A member said we should design a HHO set up for diesel and I thought I would start a new thread and dedicate it to designing a HHO on demand set up for diesels and not just small trucks but for semi?s and large diesel tractors as well.
In this following video we have a 14 cell unit designed for a 7.3 diesel. It is not running off just the HHO but I thought it would make for a good start video to help get us going.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jlv0_m7834
I have a fleet of diesel wreckers and I will dedicate one for experimenting purposes. I am not sure which one as of right now but I will look them over tomorrow and then decide.
We may be able to utilize something from the following thread that is being discussed at this time.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,5024.0.html
I also have other links I will provide as time goes by. I have to locate them and I will post them as I find them again. If anyone else has and or comes across links to info that can help us, please post them so that we can all check them out.
I do ask that everyone welcome all comments with the up most respect and I ask that no one put another member down for a idea they have to offer. We are all here for the same reason.
We all know that diesel engine start ups require a glow plug unless ether is used. I am under the understanding that HHO is more explosive then ether and therefore would not require a glow plug for start up. It will take some testing to confirm my assumption and that will be easy enough to do.
The big problem I see is figuring out how to make the water explode with out using a plasma spark to split and ignite the water molecules.
I am thinking that the glow plugs will have to be removed and then have spark plugs installed in there places. I maybe able to figure a way to modify the glow plugs to take the place of the spark plugs. That will take some thinking but may be worth the effort.
I just remembered that I have a 8.2 out of a bus that I can put on a engine stand to experiment with. We need to start with designing spark plugs to use for the plasma spark that is needed.
I will take out a glow plug and post pictures of it for all to see so that we can all try to figure out a way to modify them for spark plugs.
If anyone has any suggestions, please post them for all to read.
nightlife
I am not sure that this is the right place for me to post my ideas about diesels
In short I don't think HHO is the way to go .
I am not interested in working on a system to get a little better mileage .........I am looking for 100% water .
The speed and power of a diesel is controled by the injectors .......
With HHO you will have to start from scratch on speed control ...........
WHy reinvent the wheel? .
In my opinion the injectors should be used as close to the way they are normally used as possible .
If the power is to low ..........adding water mist to the intake should raise the power some .
If the mist isn't enough ........or doesn't seem to be involved in the combustion process THEN it is time to add HHO to even out the burn pattern
gary
Quote
Quote from: Tinker on Today at 05:18:40 AM
How would you folks like to rock the world,
Lawn mower motors and old Camaro's are wonderful but if you want to change the world think ''Transportation''
I am talking about the big trucks that move our food and just about everything else we use on a daily basis at four dollars a gallon plus here in the states this has shot the price of food to record levels,
Based on what I have been seeing here the concept and electronics are well on the way to being sorted out.
Rudolf had it right, he created an engine that would run on any thing that contained calories, but he missed H20.
Anyone here willing or able to to take on the conversion of a diesel motor.
I would start with a modified glo plug as a ignitior. The only other issue I see is the injector pump timeing.
But that's what I think.
Be Well
Tinker
Tinker
I have been thinking that a diecel would be ideal ......more compression for more power ........stronger construction for more Ooppss factor
In my opinion it is the perfect motor for the people that want to use a transformer system rather than a modified standard ignition system .
The way I see it ........ a rather large spark gap could be set up inside the cylinder .........maybe 2 copper rings
a smaller ring near the injector ........and a larger ring just above the highest position of the cylinder .
Both rings would be sized to be right at the edge of the injector spray pattern .
The voltage would have to be arrived at by trial and error .
It would have to be high enough to jump the gap when the injector was spraying ...........but low enough to stop when the injector stops .
gary
Hi gary,
QuoteI am not interested in working on a system to get a little better mileage .........I am looking for 100% water .
This thread will be focusing on using 100% water as fuel for diesel engines. I will be referring to water as HHO in my comments. If you all prefer, I could just say water but it?s the HHO in the water that makes this all possible. I do however think that the oxygen is what keeps the temperature down and that is a added plus.
QuoteIn my opinion the injectors should be used as close to the way they are normally used as possible .
I agree and I see no reason at this time why they would need to be altered. The flow may need to be altered depending on the amounts of water that are required.
QuoteIf the mist isn't enough ........or doesn't seem to be involved in the combustion process THEN it is time to add HHO to even out the burn pattern
Now that may be an option if needed and we should keep that in mind.
Thanks for your comments and ideas.
Quote
Quote from: Tinker on Today at 05:18:40 AM
I would start with a modified glo plug as a ignitior. The only other issue I see is the injector pump timeing.
I missed this line the first time I read it .
I was wondering how to get the wires for the spark gap into the cylinder . .......the glow plug hole is the ideal way
We don't need a glow plug .......we have plasma . It won't have full power at first because of rapid condensation .........but it should kick over .........and if it has trouble kicking over when it is cold ............we just jack up the current
Smiley
gary
Gary
Your previous work is to be commended.
I have some contacts that I could use to explore this concept but as most often they will be need to be convinced of profitability as they most often do not subscribe to open sourcing.
Once there is a proff of concept I have no doubt that I can sell this to to the transportation sector as they are hurting and looking for solutions, Atlanta is a hub for freight in the south and are looking for a solution.
To bad I cant help the airlines.
Be
Well
Tinker
One problem I can foresee is that the injectors need to have the water supply stopped at the time off shut down to keep them from filling up the cylinders with water and the plasma sparks have to continue until the water is all gone from the cylinders.
Quote from: nightlife on June 30, 2008, 02:38:51 AM
Hi gary,
This thread will be focusing on using 100% water as fuel for diesel engines. I will be referring to water as HHO in my comments. If you all prefer, I could just say water but it?s the HHO in the water that makes this all possible. I do however think that the oxygen is what keeps the temperature down and that is a added plus.
I agree and I see no reason at this time why they would need to be altered. The flow may need to be altered depending on the amounts of water that are required.
Nightlife
I can deal with how ever you wish to say it .
I do think it would be nice for people new to this forum to rename the topic if that is possable .
maybe " Water as fuel - Diesel " That would pretty much cover all the options that we might get into .
In your first post you said something about the big diesels being important .
I think one kind that you didn't mention is very important . Stationary diesel generators
Wouldn't it be nice to get off the grid ?
gary
Tinker,
QuoteOnce there is a proff of concept I have no doubt that I can sell this to to the transportation sector as they are hurting and looking for solutions, Atlanta is a hub for freight in the south and are looking for a solution.
The concept of profit would be in the conversion kits and or installation provided we can design what is needed and it works as we hope it to.
Someone has to install the conversion and those who do would profit from it.
Gary,
QuoteI do think it would be nice for people new to this forum to rename the topic if that is possible .
maybe " Water as fuel - Diesel " That would pretty much cover all the options that we might get into .
Good idea. I will see if Stefan can do that because it will no longer allow me to do it.
