 PM
Where  in the hell did the 10ns requirement come from?

Bob's freq's are in the low khz range - far above 10ns.

TEsla worked from ns to millseconds with his RE devices.

In short, try everything.

Well call me wrong on this one, if possible.
If one looks at the LMD we see stages, phases and 1 oscillator. Now wrap that in a circle.
In the beginning I stated smack it fast and get out of the way fast. Thats all. The output far exceeds the technology. Technology that Tesla did not have.
I proved secondarily from Otto's design that phase cancellation did the high speed job. Oh well. My testing proved that the coil can do all the work dynamically. The LMD and the stun gun stages all build up potential to the final output.
Could things have gotten that far off the beam? Tangentential metatronics.

So my wrap up is to connect it with diodes across caps to spark gaps, neon bulbs, or neon starters and be done. I will state this again for historical purposes. We are going to end up with stungun circuits reconfigured. Remember SM shorting the leads of the SM15/17? Clock it anyway you want. It is still a stun gun turned back on itself. What is the oscillator speed of a stun gun? 6khz. Close to SMs 5k. And my most famous quote? 'It's sloppy'. But now I am humbled because Dollard stated this in 1988. They didn't even try to tune it.

--giantkiller. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6461713170757457294

Quote from: btentzer on July 27, 2007, 09:20:50 PM
I am very curious, of your TPU history.  What in the world gave you that first idea?  All of us had S.M. Videos and pages of clues (though we were clueless! LOL)  What gave you the "spark" of insight to first develop this and to push for OU.  Your answer will make for a good addition to the introduction part of the .PDF

Bruce

While working as an engineer for a govt. subcontractor, I became aware of a problem with a switcher power supply, that under certain temperature and load conditions would go into overunity operation. Sometimes these would fail in a big way and totally destroy the load. Way more damage than the power source to the power supply was capable of delivering. The power supply board used an onboard toroidal inductor, wound with teflon insulated silver plated solid copper wire on Honeywell powdered iron cores. I guess this is what started my interest in this. When I went into business for myself, I had the time to devote to research and experimentation.

My early radiant energy research and experimentation were with attempting replications of Tesla and Moray devices, as well as many others. I found a copy of Dr. Hans A. Niepers's Revolution book, ISBN 3-925188-07-X. In that book there is information about many devices related to the conversion of gravity field energy.

My first foray into a 3 phase device was during experimentation with a g-strain energy absorber as theorized by professor Shinichi Seike. Needless to say, the results were not what I expected when I connected a 3 phase air core toroid to the 3 phase outputs of the g-strain energy absorber board.

I had been doing these experiments at home, and that was where my lightning strike injury occured in 1995. That put an end to my 3 phase research for a number of years. When I did start back into it, I soon tired of the expense of burned out electronics and loads. I went back to the lower powered single phase transformers and stuck with that until I worked out some of the control issues that would to allow me to get back into the 3 phase design in a more controlled manner. I wish I had heard of Steven Mark sooner, would probably have saved me some time ;-)

Like Steven, I learned to have a very healthy respect for this stuff.

Bob

Edit: typo fix

Hi all,  I have just done an experiment that demonstrates the presence and ease with which longitudinal waves can be efficently driven. I have started a new thread in this private area for experiments on Longitudinal waves -- http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2877.new.html#new

cheers

mark.

PS. I'll be offline for a day helping our school team out at the 2n'd round of the HPV super sereis www.pedalprix.com.au

Quote from: Bob Boyce on July 27, 2007, 11:46:18 PM
My first foray into a 3 phase device was during experimentation with a g-strain energy absorber as theorized by professor Shinichi Seike. Needless to say, the results were not what I expected when I connected a 3 phase air core toroid to the 3 phase outputs of the g-strain energy absorber board.

I had been doing these experiments at home, and that was where my lightning strike injury occured in 1995. That put an end to my 3 phase research for a number of years. When I did start back into it, I soon tired of the expense of burned out electronics and loads. I went back to the lower powered single phase transformers and stuck with that until I worked out some of the control issues that would to allow me to get back into the 3 phase design in a more controlled manner.

Hi Bob,

Thank you very much for your history of the initial spark into your TPU research.  I have often wondered if your research was the cause of your lightning strike.  Florida, being the lightning capital of the country, combined with high energy research, I see now, was the cause.  If I understood correctly, this occured during experimentation with a g-strain energy absorber and your air core TPU, or at a later date?

And is that why you have gone to the iron powder core, from the air core, because it affords you greater stability and control, which outweighs the expense and weight issues?

Bruce

@bruce

The interesting part was the experiment was not running at the time of the strike. But the strike did enter the room where I had been running an earlier experiment with the 3 phase toroid driven by the g-strain energy absorber board. I am under the impression that the running of the experiment had somehow imprinted an energy pattern upon me that may have attracted that lightning to me. The lightning entered the room, entered my right hand, exited my right ankle, and left the room via the telephone line. I was quite understandably shaken up, but I was able to drive myself to St. Marys Hospital (in West Palm Beach FL) emergency room where I was treated and released. The pain in my chest afterwards was something I would not wish upon anyone! All I could really do was take pain pills until the pain subsided. Considering that I had a well grounded (three 20' long 1/2" dia copper pipes, one connected to each leg of the tower at the base, and a 20' long 1/2" dia copper pipe at each guy wire point) 160 foot radio tower only 20 feet away from that room, that entire house should have been well protected under the "cone of protection" provided by that tower. That particular lightning strike defied all common sense of good lightning protection. It was as if it targetted me directly, despite the well protected location. I have had avalanches occur since then, but I make darned sure that I am very well protected against lightning before running any of these experiments now. I have had the metal building struck but it has not penetrated inside. There are 8' long 5/8" dia copper clad steel ground rods at each corner of the metal building. I have an 8' X 10' PVC utility building that I can remotely run the experiment in while I watch from the safety of my metal building on a closed circuit TV monitor.

Yes, the core provides stability. I do use a low permeability core to avoid saturation from the bias. The lower you go in frequency, the fewer impulses (kicks) you get per second. This results in less power density, but also lowers the relativistic effects in the core. So sure, it is a trade-off of control vs power. If the controller were to be fitted totally within the "eye of the storm" ie center of the toroid space, power density could be greatly increased. My main concern would be losing control in a runaway situation and the controller ignoring command signals from outside due to these relativistic timing changes. Energy induced in even DC control wiring can override those control signals. You would not want to be anywhere near that if it happened.

I do not like to use ferrite or laminated iron cores. With the high permeability, they can only be used at very very low frequencies and very lower power densities

One "trick" that can be used to improve power density a bit at lower frequencies is to go from 3 primaries to 6 primaries, ie 2 phased sets of 3 phase drive coils. I did not do this for the hydroxy gas related cores due to the pulsed mode of operation, but I did experiment with it in the RMF energy cores.

Bob

hello Bob

like the added coil to your tpu

i am going to make 2 of your tpu using your board  pwm3f-hp.
you said that  you are using 20ga instead of 16ga is this what you recamend
or is that what you are using for the  top and bottom  coil only.
and  we wind ccw on all coils in  usa?

thank you for helping
wer

 Bob thats intresting that you mentioned the lighting strike. We were doing transducer expieriments at Gruman in WP , to keep barnicacles from growing on the bottom of boat hulls and the more we tested the more strikes we were getting so the project was abandoned. I was following the Hydroxy over @ yahoo but my pouter got hit and wiped me out for a while and then I could not get my password to work and had contacted yahoo many times on it to only get BOT messages. Thanks again for helping us in this wondorus expieriment and please folks be safe !

@ All

I had written Eldarion about this and feel based on what Bob has just shared, that we do the following.  If anyone puts the controller into the eye of the storm, that a Manual Kill Switch be placed outside, for you to access as Steven Mark told us.  "Remember the Kill switch!"  Also, over voltage, and over heat sensors wired to kill the frequencies and power if tripped must be adhered to.  I would say not to even test any three phase system without this.

Quote from: Bob Boyce on July 28, 2007, 11:03:58 AM

One "trick" that can be used to improve power density a bit at lower frequencies is to go from 3 primaries to 6 primaries, ie 2 phased sets of 3 phase drive coils. I did not do this for the hydroxy gas related cores due to the pulsed mode of operation, but I did experiment with it in the RMF energy cores.

Bob

@ Bob
Would you suggest we start off now with the 3 primaries to learn on, and then the 6 primaries next?  Or should we start with the 6 primaries now.  (when our cores arrive.)

Bruce

Quote from: weri812 on July 28, 2007, 12:31:16 PM
hello Bob

like the added coil to your tpu

i am going to make 2 of your tpu using your board  pwm3f-hp.
you said that  you are using 20ga instead of 16ga is this what you recamend
or is that what you are using for the  top and bottom  coil only.
and  we wind ccw on all coils in  usa?

thank you for helping
wer

The PWM3F-HP is fine for running a hydroxy system, if that is the direction you are planning. The 20 guage longitudinal wound windings are not related to hydroxy system operation, so you will not need those for that purpose. The 16 guage secondary winding and the three primaries are all you will need for hydroxy use. You can add the longitudinal winding for future use if you intend to do research along those lines in the future.

Bob

Quote from: btentzer on July 28, 2007, 04:14:21 PM
@ Bob
Would you suggest we start off now with the 3 primaries to learn on, and then the 6 primaries next?  Or should we start with the 6 primaries now.  (when our cores arrive.)

Bruce

Since the primaries are on the outside, the additional primaries can be added later if you decide you want to go that route. One of the replicators has wound all 6 on both of his toroids, but he is only using the one set of 3 of them at this time.

Bob

Edited to add: I forgot to mention, the HexController was designed to drive all 6 coils individually if desired. This was what the Hex in the name referred to.

 Bob in the Tesla patents they talk about the AG material being as of equal weight on the secondaries and the primaries, Does this stay true to what we are doing on this coil.  Mike   

The toroid core bottom face longitudinal winding is done. It wasn't so bad winding it clockwise, just took a little getting used to at first ;-)

Bob

Quote from: Motorcoach1 on July 28, 2007, 10:13:09 PM
Bob in the Tesla patents they talk about the AG material being as of equal weight on the secondaries and the primaries, Does this stay true to what we are doing on this coil.  Mike

Not on this type of unit.

Bob

Hi Bob,

You sure do some nice winding!  I think that seeing with our eyes, the precision involved, will cause all of us to take our time and to do it correctly.  We need to source some Beeswax as well.  Do you know a supplier for the large block that you showed in your other picture?

Any guesses on what will happen when you fire up the top and bottom windings?  Will they be low voltage or high voltage static bias'?   Or will you try both?

@ All
Tomorrow, I will be starting a new thread that will be locked.  It is the Builders Update and will include each weeks progress update from each builder.  This will act as both a build diary, and resource if you need to know if someone is working on something that perhaps you either need help on, or can be of assistance.  At a later date it will turn into the builders experiments update thread.

Bruce

Quote from: btentzer on July 28, 2007, 10:48:20 PM
Hi Bob,

You sure do some nice winding!  I think that seeing with our eyes, the precision involved, will cause all of us to take our time and to do it correctly.  We need to source some Beeswax as well.  Do you know a supplier for the large block that you showed in your other picture?

Any guesses on what will happen when you fire up the top and bottom windings?  Will they be low voltage or high voltage static bias'?  Or will you try both?

Bruce

Thank you. I do try to make accurate windings, even when they are not so critical as in these longitudinals. The secondary and primaries are always a challenge for me, as I attemp to get a tight wind at the toroid center while keeping each turn spaced the same from one another around the periphery. The primaries are the most critical of course, as the accuracy there directly affects timing.

My beeswax was sourced from eBay. The not-so-local health food store only had tiny 1 ounce blocks for US $1 each, while a seller on eBay had 1 lb blocks for about US $10 each. I had stocked up so have plenty of it.

Those top and bottom windings were not planned for use as bias windings. I wanted to see if adding these would allow for additional output in homopolar fashion without affecting operation. This is why they are both wound CCW from inside to outside when looking down from above.

Bob

Bee's wax get this from Home Depot , go to pluming and get tolite bowl seal ring made from Bee's wax ! dada :)                                                                               I have a steel ring here so I'm going to practice winding this one. get my skill level in.  and dahh I forgot the tolite bowl ring when I  was at the store. :0

@ Mike

A bright idea.  Though it will read funny on the "build page" when I get it together.  One toilet bowl seal... ;D  I had no idea it was made of Bee's wax!

I have verified it is 100% bee's wax.  I won't ask how you knew that Mike!  LOL   ;D  So we now have a ready, cheap souce at our disposal (no pun intended! Ha!) from any local building supply.

Bruce

I'm glad to know that as well. Of course, they will probably try to outlaw beeswax when they find out it is being used for coil winding once again. Just like the Consumer Product Safety Commission has tried to eliminate non-blended sodium hydroxide drain cleaners from store shelves here in the US.

Well, the last longitudinal winding is finally finished. I turned a short piece of 3" ABS pipe down on my lathe and used that as a preform to make winding the inside hole a bit easier. I wrapped the 48 turns onto the preform, then smeared them with beeswax before transferring them over to the core one turn at a time.

Bob

Quote from: Bob Boyce on July 29, 2007, 05:48:05 PM
Well, the last longitudinal winding is finally finished. I turned a short piece of 3" ABS pipe down on my lathe and used that as a preform to make winding the inside hole a bit easier. I wrapped the 48 turns onto the preform, then smeared them with beeswax before transferring them over to the core one turn at a time.

Bob

Hi Bob,

It is easy to see that you have wound a few coils in your day!  I do have two questions.

With the first winding, for the magnetic bias, do you smear bee's wax first over the surface of the toroid, and then simply wind on top of that?

And what is the yellow paper like stuff you have waxed, glued on top of everything?  It does not look like electrical tape.  Would electrical tape work, or would you recommend this yellow stuff?

Bruce

Quote from: btentzer on July 29, 2007, 07:46:08 PM
Hi Bob,

It is easy to see that you have wound a few coils in your day!  I do have two questions.

With the first winding, for the magnetic bias, do you smear bee's wax first over the surface of the toroid, and then simply wind on top of that?

And what is the yellow paper like stuff you have waxed, glued on top of everything?  It does not look like electrical tape.  Would electrical tape work, or would you recommend this yellow stuff?

Bruce

I rub cold beeswax over the core surface first to make it just a bit tacky. Then as I wind, I rub wax into the windings by hand to secure those windings. I work this wax with my fingers to soften it as I wind. After I finish, I rub in a good dose of wax to seal the windings well. Beeswax makes an excellent inert potting to hold the windings in place until they can be securely wrapped with winding tape.

Which brings us to the winding tape. It is very strong and thin, and has almost no stretch to it. It is available in many colors and widths. Some has adhesive and some does not, I have both types. PVC electrical tape will work, but it stretches, especially when it warms up, so it provides very little in the way of support for the windings. Winding tape can be obtained from suppliers that carry electric motor and transformer rewind supplies.

In the late 70s I had the opportunity to train in electric motor/transformer rewind. I then worked in a motor/transformer rewind shop for a short time. This experience helped me greatly. Back then we used wax and waxed chord to tie windings up. We then heated and dipped them in varnish, while exposed to vacuum to draw out air and excess wax, then allowed atmospheric pressure to push the varnish in. Then we would bake the windings to set the varnish.

One thing I learned from that is to make darned sure that all underwinding leads are covered with good dielectric strength woven fiberglass sleeving. This can add a good 5KV or more of dielectric strength to the flying leads of magnet wire windings. I will be adding this to my longitudinal winding leads prior to winding my secondary.

Bob

Taped up and awaiting the woven fiberglass sleeving prior to winding the secondary.

Bob

Hi Bob,

Great information as always.  We look forward to seeing and learning more of the fiberglass sleeve.  This is indeed feeling like we are winding a generator.

If you test your new longitudal windings on top, bottom and inside core, and it indeed gives output, we will add these windings to ours as well and I will add those photo's to the page 2 photo journal

@ Everyone

Page 1 Build page is active.  Need sources for the winding tape and I will add it.  Please check it out.  Also Page 2 is a Photo Journal for easy viewing all in one place, when our cores arrive.

Bruce

Quote from: btentzer on July 29, 2007, 12:31:19 AM
@ Mike

A bright idea.  Though it will read funny on the "build page" when I get it together.  One toilet bowl seal... ;D  I had no idea it was made of Bee's wax!

I have verified it is 100% bee's wax.  I won't ask how you knew that Mike!  LOL   ;D  So we now have a ready, cheap souce at our disposal (no pun intended! Ha!) from any local building supply.

Bruce

I indeed found the wax at Home Depot today, guised as a toilet seal, lol.

May I suggest also though, lol, they have many forms of wax and like materials at Hobby Lobby stores around the US...

Ray Tomes

34560 - Universal Ratio

http://ray.tomes.biz/index.htm

-----------------------------

For those who insist that the Schumann Resonance can be harnessed:

http://www.mondovista.com/schuman.html

Quote from: Bob Boyce on July 27, 2007, 12:27:48 PM

Sorry, thought about that after I had posted. I should have offered the following;

Polar = anomolous electrical / magnetic effects
Parapolar = anomolous heating / cooling effects
Diapolar = anomolous gravitational effects

3 variations of a common thread. Many anomolies observed are results of unbalanced mixes of 2 or more of these. It's just a theory and I really don't care about theory as much as actual hands-on research and experimentation.

Bob

Hello Bob,

In the above orientations, or states, are you referring to the orientations of the fields in the ring?  Just wondering what would could be expected with phase coils with same poles turned inward or wrapped with current primary method but with poles opposing.

You mentioned that the lightening strike entered your hand - was this by chance the palm or some other portion?  I ask this specifically because the palm of the hand is thought to be sensitive to torsion fields.  The lingering field that you spoke of is consistent with many people's experiences with torsion fields.  Dave Lowrance has experimented with coil arrangements that create torsion fields without applied power and others that are very difficult to shut off once active.  Very strange stuff indead.

Do you have any ideas on why the rind does not function when flipped over or rotating CW?  This is obviously and indication of where the energy comes from - (as in - not from the ground beneath you) - but the source could be Earth or something outside it.  Aside from the gravitational field, the Earth has a torsion field as do many other celestial entities and they appear to effect each other. 

Have you ever placed two rings side-by-side when operating? 

Have you ever placed a ring inside another ring - perhaps with the inner ring rotating CW and the outer ring rotating CCW and collection in the middle between the two?

Sorry about all the questions - bored at work and can't work on the ring here.

Thanks Much,

Grumpy


EDIT:
surplus source for electrical winding tape:

http://www.surplussales.com/RF/RFTeflon-Mylar.html

The yellow, non-stretchy, thin stuff is polyester (Mylar is a brand name - of 3M - I think) - look for the yellow roll on the page.

These prices are a little cheaper than standard pricing.

Hey Y'all,

You all better read everything twice if you are like me.  Make time.

Humble

Quote from: Grumpy on July 30, 2007, 03:44:10 PM

Quote from: Bob Boyce on July 27, 2007, 12:27:48 PM

Sorry, thought about that after I had posted. I should have offered the following;

Polar = anomolous electrical / magnetic effects
Parapolar = anomolous heating / cooling effects
Diapolar = anomolous gravitational effects

3 variations of a common thread. Many anomolies observed are results of unbalanced mixes of 2 or more of these. It's just a theory and I really don't care about theory as much as actual hands-on research and experimentation.

Bob

Hello Bob,

In the above orientations, or states, are you referring to the orientations of the fields in the ring?  Just wondering what would could be expected with phase coils with same poles turned inward or wrapped with current primary method but with poles opposing.

You mentioned that the lightening strike entered your hand - was this by chance the palm or some other portion?  I ask this specifically because the palm of the hand is thought to be sensitive to torsion fields.  The lingering field that you spoke of is consistent with many people's experiences with torsion fields.  Dave Lowrance has experimented with coil arrangements that create torsion fields without applied power and others that are very difficult to shut off once active.  Very strange stuff indead.

Do you have any ideas on why the rind does not function when flipped over or rotating CW?  This is obviously and indication of where the energy comes from - (as in - not from the ground beneath you) - but the source could be Earth or something outside it.  Aside from the gravitational field, the Earth has a torsion field as do many other celestial entities and they appear to effect each other. 

Have you ever placed two rings side-by-side when operating? 

Have you ever placed a ring inside another ring - perhaps with the inner ring rotating CW and the outer ring rotating CCW and collection in the middle between the two?

Sorry about all the questions - bored at work and can't work on the ring here.

Thanks Much,

Grumpy

EDIT:
surplus source for electrical winding tape:

http://www.surplussales.com/RF/RFTeflon-Mylar.html

The yellow, non-stretchy, thin stuff is polyester (Mylar is a brand name - of 3M - I think) - look for the yellow roll on the page.

These prices are a little cheaper than standard pricing.

As far as I can tell, the states have nothing to do with the orientation of the windings. I do not have these other anomolous affects mapped out to a specific interference (standing wave) pattern. Some resonance points will give a different set of anomolies than others, and the frequencies at which these occur will vary based on the resonances of your particular core and windings.

The lightning entered the palm of my right hand with no entry wound. My right hand was resting on the shelf of a metal book rack that was next to the wall where the lightning entered the room. The exit wound was on the outside of my right ankle where it jumped from there to the telephone 3 feet away. I was laying in bed at the time.

I had not tried turning it on its side or upside down when it was running. I do not like going near strong EM fields for health reasons. There are some subtle measurement differences that can be observed when testing at low power when wound and driven in one direction vs the other. For example, when wound  and driven correctly, far field radiated EMF as read with an EMF meter seems to vanish when a load is connected.

I have not messed around with multiple rings. In all the testing I have done, closed rings of conductive material just seems to introduce eddy current losses and the resultant heat from those eddy current losses. I have always strived to obtain the best results I can with the least amount of power input.

Bob

The woven fiberglass sleeving was cut to size, installed on the longitudinal winding leads, and the core taped up a bit more with winding tape. I marked top and bottom for reference.

Bob

I had to make up a small spool that could pass through the toroid hole. This was made from a 3 1/2" long piece of 1" electrical PVC tubing solvent welded to a couple of 2 3/4" diameter discs. These were cut from 1/4" PVC sheet. I turned these on the lathe so they would fit over the ends of the tubing.

I began winding the secondary. This will take me a while to wind and space evenly considering I get tired easy ;-)

Bob

hi All

Got my fiberglass sleeve from  Skycraft Parts & Surplus ,
along with the wire i needed.

Now i wait.

wer

Quote from: Bob Boyce on August 03, 2007, 06:13:47 PM
I had to make up a small spool that could pass through the toroid hole. This was made from a 3 1/2" long piece of 1" electrical PVC tubing solvent welded to a couple of 2 3/4" diameter discs. These were cut from 1/4" PVC sheet. I turned these on the lathe so they would fit over the ends of the tubing.

I began winding the secondary. This will take me a while to wind and space evenly considering I get tired easy ;-)

Bob

Hi Bob,

Not a problem, we are a patient bunch.  (Most of the time... ;))  We are all waiting for our cores any way.  I for one would enjoy seeing a picture of your little winding spool that you made.  Also, do you already know how many feet of wire is required for the secondary winding?

Quote from: weri812 on August 03, 2007, 08:01:24 PM
hi All

Got my fiberglass sleeve from  Skycraft Parts & Surplus ,
along with the wire i needed.

Now i wait.

wer

Thank you Wer, and that is very good information as well.

Bruce

taking in the extra windings and tape 

useing 16ga tifflon coating  at 200 turns will be a little
over 117 ft

@ Everyone

The newest version of the .PDF is now available for download.  It is located on page one of this thread.  I have completely redone all of it, making it much, much easier to find information by subject.  It is missing the cover, until Dr. Mark returns from his vacation at the end of the month, but I have decided to release it now, for I think it will help everyone out as their build progress'.


@ Bob

Anything in the .PDF you wish to have changed in anyway, simply PM or email me the desired changes, and I will make it happen for the 1.5 future version.

Enjoy!

Bruce

@Bruce

I downloaded it, will review it later.

@all

I had a mild setback last night. I had to come into the house to use the restroom and get some water. While in the kitchen I heard a bang out in the shop. When I went out there, I found the toroid on the floor, the secondary winding cut from the impact with the concrete, and my winding spool with the rest of the secondary wire on the floor broken. I don't know how this happened since I had thought I had laid it flat. Upon examination, the secondary and longitudinal windings were damaged in several locations. I was so disappointed that I went to bed.

This morning, I disassembled the toroid and repaired the longitudinal windings. Thank goodness for the beeswax, the longitudinals had just pushed to the side and bunched up. They were not damaged too badly that they needed replacing. I was able to pull the few turns off, straighten, and re-apply. I just finished retaping the core with winding tape. I will not be able to re-use the secondary wire, as I only had half a roll (125') on that spool and that wire was cut too short by the fall. I do not like splices mid-winding, so I will have to get another 250' spool of 16 guage solid silver plated teflon wire. It'll probably be late next week for it to arrive. I sure don't want to have to unwind one of my hydroxy cores (no longitudinal winding) just for the secondary wire unless I have to ;-(

Bob

Bob,

While we wait for our cores to arrive (and you wait for your wire to come), would you mind sharing with us how you did the original unstable "golf cart" experiment?  I read somewhere that you took three separate toroidal transformers and hooked up the primaries in a wye, then conected them to some kind of three phase source.  Each toriod's output was then rectified and combined with the other rectified outputs which gave O/U?  I am not sure if I have all of this correct; is there anything missing or wrong?

I scavenged these three identical toroidal transformers from old computer power supplies and would like to put them to good use.  I would like to see if my FPGA-based controller might be able to stabilize the power output (don't worry, I'd always run it with at least a small battery in the loop somewhere in case the controls failed! ;) )

EDIT: As I have had more time to gain a better understanding of this technology, I guess my question should be: how did you manage to get the required interference patterns with three independent transformers? ???
EDIT2: I might have figured this out--I'll build and test it in the next couple of days and see if I'm right! :)  My description above is definitely incomplete!

Thank you,

Eldarion

:)

Quote from: btentzer on August 03, 2007, 08:34:50 PM
Hi Bob,
Not a problem, we are a patient bunch.  (Most of the time... ;))  We are all waiting for our cores any way.  I for one would enjoy seeing a picture of your little winding spool that you made.  Also, do you already know how many feet of wire is required for the secondary winding?

Bruce

Somewhere around 90' or so. 131 turns seems to fit well. A bit more turns if no longitudinals are wound underneath.

Here's a shot of the winding spool along with a scrap of the wire with the teflon insulation pulled off.

Bob

Quote from: eldarion on August 04, 2007, 10:04:15 PM
Bob,

While we wait for our cores to arrive (and you wait for your wire to come), would you mind sharing with us how you did the original unstable "golf cart" experiment?  I read somewhere that you took three separate toroidal transformers and hooked up the primaries in a wye, then conected them to some kind of three phase source.  Each toriod's output was then rectified and combined with the other rectified outputs which gave O/U?  I am not sure if I have all of this correct; is there anything missing or wrong?

I scavenged these three identical toroidal transformers from old computer power supplies and would like to put them to good use.  I would like to see if my FPGA-based controller might be able to stabilize the power output (don't worry, I'd always run it with at least a small battery in the loop somewhere in case the controls failed! ;) )

EDIT: As I have had more time to gain a better understanding of this technology, I guess my question should be: how did you manage to get the required interference patterns with three independent transformers? ???
EDIT2: I might have figured this out--I'll build and test it in the next couple of days and see if I'm right! :)  My description above is definitely incomplete!

Thank you,

Eldarion

As you apparently already surmised, they were not so independent that their fields did not blend. They were driven with the g-strain energy absorber, which already uses holes in P material to draw in electrons from the environment. It was set up as a free-running endless amplifier oscillator.

Bob

I decided not to wait, so I unwound one of my 8" hydroxy toroids for the secondary wire. A few passes back n forth on the lathe with some spools, and all the little bends were worked out. A day and night of winding and a crude secondary was born. Doesn't look like much... yet.

Bob

Now to begin the transformation. Using a vitamin C powder bottle, we lock the center in place, and melt in wax to solidly secure the windings in the toroid hole. We then use small beads of wax to preliminarily space the windings around the perimeter at the sides.

Bob

Measuring the outside diameter and using some math, it worked out that I needed about 0.080" of space between the windings around the perimeter. So off to Home Depot for some 0.080" weedwacker line. This was cut into 133 little pieces 1.5" long each. The toroid was taped around the center of the perimeter with winding tape. Then the spaces between the windings were filled with these cut bits of line, while keeping things tight.

Bob

With the perimeter well taped, the excess wax is removed and the windings on both sides straightened. I'm not finished, but too tired to do any more after another all-nighter. The former ugly duckling secondary is transforming into a swan before my very eyes ;-)

Bob

Quote from: Motorcoach1 on August 05, 2007, 01:05:19 AM
Bob i'm not so sure it was a bang . when you wraped the core with the outside windings and the inside wind and added the flat wind on top and bottom. there may be a thing that happens in the passive side. as the natural freq's change you think that the mag lev might have been in tune and when it moved the resonant freq's changed and fell ?  I noticed you shot Pics in front of your monitor and thats a real strong mag feild , if the monitor went to sleep the field would change. I would put the Torriod in the frezzer for a week and if you can get dry ice that would be better, realine the molecular structure in the core before resuming the windings.  self regenaration field ?  when you strike the torriod that will set up a mag field.                                                                                                 @ phase the windings that are diffrent colors in that coil, are the phase condishoners cycle in the winding. I'm not sure why there are 3 coils but it seams that 2 are sufficient the 3ed one might be a control winding when needed in the circut, pulse on pulse off as needed, kind of a twek to the amp levels so it dosen't over drive the curcut.?     

No worries mate. That 21" Sun monitor is off when I am working on the bench in front of it. I swept my K-II EMF meter back and forth over the core several times in all directions, and not so much as a tiny blip of magnetic field is showing as present.

It is odd that the core took that dive across the room while I was in the house. It ended up nearly 20 feet away from the bench, behind my lathe stand. I am keeping the shop door always locked now just in case it had some help of the 2 legged variety. That little mishap cost me the use of a 125' spool of hard to afford 16 guage silver plated solid wire, and a couple of days of labor.

Bob

Beautiful work Bob.  I've heard about torroids on steroids, but I never heard until now about torroids on vitamin C.  ;)

Quote from: Bob Boyce on August 06, 2007, 05:49:06 AM
It is odd that the core took that dive across the room while I was in the house. It ended up nearly 20 feet away from the bench, behind my lathe stand. I am keeping the shop door always locked now just in case it had some help of the 2 legged variety. That little mishap cost me the use of a 125' spool of hard to afford 16 guage silver plated solid wire, and a couple of days of labor.

Bob

Hey Bob,

That certainly sounded like a 20 foot assisted fall to me.  Unless you have discovered a new form of toroidal propulsion!   ;)

Your coil is looking awesome!  If you have an opportunity to take a picture of your secondary winding tool you described, that would be a great little addition for the .PDF

Great Job!  We are looking very forward to the primary windings.

Bruce

Quote from: btentzer on August 06, 2007, 10:05:10 AM
Hey Bob,

That certainly sounded like a 20 foot assisted fall to me. Unless you have discovered a new form of toroidal propulsion!   ;)

Your coil is looking awesome!  If you have an opportunity to take a picture of your secondary winding tool you described, that would be a great little addition for the .PDF

Great Job!  We are looking very forward to the primary windings.

Bruce

Yes, I thought that I heard the shop door slam right after the loud bang, but thought I was just hearing things. Since it occured after midnight, wifey was asleep, so nobody was at the helm of the CCTV security system to see if any intruder entered the shop. I had the passive IR motion detector alarm on the CCTV system disabled due to the large number of nocturnal critters that roam this area during the summer months, otherwise I would have heard an alarm sound off.

I already posted a picture of my winding spool, loaded with the wire that I had removed from the 8" hydroxy toroid. That picture is on the end of the last page.

Bob

Hi All,

after a massive effort and a lot of hours, here is the latest version of my TPU calculator.

Each section separated by continuous colored lines is independent.
You can be playing around with input parameters in different sections for different TPUs.

There is no rhyme nor reason for the input parameters as given.  While I was writing the spreadsheet I just grabbed numbers that fell down from the sky.

My end goal is a stable TPU with air core and n excitation coils, where n could easily be 8, 16, or even 32.  As n increases so should the stability, but the mechanical tolerances decrease so you have to have more precision as n increases.

Please test drive it and let me know what you think.  I have included just about everything including the kitchen sink.

If you find any math errors, please let me know.

Regards, Earl

Quote from: Bob Boyce on August 06, 2007, 12:09:32 PM
I already posted a picture of my winding spool, loaded with the wire that I had removed from the 8" hydroxy toroid. That picture is on the end of the last page.

Bob

Thanks Bob,

Somehow, I had missed it.

Bruce

Hi All,

attached are modified drawings.

Purpose is to have wires referrenced that everyone can refer to.

Second purpose is to show windings a bit clearer.  Mark, when you return, would you please rerender my two drawings to clearly show winding directions.  I removed the twisted windings on purpose to clearly have a reference for each wire end.  One end of all coils is soldered to the metal cylinder and the other ends enter the cylinder through holes.  For example, the cylinder could be at +12VDC and the holes lead to FET drains.
Another example would be to have the cylinder at "ground" and both coil ends are floating and differential, both going through holes into the cylinder electronics.

The blue inner cylinder that I added shows my hypothetical, cylindrical electronics enclosure made from tinned sheet metal.  This provides electrical, and magnetic shielding to a certain extent.
In addition this cylinder is in the "eye of the tornado vortex" and provides equal length wires to both ends of all excitation coils.

Some of you may now see where my thinking is heading to, with rat race of order n.  I don't envision any stuttering or pulse swallowing, only a smooth-running rat race, steady as a Swiss sewing machine.  Then open up a hole for a vortex creation by providing an orthogonal electrostatic or magnetostatic field.  Anyway, that is how my thinking goes today.  Difficult trying to be an aether Engineer since I can't even spell Neanderthalz.  There are hundreds of experiments to try:  counter-rotating excitation, orthogonal electrodynamic excitation of 110/220 VAC 50/60 Hz, etc., etc.

Regards, Earl

@ Earl

Very nice! I wish I had the ability to make drawings like that. About the closest I can get is to just build the device and take pictures as I go. My artistic abilities using the MicroShaft Paint program in windows is limited to rather crude stick drawings. I can't even draw very good looking coils with that.