QuoteI think one kind that you didn't mention is very important . Stationary diesel generators
Wouldn't it be nice to get off the grid ?
I agree and I believe it should be kept in mind as well as repeatedly mentioned within our comments so the word gets out provided we can make it work.
The injector pump controls that and it should not be an issue.
That said PROFESSIONAL help would be needed to make the injector pump operated as needed.
Be
Well
Tinker
Quote from: nightlife on June 30, 2008, 03:00:38 AM
Tinker,
The concept of profit would be in the conversion kits and or installation provided we can design what is needed and it works as we hope it to.
Someone has to install the conversion and those who do would profit from it.
I agree for the most part .........
However .........the timing has to be right .
If you try to jump into business to soon ..........before the technology is known by enough people you might end up disappeared .
gary
Quote from: nightlife on June 30, 2008, 03:06:53 AM
provided we can make it work.
Do you have any doubts?
I don't have much money to spend on it at this time .......but I have lots of ideas .
gary
Diesel injectors are not electronic, they are controlled by pressure. It takes a certain pressure to open the injector and the pressure controls the amount sprayed. The more pressure applied = the more fuel that is injected. The pressure is controlled by the throttle. They should be easy to modify if even needed at all. It all just depends on what we find out in our experiments.
I will post pictures of some injector pumps I have tomorrow.
Quote from: nightlife on June 30, 2008, 02:53:53 AM
One problem I can foresee is that the injectors need to have the water supply stopped at the time off shut down to keep them from filling up the cylinders with water and the plasma sparks have to continue until the water is all gone from the cylinders.
One possible solution to this is to just not shut down . ....... except for repairs .
for cars and trucks one of the bigger problems I see if freezing in the winter .
The fuel tank could be insulated .......and if the exhaust goes through it ........ threre might be enough heat from the engine to keep if from freezing . ............but there is still the loose hoses going to the injectors and the fuel line .
Enclosing the entire engine might be a possibility .....but difficult because of space limitations .
The fuel line could be insulated and also have a heat pipe running right next to it ( inside the insulation ) ......... that way the fuel line would not freeze until the engine and fuel tank were close to freezing .
gary
Gary,
QuoteDo you have any doubts?
That I do and it is mainly to do with the fact that water and diesel engines do not mix well. LOL
QuoteI don't have much money to spend on it at this time .......but I have lots of ideas .
I don't believe any money will be needed. I may have to buy a few minor things needed for fabricating but I don't see them costing more then I can afford at this time. I believe I have everything that is needed and if I don?t, I have a friend that should.
Yours and everyone else?s ideas are the most needed things right now so by all means, please submit all the ideas you can think of.
Gary,
QuoteI agree for the most part .........
However .........the timing has to be right .
If you try to jump into business to soon ..........before the technology is known by enough people you might end up disappeared .
I agree and that?s why I think that after we are able to design it, we should dump it all at once all over the world. We can do so by contacting diesel repair shops and trucking company's. Truckers are the best messengers. Tell one trucker and the rest will know within a couple weeks.
I personally could care less if I made a dime. We all would benefit from it.
Quote from: nightlife on June 30, 2008, 03:39:23 AM
Diesel injectors are not electronic, they are controlled by pressure. It takes a certain pressure to open the injector and the pressure controls the amount sprayed. The more pressure applied = the more fuel that is injected. The pressure is controlled by the throttle. They should be easy to modify if even needed at all. It all just depends on what we find out in our experiments.
I will post pictures of some injector pumps I have tomorrow.
I would think that up to a point adding more current will raise the power output .
Also adding more water should raise the power output ....... adding more water may make it possible to add more current .
I am not sure how the injectors are hooked up ..........but if we find we need alot more water than we can get from unmodified injectors it might work to add another " bank " of injectors in the intake ,...........mist should work just as good as anything else ........ as long as we are getting good plasma in the cylinder .
A problem with '" cloning " the injectors might be placing them in the right locations ......... it would not be good to fire the injector into an intake with the valve closed . ( puddles in the intake are a NO NO .)
gary
Quote from: nightlife on June 30, 2008, 04:01:02 AM
Gary,
I agree and that?s why I think that after we are able to design it, we should dump it all at once all over the world. We can do so by contacting diesel repair shops and trucking company's. Truckers are the best messengers. Tell one trucker and the rest will know within a couple weeks.
I personally could care less if I made a dime. We all would benefit from it.
Good plan
:)
ALot of truckers are harder to scare than other people may be .
For some of them it would make their day if the men in black showed up .
gary
Gary,
Quotefor cars and trucks one of the bigger problems I see if freezing in the winter .
Me and my wife was talking about that yesterday. We think that heating elements could be placed in the tanks as well as wrapped around the lines. Most diesel engines are already equipped with block warmers and all engines could be fitted with them if they don?t. They install in the place of a engines freeze plug. The block warmer can be wired in with the others and plugged in at night. They could also be wired in to the battery system to be used when they are on the road.
I have been thinking about adding a mist into intake .
If we just injected water and hit it with elecricity the bang is very quick ....... and all that is left once the injector stops spraying is for the contents of the cylinder to mix .
If there was a heavy load of water already in the air in the cylinder we may get something that behaves similar to a flame front in normal combustion .
If we could do this there would be much less need to change the timing.
gary
Quote from: resonanceman on June 30, 2008, 02:57:56 AM
I think one kind that you didn't mention is very important . Stationary diesel generators
Wouldn't it be nice to get off the grid ?
Good point, and they'd love you in the islands for making a point like this. That's how many smaller islands get the majority of their power - large diesel power stations.
Gary, you maybe on to something and it would take some experimenting to see. I am wondering how the moisture in the air is going to affect things. Dry days opposed to rainy days. There is much to learn.
I am getting excited and I cant wait to get started.
Great thread! This really jogged my memory. I remember reading somewhere (aprox. 6 years ago) on the web, that back in early days of diesel engines, someone was cleaning and/or spraying down a hot engine with water. The guy had to crank the engines flywheel to get some of the water out that accidently got into the intake and the motor suddenly started up and was running!
The things that stand out in my mind from that article was that the engine had to be at operating temperature (hot) and the water had to be a minimum of 75 F. As long as those 2 conditions are met they said that a diesel engine would run just on water alone.
I was going to try the experiment back when I first read about it but I had no access to a diesel. Just recently in my town they sell 18 HP diesel motors for $800 but they're the chinese crap! (no thanks)
If anyones going to try it, I would get the engine running up to operating temp, get a spray bottle, fill it with boiling water and mist it into the intake as you shut the fuel supply off. Careful! Don't want to hydro lock the engine! Damm I sure wish I could find that article!!
A friend of mine said that water might ruin the diesel fuel pump because the actual fuel lubricates the pump. Is this true?
Then maybe make an adapter and mount a regular auto fuel injector to mist water into the engines intake manifold?
Now, with that plasma set up, and the compression of a diesel I would LOVE to see that sucker rev up!!!! I'll keep my eye open for an old diesel car and try some experiments too!
All the best everyone!
Quote from: nightlife on June 30, 2008, 05:01:49 AM
Gary, you maybe on to something and it would take some experimenting to see. I am wondering how the moisture in the air is going to affect things. Dry days opposed to rainy days. There is much to learn.
I am getting excited and I cant wait to get started.
I would say that the humidity should affect this engine about as much as it affects a normal diesel engine
I would also think that it should affect it less than a regular car engine .........more pressure at combustion time ...... more heat from compression .
gary
Quote from: yaz on June 30, 2008, 07:51:36 AM
Great thread! This really jogged my memory. I remember reading somewhere (aprox. 6 years ago) on the web, that back in early days of diesel engines, someone was cleaning and/or spraying down a hot engine with water. The guy had to crank the engines flywheel to get some of the water out that accidently got into the intake and the motor suddenly started up and was running!
The things that stand out in my mind from that article was that the engine had to be at operating temperature (hot) and the water had to be a minimum of 75 F. As long as those 2 conditions are met they said that a diesel engine would run just on water alone.
I was going to try the experiment back when I first read about it but I had no access to a diesel. Just recently in my town they sell 18 HP diesel motors for $800 but they're the chinese crap! (no thanks)
If anyones going to try it, I would get the engine running up to operating temp, get a spray bottle, fill it with boiling water and mist it into the intake as you shut the fuel supply off. Careful! Don't want to hydro lock the engine! Damm I sure wish I could find that article!!
A friend of mine said that water might ruin the diesel fuel pump because the actual fuel lubricates the pump. Is this true?
Then maybe make an adapter and mount a regular auto fuel injector to mist water into the engines intake manifold?
Now, with that plasma set up, and the compression of a diesel I would LOVE to see that sucker rev up!!!! I'll keep my eye open for an old diesel car and try some experiments too!
All the best everyone!
Welcome to the club Yaz
I hope you get that old diesel car and start expermenting .
each person has their own way of doing things .....maybe your way is the way that makes it work .
Anyway ......... with these kinds of experments ...........more is better .
gary
ALL a diesel injector pump is like a swiss watch lubrication will be an issue However replacing the glow plug with the new plasma firestorm plug might be very interesting Chet
OF course a 2 cycle diesel with no injector pump and just a fuel rail [detroit] wouldn't be as risky Chet
This is gonna be a great thread, exactly what I was looking for. If you go the route of just HHO, I think the form of hydrogen produced, parahydrogen, would be better for a diesel, since it is slower burning then the other form? Ironhead on this site is the expert on this, has a thread for it called "highvoltage HHO" I was trying to build my test cell but am held up at the material to hold my plates. I having trouble finding a way to hold the plates close enough together with the acrylic. I dont have a machine shop to groove it, but was going to order 1/16" thick acrylic to use between. I have a vw tdi motor i want to boost with the hho. Also, if you inject the hho after the sensor, isnt it tru the computer will not know it is there, thereby not changing the current fuel rate? (i dont have an O2 sensor).
I would love to see all water, no diesel fuel needed. But is the compression to high for that? (19.5 to 1 in mine) I look forward to the progress!!!
Thanks,
Mark
Quote from: Mark69 on June 30, 2008, 12:49:03 PM
This is gonna be a great thread, exactly what I was looking for. If you go the route of just HHO, I think the form of hydrogen produced, parahydrogen, would be better for a diesel, since it is slower burning then the other form? Ironhead on this site is the expert on this, has a thread for it called "highvoltage HHO" I was trying to build my test cell but am held up at the material to hold my plates. I having trouble finding a way to hold the plates close enough together with the acrylic. I dont have a machine shop to groove it, but was going to order 1/16" thick acrylic to use between. I have a vw tdi motor i want to boost with the hho. Also, if you inject the hho after the sensor, isnt it tru the computer will not know it is there, thereby not changing the current fuel rate? (i dont have an O2 sensor).
I would love to see all water, no diesel fuel needed. But is the compression to high for that? (19.5 to 1 in mine) I look forward to the progress!!!
Thanks,
Mark
Mark
I don't think anyone here is working at powering a diesel with a HHO generator yet .........This is the place to give it a try though .
A way to hold the plates apart that I have seen used is getting plastic wire ties .... they come in quite a few sizes ........one is bound to be close to the right thickness .......
gary
It seams, after reading the following pdf file, that when the water is introduced to plasma, it is creating a "cold" fog explosion. This means there is no heat and therefore would not need to be preheated to get the results.
http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/EBFpSJS-sMYpa8Cek1PzGHH5WYgLGp5EbYiB0zypKT-db8__30ijrUD_Ai48FWCEJ0HNPnXiasFyEo1ipRExiqkMdXwFzKRoHls/Graneau%20experiments.pdf
I've never seen the following report.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSDtCkLxQd (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSDtCkLxQd)
Was this generally known her that Stanley Meyer just used a spark plug to convert a car to run on water. This is news to me seeing people are investigating producing hydrogen on demand using the water fuel cell. Could it just be the same effect that is starting to buzz around here?
Quote from: ramset on June 30, 2008, 11:57:16 AM
ALL a diesel injector pump is like a swiss watch lubrication will be an issue However replacing the glow plug with the new plasma firestorm plug might be very interesting Chet
Chet
I don't have any experience with injectors
I had to look one up .........
http://www.cs.rochester.edu/u/jag/vw/engine/fi/injpump.html
From what I see here it looks to me like it will probably work .
The biggest question deals with corrosion . If the injector is made with corrosion resistant metals it should last quite a while .
I do agree that it will not last as long as it would using oil . Water is not a very good lubricant compared to oil .......but it does have some lubricating properties .
Brass and stainless can work together for a very long time with water as the lube . as long as loading is kept low .
The possability of using a firestorm plug is interesting
I can imagine using a firestorm plug and adding an ingnition system and running it in " mixed mode "
The injector would still be needed for fuel delivery .....or else we are back to the same problem that HHO has ..........we have no quick control
gary
Nightlife and Broli
I tried to use your links but wasn't able to open either of them .
gary
[fixed link]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSDtCkLxQd8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSDtCkLxQd8)
PLAN B
Assuming that the diesel injectors won't work ....... and we have to find another way to control the output .
I still like the diesel .
From what I understand the process we are working with the plasma doesn't actually burn the water ......it just flashes it into steam .
If this is true we can use the timing of an ignition spark to control how much power is created .
As long as we are making plasma we are making more heat . I see no reason that we couldn't keep an arc going for up to around 90 degrees of the stroke .
A diesel works with higher compression and usually turns slower than a conventional engine ........so that gives us more time and pressure to play with .