Yes, I agree, there is much experimentation yet to be done. I spent a lot of time working to improve upon the hydroxy tech, for the benefit of others, while my true interests have always been in direct energy tech. Unfortunately, the research funding for direct energy was just not available, so I had to make do. Thank goodness that at the power supply end of things, they were inter-related, and I was able to sneak in some experimenting here and there in between the hydroxy research projects. The hydroxy research allowed me to build a fairly well equipped shop with some limited machining abilities. Now that the hydroxy projects are largely over and done with, I will have more time to experiment where my true interests are. I would like to explore with adding additional field modulation patterns that may increase the versatility of the power output.

Bob

If you were to power-up a ring underground, say in a basement or cellar, could you expect tha same results as above ground and would it be as safe?

Thanks

Quote from: Grumpy on August 06, 2007, 05:13:46 PM
If you were to power-up a ring underground, say in a basement or cellar, could you expect tha same results as above ground and would it be as safe?

Thanks

Never tried it, as I don't have a basement.

Bob

Thanks Bob.  Never hurts to ask those odd questions.

@  Bob B.
   Down to the wire on my controller so need to ask what amount of phase shift would you recommend as the upper limit? I would like to go ahead and install the shift circuit on channel 2 and 3 with a cut out switch to disable it. thanks

thaelin

Bob,

I have a few questions for you if you don't mind. :)

1.) Is the attached core connection diagram correct?
2.) I understand that the bias supply controls extractable power out, and that it should be 160VDC.  What amplitude should the primary coil pulse signals be set to?
3.) I have heard on some of this kind of technology that voltage reversals in the primaries kill the effect.  Is that true here as well?
4.) What base primary frequency (ballpark) will a coil like this operate at?  Or is it dependent on the load and individual core?
5.) With regards to the magnetic bias, I just wanted to verify that I can pulse the magnetic bias coil without killing the effect?

Thank you.  I know it's a lot of questions--I have been thinking about the TPU for a while, and would like it to work on the first try! ;D

Eldarion

Quote from: Thaelin on August 07, 2007, 09:29:04 PM
@  Bob B.
Down to the wire on my controller so need to ask what amount of phase shift would you recommend as the upper limit? I would like to go ahead and install the shift circuit on channel 2 and 3 with a cut out switch to disable it. thanks

thaelin

@ thaelin

You will only need +/- a fraction of a degree, but I would opt for a bit more. +/- 1 degree would be more than enough.

Bob

Quote from: eldarion on August 08, 2007, 01:10:41 PM
Bob,

I have a few questions for you if you don't mind. :)

1.) Is the attached core connection diagram correct?
2.) I understand that the bias supply controls extractable power out, and that it should be 160VDC.  What amplitude should the primary coil pulse signals be set to?
3.) I have heard on some of this kind of technology that voltage reversals in the primaries kill the effect.  Is that true here as well?
4.) What base primary frequency (ballpark) will a coil like this operate at?  Or is it dependent on the load and individual core?
5.) With regards to the magnetic bias, I just wanted to verify that I can pulse the magnetic bias coil without killing the effect?

Thank you.  I know it's a lot of questions--I have been thinking about the TPU for a while, and would like it to work on the first try! ;D

Eldarion

1. Mostly correct. The common tie point of the 3 coil positives is fed through a low pass filter, similar to that you have drawn in for the HVDC bias.

2. Primary pulse potential can be 13.8 VDC, as in the hydroxy gas toroidal power system, or you can drive it with higher potential - if you have it available. Similar to HVDC bias potential, the higher it is, the more effect it has.

3. What do you mean by voltage reversals? If you are referring to reversing which lead is positive and which lead is negative, then yes.

4. I don't have any answer for you, as the frequencies used will be determined by the size and construction of your coils and core. Do you have a sweep generator?

5. The magnetic bias power supply leads should be filtered as well. While you may get some interesting effects by allowing modulation to pass through into the magnetic bias field, I have not tested this yet.

Please try to understand, most of my recent experience with the construction and use of these toroidal power systems has been limited to the hydroxy gas version, which is a very mild pulsed mode version. I have done a lot of testing of rotational variants, and much of that ended in catastrophic failure. This has taught me many things not to do. Primary lesson learned was to always maintain tight control over the operation of the system.

My Tesla radiant energy research and resulting experiments really helped me with this toroidal power system research, as I truly feel that they are very closely related.

Bob

Edit: You may want to eliminate capacitors on the toroidal winding side of the chokes, C3 for the LPF in your drawing.

Quote from: Bob Boyce on August 08, 2007, 07:14:59 PM
1. Mostly correct. The common tie point of the 3 coil positives is fed through a low pass filter, similar to that you have drawn in for the HVDC bias.

2. Primary pulse potential can be 13.8 VDC, as in the hydroxy gas toroidal power system, or you can drive it with higher potential - if you have it available. Similar to HVDC bias potential, the higher it is, the more effect it has.

3. What do you mean by voltage reversals? If you are referring to reversing which lead is positive and which lead is negative, then yes.

4. I don't have any answer for you, as the frequencies used will be determined by the size and construction of your coils and core. Do you have a sweep generator?

5. The magnetic bias power supply leads should be filtered as well. While you may get some interesting effects by allowing modulation to pass through into the magnetic bias field, I have not tested this yet.

Please try to understand, most of my recent experience with the construction and use of these toroidal power systems has been limited to the hydroxy gas version, which is a very mild pulsed mode version. I have done a lot of testing of rotational variants, and much of that ended in catastrophic failure. This has taught me many things not to do. Primary lesson learned was to always maintain tight control over the operation of the system.

My Tesla radiant energy research and resulting experiments really helped me with this toroidal power system research, as I truly feel that they are very closely related.

Bob

Bob,

Thank you for all of that info!  In #3, you were correct, I was referring to voltage polarity reversals.

I am assuming you mean a function generator with the ability to sweep frequencies--yes, I have one built-in to my TPU controller.  I use it quite often to find the resonant frequencies of various coils.

Eldarion

OK, I have another question! ;D

Would this circuit be a better choice to drive the primaries with instead of the usual power MOSFET / driver combo?
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2582.msg41929.html#msg41929

From what I can tell it would seem to be, especially with the 10ns pulse width.  With your three-phase experiments did you ever have almost zero input power like Earl is talking about?

If this is a better choice, then I can build one on a board that will plug in to my controller instead of the power MOSFET board.

Thank you,

Eldarion

Hi Eldarion,

In my opinion, the low-pass filter that I have suggested to keep RF out of the bias supply must have C3 at the TPU in order to keep the output power loop physcially as small as possible.  See my attached explanation.

Regards, Earl

Quote from: Earl on August 10, 2007, 04:29:04 PM
Hi Eldarion,

In my opinion, the low-pass filter that I have suggested to keep RF out of the bias supply must have C3 at the TPU in order to keep the output power loop physcially as small as possible.  See my attached explanation.

Regards, Earl

@ Earl

You seem to be thinking transversely. Assuming that the primary load energy flow would be from induced phase differential from one end of the secondary to the other, which would be coupled to the load through both caps - as you show. Granted, there is energy in that mode, but that would only be a portion of the total energy available. Please try to entertain the notion that modulated longitudinal energy is induced into the secondary winding from outside, and into the secondary/earth dipole. Modulated longitudinal energy flows through C1, and through the load to ground. A capacitor at C3 would shunt a portion of that energy to ground, bypassing the load. Just ponder this alternative viewpoint.

Bob

Quote from: eldarion on August 10, 2007, 02:24:33 PM
OK, I have another question! ;D

Would this circuit be a better choice to drive the primaries with instead of the usual power MOSFET / driver combo?
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2582.msg41929.html#msg41929

From what I can tell it would seem to be, especially with the 10ns pulse width.  With your three-phase experiments did you ever have almost zero input power like Earl is talking about?

If this is a better choice, then I can build one on a board that will plug in to my controller instead of the power MOSFET board.

Thank you,

Eldarion

@Eldarion
I looked at the link and was confused a bit by the next post stating that it was the wrong circuit ;-) In answer to your question, my last test toroidal transformer was pulsed with about 270 mA average current @ 13.8 VDC on the primaries. This was total average current of all 3 primaries added together. Just keep in mind that it can take high peak impulse currents to create fast potential transitions.

Bob

Hey Eldarion,

I also spoke to Earl about that circuit and I will be building and trying it out myself. If the transition time becomes a problem, you can just use the driver chips themselves to drive the coil. The mic4427 IC's are guaranteed to charge 1000pF in 20ns. That should be more than enough to charge the tiny bit of capacitance in our TPU coils if the Flip flop isn't beefy enough. But in either case, we still don't need the fets as long as the pulse is fast and short. I'm not sure how small the pulse width would be on the driver chips without the fet on them. When using the IRF840s, I was able to get the pulse width down to about 380ns so you should be able to do much much better just using the driver chip alone.

God Bless,
Jason O

Hi Bob,

I have modified the low-pass filter, adding a choke and a resistance (under the assumption that the HV bias current is very small).  The resistor would also make the choke a low-Q inductor and eliminate resonances in the choke.

Your comments?

Regards, Earl

Quote from: Bob Boyce on August 10, 2007, 11:50:34 PM

Quote from: Earl on August 10, 2007, 04:29:04 PM
Hi Eldarion,

In my opinion, the low-pass filter that I have suggested to keep RF out of the bias supply must have C3 at the TPU in order to keep the output power loop physcially as small as possible.  See my attached explanation.

Regards, Earl

@ Earl

You seem to be thinking transversely. Assuming that the primary load energy flow would be from induced phase differential from one end of the secondary to the other, which would be coupled to the load through both caps - as you show. Granted, there is energy in that mode, but that would only be a portion of the total energy available. Please try to entertain the notion that modulated longitudinal energy is induced into the secondary winding from outside, and into the secondary/earth dipole. Modulated longitudinal energy flows through C1, and through the load to ground. A capacitor at C3 would shunt a portion of that energy to ground, bypassing the load. Just ponder this alternative viewpoint.

Bob

Quote from: Jdo300 on August 11, 2007, 02:33:50 AM
Hey Eldarion,

I also spoke to Earl about that circuit and I will be building and trying it out myself. If the transition time becomes a problem, you can just use the driver chips themselves to drive the coil. The mic4427 IC's are guaranteed to charge 1000pF in 20ns. That should be more than enough to charge the tiny bit of capacitance in our TPU coils if the Flip flop isn't beefy enough. But in either case, we still don't need the fets as long as the pulse is fast and short. I'm not sure how small the pulse width would be on the driver chips without the fet on them. When using the IRF840s, I was able to get the pulse width down to about 380ns so you should be able to do much much better just using the driver chip alone.

God Bless,
Jason O

@ all
I have free samples coming from Texas Instruments. The UCC27321 / UCC27322 and the UCC37321 / UCC37322. I will test these to see just how clean and fast they really are.

Here is a link where you can order samples or download the datasheet.

http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/ucc27321.html
http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/ucc27322.html
http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/ucc37321.html
http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/ucc37322.html

Bob

Maybe this will help.

Bob

Hi Bob,

thanks for your reply.  What you are saying is that not only can three primaries serve in a catalytic action each primary with a wire hanging in the air, connected to nothing, but that the secondary can output appreciable power with one lead hanging in the air, connected to nothing.

Did I understand this correctly?

Regards, Earl

Hi Bob,

Thank you very much for the diagram.  We are excited to see the primaries added.  Also, thank you for the testing of the aforementioned.  I look forward to those results.

@ All
Eldarion tested just one primary on our air core.  Open ended.  Eldarion says, "Something interesting is that this is proof that we can get a offset signal directly out of the toroid--i.e. a signal that is non-symmetric on the vertical axis."

I will ask Eldarion to post the scope shot and details.   ;D  Bob will be the only one not surprised!  LOL  I will just tease, that it produced a little juice!

Bruce

Quote from: btentzer on August 11, 2007, 11:47:02 AM@ All
Eldarion tested just one primary on our air core.  Open ended.  Eldarion says, "Something interesting is that this is proof that we can get a offset signal directly out of the toroid--i.e. a signal that is non-symmetric on the vertical axis."

I will ask Eldarion to post the scope shot and details.   ;D  Bob will be the only one not surprised!  LOL  I will just tease, that it produced a little juice!

OK, here you go! :)

I was using a small scavenged iron core toroid from a computer power supply.  The windings all overlap, so I can't do much with it at all other than single phase tests like this.  The air core toroid I wound has primary lengths that are too short and too little coupling, as far as I know.  EDIT: You can see the toroid in the background of the middle picture.

I have attached a schematic of the apparatus, as well as the original pictures that I sent to Bruce.
EDIT2: The scope settings are 5V/div vertical, and 200ns/div horizontal.

And here is my original message:

Quote from: eldarion
Bruce,

I have completed construction of the 20ns driver board--attached are a
couple of pics.

Something interesting (and really the reason I am writing you) is that this
is proof that we can get a offset signal directly out of the toroid--i.e. a
signal that is non-symmetric on the vertical axis.
The scope shot was taken with only one primary connected to the driver
board, and the output of the toroid was connected across a 22 ohm resistor.
The scope leads were placed across that resistor.
No DC bias or anything interesting was applied.  The driver board consumed
about .138W of power at 500KHz (with a 20ns pulse width), and those peaks in
the scope shot are about 0.4 watts, if my scope is measuring them correctly!
:-)

I would say this method shows some promise.  And the best part is, if we're
wrong, then all I have to do is plug the other board back in! :-)

I'm pretty confident we will get some interesting results once a properly wound core is connected to this thing! ;D

Hi Bob,

Thanks for the updates to the circuit board. I personally am very interested in driving the primaries with one-wire input (since I have done that before with a function generator for a transformer and it works great). I have some questions for you:

1. As for the diagram, do you have any rough recommendations for the circuit component values?

2. I took a look at the driver chips you mentioned. I am going to order some samples myself. They are definitely superior to the ones I am using since they can charge a twice the capacitance mine can in the same time. How would you connect the open ended coil to this? Just tie one lead to the output pin?

@ Eldarion,

Great circuit setup! I was very interested to see that you had one of the primary coil left hanging open! If I get a chance, I'm going to try that out myself. I'm going to be testing two TPU pulsing circuits today to see if anything interesting happens. I'll post a schematic for you all later if I get anything worth looking at.

God Bless,
Jason O

Oh by the way, I'll also be on Skype today (Jdo300) if anyone would like to chat/voice chat.

God Bless,
Jason O

Quote from: Earl on August 11, 2007, 11:29:51 AM
Hi Bob,

thanks for your reply.  What you are saying is that not only can three primaries serve in a catalytic action each primary with a wire hanging in the air, connected to nothing, but that the secondary can output appreciable power with one lead hanging in the air, connected to nothing.

Did I understand this correctly?

Regards, Earl

When you have DC bias potential applied to that secondary, it is no longer connected to nothing. It is coupled to the surrounding environment. The higher the bias potential, the larger the bubble of environment it is coupled to. I am hoping that you understand.

Bob

Quote from: Jdo300 on August 11, 2007, 03:53:39 PM
Hi Bob,

Thanks for the updates to the circuit board. I personally am very interested in driving the primaries with one-wire input (since I have done that before with a function generator for a transformer and it works great). I have some questions for you:

1. As for the diagram, do you have any rough recommendations for the circuit component values?

2. I took a look at the driver chips you mentioned. I am going to order some samples myself. They are definitely superior to the ones I am using since they can charge a twice the capacitance mine can in the same time. How would you connect the open ended coil to this? Just tie one lead to the output pin?

God Bless,
Jason O

Which diagram and components?

Yes, those TI drivers have a very nice output stage. Bipolars and FETs for pulling high and low very fast.

Bob

Hi Bob,

I was referring to the very last diagram you showed in your last post. Also, I attached a simple one-wire pulse circuit that I thought of. Is this how you would drive your primaries in one-wire mode?

The other way (which I have tested already) is this circuit here:

(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.overunity.com%2Findex.php%3Faction%3Ddlattach%3Btopic%3D2873.0%3Battach%3D11580&hash=971a8c18b6800a1c45416f73b0c4def2d746a894)

The only thing is that the transformer modifies the pulses going into the coil (which in my case was a good thing since it increased the voltage). But you have to use the right kind of transformer or it doesn't work at all.

God Bless,
Jason O

OK, I was doing some experiments on my air-core coil, and I noticed this.  What is it?  Is it part of the energy conversion process trying to start but not starting because of my air-core coil?  Or is it just something normal?  I didn't see it on the scavenged toroid, so I was curious.

Thanks!

Eldarion

Hey Eldarion, how is your air core toroid wound? By the way, i can chat with you now if you get on Skype

Hi all,

I just finished building and testing the attached circuit. I used Earl's Flip flop idea (adapted for a JK flip flop) to get the pulse width very small, and I used a mic4427 driver as the output stage. The output pulses were about 180 ns wide wit ha rise time of 20 ns. The circuit worked great except for the fact that it was made on a breadboard which, as Earl mentioned, has a lot of capacitance. There was also some crosstalk between some of the traces which influenced the output if you set both input frequencies close to each other.

I used this circuit to test pulsing a single coil from both ends with frequencies. I didn't see anything miraculous but I was able to pick up beat frequency oscillations on other coils (when tested on my TPU). No significant power but one thing is for sure. The one-wire pulse does work. I also used just one of the outputs on the circuit and connected it to one side of the primary of a transformer. I was able to charge up a capacitor on the secondary with the rectified output from the transformer. Keep in mind that I only used the circuit below, no FETS at all :).

God Bless,
Jason O

@Jason,
Good to see the one-wire stuff working yet again! ;)  I am convinced that this is the way to go.