Of course we would need a higher frequency inverter for sustained plasma
As I said .......this is plan B .........I am still optimistic about plan A
All for all of us a car is a big capitol investment one that has spoiled us with dependability running water through our 1500-3500 $ injector pumps is scary However who says we need the pump if we are using s1r tech to ignite the water circuit plug etc all we need is a water delivery system[carb] fuel injector pumps cost so much because they are very high pressure were doing a whole dif system
Nightlife have one of your mechs bring a rig up to speed [temp]kill the fuel and put an IV [ water drip] see if she keeps going Im out of town but when I get home I have an old diesel I will try this on Chet
Quote from: nightlife on June 30, 2008, 01:50:16 PM
It seams, after reading the following pdf file, that when the water is introduced to plasma, it is creating a "cold" fog explosion. This means there is no heat and therefore would not need to be preheated to get the results.
http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/EBFpSJS-sMYpa8Cek1PzGHH5WYgLGp5EbYiB0zypKT-db8__
30ijrUD_Ai48FWCEJ0HNPnXiasFyEo1ipRExiqkMdXwFzKRoHls/Graneau%20experiments.pdf
The Graneau experiments, Oh yes a very interesting read and extremely relevant to this thread, here it is for people without yahoo group login:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=get93
Quote from: broli on June 30, 2008, 04:14:53 PM
[fixed link]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSDtCkLxQd8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSDtCkLxQd8)
Good find on that video
It is kind of like what I was planning on doing
a metered amount of water put in that thing would make a controlled amount of heat .
That heat will be injected into the cylinder at supersonic speed
As the air in the cylinder mixed with the plasma it would expand .........much like if it was burning .
It is nice to know it has been done before................it is not nice to know that no one knows anything about it now . .
gary
gary it hasn't that is theory revolving around an anomaly 90 yrs old no one put this to a car [except S1r] they put it to metal forming in the 60's who wants to burn water? where do you make money? NOW we play NOW we see!!! something as passive as water puts the little guy on the Map Chet
there is a patent a man has on water steam /gas engine it switches to water at 500 degrees and back to gas below that the only reason I bring it up is in a diesel once it is running we may not even need a plasma plug or we may find the diesel fitted with spark plugs will burn water just like a ICE just add a carb time will tell
Quote from: ramset on June 30, 2008, 04:48:31 PM
All for all of us a car is a big capitol investment one that has spoiled us with dependability running water through our 1500-3500 $ injector pumps is scary However who says we need the pump if we are using s1r tech to ignite the water circuit plug etc all we need is a water delivery system[carb] fuel injector pumps cost so much because they are very high pressure were doing a whole dif system
Nightlife have one of your mechs bring a rig up to speed [temp]kill the fuel and put an IV [ water drip] see if she keeps going Im out of town but when I get home I have an old diesel I will try this on Chet
Chet
I agree ....... I think there are lots of ways to get it done .
I am still planning on using the injectors . I am sure others will be working on other ways
gary
Quote from: broli on June 30, 2008, 04:14:53 PM
[fixed link]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSDtCkLxQd8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSDtCkLxQd8)
Did anyone else notice that he only has a spark plug wire coming out of that thing .........and a blue connector that I am guessing is for water .
gary
Chet
What you say is valid but but would we not be better served by using the existing components where ever we can.
One option to the lubrication issue I can think of can be found here
http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/blteflon.htm
The question here is can it be mixed with H20 or would it need to be injected from another source, and will it cause a problem during combustion.
P.S. your right about the Detroit diesel's
Be well
Tinker
ramset,
QuoteNightlife have one of your mechs bring a rig up to speed [temp]kill the fuel and put an IV [ water drip] see if she keeps going Im out of town but when I get home I have an old diesel I will try this on Chet
That is a good test to try and I will try that tomorrow with a 6.9 diesel.
After reviewing some things today, I think it may be best to inject the water, as a mist, into the intake. As for the injectors, I feel they should be replaced with plasma emitting plugs. The Detroit diesel would not work for this unless the heads were removed and modified to accept plugs.
If we find that they run by just emitting water after they are warmed up and the fuel is shut off, then the Detroit diesel can still be used.
As for running water thru the injector pump, I would have to agree that it would not be a good idea do to the cost of injector pumps. If we find that just by emitting water they still run, I would suggest that we replace the injectors with gasoline emitting fuel injectors.
Regardless on how we do this, I would suggest not using the injector pumps for pumping the water to the injectors.
I did take some pictures of some of my own diesel motors today and I will post them later. They consist of a 6.9 and a 7.3 IHC, a 6.5 GM, 5.9 Cummins and a 8.2 Detroit.
@ all,
Guys, you should be able to replace the glow plugs with the spark plugs, no need to do that through the injectors. Also, water will ruin the high pressure injector pump, as it uses the diesel fuel to lubricate it. The only way you might be able to run water through it is with a water soluble lubricant. In a book I have, VW converted a TDI motor to run on straight alcohol. They reduced the compression some, replaced the glow plugs with spark plugs and added an ignition system. Also, they added a simple fuel pump to replace the high pressure injector pump then added a fuel injection system. They also were able to get a 22% improvement in economy with that motor running on straight alcohol. To improve mileage even more, you could use a fuel vaporizer and inject vaporous alcohol into the air stream to improve mileage even more (I realize this isnt an alcohol thread, sorry). Now from that Stan Meyer video, he says that "processed" water is run right to his injector spark plug where it hits a very high frequency that changes it to the gas. Now, it is proven that the frequency of 42.7122 KHZ will fracture the water. I believe looking at that special injector Stan has, it looks like a mini version of his tube inside a tube design. My guess he gets the inner tube to vibrate and produce that frequency. Hope this helps.
Mark
Quote from: Tinker on June 30, 2008, 05:44:39 PM
Chet
What you say is valid but but would we not be better served by using the existing components where ever we can.
One option to the lubrication issue I can think of can be found here
http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/blteflon.htm
The question here is can it be mixed with H20 or would it need to be injected from another source, and will it cause a problem during combustion.
P.S. your right about the Detroit diesel's
Be well
Tinker
I agree that teflon would help with the lubrication and corrosion problems
I did a search and looked around for about 45 min .......I didn't find anything that looks good yet .
Most of the products that state that they contain teflon really have very little of it .
I will look some more later .
The serious dry teflon lubes can be cured ...... the Dupont site says 300 to 500 degrees .
I would not try to add it to the water ........
I have a prosess that I use on my skates that I think would work well for a dry teflon lube . I use white lightning on my skates .......a wax based lube .
I clean the bearings ...... and lube them up .........then put them together and skate for an hour or so .............the lube needs to be dry before I let them set .........if they are not quite dry . they tend to gum up the next time i skate .
If I keep them moving until they are dry they spin a very long time .........and stay clean for months .
gary
Hi All,
Found a couple of other items that may help here. For Hydrogen to auto ignite, you will need a compression ratio of over 28 to 1.
Another thing, if you can get the temperature of the water to 2730C, the water will decompose into hydrogen and oxygen.
Mark
[quote
This thread will be focusing on using 100% water as fuel for diesel engines. I will be referring to water as HHO in my comments. If you all prefer, I could just say water but it?s the HHO in the water that makes this all possible.
[/quote]
university cologne have tested up to 50% water added to diesel.
and this was working without problems.
BUT nobody cant explaine this experiences. .
I read in 2002 that the first explosion motor (for cars) was made as PUREwater fuel motor.(1880? arround)
This motor was running proper..
The business man that have give the money for this exploration (invention)
have ask that this working item must now reconstruct same
motor now for mineral oil products as fuel.
This "idea" shown me very seriosly and normally !
Earning money is the business!
The information was in 2002 on an webside from australia or new zealand.
and e-book or even CD was offered at 12$.
(sorry i have not buy - PayPal was unknow this time)
Possibly some one have this. and send an copy
My answerback page: http://beam.to/zpe
Gustav Pese
Pese is this it :o
http://pesn.com/2007/11/07/9500457_BiosFuel_SolarChallenge/
Quote from: Tinker on July 01, 2008, 04:59:46 PM
Pese is this it :o
http://pesn.com/2007/11/07/9500457_BiosFuel_SolarChallenge/
Also this is aproxx equivalent to the test in germany.
gasoline als diesel can be mixed, up to 50% water.
I also have done this 1961 with my first car ford.
some exerience with "emulsions" and also "srayed" water
was working. perhaps i will start again now with ultrasonic
watervapor devices that i have in stock...
Also som german Inventors have hade an patent and offered that
1966 on IAA (Intern. Auto Expo Frankfurt/Germany)
No German Car Manufacturer will have this.
ONY SAAB and an Japanese Company have take an license.
Saag gav produced over years an car that was made /as option) with an extra water-tank
Also i know an person that have test-driven an SAAB prototyp car 2999ccm
that drive with water with +50% more power (Consume 2liter water at 500km
aditionally to the gasoline) I have not asked for the consume of gasoline,i will try to become this information.
----------------------------
Gustav Pese
Here you find the links (german)
to translate , i use www.translate.ru
(i think , its the best free translation now.
reibstoff / FUEL
Pure Water Motor VIDEO
(ansich "alter Hut" gab es vor dem Benzin-Motor !
wurde auf Mineral?lbasis DANN umkonstruiert, um
ein "fortlaufendes" Gesch?ft aus der Erfindung zu
machen ) "Sehr sinnvoll" (Dies hierzu im WWW
eingetragenen Links , B?cher und CD hierzu ,
werden nicht mehr angeboten, resp. sind gel?scht !
G.Pese
Wasser + Treibstoff DEUTSCH
http://www.presstext.de/cms/index/opm/1412.html benzin wasser
http://www.uni-koeln.de/pi/i/2004.102.htm benzin + wasser
= ergibt: mehr Energie
http://www.uni-protokolle.de/nachrichten/id/35893/ benzin wasser
http://www.innovations-report.de/html/bericht-30636.html benzin wasser
http://www.wtz.de/fuel-wat.htm
Versuch Benzin + 20 % Wasser.
Nissan Febr 2007.
Tankf?llung Benzin reicht 450km.
Mit 20 % Wasserzusatz wird die Reichweite auf 700km erh?ht . D.h. fast doppelt da ja
Gesamtmischung nur 80% Benzin enth?lt
Video hierzu:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7711785211600823269
Hier ein Video (von mehreren)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WsKOdxL ? re=related
Beachtet auch die enormen Kalkabsonderungen auf der Wasseroberfl?che, das ist f?r eine normale Elektrolyse nicht normal und sieht aus wie beim Reaktor von Daniel Dingel.
Er produziert mit den 0,5 A ca. 8x soviel Gas wie nach Faraday erlaubt w?re, bei einer normalen Elektrolyse.
http://www.oupower.com/phpBB2/viewtopic ? c&start=30
Hier die Bauanleitung:
http://www.oupower.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1602
Das scheint mir der erfolgversprechendste Nachbau zu sein den es ?berhaupt gibt.
****************************************************
The above i find on my private URL
http://beam.to/pesetrier
I started the wrecker today and let it run, the damn thing ran so good I was afraid to shut the fuel down and try to use water to start it. I would hate to mess the motor up but after doing some more research when I got home and I am now glad I didn't try it.
I was received a email from pese that said he was told that water exploded at 16 atu, which is about 250 psi, most diesel engines run at about 350 psi.
Diesels fire off the heat created by compressing the air. The fuel is injected after the compression is created. If water is added to the air before it is compressed, it will explode on the up stroke which could blow the engine. It would explode against the stroke instead of exploding with the stroke.
The water would have to be injected right after top dead center and it would have to be injected at over the psi created in the cylinder. this means that if the cylinder compression is at 350psi, the water would have to be pumped in at 351+ psi.
As the piston starts moving away from TDC, the compression will decrease, if the water is not injected before the compression falls below 250, the water will not explode and it would be pushed out thru the exhaust.
Now this brings me to the thought of how they use water to cut metal. They use high pressure water, sometimes with a abrasive added. I am wondering if the water is exploding on contact from the compression created between the water flow and the solid object it is used to cut and I am also wondering how the pressure is created without it exploding before contact.
Another thought is how can air be compressed in a cylinder at over 250psi and not explode. We all know that water does accumulate in air tanks and therefore based on it supposed to explode at 250psi, the tanks would explode.
Something just doesn't add up here. Am I missing something?
I know this isn't the answer but there is some talent here.
http://delphi.com/pdf/techpapers/2008-01-1190.pdf
This is just stuff
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=1599668
This could help with the lubrication issue
http://www.dieselnet.com/news/2002/09totalfina.php
Pese I'm still sorting out the translator thing.
Be Well
Tinker
Pese
I Got the German translated and now the ENGLISH LOOKS FUNNY!
Isn't technology Wonderful.....
Nightlife the Camaro guy said the piston needed to be past TDC when the ignitor fired that's kinda why I think the injector pump would be useful for timing and speed control.
That said, I agree that there is risk of damage to the pump and it should be weighed carefully. I'm still working on not knowing enough to know what I don't know.
Be Well
Tinker
Quote from: Tinker on July 01, 2008, 10:48:45 PM
Pese
I Got the German translated and now the ENGLISH LOOKS FUNNY!
Isn't technology Wonderful.....
Nightlife the Camaro guy said the piston needed to be past TDC when the ignitor fired that's kinda why I think the injector pump would be useful for timing and speed control.
That said, I agree that there is risk of damage to the pump and it should be weighed carefully. I'm still working on not knowing enough to know what I don't know.