@All,
I'm sure many of you have seen this link before, but this probably explains what is going on in a 2D (solenoidal) TPU-like device:
http://web.archive.org/web/20051210210627/http://www.gyogyitokezek.hu/fe/studyexp.htm

A 3D TPU device (toroidal) would, as Bob has said, have greatly enhanced power output due to the larger, more complex interference pattern.

It would seem that we are building an RF device here, one that is highly dependent on propagation delay, pulse width, wavelength, etc... :)

Hi Bob,

well, I understand yes and no. 
No because half my (traditional) brain says this is opposite to everything I learned and have experienced in life.

Yes, because my RE brain half says the T.T. Brown and Biefeld modified their environment by using high voltages, e.g. electrostatic potential can cause (aetheric ??) deformation similar to deformation caused by the presence of mass.

No, because Biefeld Brown used voltages upwards of 25kV, usually around several hundred kVs, not tens or hundreds of Volts.

I do understand that this is definitely far "outside the box".

I had another idea, which I will float to you.  Since an antenna can be fed anywhere along its length, left side, right right, top side, bottom side, corner, or anywhere in between - with no effect on its radiation performance (yes, you must match impedance) why not the same with a catalytic coil?  By feeding it in the middle, just like any dipole antenna, and using a FET driver with differential output you get TWICE the excitation voltage for essentially no increase in complexity or cost.

Your comments on attached drawing?

EDIT 1: replaced JPG by GIF drawing.

Regards, Earl

PS   I will be traveling this week and may not be able to access the Inet.

Quote from: Bob Boyce on August 11, 2007, 04:29:35 PM

Quote from: Earl on August 11, 2007, 11:29:51 AM
Hi Bob,

thanks for your reply.  What you are saying is that not only can three primaries serve in a catalytic action each primary with a wire hanging in the air, connected to nothing, but that the secondary can output appreciable power with one lead hanging in the air, connected to nothing.

Did I understand this correctly?

Regards, Earl

When you have DC bias potential applied to that secondary, it is no longer connected to nothing. It is coupled to the surrounding environment. The higher the bias potential, the larger the bubble of environment it is coupled to. I am hoping that you understand.

Bob

For some time now I have been trying to prove that the DC potential actually does something to enhance the output--I finally have proof, small though it is! ;D

Attached are three pictures.  The first one is my thought on what the TPU is when reduced to its most basic fundamental state.  This fits perfectly with SM's comment on a garden hose, Bob's comments on, essentially, pulse superposition, etc.  (By the way, a marked difference was noted at the output when the phase was varied from 0 to 120...)

The second picture is the output across a 4.7K resistor without the bias supply engaged (it was connected the whole time so as not to cause a false positive result) and the third picture is the output with the bias supply engaged.  I know it may not seem like much of a difference, but the mere fact that there is a difference is intriguing.  Also interesting is that the output was aided, not loaded down, just like Bob is saying should happen.

Here's a little bit about the setup.  I think that the TPU is a far more refined and enhanced version of this basic idea, which goes back to the link I posted earlier.  The two rods on the bottom of the apparatus are the inputs; they are driven single-ended (no return wire); one is hooked up to phase 1 and one is hooked up to phase 2.  The top rod is the "output coil", which is connected to the HVDC bias and the load in exactly the same way as the schematic that was posted earlier.

Thoughts?  Comments?  Criticism? ::) :D

@reply to myself

It now appears to me that the price to pay may be doubling the length of the coil winding.
e.g. if the end-fed coil has a wire length of 3m, then the center-fed coil must have 3m on
each side of the feed, for a total of 6m.

Double the voltage, but double the coil length still gives the same V/m gradiant.  However, my
gut feeling still prefers differential circuitry compared to single-ended.

Quote from: Earl on August 12, 2007, 07:18:26 AM
By feeding it in the middle, just like any dipole antenna, and using a FET driver with differential output you get TWICE the excitation voltage for essentially no increase in complexity or cost.

@ Earl
If you center feed like that, will you not be injecting 2 out of phase energies? Coil wind direction on the toroid, as well as which end of that coil is being fed, are factors here. E-field propagation through a winding is not instantanious, so it does matter a little bit which end is driven. If you reverse the wind, or reverse the direction of feed, while maintaining the same direction of rotation as per hemisphere, you would have to invert your potentials and swap from a positive E-field bias / negative primary E-field pulses, to a negatve E-field bias / positive primary E-field pulses. Since free electrons tend to outnumber free holes, you should expect to see a corresponding drop in collectable energy.

@ all
Sorry, I've been busy getting parts in, and having a heck of a time with a fruitless search. i have been trying to fing my g-strain energy absorber. It was on the bench in my shop, and it apparently grew legs and ran away. Right after I finally had managed to locate and obtain a few sets of new old stock triple mesa transistors for it. I had some new plans for that old board, oh well. I have parts on the way to build a replacement or two.

Bob

Hey Bob,

I definitely understand what it's like being busy with life. I actually just moved all of my stuff to my apartment in Columbus in preparation for my fall Co-op with the Battelle Institute. So unfortunately, all of my lab equipment and supplies are stuck there (I wont be living there for about another week). However, in the mean time, I'm spending some time learning more about FPGAs and how to program them to make a super duper control circuit with all the bells and whistles we'll ever need.

I just have a couple of questions about driving the coils. I did order some samples of the driver chips you gave us links to (they just arrived yesterday) and I was wondering how you are driving your coils with your hex driver. Are you driving the coils with one wire using MOSFETs ar just using the driver chip output directly? This is the only thing I need to know with regard to the circuit since I will (hopefully) be integrating all the other functionality into the FPGA.

My second question is about the circuit diagram you made that shows the HV bias connections and things. Could you give us some basic component values to work with? At the moment, I am assuming standard values for the filter cap and choke (like 440 uF and 1H??) but I don't have the slightest clue of what to use for the DC blocking cap. Should it be a high value DC cap or a small valued cap?

God Bless,
Jason O

Bob,

I have been experimenting with the attached setup, and had a few questions.  I am using a toroidal neodymium magnet for the core (for a fixed amount of magnetic bias), and have one winding of 22 gauge all the way around the core, and three (ugly!  ::)) windings of 24 gauge for primaries.  I am driving the primaries open-ended with fast MOSFET driver chips, at a frequency of about 62KHz, pulse width 100ns, primary 1 is at 0?, primary 2 is at 120?, and primary 3 is at 240?.

I realize my setup is way outside of what you recommend using, but I was wondering of you could shed some light on the following:
1.) The HVDC bias does absolutely nothing--when I connect it, the output waveform I have attached does not change at all.  It is connected as follows: 160VDC positive lead, high value resistor, then connected to one end of the secondary coil, then that end goes to a 0.22uF DC blocking capacitor, then the load, and finally back to ground.  Scope is connected directly across the 470-ohm load resistor, 5V per vertical division, 10us per horizontal division.

2.) As you can see, I am getting almost zero power output.  Is this because of my setup, or some other issue?

3.) What type of output waveform should I be getting? ;D

This setup is so far out of spec that I am not expecting any overunity, I just thought that the effects would at least try to manifest themselves in some small way...

Thank you very much!  I hope we receive our cores soon, so we can actually build something that will work! :)

Eldarion

Hi Eldarion,

I can answer that question right off the bat. That neo magnet you have for the core is overpowering ALL of the fields from the coils that you are applying. The whole point of the low voltage DC bias is to turn the 2D rotating magnetic field into a 3D vortex field but this also implies that the rotating field must be strong enough to influence the bias fied. Most Neo magnets have a B-field strength of over 2000+ gauss so there is NO WAY you could setup a vortex in a field that strong without having field coils of comparable strength.

So in other words, that big magnet is choking your whole TPU. If I were you, I would replace that magnet with something like a ceramic 5 magnet, whose field strength is much easier to perturb than the Neo.

God Bless,
Jason O

Hi Everyone,

I've still been doing some digging around for the perfect control circuit and I found what I believe to be the ULTIMITE IC for the job. It is called the AD9959 which is a 4-Channel 500 MSPS DDS
with 10-Bit DACs. Basically, you have 4 independent, synchronized sine wave generators that can potentially go up to 100MHz all in a single IC!!! Each channel is programmable which means we can use any microcontroller (doesn't matter how fast) to set the frequencies, amplitude, and phase shift for each channel!

Check out the features listed on the datasheet:

FEATURES

• 4 synchronized DDS channels @ 500 MSPS
• Independent frequency/phase/amplitude control between channels
• Matched latencies for frequency/phase/amplitude changes
• Excellent channel-to-channel isolation (>65 dB)
• Linear frequency/phase/amplitude sweeping capability
• Up to 16 levels of frequency/phase/amplitude modulation (pin-selectable)
• 4 integrated 10-bit D/A converters (DACs)
• Individually programmable DAC full-scale currents
• 32-bit frequency tuning resolution
• 14-bit phase offset resolution
• 10-bit output amplitude scaling resolution
• Serial I/O Port (SPI) with enhanced data throughput

Here's the link to the datasheet:
http://www.analog.com/UploadedFiles/Data_Sheets/210775240AD9959_0.pdf

The output is a sine wave but it would be a simple matter to send the output into a buffer IC to convert it to a square wave. If we use a flip flop, circuit like the one Earl suggested, we can then chop the pulse width way down before sending it to the driver chips.

The only bad thing about this chip is the fact that it only comes in a surface mount package (56 lead LFCSP) which is ridiculously tiny. I"m currently looking around to see if there are any adapter boards for it. Otherwise, I may have to find someone who can solder one to a board for me 'cause I can't see well enough to do it on my own.

God Bless,
Jason O

By the way, I forgot to mention that these ICs are a bit pricey, $37.14. if you buy it from Analog's website. BUT, you can get up to two free sample chips so I ordered two of them. Here's a link to the page to order samples if you are interested:

http://www.analog.com/en/prod/0%2C2877%2CAD9959%2C00.html#price

God Bless,
Jason O

Quote from: Jdo300 on August 17, 2007, 11:07:06 PM
Hi Eldarion,

I can answer that question right off the bat. That neo magnet you have for the core is overpowering ALL of the fields from the coils that you are applying. The whole point of the low voltage DC bias is to turn the 2D rotating magnetic field into a 3D vortex field but this also implies that the rotating field must be strong enough to influence the bias fied. Most Neo magnets have a B-field strength of over 2000+ gauss so there is NO WAY you could setup a vortex in a field that strong without having field coils of comparable strength.

So in other words, that big magnet is choking your whole TPU. If I were you, I would replace that magnet with something like a ceramic 5 magnet, whose field strength is much easier to perturb than the Neo.

God Bless,
Jason O

Jason,

Thanks for confirming my suspicions--I was afraid of that!  It is extremely difficult scrounge up a core that is even close to the correct parameters.

I was doing some poking around, trying to learn more about core materials, best materials for a given application, etc. and came across this page: http://www.w8ji.com/core_selection.htm  There's a lot of good information there--I came across this little gem: A low "turns count" is a good indicator the correct core size and core material is being used.

This is very important to keep in mind--more turns is not always better.  I was always under the impression that more turns meant more power transfer, better flux transfer, etc. but it looks like I fell into a common misconception! :D

Eldarion

Hey Eldarion,

Nice link there. I only understodd about half of what I was reading but it was quite informative.

@Everyone,

I found a simple way that we can monitor the voltage on the output coil for testing purposes. I checked around on eBay and there is a nice selection of PC interface multimeter's that we can use. So all we need to do (if we are using a programmed approach) is do frequency sweeps and  record via the multimeter the output voltage. This would allow us to automate the frequency tuning process, especially when fine tuning the phases.

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=PC+multimeter&category0=

God Bless,
Jason O

picture of my ring.

just have to add the bias stuff.

@Jason,

QuoteI've still been doing some digging around for the perfect control circuit and I found what I believe to be the ULTIMITE IC for the job. It is called the AD9959 which is a 4-Channel 500 MSPS DDS
with 10-Bit DACs. Basically, you have 4 independent, synchronized sine wave generators that can potentially go up to 100MHz all in a single IC!!! Each channel is programmable which means we can use any microcontroller (doesn't matter how fast) to set the frequencies, amplitude, and phase shift for each channel!

Yes, I think this chip has been discussed quite a lot a few weeks back but you must have not seen the posts.
Soldering it does not worry me too much, its etching the PCB with such fine tracks that concerns me.
Re-work soldering can be done using a 20x microscope, 0.5mm solder wire, 0.4mm tip soldering iron.
I will see how I get on with the DDS 20 function gen., I may look at this route too.
Its programming a microcontroller to get it to work thats going to be the challenge.
But at the end of it you will have a unique bit of kit that cannot be bought off the shelf.
The sine wave output can be fed into a high speed comparator to give you a variable duty pulse.
Just vary the bias on the comparator to get the desired pulse width.
Looking at the number of people that are keen on using this chip then maybe its worth putting together all the bits to build it as a team effort - share the work of putting it together.

Regards
Rob

@Bob,

I drew up some pieces of wire, one end fed and two center-fed with 180 degrees phase shift.
It looks to me that the phasing is correct if the center-feed is differential, but as usual I am open to all
positive criticism.

The gray background shows adjacent end-fed wires, resp. adjacent center-fed dipoles.
The phasing here also appears to me to be correct (series-aiding or in-phase).

I am also floating an idea about a concept of a center-fed peripheral coil being energized through a balanced transmission line from the center electronics.  Although I have indicated a magnetically- and electrostatically-shielded electronics area, it is possible that RE will go through this as easily as it goes through 1-yard thick steel.  Another possibility is to put the FET driver next to the coils while keeping the differential pre-driver in the center - - or put both driver and pre-driver at the coil ???

Regards, Earl

Quote from: Bob Boyce on August 13, 2007, 11:00:44 PM
@ Earl
If you center feed like that, will you not be injecting 2 out of phase energies? Coil wind direction on the toroid, as well as which end of that coil is being fed, are factors here. E-field propagation through a winding is not instantanious, so it does matter a little bit which end is driven. If you reverse the wind, or reverse the direction of feed, while maintaining the same direction of rotation as per hemisphere, you would have to invert your potentials and swap from a positive E-field bias / negative primary E-field pulses, to a negatve E-field bias / positive primary E-field pulses. Since free electrons tend to outnumber free holes, you should expect to see a corresponding drop in collectable energy.
Bob

Quote from: Earl on August 12, 2007, 07:18:26 AM
Hi Bob,
[snip]
I had another idea, which I will float to you.  Since an antenna can be fed anywhere along its length, left side, right right, top side, bottom side, corner, or anywhere in between - with no effect on its radiation performance (yes, you must match impedance) why not the same with a catalytic coil?  By feeding it in the middle, just like any dipole antenna, and using a FET driver with differential output you get TWICE the excitation voltage for essentially no increase in complexity or cost.

Your comments on attached drawing?

Regards, Earl

Hi Bob,

I was wondering if you might be willing to offer some advice here:

I have a scrounged-up iron powder core that runs in the HF region just fine, as far as I can tell.
I have wound only a secondary (360? around the entire core) and three primaries--I have attached a picture below.

When I feed a pulse sequence of 25KHz, 50KHz, and 100KHz into each of the three primary windings, I get the output waveform shown in the attached scope shot.  The pulse width in this case was 250ns for all three frequencies.
The scope settings are: 5V/vertical division, 5us/horizontal division.

When I varied the phase, nothing really changed on the output waveform.  Is this normal?
Also, what does the output look like across a load resistor with a properly functioning device?  Am I even close? ;D

Thank you (and thanks for the information on the OUPower.com board--it helped a lot!)

Eldarion

hello Jason and Bob

plan on uesing hi-temp quick dry Silicones 

to hold my wire in place  do you have objections?

will hold up to heavey vibration and hi temp.


wer

Hi All,

I have updated Earl's corner, if you have any replies, please reply there instead of in this main thread.

@Bob B

Please take a look at my latest measurements and especially I would like your comments on my latest thought experiment.  Since my circuitry is now evolving towards quadrature phasing, this means a minimum of 4 coils.  Since I don't want to distract from the main 3-coil thread, I will be keeping my little corner separate from this main thread.  As soon as I find the time, I will update the thought experiment to show all four coils with phasing.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2996.msg45922.html#msg45922

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2996.msg45930.html#msg45930

Best regards, Earl

Here is a source for both the 20 guage, and 16 guage, solid silver plated wire with teflon insulation. Contact Steve at ApexJr surplus in California to see if he has what you need. Myself and some other replicators have had very good luck with buying this wire from Steve.

http://www.apexjr.com

I hope this helps.

Bob

I?m back in Australia... and been doing more testing on toroidal ferrite cores, but first some comments on TPU testing and stability.

1.   For monitoring speed of light variations place a small crystal oscillator in the middle of the device. You can use this to monitor for any time dilation effects while tuning the devices. This could also be used for feedback control of external timing devices.


On reflection I will leave it at that. However I would suggest that people do a lot of basic testing of resonance modes with various windings before proceeding to wind a ?finished device?. I have started basic testing and have already encountered a number of interesting behaviours ? these are all with single ended drives. Right now the results are so varied and weird that I am still confused and will wait until it makes sense before commenting further.
I can tell you that when driving single ended that pulses offer no benefit over square and sine wave drive. Bob Boyce agrees on this point. This makes drive design much simpler.