Be Well
Tinker
fine that is working (better than google) youcan chose "technical" not "poular" key for translation.
for professional use , you can als see www.leo.org
(university,munich Germany)
G.Pese
Quote from: nightlife on July 01, 2008, 10:15:38 PM
I was received a email from pese that said he was told that water exploded at 16 atu, which is about 250 psi, most diesel engines run at about 350 psi.
Nightlife
This information is just not right .
In spite of the fact that someone reported warm diesel engines turning over with just water .......water does not just explode at ANY presure that we could hope to achieve .
If water did explode at 250 pounds this little planet would be dust in space .
How much pressure do you think there is at the bottom of the ocean ?
How much pressure is in scuba tanks ?
There are lots of places where water is used under thousands of pounds of pressure ......... I have never heard of a warning that water may explode it the pressure gets to high .
There is warnings on equipment that uses high pressure air .........not because it is explosive ........but because of the amount of energy stored by compressing the air .
If an air cylinder has a defect and that defect gives way .....the result is often LIKE an explosion .
A way to check the safety of the cylinders is to fill them with water and pressurize them to at least twice the pressure that they will be used at .
When filled with water and the defect gives way they spring a leak or crack open ..........NO EXPLOSION.
gary
QuoteThere is warnings on equipment that uses high pressure air .........not because it is explosive ........but because of the amount of energy stored by compressing the air .
If an air cylinder has a defect and that defect gives way .....the result is often LIKE an explosion .
A way to check the safety of the cylinders is to fill them with water and pressurize them to at least twice the pressure that they will be used at .
When filled with water and the defect gives way they spring a leak or crack open ..........NO EXPLOSION.
Hi Gary, this is what I was thinking too and why I posted what I did. It just didn't make sense to me.
Quote from: nightlife on July 02, 2008, 12:18:43 PM
Hi Gary, this is what I was thinking too and why I posted what I did. It just didn't make sense to me.
Nightlife
When working on a project like this information gathering is required .
The information can come from anywhere .
NONE of the information can be truely trusted until it is varified by our own experiences .
Anyone can provide disinformation
Anyone can pass that disiformation along thinking it is the truth .
In the end the only way to really know the truth is by finding out for yourself what works and what doesn't .
I believe that Sr19 did modify a car to run on water .
There is a chance that his story is a fraud .
It really doesn't matter . The truth is we are finding things that stack up in favor of it working .
gary
All Water doesn't explode at 250 PSI when I was involved wjth highspeed rail[ Amtrak] they were cutting very high KSI rail with water jet [I think 40-60 thousand psi] that was ten years ago Chet
I dont think water, as long as the bonds are intact, will explode until it reaches the temperature of disassociation or when the bonds are broke. Remember, after if "burns" it turns back into water. Roy McAlister is supposed to be an expert in the field of Hydrogen. I dont know if there would be a way to invite him into the forums?
Mark
All going back home tonight manana will bring the old 240d up to temp slowly kill the fuel and and set up the water IV nightlife you chicken its not gonna blow with water [just kidding you use your trucks for your work ] the 240d is nice but im not gonna kill it I wouldn't do this to one of my dozers or excavaters etc ChetPS let you know what happens
ramset,
Quotenightlife you chicken ]
LOL, you are right.
I got to thinking and remembered that diesel is not injected until after compression is created. That is because the compression creates the heat that ignites the fuel. If you add fuel before the compression is created, it will explode before the piston reaches the top of it's stroke and therefore causes the piston to blow back the opposite way.
If water is injected into the air inlet, the cylinder will suck it in and add it to the compression stroke which will create even more compression because the water will take up room that would have been air.
There is only one way I can think of to be able to use water as fuel for a diesel and that is thru the injection process. I posted this next drawing on Luc's thread but here it is again and it could work on any motor that has plugs or injectors.
If water did explode at 250 pounds this little planet would be dust in space .
@nightlife
I have also think. but i bekice that diesel is also not exploding in constanr pressure from any pressure.
it must be an quick change in pressure (cick / stress) so that
the material HEAT UP
it is the compressing (you see the best by an air compressor). the tube go very hot.
If you "hammer" an steel. it go hot
if ypu bending copper iron it go hot.
iiif so quicker so hotter in this "pulse-moment" the heat change.
THIS can made the explosion from this gases,
diesel motor ist only in prinzip an compressor.
ON Compression at 16 or mor aty, is in this moment /short) the air so hot than .in this moment ijected diesel wir explode in this moment. (Why not water?)
Gustav Pese
Well so,
The thing about HHO explosions is that they IMplode. They don't EXplode. (Brown's gas.)
I saw a couple of folks ask this one early on last page, but I don't remember anyone actually proving an explosion from water.
And since it is not absolutely clear what it is that the plasma arc is firing (either HHO Brown's gas, or water liquid or steam), we must find that out.
OK now, the first thing to do is to make sure this is an implosion (or prove absolutely it is an explosion) I am sure someone can rig up a spark plug to fit into a plastic bottle and when it ignites it will be easy to see if it is an explosion or an implosion.
IMHO it is also necessary to make sure of this before anybody hurts an engine.
I posted this same thought on some thread last week but I think it is relevant here too.
If you inject the tiny spray of water into the cylinder then time it at BDC (not TDC) with a spark, the whole thing ought to implode. Now, this implosion will reverse the situation in the opposite cylinder and the gaseous HHO should be ready for implosion there etc. (that is because the opposite piston is creating a powerful vacuum when it is forced down the cylinder)
I have said a few times I am not a car guy, so I don't know the lingo and the proper descriptions, so forgive this, I think I described it enough but if not I will retry.
My wimhurst machine is not getting a result and I am not sure how to try this with a pop bottle, I am still thinking.
jeanna
Hi all,
Regarding the issue of trying to use an implosion as a vacuum to pull up the piston, this is not a good idea. The strength of a connecting rod is the part between the pin in the piston and the crankshaft throw. There is only enough metal around the top of the pin and the bottom of the crank to maintain the strength of the rod. If you try to pull up the piston via vacuum, you will break a rod.
Mark
Quote from: Mark69 on July 02, 2008, 09:40:51 PM
Hi all,
Regarding the issue of trying to use an implosion as a vacuum to pull up the piston, this is not a good idea. .
Mark
Maybe so, Mark.
At the moment, I just want to know im or ex.
The fact that the plugs end up cool after firing is to me another indication that it is HHO that is what is being burned here, but for now, I jus wanna know!
jeanna
@mark
yes you have right .
an vacuum can not pull the pistons , because the gases are so flexible (work not like hydraulic fluids).
gases (also h2o) explode first , an do his work, after that thei contract again (h2o) possibly more than others) h2o butan propan will implode (more or minder) to water again
G.Pese
Ossie answered this question DEFINATELY EXPLOSION put plug in a tube[ossie] and shot things out with GREAT force Chet
Nightlife it has been my experience that a diesel will run with no fuel from the injectors have seen to many runaways where the motor seems to suck the oil from the crankcase to keep running [SCARY] Chet
Could these work as test engines??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3g0ri5kiRkM
QuoteNightlife it has been my experience that a diesel will run with no fuel from the injectors have seen to many runaways where the motor seems to suck the oil from the crankcase to keep running [SCARY] Chet
Hi Chet, you are right. I for got all about that. I was working on a old 1970 Kenworth that had the throttle stuck wide open. The injectors were the problem and if I would have started it, it would have became a "run away" and even if I was to have shut the fuel off, I was told that it would suck up the oil from the pan and keep running until it blew up or ran out of oil. I was then told that some have blown up shops when they did blow.