Sigh ? great deliberations if I should say more or not at this stage... Longitudinal waves are the way to get interesting energy pumping effects. Transverse waves are just a waste of power. To a degree you want to maximize the amplitude of longitudinal energy to optimize energy pumping ? resonance of longitudinal modes achieves this. Biasing helps both in pushing things into collective behaviours and reducing excursions into unproductive signal regions.

@ Bob

Thank you for the source.  I think that everyone has already ordered their wire, but this will be good to have, if and when anyone should need more. 

Do we just wind the primaries CCW, evenly spaced, if winding 6, over that last layer of tape, where your build left off?  Wax on the primaries and then tape over these again, to finish?  Or is there some other step?

Thank you Bob, we appreciate you and your time very much.

@ Mark

Welcome back, my friend.  You and your insight have been missed.  Now that everyones cores are arriving, things should get a bit more lively around here I hope. 

Warm regards to All,
Bruce

Hi Bob B.
   I was just online trying to get the necessary wire and ran into a problem with the #16. Seems no one supplies it. I can get 18 and 20 real easy but 16 is multistrand. How much trouble will the 18 cause? Surpluss has none either.

thaelin

Quote from: Thaelin on August 29, 2007, 05:47:41 PM
Hi Bob B.
   I was just online trying to get the necessary wire and ran into a problem with the #16. Seems no one supplies it. I can get 18 and 20 real easy but 16 is multistrand. How much trouble will the 18 cause? Surpluss has none either.

thaelin

Yes, you can use 18 guage. It will change the operating parameters a bit. Where are you located? I may be able to help you to find the 16 guage wire in solid.

Bob

Hi Bob:
   I reside in Portland Ore. area. Looking for 200ft of each. Thanks a bunch.

thaelin

Quote from: Thaelin on August 30, 2007, 03:35:42 AM
Hi Bob:
   I reside in Portland Ore. area. Looking for 200ft of each. Thanks a bunch.

thaelin

@thaelin

What other size are you needing besides the 16 guage? I know of several places that have lots of the PTFE insulated 20 guage silver plated solid copper that is used for the primaries. ApexJr has a lot of that size, as does Skycraft Surplus in FL. Also can be found on eBay, quite common, and quite inexpensive as compared to buying new. 18 guage is also very easy to find, and if you are doing this as an energy experiment, 18 guage works just fine. The 16 guage was chosen for a particular application (the hydroxy gas application) not related to this energy only use.

I am waiting for another spool of the PTFE insulated 16 guage silver plated solid copper to be shipped out today from ApexJr in CA. I guess I must have picked up the last of what Steve had available, as he has said many people have called since I posted the information. I had arranged to get that spool of wire so that it can be divided up amongst some replicators I know that were short on funds to buy for themselves. I do know it is also still available from other sources, but at a premium that I personally cannot afford.

All I do to find this wire at the surplus prices is call around to surplus vendors and ask them to go check and see if they happen to have any full or partial spools hiding in their inventory. Most have had some and not even known about it! Steve didn't know he had a couple of spools until he actually started digging around and looking for it. Sometimes I find partial spools with a few hundred feet on them, and the prices are usually 1/3rd, or less, of the new price.

Bob

Sorry I did not post this sooner. I have been recovering from the fatigue of staying with my wife at the hospital during and after her most recent surgery.

Here is a picture of the T650-52 core, how it looks after being taped up and prepared for the winding of the primaries.

Bob

===

thaelin

I finally managed to get an LC meter from eBay. It is a Sinometer model VC6243. Here are the readings taken using it.

Top Flat Spiral 0.293 mH
Bottom Flat Spiral 0.304 mH
Inner Longitudinal 0.284 mH
Outer Longitudinal 1.151 mH
Secondary 6.82 mH

Interesting that both top and bottom spiral windings are identical in diameter, turns, and spacing, and only differ in which side is against the core. Yet they read a bit different.

Bob

I have just posted some experimental tests results on longitudinal resonances in a large toroidal core here
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2877.new.html#new

I dont want to divert the focus of this thread but I do think that these results are significant to understand -- these sorts of resonance will be present in the iron powder core although probably with much lower Q's. I am holding off winding my big core untill I have done more basic research like this -- if you asked me right now I would recommend winding the core in such a way that you dont restrict it's ability to sustain magnetoacoustic resoances.

cheers

Mark

I just posted some relevant experimental results here: http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2764.msg51426.html#msg51426

I am still holding off winding the big micrometals core untill I have done more basic experiments. Right now everything seems to make perfect sense -- the experimental results are agreeing with theory. My next major experiment will be to cross modulate the fundamental magnetiacoustic mode with one of it's higher harmonics on the ferroxcube core. I know this should work from experimental results at different bias fields in the core (they strongly modulate the magnetoacoustic resonance frequency). However I want to move onto resonant (blocking oscillator design) drives for two signals -- which will dramatically reduce the input power.

cheers

mark.

@ All

Please download the newest, latest version of the Bob Boyce Toroid System, >.PDF V.1.5

This can now be downloaded from page one of this thread, at the bottom of the last photograph on the build page.

A couple of new chapters, photos and many more of Bob's comments and teaching, can be found in this version, as well as a few other things.  Enjoy!

@ Bob,

Thank you very much for the heads up about the winding.  I am already surpassed where my winding was, and now have the confidence that it is correct, this time.  I have also applied spacers to my two newly wound primaries, as we did to the secondary, which I did not realize was needed, until your post.  So, thank you again!

High regards to all,   ;D
Bruce

nevermind.

thaelin

@bob @all

Well this is interesting... I have a whole set of resonances in the 1 - 12Hz range!!!

Let me back up here a bit first. This is using the Ferroxcube core I am testing but I think the results are highly relevant to everyone -- so I am posting a prelimenary note here. All these tests are with open ended drives and high impedance loads -- so I am talking about potential resonances and not magnetic or magnetoacoustic resonances. You cant drive any significant load from these resonance modes (in the configuration I am testing).

In addition to the 1.8 MHz resonance I posted on earlier I have a fundamental resonance in the 60 - 90Khz range (it varies depending on exact configuration). I was scanning over the full frequency range with both square and sine wave drive when I stumbled onto the resonances in the VLF range. The VLF drive was stimulating the 80KHz resonant mode -- directly and as complex beats. This amazed me untill I went back to the main resonance in the 80KHz range and plotted it's dependance on drive ampllitude -- the 80KHz resonant frequency is strongly dependant on drive amplitude. (2KHz variation from 300mv - 2400mv PP drive).

I wont give details of the configuration just now as thats not important and I have a lot more testing to do first -- the important thing to note is that with a stong dependance on drive amplitude we have another non linear system... which can be modulated by (or couple to) VLF signals.
It also means that there will be non-linear modulation (hetrodyning) of multiple input freequencies based on amplitude alone.

So: I have now seen a mechanism for both magnetoacoustic and potential non-linear signal modulation.

... which means that the system is a lot more complicated than I would ever have imagined. We have two distinct mechanisms for non-linear signal modulation: E and B potential -- with two or three inputs the potential for feedback hetrodyning means that you could generate/tap into just about any frequency you want.

If that has lost you all then I'll leave you with one further message -- this tends to confirm my idea that you can modulate the output via the static bias. This would be the perfect way to generate power in sync with the mains.

Mark.

It all starts with the primary potential, which makes the fields.

This is all I'm working on now - potentials.

Bob,

I have a few more questions for you, if you don't mind ;)

1.) Have you ever observed a cooling effect in the coil or does it always run hot?  I was wondering if the coil may actually be utilizing some thermal energy from the environment...just a shot in the dark.
2.) Is it OK to put a capacitor across each of the primaries when driven in single-ended mode, in order to "force" a resonance at a lower frequency?  Or will this not work with the longitudinal energy?  Just wondering, as I found that the primary coil resonance is very weak with the small capacitance in my test coils.
3.) I noticed that someone deleted the posts on OUPower.com related to the TPU.  I personally found those very helpful as a way to realign my thinking every time I go off on a "conventional electronics" thought path.  Is there any way you might be able to re-post them here?  They also seemed to sum up the basics of the energy converter nicely.

Thank you! :)

Eldarion

Quote from: eldarion on September 28, 2007, 09:39:47 PM
Bob,

I have a few more questions for you, if you don't mind ;)

1.) Have you ever observed a cooling effect in the coil or does it always run hot?  I was wondering if the coil may actually be utilizing some thermal energy from the environment...just a shot in the dark.
2.) Is it OK to put a capacitor across each of the primaries when driven in single-ended mode, in order to "force" a resonance at a lower frequency?  Or will this not work with the longitudinal energy?  Just wondering, as I found that the primary coil resonance is very weak with the small capacitance in my test coils.
3.) I noticed that someone deleted the posts on OUPower.com related to the TPU.  I personally found those very helpful as a way to realign my thinking every time I go off on a "conventional electronics" thought path.  Is there any way you might be able to re-post them here?  They also seemed to sum up the basics of the energy converter nicely.

Thank you! :)

Eldarion

@Eldarion

You can tune it to run cool, or you can tune it to run hot, if you use the right kind of core and wire. If you use the wrong kind of core and/or wire, it can run hot from excess eddy current even if you try to tune for otherwise.

A capacitor across the core will shunt and waste energy. Capacitors are not usually very efficient at high frequencies. The TPS does not scale down very well, as the really high frequencies smaller units would require should be totally avoided if you value your health.

Those posts from oupower are lost and gone. I did not save them anywhere.

Bob

The new HexController+ Deluxe board arrived today. I installed the surface mount caps first before I paint the board. Boy are those 330 pf SMT caps tiny ;-)

Bob

12x overunity achieved in longitudinal wave tests ... http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2877.new.html#new

Quote from: MarkSnoswell on September 29, 2007, 11:59:43 AM
12x overunity achieved in longitudinal wave tests ... http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2877.new.html#new

That is great news Mark. Keep up the research, there is still more to discover. You can find 100X or more ;-)

Bob

Sprayed the PCB with Testors #1601 to protect it. After it dried well enough to handle, I started mounting parts.

I ran out of a few parts in my parts bins, will have to place an order.

I was able to power-test the board prior to inserting the ICs. Everything checked out OK up to this point.

Bob

Hi Bob,

Nice control board there!

I just received the properly wound core from Bruce, and have been attempting to fire it up in low-power pulsed mode.

I cannot seem to get the HV secondary bias to have any effect on the load resistor, however.  In addition, there is very little power coming out (on the order of milliwatts).  I don't think this is right! :D

Would you mind offering some advice here?  I am not sure where to proceed from this point.

I found a resonance at ~7.6KHz, which I believe is the secondary winding resonance.  (It changes when the load capacitance changes) 
Is this the resonance you are talking about when you say to multiply the resonant frequency by 1.5?  The primaries resonate up in the hundreds of kilohertz.

I am using 500ns pulses at about 10KHz.  When I varied the phase from 120.0 degrees to 120.1 degrees and above, nothing happened.  What am I looking for when I vary the phase?  A jump in power output or something else?

Will the effects occur at any reasonable frequency, or do I have to find a specific resonance before I can expect to see anything?

Will I be able to see some low-power effects without magnetic bias applied?  From what I understand, the magnetic bias merely aids in the control of the unstable rotational operation mode, and therefore shouldn't be needed just yet if I am running pulsed mode.

You can see my output waveform over in my thread if you like.  That waveform was taken across a 470-ohm resistor with a DC blocking capacitor between it and the secondary winding.  The other end of the secondary was connected to ~80V.

Sorry for all the questions! ;)  I just can't help but feel that I am missing something obvious here...

Eldarion

@Eldarion

Without seeing how you are connected and what you are doing, I would only be guessing. Every time I tried to load the newest posts from your thread, the browser locks up. I tried about 7 or 8 times and it locks up my browser every time. I guess it's because I'm on dialup and the scripting for images is locking up when it takes too long to load.

Have you tried using a light bulb as a load on the secondary with a DC blocking cap?

Bob

Quote from: Bob Boyce on October 03, 2007, 11:18:48 PM
@Eldarion

Without seeing how you are connected and what you are doing, I would only be guessing. Every time I tried to load the newest posts from your thread, the browser locks up. I tried about 7 or 8 times and it locks up my browser every time. I guess it's because I'm on dialup and the scripting for images is locking up when it takes too long to load.

Have you tried using a light bulb as a load on the secondary with a DC blocking cap?

Bob

Bob,

No, I have not yet tried a light bulb--I was using a standard carbon-film resistor.

Bruce brough up a good point to me--the pulsed mode is only for the hydroxy generator. correct?  He has suggested that adding the magnetic bias may allow the system to operate in the first place, which will be my next test.

If you like, I can E-mail you pictures of my setup.  They are relatively small, around 100k or so each.

Thanks!

Eldarion

Well, I just tested the magnetic bias at several amperage levels, ranging from 10mA to 5.2A.  No joy.

I am really quite puzzled by this.  Is there a minimum load impedance required for the system to operate?

I am using a 220uF 100V DC blocking capacitor and a 470-ohm resistor.  (I had been using a 0.22uF cap., but I realized the impedance at 10KHz was over 70 ohms--not very good!)

The only thing I noted was that if I connected one end of the magnetic bias coil to ground, and left the other end open, the magnetic bias coil would resonate and superimpose its oscillations on the secondary output.  I didn't think that would happen, as the magnetic bias coil is wound at 90? to the secondary, there should be no magnetic coupling whatsoever.

Which coil am I supposed to resonate?  The primaries or the secondary?

I was thinking about the operational principles involved here--are we literally allowing one primary coil pulse to travel at some velocity in the core, and firing the next coil in line just as that travelling impulse hits that next coil?  If that is the case, then we need to operate the coil at a much higher frequency than 10KHz base!  From my measurements on this coil, the intercoil travel time is on the order of hundreds of nanoseconds.

I have attached a schematic of the coil end of my setup; I tried to keep the image size small so that you won't have problems loading it on dial up.  The pulse generator right now is generating the 1-2-4 frequency stepping at 120.0 phase 2 and 240.0 phase 3 (variable phase).

I can also attach the scope shots of the primary drive signal if you want.

Thank you again for helping us with this technology!

Eldarion

EDIT:  Arghh!  I just compared the waveform you gave me earlier with the actual waveform coming out of my pulse generator, and the red pulse (frequency 2) is in the wrong spot in the grouping that has the missing pulse!  Could this mess things up badly enough that the effect will not manifest?  See attached waveform picture)

Bob, All,

Well I was able to fix my pulse generator, and the first thing different that I noticed was an odd pulsating if I monitored the input signal to the second-frequency primary coil.  The pulsing was not present on the MOSFET gate drive signals, nor was it present on the earlier, incorrect version of the pulse generator.  Also, it changed frequency if I put my hand near the coil, and disappeared altogether if I disconnected just one of the primary drive signals.  It is very unstable, sometimes oscillating so fast that I cannot see it, and often drifting in frequency by itself.  Applying HV bias drive did alter the frequency of it (sped it up considerably, but did so slowly, kind of like a turbine...)

It is not present in my power supply, could it be the overunity signature? ;D  I have attached a short video of it...any ideas on what it is are welcome!!!

I will continue to experiment and see if I can actually get the coil to work this time, but I still need to know which coil(s) I am supposed to resonate.

Oh, the frequency was 7KHz and the pulse with was 500ns.  This was non-open-ended primary drive with the output shorted through the filter cap.  Standard 0.0-120.0-240.0 phase timing.

EDIT:  This may be a 'scope issue, so please don't take this as proof of anything!! ;)  I need to run a lot more tests...
EDIT2: This effect has now disappeared (I have no idea why!!!) and I still cannot get any decent output from the coil, so I am back where I started.  Any help would be welcome...

Eldarion

@Eldarion

Bruce is correct. The majority of the power output from the secondary is longitudinal in nature and will not show up directly on a scope, but it will be absorbed by water, if the water is entrained - and the frequency is right. You can see any transverse energy that may be induced by the longitudinal energy. This longitudinal energy must be converted to see it on a scope. This is what I was referring to before as energy conversion. Still working on ways of doing this that does not require water. It can light up a light bulb though. Try a much smaller value cap for higher impedance output, as it is entirely possible to swamp the output without even knowing it.

Yes, the order of the pulses is important, looked like you initially had it connect 1,3,2 instead of 1,2,3

The spool up and spool down is very common. It sounds like you may have had it and then lost it. Even though the energy is not directly viewable on the scope, you can see the impact it has upon the other parts of the system. Please be very careful, as even if you cannot view or measure the energy, it can get away from you.

For something you should be able view and test with transverse equipment, take a look at each of the longitudinal coil outputs while the unit is running. Resonance is not absolutely required to see an output, but frequency does affect how well it works. Compare the output characteristics to what has been described.

Bob

@Erdarion,

You might think about obtaining some neon NE-2 tubes, which might be available at your local or mail-order store.
They are available here:  http://www.neonixie.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=139

There are also small 4 to 8 Watt battery-powered flourescent tubes available.  Another possibility is to elevate the TPU on a plastic or ??? mount so that the weight is carried by the mount, but lets a circular flourescent lamp fit around it such that the TPU is almost sitting on the round flourescent tube.  No weight or stress directly on the tube, of course.

http://teklight.com/flourescent.html

This might be a good way to have a visual indication that something is happening or about to happen, even if you can not see it on your measuring equipment.

I have used such lamps in the past to test antenna tuners and antennas for Ham radio transmitters.

Earl

Thank you for all of your help and ideas!  I will see what I can do later on today (have to head off to work now).

So the coils on the top and bottom face of the core (at 90? to the primary coils) output conventional TEM energy?  That would explain why the odd things I was seeing were confined to the magnetic bias coils...and why SM tapped power from pickup coils in a similar configuration...

I'll let everyone know as soon as I have something. :)

Eldarion

Well, I have tried some other configurations, as well as the things suggested (except for the flouresecent tubes, don't have any that small yet).  No joy.

How am I supposed to tell if the system is running properly if I can't measure any output and a normal carbon resistor (or my light bulbs!) won't capture any energy???  I must be missing something here again! ;D

I think you had mentioned that there is enough TEM gain to at least keep the system running.  Under which conditions will the TEM gain show up? ???

Do you have any ideas on how Steven Marks might be converting the LMD output of his coil into TEM?

Thanks! :)

Eldarion

Hey Eldarion,

Great results you are getting there! If you happen to be free tonight, get on Skype and I'll see if I can get you in touch with Bob directly to answer questions. Let me know :).

God Bless,
Jason O

All, and Bob especially,

I apologize, but further testing has revealed that my pulse generator was unstable during all my tests on this coil (which explains my null results, I hope)!!  There is a ton of jitter at most frequencies that was very hard to see on my lousy analog 'scope.  (I am saving up for a good 4-channel digital model, but do not yet have enough stashed away--those things are EXPENSIVE!) :(

This has happened to me on several occasions, and is due to the extremely high clock speed (300MHz) of the generator core itself.  Basically, the gates are quite sensitive to crosstalk at that frequency, so I will need to reduce the clock frequency, and thereby, the phase resolution.  At 300MHz, the phase resolution would have been 3.3ns, but I will probably have to reduce that resolution to about 5ns (a clock speed of 200MHz).  This only matters for high frequencies, however, and is really overkill at the lower, 200KHz max. frequencies in use here.

I will see what happens when I correct the timing, and if the coil might just fire up at that point. ::)

A couple of questions still apply, I think:
1. If I hook up a standard carbon-film resistor to the output, and place the scope probes across that, will I be able to see any voltage caused by that resistor as it converts LMD current into heat (and some TEM voltage, perhaps)?

2. Is there enough of a TEM component to the secondary output that I can get this thing to self-run (i.e. is the pure TEM C.O.P. greater than about 2)?  I know I am ignoring a hefty LMD component here, but we can worry about intercepting and converting / utilizing that later on after the system is self-running.

Thank you!

Eldarion

@ Eldarion

Hello my friend.  I am glad that you found a part of the problem.  I think you should speak with Bob, to answer your questions that you have.

I would suggest several things, not just for you but all of the builders:
1.  The obviouse as you have stated, making the pulse generator more stable.

2.  Spending great care in re verifying the transverse resonant frequency.

3.  Placing the COP (Acronym for "coil of power", my name for the coil. ;) ) inside of a Faraday Cage, with a pickup coil outside.  Then multiplying the transverse resonant frequency by 1.5.  Then using the pickup coil to verify, as you tune to the exact longitudinal resonant frequency.  Dr. Mark spent some 8 hours, just tuning to his coils frequency, so this can be a lengthy and time consuming task, but a must.

4.  Your question about which resonant frequency we are looking for is a good one.  I believe it will be that of the primaries, but Bob, please correct me if I am wrong.

5.  Keep your primaries open ended as Bob says.  Verify the CCW timing of your frequencies.  You mentioned before with your timing that you did not know which frequency is which.  You might want to start and verify 100% that the frequencies are in the right order and correctly firing. 

6.  Your learning process is a good one for the 20 builders reading and learning with you!  So be encouraged, you are doing a great job.  I never thought it would be "plug and play", that would have been too easy!  LOL  Though I hoped.  ;)

7.  Forgetting about the pulsed mode, since you have no cell stack to hook too.  Concentrating solely on the rotational mode.   ;D

Happy and safe experimenting,
Bruce

Try separating the ground of the secondary from the others so that it's output is by pure induction, and no I do not mean "electromagnetic induction".

It may help for all to view these devices as something that pushes the ambiant potential, which pushes back - hard - similar to what Bob has said.

More  on this later.

Hi All,

would be interested in comments and feedback to my idea of exciting balanced transmission lines in quadrature

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2996.msg53229.html#msg53229

Thanks, Earl

All,

My pulse generator is now fixed and experimentation has resumed.  No luck yet; will go ahead and verify primary resonant frequencies (please correct me if I am wrong here and need to resonate the secondary).  I will always keep the following conditions, once again please correct any incorrect ones:
1. Open-ended primaries, drive signal connected to PxA, where x is the coil number
2. Rotational mode only
3. Pulse width 500ns
4. Resonating the primaries
5. 1x-2x-4x frequency drive

I have the following problems (any help / ideas here would be most welcome! ;))
1. Changing the bias voltage still changes absolutely nothing with regards to the output or input waveforms.
2. Engaging the magnetic bias, once again, changes absolutely nothing with regards to the output or input waveforms.
3. In open-ended mode, there is almost no voltage at the output load resistor.

Eldarion

Hey Bob,

I came across this post in my Internet cache:

QuoteHey there Palic

You may wish to try to source some NTE87 transistors. They are in a TO-3 case style, and are a better choice than the TIP3055 used by J L Naudin.

In the mid 90s I built a successful replication of professor Shinichi Seike's G-strain energy absorber device using three of the NTE87 transistors as a set. I also used a set of three transformers. The outputs of these transformers were rectified and filtered, fed to a load, and back to the input as well. While running, it powered the load, and put a charge into the battery. When the battery was disconnected, the unit went into overunity runaway, quickly burning out both the load, and the transistors. I went through several sets of transistors before I eventually shelved the experiment for a later date. It was interesting to note that the heat sinks on the transistors would frost up every time, just prior to the voltage rise wiping out the transistors. It was as if a peltier effect was taking place in the transistors.

Bob

Is there any way you could post a schematic for that circuit?  It sounds very interesting, and if I leave it hooked up to a battery I could study it and use the knowledge gained to get my controller working better...maybe even get the coil online and running properly... :)

Thanks!

Eldarion

EDIT: I have been going over the attached two schematics, and noticed that Seike is simply using a blocking oscillator on each of the three primary coils.  It looks like this would give a free-running self-resonant three-phase oscillator--i.e. as each oscillator fires, it will trigger the next one in line.  Is this what you built?  It is a concept that Steven Mark had confirmed as correct...

Try separating the ground of the secondary from the others so that it's output is by pure induction, and no I do not mean "electromagnetic induction".

It may help for all to view these devices as something that pushes the ambiant potential, which pushes back - harder - similar to what Bob has said.  Kinda goes with some of SM's words too.

Quote from: Grumpy on October 06, 2007, 11:22:49 PM
Try separating the ground of the secondary from the others so that it's output is by pure induction, and no I do not mean "electromagnetic induction".

It may help for all to view these devices as something that pushes the ambiant potential, which pushes back - harder - similar to what Bob has said.  Kinda goes with some of SM's words too.

Grumpy,

I am sorry, but I do not understand.  Right now both the signal generator ground and the secondary coil ground go to Earth ground.  Are you asking me to leave a ground wire floating, and if so, which one?

Also, could you please elaborate on the type of induction (is it electrostatic)?

Thanks!

Eldarion

Hi Eldarion,

here is a simplified, generic version of Seike's self-swinging 3-phase WYE oscillator.
Both primary and secondary are in WYE.

The oscillator feedback is at the electrically "cold" end of the primary, in traditional, classical HF radio fashion.

If the gain of the inverting amplifier is high enough, I don't see any reason to use two for each oscillator WYE leg.

See also my recent post at
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3403.msg52902.html#msg52902
for a self-swinging 4-phase quadrature oscillator.  This type of oscillator does not need any secondary coils for feedback.

Regards, Earl

@ All

I just want to make a correction, when everyone is discussing their experiment in the future.

The magnetic bias is the only "bias" Bob refers to.

The secondary is referenced as the High Voltage (160 volts) DC Potential.  Not the HV Bias.  I know this because Bob corrected my calling it a HV bias, some time ago.

I also believe that one end of the DC potential is ungrounded and "floating".  This is what Earl mentioned some time ago when we were working on the diagram. Again, Bob, please correct me if this is not correct.

So the ground would be from the ground on the controller to load and positive from the one wire on the secondary.

Some quick thoughts,  ;D
Bruce

Quote from: eldarion on October 07, 2007, 01:12:05 AM

Quote from: Grumpy on October 06, 2007, 11:22:49 PM
Try separating the ground of the secondary from the others so that it's output is by pure induction, and no I do not mean "electromagnetic induction".

It may help for all to view these devices as something that pushes the ambiant potential, which pushes back - harder - similar to what Bob has said.  Kinda goes with some of SM's words too.

Grumpy,

I am sorry, but I do not understand.  Right now both the signal generator ground and the secondary coil ground go to Earth ground.  Are you asking me to leave a ground wire floating, and if so, which one?

Also, could you please elaborate on the type of induction (is it electrostatic)?

Thanks!

Eldarion

Yes, like Bruce just said, leave the ground of the secondary separate from the others but connected to load.

DC bias is a "potential" bias, which by the way will produce a standing longitudinal wave of potential along the conductor - in the direction of the conductor.  This "potential" wave will have a frequency and nodes, but there is no current.  NOw this potential can be fluctuated, and now you have a "changing potential".

I supposed "electrostatic" is as good a term as any, even though "static" implies "not moving", which I don't agree with.   Eric Dollard calls it "dielectric current", some have refered to is as "dielectric induction", others "peristaltic induction". etc.

Electrostatic is related to potential (voltage) and frequency.

You can convert the electrostatic into the electromagnetic and back/forth.

I don't have it all figured out yet, but I feel that I'm getting close.  Lot's of failed experiments, but these help our understanding as much or more than the ones that work.

Suppose you pushed a huge standing wave of potential, or in some way cause it to "change"? 

After all, we are all standing in one...

Quote from: btentzer on October 07, 2007, 09:50:43 AM
@ All

I just want to make a correction, when everyone is discussing their experiment in the future.

The magnetic bias is the only "bias" Bob refers to.

The secondary is referenced as the High Voltage (160 volts) DC Potential.  Not the HV Bias.  I know this because Bob corrected my calling it a HV bias, some time ago.

Thanks for the precision.  We should all be using the same terminology.

Quote from: btentzer on October 07, 2007, 09:50:43 AM
I also believe that one end of the DC potential is ungrounded and "floating".  This is what Earl mentioned some time ago when we were working on the diagram. Again, Bob, please correct me if this is not correct.

Mark's opinion is that the HV DC potential should be connected galvanically to the output in order to supply electrons.  He says the HV DC potential ground can be floating, but says in reality it is grounded, albeit through an ***extremely high*** resistance.  I jokingly call this a ground to Mr. Everest.

The consequence is that one must think about proper safety precautions.  This is why I have suggested using a series current-limiting resistor such that should one come into contact with the HV DC potential the current would be limited to say 1mA, which is way below heart filibration or muscle contraction.

Regards, Earl

Quote from: Grumpy on October 07, 2007, 10:46:16 AM
[snip]

DC bias is a "potential" bias, which by the way will produce a standing longitudinal wave of potential along the conductor - in the direction of the conductor.  This "potential" wave will have a frequency and nodes, but there is no current.  NOw this potential can be fluctuated, and now you have a "changing potential".

I supposed "electrostatic" is as good a term as any, even though "static" implies "not moving", which I don't agree with.   Eric Dollard calls it "dielectric current", some have refered to is as "dielectric induction", others "peristaltic induction". etc.

I call "changing potential" or changing electrostatic field simply electrodynamic.

Quote from: Grumpy on October 07, 2007, 10:46:16 AM

Electrostatic is related to potential (voltage) and frequency.
[snip]

I would be more precise and say
Electrostatic is related to potential (voltage) and frequency.
and
electrodynamic is related to potential (voltage) and frequency.

If one wants to split hairs; if the electrodynamic potential never crosses zero although it changes thousands of volts, then it is still DC and therefore has no frequency, even if it looks like an offset sine wave.  It would have to be described as a DC electrodynamic signal with a [superimposed] frequency component of xxxxx Hertz.

Gumpy, I would appreciate it if your peristaltic eye could give a glance at my idea
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2996.msg53229.html#msg53229
and drawing
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2996.0;attach=13362
and let me know what you think?
My hesitation was that if one side of the transmission line was positive and the other side negative, they would tend to cancel out.  My present thinking is that one could imagine a 2-wire open transmission line that is rotated in a circle to be a long rubber balloon with a hole in the end.
The skin of the balloon is the aether tension.  One balloon end is attached to a plate with a photo camera type of shutter.  Now when the shutter is instantaneously opened to a high potential compressed air cylinder, a pulse of air goes blasting into the balloon which immediately cause the skin to greatly expand.  This "pneumatic potential" shock travels longitudinally down the long balloon, steadily increasing its diameter.  The higher the potential, the bigger the diameter of the balloon.  When the balloon becomes fully expanded at the end, the shutter is instantaneously closed and after the air leaves the balloon it returns to its original diameter.  This crazy example shows what happens if the shutter opens too slowly:  a fizzle.  E.g. the faster the rise time the better.  Therefore I am tending to think there is no plus and minus to cancel out, there is only an electrostatic potential at one end (static during the pulse width), which turns into an electrodynamic potential traveling down the transmission line during this time.

Since in theory balloon inflation has no delay, when the first balloon end becomes fully expanded the second balloon receives its shutter opening and immediately expands in perfect timing with the arrival of the first balloon's expansion.  One can see here that the distance from the central electronics to the toroid, while small, may not be negligible if the pulse width is too narrow for the toroid diameter / winding length.  One can also easily visualize a rotating "boa stomach" as the electrodynamic potential travels down the snake in a circle.  Further discussions in Earl's corner, don't want to distract from the main thread.

Regards, Earl

Quote from: Earl on October 07, 2007, 02:58:49 PM

Quote from: btentzer on October 07, 2007, 09:50:43 AM
@ All

I just want to make a correction, when everyone is discussing their experiment in the future.

The magnetic bias is the only "bias" Bob refers to.

The secondary is referenced as the High Voltage (160 volts) DC Potential.  Not the HV Bias.  I know this because Bob corrected my calling it a HV bias, some time ago.

Thanks for the precision.  We should all be using the same terminology.

Quote from: btentzer on October 07, 2007, 09:50:43 AM
I also believe that one end of the DC potential is ungrounded and "floating".  This is what Earl mentioned some time ago when we were working on the diagram. Again, Bob, please correct me if this is not correct.

Mark's opinion is that the HV DC potential should be connected galvanically to the output in order to supply electrons.  He says the HV DC potential ground can be floating, but says in reality it is grounded, albeit through an ***extremely high*** resistance.  I jokingly call this a ground to Mr. Everest.

The consequence is that one must think about proper safety precautions.  This is why I have suggested using a series current-limiting resistor such that should one come into contact with the HV DC potential the current would be limited to say 1mA, which is way below heart filibration or muscle contraction.

Regards, Earl

Earl, Grumpy,

Thanks for the explanation, I get it now (finally!) :D  (Also helped to look at Bob's diagram in D9.pdf)

That is yet another reason why my system is not working--the HV potential gound is hard-wired to the signal generator ground as it has to be in my controller design.  I am now working on a way to temporarily provide an isolated HV potential to the secondary winding, which will most probably involve a battery, an inverter (which has a transformer, which will provide the ground isolation), and a bridge rectifier, just like Bob has in D9.pdf.

Will let everyone know how this turns out...

Eldarion

Hi Bruce,

QuoteThe magnetic bias is the only "bias" Bob refers to.

This makes perfect sense.

The iron powder toroidal core tests that Dr Mark Snoswell did also used a magnetic bias.
Without the magnetic bias the setup did not produce a significant resonance:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2877.msg49360.html#msg49360

In this post Mark mentions passing 4 amp DC through a coil of 28 turns and I suspect this was the saturation level for this coil as the resonance applitude stop increasing past this current level.
I suppose he could have used about 100 turns at 1 amp to get the same effect - same amp turns - same saturation level.
Bearing in mind that Mark's pulse coil was 5 turns CW then 5 turns CCW so the coil was none inductive.

Regards
Rob

Too much writing for me to keep up with today, so I'll just get to the point.

When I say "electrostatic" I mean like in the phenomenon of "electrostatic induction" like Tesla used, and he found that the electrostatic inductive effect was (i.e. the amount of current induced) determined by the frequency and the potential - only.  This form of induction was a hot issue back in the late 1800's - fascinating research back then that is scarcly heard of now.

A DC "potential" does not provide "electrons" as there is no current and no drift.  A DC "bias" would provide electrons but a DC "potential" provides a "scalar electrostatic potential" (i.e. a tension or pressure in the ether).  So when you apply a DC potential to the second you are increasing the pressure around/along it.

Might help to look up the history of "displacement current" - how Maxwell came up with it and how it was never detected in his lifetime. 

Bob's choice of wire insulation may be important after all.

All,

I separated the grounds of the signal generator and the HV supply as instructed.  This time, no overunity, but my odd pulsing waveform is back and stable.

What I did was I tied the ground of the signal generator and the 12V inverter input ground together, and left them floating.  This unfortunately required me to unplug the CRT monitor, as there is an Earth ground connection inside the monitor that was connecting the FPGA ground to Earth ground.  Hopefully an LCD monitor will not have this connection...