Therefore, it must not hurt the motor as bad as I thought it would. I was also watching the video I posted and he hosed HHO into his air intake and it seams to run just fine and he is reporting better mileage.
I still think it would be better to inject the water after TDC but do to what you have said and reminded of, I guess I can try adding water to the intake to see if it will restart.
Quote from: yaz on July 03, 2008, 12:45:31 AM
Could these work as test engines??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3g0ri5kiRkM
Yaz
I guess they could be used for very short term tests
The problem as I see it is that they are designed to run on oil . That oil is not only the fuel ........it also provides the lubrication . Water will provide SOME lubrication ......but not near as much as oil .
Rust could also be a problem .
gary
I am not good with circuits but I find that s1r has used the coils coil wire for the ground to charge what ever he has in the container. When the coil fires, it breaks the grounds connection.
What can be charged by connecting a negative and positive and then discharged to the closest ground just by breaking the connection?
What ever can do that, must be what he is using.
Quote from: yaz on July 03, 2008, 12:45:31 AM
Could these work as test engines??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3g0ri5kiRkM
YES
I did a long post to explain it to you and lost it, but you can with some modifications, More later
Be Well
Tinker
Gary already answered my question and he was right.
QuoteThat sounds like the " normal " way to trigger an ignition coil
gary
The first 110 volt igniter coil that comes to mind is a oil furnace igniter coil. You can find them in the common kerosene salamander heaters. I just happen to have a couple of them. One of which has a bad pump but the igniter still works fine. I will try it out tomorrow along with trying to blow up by wreckers motor by spraying water in the intake.
Vegetable oil, also used one ... lot of vars are on way in Europ.
Rust: Carl Cella have solved this problem 20 years ago wit his HHO Var.
Otherwise you will drive the motor like ALL LPG Cars that will be run with
LPG AND Gasoil. (LPG contains an lot of Water that condens after burning!)
The last 10mInutes you MUST deive with gasoline od Diesel to
dry all water out (that is melanged in Oil, sit in Valves outlet rnz).
It is no problem do run any motor this way, an nirmal lifetime.
The simplest way to use HHO ist to use an LPG Motor , or only the
LPG-Kit-Parts to cahnge the construction.
G.P
Quote from: resonanceman on July 03, 2008, 03:18:50 AM
Yaz
I guess they could be used for very short term tests
The problem as I see it is that they are designed to run on oil . That oil is not only the fuel ........it also provides the lubrication . Water will provide SOME lubrication ......but not near as much as oil .
Rust could also be a problem .
gary
Quote from: jeanna on July 02, 2008, 09:18:23 PM
OK now, the first thing to do is to make sure this is an implosion (or prove absolutely it is an explosion) I am sure someone can rig up a spark plug to fit into a plastic bottle and when it ignites it will be easy to see if it is an explosion or an implosion.
Jeanna
I think it is both
years ago I remember watching a video about browns gas
He filled a plastic container with it in a tank of water then ignited it .
water rushed in and filled the container .
I am pretty sure that HHO explodes ........but then it quickly .........or sometimes extreamly quickly condenses causing an implosion .
There have been discussions about the need to preheat the engine to slow the condensation down enough to get the engine to kick over
gary
Hi Gary,
Thanks for the exp.
I have found some of what I was looking for.
1- this is ripped off from zenarrow's beginning paragraph in his thread:
QuoteBrown's gas I read about in the 80's. He used it as a torch to weld an iron bar and a brick together, and could run his hand through the flame with water condensing on the surface of his hand.
When it ignited in a cylinder, it turned to water. And in fact sucked the pistons. So instead of firing near Top Dead Centre, the pistons needed to fire near Bottom Dead Centre. The exhaust was water
So, he was making that suggestion.
In the watercar pdf from S1R which will not allow me to copy/paste, I took a screen shot.
(next to last page on the bottom.)
Since I am unable to manipulate the text, I just want to point out that there is specific reference to implosion starting in the middle of the second paragraph. Beginning with "when the piston starts back down...
Have a look. I am trying to help here. I think some things will naturally fall into place if car people understand that it is probably IMplosion.
I will now retreat back into the background and just watch.
jeanna
Sorry guys but I was unable to get my 6.9 to restart by just misting water in to the intake. It was ran until it reached the normal running temperature and then the fuel was disconnected then it died. I tried to restart it to make sure all the fuel was out and it would not start. I then sprayed water in to the intake with my mist sprayer as I tried to start it. It would not start. I feel I sprayed enough to start it, if it was to start. I did not want to spray to much.
I then reconnected the fuel lines and after bleeding the system, it started back up. It runs just fine as it did when I started. Therefore it will take more then just spraying water in to the intake. I want to try a couple other things like using charged water, steam, charged steam, and water vapor and then charged water vapor.
I would have tried those things today too, but I had to take the family to the Field of flight balloon festival here in Battle creek.
I did come across some info regarding charged vapors. I have seen some videos about this in the past but I thought it was a scam but I am starting to thing it may not be.
Watch these two next videos and tell me what you all think.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMNCebzgCgg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2KRRgjcJTg&feature=related
If this really works, I think we can use it to fuel diesel engines as well as all fuel consuming engines and use water and or any liquid as fuel. I wonder how many MPG we can get from urine? LOL
Hi jeanna, I am glad you are interested in this thread. I have seen many experiments you have preformed on other threads and your input here is much appreciated. Please feel free to post any questions and or suggestions you may feel necessary.
You have a good head on your shoulders and I for one like to hear what you have to say.
Implosion vs explosion.
I was trying to find a water pump that I read about but the closest I found was
The Humphrey pump (the diagram I believe is missing a one way valve in the
?play pipe?.
http://www.angelfire.com/ak5/energy21/humphreypump.htm
The one I remember was a pumping station in England , built a 100 years
Ago and still working which used vacuum to lift water. Might have been the same or a
Variation of this.
There?s also the 6 cycle diesel.
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060227/FREE/302270007/1023/THISWEEKSISSUE
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Crower's_Six-Stroke_Engine
and also , water injection is also used in turbine power plants for increased efficiency
and power,
http://scitation.aip.org/getabs/servlet/GetabsServlet?prog=normal&id=JETPEZ000124000001000096000001&idtype=cvips&gifs=yes
http://energy-tech.com/index.cfm?PageID=108&c2e=236&e2e=0&rs=0&artid=420
I wonder if you injected water into the exhaust before the turbo
And used the increased pressure developed on the compressor side to
Help run the engine by ?compressed air?. (as a efficiency booster,still running on fuel of course).
Might kill or crack the exhaust side of the turbo though.
(some diesels I believe use a throttle plate to increase temperature and
Reduce ?pumping?, that might need to be removed or opened up some?)
Cliff,
Hi all u car people,
user zenarrow has compiled a bunch or very relevant videos. He posted his youtube link in the pyramid thread today.
The one on top seems to be about what I was talking about with implosion.
He says his design is not for diesel, but I bet it could be.
have a look
http://www.youtube.com/user/UnityEnergy
(http://www.youtube.com/user/UnityEnergy)
back to the side curtains ;) ,
jeanna
Hi
How about some UNscientific info ??? I live in Costa Rica, and drive an old Diesel Land Cruiser.
I use WELL filtered used Deep fryer oil, and mix with Diesel and a little Regular gasoline. 70% oil, 30% diesel and a ? cup of gasoline, in 10 gallons of mix.
Use the glow plugs and cycle them 2 cycles. Engine starts and runs a little rough. I keep the plugs lit up, and within a minute or so, I head out. The engine smokes a lite blue smoke, if I don't keep using the plugs, intermittently. Supposedly, the used oil will end up "coking" or carboning up the rings and injector tips, sooo, When I return home, it's ALL uphill, so the engine is really warmed up, I pop the hood, and gently drizzle plain water into the screen type air filter. The water gets broken up, by passing through the screen, and the vacuum should break it up more.
I know it's NOT injected mist, but, the engine WILL bog down, if I don't run it at least ? throttle. I do this a couple times, and the black smoke, and blue smoke and white smoke (steam) ?? makes an interesting cloud. ::) ::) Right now, I think I have a bad glow plug, because I have developed a miss at start up, and it blows a little blue smoke, probably from the oil-diesel mix. As soon as the temp gets up a hair, the engine smooths out and runs fine.
NOW, a while back, I was getting into the HHO thing.
I found that later injection was necessary for the EXplosion, before the IMplosion. I have some good contacts on another unrelated forum, that have tried to offer assistance.
I was wanting to try to inject the HHO vapor into the diesel engine, same as guys do with gasoline engines. One guy thinks he may have an idea, but, the items he suggests are difficult to obtain down here, because my Spanish is Poor, to say the least. Also, Gringos are rich, so, they double or more the prices.
IF this info might be of interest, I could copy-paste the thoughts this guy sent.
He seemed it had a good chance of working, without machining the head.
Unfortunately, this is ALL well over MY old head, so, I'm just rambling on. ::) ::) ;D
Harrold yes post it here Thanks if its real i can source parts in USA and save you some money Chet
Here's the messages I received by 2 different people.
Maybe it will help someone get a Diesel injected with HHO.
"Harold here is a link to some water injection devices. You may already have this booked marked though.
www.free-energy-info.co.uk/index.html Good luck keep, me posted if you will."
Second guy:
http://cloudtops.com/fog_nozzles.htm
I still go back to what they show in the link. This is about the only way I know how to deliver a fog.
Put one in each intake runner and let the piston pull it in. There is really nothing you can put directly
into the cylinder head or shoot directly into the chamber without MAJOR reengineering.
A gas fuel injector has a line comming into it from a shared fuel rail. Pressure is about 40-60 psi.
THe injector is basically a solenoid that has power on one side (hot all the time) and is actuated by grounding
the other side. A small pintle opens up and fuel flows past it and to the tip where it is atomized.
I don't know if a fuel injector will atomize the water sufficiently though, havn't tried that before.
I do know those button atomizers do a very good job and get about as fine of a mist that I think you are looking for.
What ever you use for a water storage tank you can use a high pressure fuel pump in the tank.
Can pick them up for cheap at any parts store. There is a pick up sock in the bottom where the fuel
is pulled into the pump, a line that goes to the fuel rail (high pressure) and a return line.
The newer fuel systems operate on a returnless system where the pump regulates the volume and pressure.
Older (pre 2006) systems return what ever wasn't used. It had a regulator on the fuel rail that would keep
the pressure constant (pumps have the capacity of putting out over 100psi but it is hard on them thermally speaking).
Most diesels have a cam or crank sensor, if it is an electronic type system, or other timing sensor to tell the injectors when to open.
It sends a signal to a computer that in turn interprets the signal and fires injectors at the right time.
The system you are looking at doing does not require milisecond accuracy, just knowing how many degrees of engine
rotation the intake valve is open and what the firing order is.
The electronics part is kind of out of my league as far as desiging but the basic principle is you need an
RPM signal comming in, a timing signal (cam or crank sensor). On the output side will be a hot wire that
feeds the injectors and a method to give them ground at the right time. Gas injectors usually are fired in miliseconds.
Harold thanks for the links will look and get back Chet
I just found this at Extreme HHO. It's a nice 30 amp Pulse Width Modulator with a built in gauge.
http://www.extremehho.com (http://www.extremehho.com)
This all sounds great to me. The high compression ratio of the diesel engine compresses the fuel in turn increasing the temp. to the point of detonation. Water turns into a Brown's gas a little over 900 degrees. Seems to me an electrode or set of electrodes, maybe a positive and negative needs to be designed to fit the combustion chamber. I think also an oil or lubricant needs to be developed to keep the upper end lubed and rust free. I saw a very cool slow turning Lister type diesel 3000 watt generator. .0296 gallons an hour at full-load. http://www.generatorsales.com. I haven't read all the posts on this subject but I'm glad I've found it. A friend off mine has a VW diesel with two Browns' gas generators putting out a liter a minute apiece and gets 70 mpg's. Back to the subject about what does it cost to build the plasma generator? Good reading, Brian
Quote from: nightlife on June 30, 2008, 01:48:44 AM
A member said we should design a HHO set up for diesel and I thought I would start a new thread and dedicate it to designing a HHO on demand set up for diesels and not just small trucks but for semi?s and large diesel tractors as well.
In this following video we have a 14 cell unit designed for a 7.3 diesel. It is not running off just the HHO but I thought it would make for a good start video to help get us going.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jlv0_m7834
I have a fleet of diesel wreckers and I will dedicate one for experimenting purposes. I am not sure which one as of right now but I will look them over tomorrow and then decide.
We may be able to utilize something from the following thread that is being discussed at this time.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,5024.0.html
I also have other links I will provide as time goes by. I have to locate them and I will post them as I find them again. If anyone else has and or comes across links to info that can help us, please post them so that we can all check them out.
I do ask that everyone welcome all comments with the up most respect and I ask that no one put another member down for a idea they have to offer. We are all here for the same reason.
Thats the attitude that will make this technology work!!! Keep on keeping on!