One end of the HV DC potiential (160V) was connected to Earth ground (I chose to ground the "+" end first, but switching which lead was grounded made no difference).  The other end was connected to the secondary winding.  The other end of the secondary winding was connected to a 0.0047uF DC blocking capacitor, and then to a 470-ohm load resistor, then Earth ground  The scope ground was connected to Earth ground, and the other end of the probe went to the nongrounded end of the resistor.

Disconnecting either lead of the HV bias caused the pulsing to stop immediately.  Disconnecting the power to the inverter caused the pulsing to dimish as the HV potential diminished.  Plugging the CRT monitor into the FPGA (thereby connecting both grounds to Earth ground again) caused the pulsing to vanish immediately.

I have attached two small videos of the effect, one at an expanded timebase and one at a smaller timebase.

The settings were:
1x-2x-4x frequency, 50KHz 1x frequency, 0?-121.0?-242.0? phasing, 160V DC HV potential, 499ns pulse width.
Scope was set to 5V / vertical division, 1us / horizontal division in the last video.
All of the non-driven primary coil ends were connected to +13.8V, as open-ended drive did absolutely nothing.
Power draw was about 4.14 watts for everything, including the inverter.

So, my question is, does this pulsing mean that something is trying to work, and if so, how do I force it the rest of the way into full overunity mode? ;D

Eldarion

Bob is the expert, but the educated guess says:

Adjust freq. to try to find a sweet spot.

Decrease pulse width.

Quote from: Grumpy on October 07, 2007, 07:40:12 PM
Bob is the expert, but the educated guess says:

Adjust freq. to try to find a sweet spot.

Decrease pulse width.

Hi Grumpy,

I have already tried that--there was some variation with frequency, but it never came anywhere close to overunity operation.

The pulsing does seem very dependent on the blocking capacitor--substituting a lower impedance capacitor greatly diminished it.

Eldarion

The term HV potential is accurate, while the term HV bias only applies if that HV potential is also providing the HV bias to a hydroxy gas cell stack as the water entraining potential.

Eldarion, you have not mentioned what if anything you are reading as outputs from your other longitudinal windings.

Applied pulse width may be set for 500 ns, but what is the actual pulse width at the primary? Have you checked this to see? You may have to increase pulse width or decrease pulse width based on the response time of your drive electronics.

Bob

Quote from: Bob Boyce on October 07, 2007, 09:03:34 PMEldarion, you have not mentioned what if anything you are reading as outputs from your other longitudinal windings.

Applied pulse width may be set for 500 ns, but what is the actual pulse width at the primary? Have you checked this to see? You may have to increase pulse width or decrease pulse width based on the response time of your drive electronics.

Bob

Hi Bob,

The pulse width is 550ns at the primary (550ns of actual "full on" where the voltage is constant), but there is about 1us rise and fall time.

I am reading a small signal at the longitudinal outputs, it looks like a smaller version of the secondary output.

Do you still have the information on the G-strain energy absorber?  I would like to study it if you don't mind--it might help me learn a bit more about this technology, seeing it from a different angle.

Thanks!

Eldarion

Bob,

I have one other question for you:
I am seeing a lot of ringing on the primary coils directly after each pulse.  Is this desireable, or should I be attempting to suppress it?

Right now, I am just letting it ring...
I have corrected the ringing issue, and power input has dropped.  Now, there is very little difference between open-ended drive and closed drive.  However, there is now only a tiny output signal on the secondary for any frequency between 1KHz and 200KHz.  (I didn't test beyond 200KHz.)  I seem to be getting good drive into the primary coils for the power levels involved, so I think any impedance mismatching is minimal.  Also, the rise/fall times are now in the nanosecond range.

And this is probably related.  I wonder if this could be the problem?

QuoteIf you do not see the effects, then your pulses may not be of sharp enough rise/fall times, or there may be too much of an impedance mismatch between the drive and the transformer.

Thanks!

Eldarion

EDIT: So much fun to talk to myself here! ;D  At least this might help other experimenters going down the same path...
Bob did mention that unipolar DC pulses were important.  With the current MOSFET-based drive setup (the same type of setup that is used on the hydroxy system, i.e. MOSFETs used as pulldown "switches"), the impedance from the pulse generator is swinging wildly from about zero to almost infinity as the pulses are generated.  When the line is released, and the impedance is therefore nearly infinite, the primary coil will ring.  I do believe this is very bad, so I will see if I can eliminate it. 

If I am wrong in my thinking here, please say something!  It would seem that the hydroxy system is vastly different than the pure electrical version, despite similarities in coil construction.

Also something to think about, the pulse width is 500ns as you know.  That corresponds to a frequency of 1MHz, which causes the impedance of the primary to be quite high.  The impedance mismatch may be bad enough to require some sort of capacitive matching, but I am not certain at this point.

EDIT2: Hmm...maybe the signal generator and output circuit / HV potential grounds do NOT have to be separated, as I had originally thought:

QuoteOh, all applied potentials are in reference to earth ground.

(Here Bob was referring to the HV potential and the pulse generator)

FINAL EDIT: Well, as you can see, I tried the above and still nothing.  So, I know the pulse generator is now operating properly, but something else is still wrong!

Eldarion,

There are some things to keep in mind when wiring a FET switch.

1)  Regardles of the switching frequency, the physical layout must be as if you were building an amplifier for 1 GHz.
Think of all FET switching circuits as if they were a GHz linear amplifier that is being over-drriven at xxx kHz.

2) The consequence of building a GHz amplifier is that all lead lengths must be EXTREMELY short.  Every mm, every tenth of a mm is important.  All of the current loops shown in the attached drawing must be very, very, VERY short.  Do everything you can to keep the total loop lengths short, shorter, and still even more shorter.  NO effort is too much to reduce lead lengths to close to zero.

3)  The center of the universe is the source pad on the die.  Everything turns around this.  Unfortunately, the source pad is not available.  We must live with the inductance of the bonding wire to the lead.  So we make the center of the universe as close to the package as possible.  Each and every nH works against you, so keep the series nH's as low as possible.

It is not the ground that is important, it is the FET source.  Everything that needs to be grounded goes directly to here; short lead lengths to the source, as close to the package as possible.

In one consultation, it was necessary for the client to mount the SMD FET driver on the opposite side of the PCB as the FET so that its ground and the FET source had very small connection distance.

4)  All by-passing consists of 2, better 3 or more ceramic capacitors.  Use SMD if at all possilbe.  Different values.  1nF, 10nF, and or 100nF, in parallel with a SMD tantal is nice to use.  Only the caps supply the current to charge gate and coil primary, the power supply doesn't supply any current at all for circuit operation (if it does, you have problems).  All the power supply does is recharge the caps.

5)  To discharge the gate quickly, the driver IC ground must be connected directly to the FET source, keep this length as close to zero as possible.

Eldarion, the ringing should be small, are you using 3 different ceramic caps in parallel and using current loop lengths close to zero and star grounding to the source, as show in the attached schematic?

Regards, Earl

Hi Earl,

Thanks for the tips!  The ringing I was talking about was in the coil itself, when the FET opens.  I was able to damp that out, and now the waveform is a series of spikes as it is supposed to be.

All,

I have just realized something with regards to my DC potential supply, and thought I would post it here so that others do not make the same mistake.  See attached diagram of my output stage; this might explain my poor COP.  The impedance of the HF short circuit is extremely low in comparison to the impedance of the load and DC blocking capacitor, so most of the secondary output power is being shunted away into the HV bias supply and ground.

Eldarion

Potential

Hi Grumpy,

Tried that with no success. :(

Also, every time I try to place a resistor in series with the HV DC lead (my "solution" to the issue which doesn't work), the resistor ends up getting hot and the load power drops.  I will have to think about this one some more...

Eldarion

elaborate on "no success".

There is no current flowing from the "potential" connection to heat a resistor.  (?)

Eldarion,

Are both sides of the 120 VAC floating?  Are they coming from the secondary of an isolation transformer?
If coming from a wall socket, I can imagine problems.

As I understand it, the HV DC has no current, so any series safety resistor should stay cold.

Earl

Quote from: Earl on October 11, 2007, 06:50:15 PM
Eldarion,

Are both sides of the 120 VAC floating?  Are they coming from the secondary of an isolation transformer?
If coming from a wall socket, I can imagine problems.

As I understand it, the HV DC has no current, so any series safety resistor should stay cold.

Earl

Hi Earl, Grumpy,

I decided to run a test by removing the filter capacitor completely, as shown in the attached diagram.  I also connected the negative wire of the HV supply to the secondary coil; I did this because the negative wire should have more free electrons than the positive wire.  Removing the capacitor should remove the HF short to ground, and the system shouldn't care about the pulsed DC because the 0.68uF blocking capacitor will charge and then the voltage will stabilize.

I am finally seeing the effects of the HV potential in this configuration!  Upon startup, the waveform across the load resistor starts with a smallish voltage, and as the 0.68uF capactitor charges the waveform grows.  Engaging the HV bias supply causes the waveform to grow even more, and then even out, all with no noticeable increase in primary current during this entire period.

The source of 120V AC that I am using is an isolated 70W inverter running off of a separate battery.  The only connections between the inverter and the pulse generation circuit are through the two 120V AC connections in the diagram.  Once the inverter has been running for about 2 seconds, it can be disconnected, as the 0.68uF capacitor will maintain the HV potential.  Very strongly, too!  (Nice bright white arc upon shorting the terminals...I wonder if there is more than 160V DC there?)

I have not yet integrated the output voltage to find output power, or even tried a light bulb yet.  My gut feeling is that it is not yet overunity, based on the 'scope, but at least I am finally seeing the HV potential do something on the electrical side of the circuit!!!

BTW, I tried a low-pass filter on the HV DC circuit, with no effect.  It is possible that capacitors act like shorts to longitudinal energy, and therefore the low-pass filter may not have helped, as it would only remove the HF short.  The only thing that helped was removing the filter capacitor, but as you can see, it is not really needed.

Oh, one other thing.  Thanks for all your help and suggestions!  I usually try everything suggested (if my circuitry will handle it without major modifications), and if it doesn't work then I just move on to the next idea, be it yours or mine! :)

More tuning and test results to come...

Eldarion

@all

I don't know if you guys realize how frustrating it is for me to try to read threads here when my browser locks up every time I try to load a page here in any thread that has a lot of image file data to load. It doesn't seem to matter if it is just a few large images, or a lot of small ones. Last night I tried to open the Eldarion thread at least 2 dozen times, and every time it locked up my browser. One time, it at least displayed the messages before it froze, so I was finally able to read the newer posts there.

@Eldarion

I don't know how you concluded that the pulse width of the PWM3 series is 11000 ns, although it is adjustable up to that, and more. I put some scope shots up of a PWM3F on the hydroxy group photos section, and the pulse widths were shown to be under 5000 ns at the outputs.

The energy application of the toroid is similar to the hydroxy application, but it is not exactly the same. Your resistor and scope are not going to behave the same as a hydroxy gas cell stack. In a hydroxy gas application, the energy flows from the secondary and through the cell stack to the ground reference. But whatever your load, a choke (or possibly a high value resistor, have not tried that) is required between the secondary and the HV DC power supply. Having the capacitor in the power supply is ok, IF you HF isolate that supply. With the connections as you are showing, the majority of the flow of energy is going to take the path to ground reference, through your power supply! Note here that ground reference means any mass that has a potential that is or can be referenced to earth ground, so it does not have to be grounded directly in order to soak up power.

I have to take wifey to a dr appt so I have to leave now. i hope this has helped.

Bob

Quote from: Bob Boyce on October 12, 2007, 10:15:29 AM
@all

I don't know if you guys realize how frustrating it is for me to try to read threads here when my browser locks up every time I try to load a page here in any thread that has a lot of image file data to load. It doesn't seem to matter if it is just a few large images, or a lot of small ones. Last night I tried to open the Eldarion thread at least 2 dozen times, and every time it locked up my browser. One time, it at least displayed the messages before it froze, so I was finally able to read the newer posts there.

@Eldarion

I don't know how you concluded that the pulse width of the PWM3 series is 11000 ns, although it is adjustable up to that, and more. I put some scope shots up of a PWM3F on the hydroxy group photos section, and the pulse widths were shown to be under 5000 ns at the outputs.

The energy application of the toroid is similar to the hydroxy application, but it is not exactly the same. Your resistor and scope are not going to behave the same as a hydroxy gas cell stack. In a hydroxy gas application, the energy flows from the secondary and through the cell stack to the ground reference. But whatever your load, a choke (or possibly a high value resistor, have not tried that) is required between the secondary and the HV DC power supply. Having the capacitor in the power supply is ok, IF you HF isolate that supply. With the connections as you are showing, the majority of the flow of energy is going to take the path to ground reference, through your power supply! Note here that ground reference means any mass that has a potential that is or can be referenced to earth ground, so it does not have to be grounded directly in order to soak up power.

I have to take wifey to a dr appt so I have to leave now. i hope this has helped.

Bob

Hi Bob,

Thanks for the information!  I will pick up a high value choke and try isolating the supply again.

Have you tried the FireFox browser (http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/)?  It is about 6 megabytes to download (free, of course ;)), and it is much more stable than Internet Explorer.

Regarding the PWM3E pulse width, I had calculated that via the formula 1.1*R*C, which should be valid for the 556 monstable pulse shaper.   With an R of 1k (the minimum) and a C of 0.01uF, I get 11us (11000ns).  It is possible that the optocoupler might be cutting that value in half due to rise/fall time, as I could not find a datasheet for that chip.

Still, 5000ns makes more sense to me than 500ns!

Thanks,

Eldarion

Quote from: eldarion on October 12, 2007, 11:18:27 AM
Hi Bob,

Thanks for the information!  I will pick up a high value choke and try isolating the supply again.

Have you tried the FireFox browser (http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/)?  It is about 6 megabytes to download (free, of course ;)), and it is much more stable than Internet Explorer.

Regarding the PWM3E pulse width, I had calculated that via the formula 1.1*R*C, which should be valid for the 556 monstable pulse shaper.   With an R of 1k (the minimum) and a C of 0.01uF, I get 11us (11000ns).  It is possible that the optocoupler might be cutting that value in half due to rise/fall time, as I could not find a datasheet for that chip.

Still, 5000ns makes more sense to me than 500ns!

Thanks,

Eldarion

It must be related to my dialup connection speed at home. Right now I am on a broadband WiFi connection and everything loads perfectly! Yes, tried FireFox at a neighbors and hated every minute of it. It was no faster than IE on dialup, and I didn't care for the interface.

Now I understand where you got the 11000 ns figure. I use that digital optocoupler as a DSP  waveform shaper / filter to clean up the horrible 555 outputs. I can adjust those outputs so narrow that the outputs FETs don't even have time to turn on ;-)

I use the secondary of a big heavy battery charger transformer as a choke in series with the 160 VDC line. All caps are on the power supply side of the choke, none on the toroidal side (except for the DC blocking cap of course).

You do know you are not limited to the 42.8 Khz primary, 21.4 Khz secondary, and 10.7 Khz tertiary frequencies don't you? More power is available at higgher frequency. I just used those because the primary 42.8 Khz is in the region where water responds to the LEM. Please remember that the PWM3 hydroxy core parameters are not going to be exactly the same as the energy core parameters.

Bob

Might be worth looking into these. They may be fast enough to use for energy conversion.

http://www.fairchildsemi.com/pf/RH/RHRD660S.html

Bob

Quote from: Bob Boyce on November 03, 2007, 01:16:44 PM
Might be worth looking into these. They may be fast enough to use for energy conversion.

http://www.fairchildsemi.com/pf/RH/RHRD660S.html

Bob

They look very good -- the best I can find outside expensive SiC Shottky diodes (http://www.cree.com/products/power_docs2.asp).

I have added them to the Parts, Materials and data page here http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3544.new.html#new

Mark.

Quote from: MarkSnoswell on November 03, 2007, 08:12:40 PM
They look very good -- the best I can find outside expensive SiC Shottky diodes (http://www.cree.com/products/power_docs2.asp).

I have added them to the Parts, Materials and data page here http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3544.new.html#new

Mark.

I ordered some of those as samples from Cree, and also bought some of the RHRD660S with my latest parts order.

I sent some germanium devices to Rich for him to test in power conversion and verify my findings. He tested a low powered gremanium transistor that he already had first, and the results were as expected. Used as a rectifier diode, the germanium transistor converted enough of the LEM to TEM, that it was readable as DC on a regular analog meter. He said with that particular transistor, it was the base/emitter junction that worked best..Conversion efficiency will depend greatly on the doping of the actual devices used, so this is going to take a lot of testing to nail down which germanium devices work best, and which junctions (base/emitter or base/collector) work better on those devices. Hopefully we can eventually identify which doping in germanium is required for maximum power conversion. I will be testing these hyperfast silicon devices as well.

Bob

I have another fairchild part you may want to look at, as far as high speed diodes go. P/N is: FFPF08S60 . Called stealth II Rectifier.

Rich

I have invested in several MBR1090 SiC 90V Schottky diodes, which I will be trying on the secondary as soon as my system is operational.

Obviously I will be careful to load the secondary so as not to exceed the voltage rating of several of these devices in series...

Eldarion

Quote from: Bob Boyce on November 03, 2007, 01:16:44 PM
Might be worth looking into these. They may be fast enough to use for energy conversion.

http://www.fairchildsemi.com/pf/RH/RHRD660S.html

Bob

Edit - @Anyone,

Please elaborate on the ultra fast diodes that may be used in the Secondary configuration. Edit - Thx Earl.  I see now it is a matter of being able to switch fast enough and being high voltage tolerent for isolating HV PS.  Just hooked up 22M resistance and will report back soon on how this works.  I'll try lamp on other side of Secondary too to maybe indicate if energy is still going into HVPS path or not.

@Bob,

I read about use of Germanium devices operating as LMD detector (or it it LEM). I wish to try this for avananche detection alternative to watching just Pancake DC.  Is one of these evalanch detection means preferable over the other?I am very glad to see RichSAS's input in Eld's thread showing Cap' isolated Battery Bank HV PS.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2872.msg58519.html#msg58519

(Thank you Rich.)  It seems batteries also convert LEM to TEM.  Thank you all for fantasitic input and the effort spent sharing this.  It is much appreciated. 

Ward

Quote from: eldarion on November 12, 2007, 09:08:32 AM
I have invested in several MBR1090 SiC 90V Schottky diodes, which I will be trying on the secondary as soon as my system is operational.

Obviously I will be careful to load the secondary so as not to exceed the voltage rating of several of these devices in series...
Eldarion

Be careful about series-connected diodes; there is no guarantee that reverse leakage currents will be equal. It is very prudent to put an equalizing resistor across each diode, if using more than one.  100k might be a good value to think about; calculate power disapation if using a chip resistor.

At 50/60 Hz, radio hams use 100k and .001 or .01 uF ceramics in parallel across each series diode in their HV supplies, but at high freqs, the caps would have to be greatly reduced in value or eliminated.

Earl

@Bob

It's rather quiet in here. How is your build going? ... it would be great to get more data and photographs of your work for everyone to follow.

mark.

Sorry, wifey is in the hospital in ICU. She's been having so much health issues lately that I have been unable to spend any time in the shop.

Bob

Thank you Bob, we understand, and you have our thoughts, prayers and best wishes to your wife. 

Family first, always.  My Wife's Father of 84 yo. was laid to rest the day before Thanksgiving, I so understand the stress, hang in there.

If you have need of anything, please let us know.

Best wishes always,
Bruce

@Bob

Thanks for the quick response -- sows your still there watching this.

Yes -- tend to your family first. Hope things work out Ok in the end.

cheers

mark.

@All

Consider this.  Whether religious or not, most believe in the power of the mind, and not just over your own material body.  Take a few moments every day to think about Bob and his wife getting better, suddenly and completely.  Some call it prayer, I do not (and no I am not one of those 'Cruisers').  Anyway it works and has been proven to work.  Group focus on single outcomes has been proven to work.  Google 'Hado - the consciousness of water' if you do not believe.  Praise the good always, never curse the bad because the bad just gets worse.  Praise the bad for becomeing better instead!  Focus on the desired outcome...  Bob's wife better and Bob enjoying his time with her healthy and back home.  This is something we can all do for Bob as a group.  Because it really works.  Do it often each day until you hear the good news.  Every day, and give thanks for what you envision/ask for.

Ward

Thank you all. Thank goodness they have broadband Wifi here at the hospital so I can check in on the groups. Now would be the time to download anything big or look at online videos.

Bob

Hello All

My name is harry . I want to say high and offer any assistace I can with your development. I have experience with pic chips,FPGAs and FEts I also write c code and VB . I have a working controller that has 8 drivers for coils. Please contact me if I can help.I also have patents in digital wireless modulation techniques.

Harry

A big Welcome to Harry! 

I believe Harry's experience and ideas will contribute greatly to this endeavor, and have invited him to be a part!   ;D

Harry, we look forward to your experiments to come!

Warm regards,
Bruce

Help  ... There are a number of small electrical items that I want to order that are only delivered to US destinations at a reasonable price.
Is there anyone who would be happy to receive these and mail them on to me? I will cover all costs and you may be interested in sharing some of the purchaces as they are all relevant in some way to this research.

thanks.

mark.

Not sure if there is anything I can do to help Mark. If you email me the particulars I can check into it.

I've been busy trying to get some newer and faster test equipment in my shop. The transition times on my new driver setup is so fast that I cannot even see the transitions on my 150 Mhz Tektronix 2445 or 2445A scopes.

So far I have had a fiew pieces arrive, but most of what I received were DOA or destroyed in shipping. I wish eBay sellers were more honest about the condition of what they sell, and more careful about how they handle and pack delicate test equipment.

One unit, a supposedly working HP 8116A, had the front panel bashed in, and the seller tried to blame the shipper. The box was in nearly mint condition, and they had packed the unit in that bagged liquid foam that forms to fit the space. The foam had formed to fit the bashed in front panel, which proved quite well they had shipped the unit like that! They kept denying it until I sent them pictures of the unit, the foam impression, and the perfect box. Then they blamed their shipping dept for dropping it, and said that since they had sold as-is, I was out of luck. After paying a premium for a supposedly working unit, I was not about to settle for that! Only after I threatened them with negative feedback and reporting to eBay for item not as described, that they offered return for full refund, or keep and get a partial refund of $100. Shipping was high, which I would have had to pay again to return, so I accepted the partial refund. Fixed the front panel, only to find a whole lot of other problems that apparently had existed with the electronics prior to the unit being dropped. So that one is on a back burner for now

Another HP8116A unit was advertised as powering up but having an error code that was related to a dead memory battery. That unit arrived DOA, and upon opening I found that someone had apparently tried to charge the non-rechargable lithium memory battery and it exploded, spraying electrolyte all over the logic board, which was then covered by corrosion which even extended under the chips. That unit is still DOA and on a back burner for parts or repair.

Then a Wavetek 859 Pulse generator arrived with the right side of the front panel broken. Again, the box was in good condition, so it must have been dropped on the front right corner prior to shipping. The whole front frame was shifted to the left by 1/4", bending the sheet metal of the housing. I repaired it as best as I could and it works now if I bypass the broken front panel power switch. I have a parts unit on the way to fix this one better.

Managed to get an HP 8111A that was advertised as DOA, and I repaired it by replacing all of the dried out power supply capacitors. Analog tuning, but at least it works!

I also managed to get an advertised working HP 3225A, which arrived in good condition and seems to work just fine. Finally, after all that trouble, something arrived that actually was working as advertised!

A Tektronix HFS9003 showed up yesterday. It arrived in excellent condition, being packed in that formed foam. It also worked as advertised! This HFS9003 came with a pair of 4 channel cards installed, each channel with both non-inverted and inverted outputs. The primary pulse setting is split amongst all channels, but each channel is selectable for 1 t, 1/2 t, 1/4 t, or 1/8 t, where t is the timing interval. I am still waiting for a gross of SMA to BNC adapters to arrive from Hong Kong so I can connect to it.

I just bid and paid for an HP 54110D color digitizing scope that needs repair;
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=320187756612

I have 2 more Wavetek 859 pulse generators and a DOA HP 54100A 1 Ghz scope on the way as well. The Wavetek 859s were bought as a set, one working, and one not - for parts. The HP 54100A  they said does not power up. I will attempt to repair it, but if not, I can use it for parts to fix that HP 54110D that has a bad attenuator. It also has some pods in it that can be used for the HP 54110D.

Bob

Bob,
   What a string of bad luck with eBay ... I have not had a problem with eBay although I have not been purchacing so much used equipment.

Still -- it sounds like you will have a very good set of equipment once you get it working.

I have been working on some basic scalar tests -- a Meyel transmitter/reciever replication at present. I should have results to report on shortly.

Mark.

Here are two videos that everyone should look at... and get copies of. Both of these videos probably should not be on the web and may dissapear very soon.

Aurelians Horta documentary
http://www.quoadhoc.com/UnlimitedCleanEnergyProject/

I have personally met Aureliano and some of his team last year in Mexcio. The video is true and their developments are very advanced now. The following comments are mine based on my meeting with Aureliano...
Aureliano got the inspiration for his device while watching people stream of a subway train. The idea was so simple that his own reaction was that it couldnt work... but it did. He says that Tesla was right and that his device is based on principals Tesla demonstrated. Aureliano emphasises that his device is based on resonance. I also know that the output power rises exponentially with voltage and that pulses are also involved. The devices have a failure mode (if pushed too far) that releases a massive magnetic pulse. They can output DC or AC. One of their problems is that the technology is best tuned to a particular load -- broadening the Q has been a problem that thay have partially overcome. The technology also creates cold current which they strive to convert to normal current to work with regular electrical devices. They have deomnstrated other effects including antigravity.
It has taken a very long time for Aureliano to develope his technology... roughly every 5 years he has managed to increace the output power by 10 fold. When I visited they claimed they were up to about 10KW maximum in some devices. I saw a device that was putting out 100's of watts.





This video is of Timothy, an Amish inventor who Bob has met on a number of occasions. He left the Amish to get an education in California and to develope his free energy ideas. He then returned to his Amish community to use the technology for their benifit. As part of an Amish comunity he risks expulsion for releasing videos like this... perhaps Bob can make more comments. Anyway -- grab the video while it is araound.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2704881358864652255&q=self+running+900+watts&total=2&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0


cheers

mark.

Hi Mark,

Thanks for sharing!  That's actually the first time I've seen this type of technology working... ::)

I couldn't help but notice that this seems to be a mechanical variant of what we are trying to build here...toroid and all!

Eldarion

Hi Mark,

Fascinating video's.  Thank you.

I have found the Spanish website for AURELIANO HORTA ZANABRIA and company here.  http://www.et3m.com/


Merry Christmas,

Bruce

EDIT:
And I have found an article dated today about Aureliano.
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=http://www.am.com.mx/Nota.aspx%3FID%3D176067%26strPlaza%3DLeon%26IDPlaza%3D1&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=4&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3DAURELIANO%2BHORTA%2BZANABRIA%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DG

I have a considerable collection of information on Aureliano and his company that has appeared on the web recently. I didn't put all the references in my post here as it really wasnt relevant.

I believe 100% that Aureliano's technology, the TPU and Bob Boyces devices all work on exatly the same process. I hope to make more comments soon.

cheers

mark.

I'm not sure if anyone here is looking for this type of gear, but I have just listed a Hewlett Packard Pulse/Function Generator on eBay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220185924828

The pictures show it dialed in for 42.8 Khz at 1.00 microsecond pulse width and 13.8 VDC output amplitude, as indicated in the scope shot.

Bob

@all

I have been sidetracked trying to get some decent test equipment on my bench. As many know, I have had one heck of a time with getting JUNK delivered to me from those darned surplus equipment sellers on eBay. The suggestions of leaving bad feedback or researching sellers do not really help when it is usually not me doing the bidding or buying. Much of this stuff was being bought for me by a friend that has broadband. I do not stand much of a chance of winning bidding wars when I am on dialup. Bidding is intense because apparently, due to misleading descriptions, the other bidders do not know that they are bidding on potential JUNK. It is really frustrating trying to tell which seller is being truthful in their listings and email correspondence, and which is not. Out of 4 identical Wavetek 859 units, I had enough good parts to make 1 working unit! The main issue with these is corrosion. Corrosion on the chassis, mainboards, plug-in cards, and front panel boards. Dead or partially dead front panel keypads with hidden corrosion in areas not accessable for examination or repair due to the keypads being glued in, hence the corrosion is sandwiched between the front panel plastic and the kepad PCB. Almost every time, units bought that were honestly advertised as DOA for parts only, were actually in better condition than units from the surplus dealers that were advertised as "powers up, but untested". Yea right! The 115VAC powered fan comes on when power switch is turned on, but the electronics were trashed in almost every one of those.

Now for the good news ;-)

The HP 54110D scope arrived, and with the use of an attenuator out of a parts unit HP 54100A scope I bought pretty cheap, it is now working perfectly as far as I can tell. I even managed to get the parts scope working somewhat, so will keep for parts.

The Tektronix HFS 9003 Stimulus System seems to be working nicely, and the SMA to BNC adapters from Hong Kong finally showed up. It may take me a while to learn how to operate the beast though.

I managed to repair one of the HP 8116A 50 Mhz Pulse/Function Generator units with parts from the second supposedly working unit that arrived DOA.

I repaired the HP 8111A 20 Mhz Pulse/Function Generator, as advised in my last post, I listed it on eBay because I don't need it now.

And as I mentioned before, I managed to repair one of the Wavetek 859 50 Mhz Programmable Pulse Generator units. I have one more good chassis and board set, if I can locate another front panel with a good keypad. I may sell off the "boat anchor" junk units on eBay. The ones that were bought from the surplus dealers, if anyone is looking for parts units. I will certainly be honest about the condition if I do decide to list them.

As some of you may know, I have been drawn back into the hydroxy research, due to being nominated for a grant that is being managed by the New Energy Congress. I do not know yet if I was one of the winners, but last I had heard, I was in a tie for second or third place. I guess I will find out if I get a check in the mail ;-)

One of the NEC members bought me a Toyota Prius hybrid with no strings attached. I have been spending a lot of time getting familiar with the onboard systems in preperation for conversion. The current plan (pun intended) is to convert this to an electric vehicle, in order to get it legally retitled and registered as an EV. I need to do this so that this Prius becomes EPA exempt under the ZEV rules.

I intend to build a charging system that can keep the batteries charging for long duration driving. Initially, I will be setting up a hydroxy gas fueled genset, as that is a system that I have had very good success with. I do still intend on pursuing the pure energy type toroidal power system, but that is going to have to go on the back burner for now. I can't risk having direct electrical connection to the vehicular battery bank until I am sure that the complex onboard systems are safe from getting fried.

Bob

Wow,  this is the first I hear of this Aureliano Horta guy and the self running motor.   How awesome.   It is definetely related to the Thrapp motor.  I got to duplicate this technology, seems like a focused effort since we see the diagram with the motor and generator connected to the same shaft,  and we see the control circuit functional block.  Now all we have to do is fill in the blanks.  It's like doing system engineering, here at work.  Topdown design approach.

EM

http://www.infopat.com.mx/search/results.php?Campos=TODAS&campo_magic=AURELIANO+HORTA+ZANABRIA&tipo_busqueda=8&alea=56608&purg=1&pal=2&orden=TITULO&resultados_por_pagina=20&lang=eng

Quote from: EMdevices on May 21, 2008, 01:37:11 PM
Wow,  this is the first I hear of this Aureliano Horta guy and the self running motor.   How awesome.   It is definetely related to the Thrapp motor.  I got to duplicate this technology, seems like a focused effort since we see the diagram with the motor and generator connected to the same shaft,  and we see the control circuit functional block.  Now all we have to do is fill in the blanks.  It's like doing system engineering, here at work.  Topdown design approach.

EM

Aureliano's company is ET3 ... this is the Mexican group I have visited twice. The motor is very old - long since (20 years) left behind. All based on the same principals as TPU, Spherics, Energia

Hi Mark,
Why didn?t they publish the motors
some more  ?
Where there still problems ?

The motors work fine. They are just old technology - the went on to much more interesting things.

Quote from: hartiberlin on May 22, 2008, 01:04:44 AM
Hi Mark,
Why didn?t they publish the motors
some more  ?
Where there still problems ?

Harti,

Many years ago, the inventor was threatened with harm to his family unless he kept quiet.
Governments with oil reserves, such as Mexico, do not want the introduction of FE.  In fact, I know of no government that wishes FE to come into general usage.

You do know about the German government hypnotizing students and a professor because of an experiment with water electrolysis, don't you?

Earl

thanks for that link Bruce.

I signed up with INFOPAT and here's the abstract for the first entry.

QuoteLa presente invención se relaciona con un sistema generador o transformador de energía eléctrica que comprende un circuito eléctrico que comprende ocho circuitos: un circuito de senso enlace, un circuito sensor, dos circuitos oscilatorios, dos circuitos amplificadores, un circuito mezclador, y un circuito de senso salida, por medio de los cuales se obtiene una ganancia de energía que es aprovechada por un motor (carga inductiva) logrando de esta manera que el elemento motor consuma hasta un 50 por ciento menos de energía, por lo tanto logrando un ahorro de energía considerable. Además, el sistema generador o transformador de energía eléctrica de la presente se puede acoplar tanto a sistemas de corriente alterna como corriente directa, con las mismas características de operación."

and the translation (with Babelfish)

QuoteThe present invention is related to a generating or transforming system of electrical energy that includes an electrical circuit that includes eight circuits: a circuit of senso connects, a sensorial circuit, two oscillating circuits, two amplifying circuits, a mixer circuit, and a circuit of senso exit, by means of which an energy gain is obtained that is taken advantage of by a motor (inductive load) obtaining this way that the motor element less than consumes until a 50 percent energy, therefore obtaining a saving of considerable energy. In addition, the generating or transforming system of electrical energy of the present can be connected so much to systems of AC voltage like direct current, with the same characteristics of operación."

isn't that interesting..... wow!!     two frequencies and mixers and energy gain, if that's not related to the TPU I don't know what is.

Hi EM,

Great find!  I think that it is very much related.  Are you able to get your hands on the patents?

Perhaps he too is using an electronic pulse delay for amplification effect.  Hmm... it would be interesting if he found a way to do electronically what SM did mechanically.  But it would make all of the sense in the world.

Cheers,

Bruce

Mexican patents are not availble to read. Fred Epps was tracking this down back in January and was goin to buy a copy of the patent -- I must ask him if he ever got a hold of the full patent.

I was not able to get the full patents from the website, so if Mark can get them from Fred that would be super. 

OK -- I am on holidays for another week but I will follow up on this when I get back.