Someone had a great idea. Enter my diode array in the Randi $1M challenge.
I would greatly appreciate it if anyone has info on this guy Randi and his challenge? Is he a shady character? A lot of questions. For example, is the $1M paid out all at once, or is it paid out on a monthly basis?
So Randi comes out to see the device. It produces a DC voltage across the load, thus being a perpetual motion machine of the 2nd kind, violating the 2nd law of thermodynamics. So then what? Does Randi take my device away from me, and who knows what he'll do? As I have stated for a long time, I'm willing spend the time to let scientists analyze my device *while I am present.* I don't trust anyone. If they think I'm holding some transmitter, then fine, give me some high power binoculars and have me stand a mile away, so long as I can always see what they're doing to the diode array.
Thanks for any insight and info.
PL
Where would the perpetual motion machine application be located? I see one application, but it says nothing about perpetual motion. It only mentions "psychic, supernatural or paranormal ability."
http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge/challenge-application.html
PL
I think you got the wrong Randi. James Randi is willing to give $1M to anyone who can prove that they have psychic or paranormal abilities. He is into proving them as fakes.
Unless your diode array works due to your psychic abilities, don't bother.
I think you are looking for something else.
Try Richard Branson of Virgin. He has a couple of things on the go. He is willing to give $25Mil. to anyone who can come up with something to remove the greenhouse gases. He also has a Virgin Green Fund that is used to invest into green companies. You tie up with him and you'll have it made.
Thanks for the reply, but I was told by someone at this forum to enter my diode array into the challenge, and was given this address -->
http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge/challenge-blog-mainmenu-97/158-the-perpetual-motion-parade.html
PL
Here's the email I am sending to the Randi organization -->
+++++++++++
Dear Randi organization,
I would like to enter my diode array into the $1M Randi challenge, but I have questions, if you don't mind. Perhaps they're answered somewhere on your site, but I was unable to find them.
A quick introduction to my device. I have soldered 156 diodes in-series, and then placed a Mylar capacitor across that (the entire diode array). That is it. The diode array is contained in sufficient metal shielding. Also, as advised by scientists, the diode array is presently contained in a mineral oil bath. Mineral oil is the standard/common type of oil used for temperature sensitive testing. The oil bath eliminates all measurable effects that small temperature gradients may have on the diode array. The diode array, for example, produces a measurable DC voltage, depending on the room temperature, the resistance load across the diode array. I have been logging the diode array DC voltage over the past few months. Last night the measured DC voltage was 23.9uV (0.0239mV) DC across a 2M ohm load. That is not going to power anything, but it proves the concept. Please make no mistake that measuring 23.9uV DC across a 2M ohm load is not a difficult task, a task that any competent EE (Electrical Engineer) could easily handle. So, that's not much power, but it still violates the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics nonetheless! Furthermore, the mathematics shows that a diode array made of microscopic diodes could produce thousands of watts per cubic meter. That is continuous non-stop power, day and night, 365 days per year. This technology is well worth investigating.
I am certain Randi and his organization would be more than happy to pay the $1M challenge money to a legitimate science researcher. It is my intent to use the money to further my diode array research, to build a diode array *chip* that would produce usable amounts of power; e.g., provide all of the electrical power needs for a home.
Some questions:
1. Where is the application for the perpetual motion machines? I saw one application, and it was concerning "psychic, supernatural or paranormal claims."
2. There are three kinds/classifications of perpetual motion machines. My diode array is considered a perpetual motion of the 2nd kind. Every scientist I've asked said my diode array would violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics. Please advice if my diode array qualifies for the one million dollar Randi challenge. The first and second kind of perpetual motion machines violate the Laws of Thermodynamics. For details on the three kinds of perpetual motion machines, please read -->
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion_machine#Classification
3. What is the *entire* process? Lets presume that Randi comes here and sees the diode array producing a DC voltage across a load. Then what happens?
4. At some point am I *required* to give or loan you my diode array? I am willing to let scientists analyze the device as long as they want so long as I am present. If they believe I have some hidden transmitter, then they can hand me some binoculars so I can watch far away. I am willing to travel to any safe location so long as I can afford it, or if I am paid for travel, room, and board.
5. Presuming that I win the challenge, I would need to know the maximum time it would take from the point where Randi sees the device to when I would actually receive the one million dollars. My main concern is that it would require years of having the device validated, and require a lot of my time before actually receiving the one million dollars.
6. Is the one million dollars paid out all at once, or is it paid on a monthly basis, or what?
+++++++++++
Doesn't it make sense that anyone who truly believes their machine violates the present laws of physics, as understood by conventional scientists, should enter their machine in the one Million dollar Randi challenge?
[cricket, cricket, cricket] The quietude here is deafening. Am I the only small guy (excluding companies such as Steorn and Blacklight) who believes in what they say? ;D ... [cricket, cricket, cricket]
PL
Paul,
I really don't think you will get a reply from them. As I mentioned, the challenge is to prove you have psychic abilities. I don't think they care about your diode array.
But good luck anyways.
MrMag,
Ultimately, you could be correct. Maybe they'll run away with their tail between their legs knowing full well I could have something. That being said, here's a direct quote from their web page -->
Quote from the Randi website:
++++++
The intial guidelines for submitting a Perpetual Motion Machine to the Challenge are very simple. The applicant must fulfill all guidelines stated in the Challenge Application, and must, additionally, have the machine built and ready to test prior to applying.
++++++
Maybe you're correct. I'd feel more comfortable about the Randi organization if they could at least spell correctly-- note to the word "intial." Anyhow, yes, I will pursue it. If they deny my diode array, then in all likelihood I'll begin to make a lot of media noise until they at least publicly admit that it's possible to violate the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, or they no longer accept perpetual motion machines.
PL
Randi is a credible guy - I read his site every week. He does take on perpetual motion and pseudoscience in his challenge as well (although his main focus is supernatural claims).
I suggest registering at the forums at http://forums.randi.org/ and posting if you want some input. The forum at http://forums.randi.org/forumdisplay.php?f=8 addresses the $1m challenge specifically.
The forums attract a lot of qualified engineering and physics types.
Thanks for the info! I'll check it out.
PL
Quote from: PaulLowrance on December 30, 2008, 04:16:52 PM
Someone had a great idea. Enter my diode array in the Randi $1M challenge.
I would greatly appreciate it if anyone has info on this guy Randi and his challenge? Is he a shady character? A lot of questions. For example, is the $1M paid out all at once, or is it paid out on a monthly basis?
So Randi comes out to see the device. It produces a DC voltage across the load, thus being a perpetual motion machine of the 2nd kind, violating the 2nd law of thermodynamics. So then what? Does Randi take my device away from me, and who knows what he'll do? As I have stated for a long time, I'm willing spend the time to let scientists analyze my device *while I am present.* I don't trust anyone. If they think I'm holding some transmitter, then fine, give me some high power binoculars and have me stand a mile away, so long as I can always see what they're doing to the diode array.
Thanks for any insight and info.
PL
Randi's Application (http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge/challenge-application.html)
Super natural means
1. Of or relating to existence outside the natural world.
2.
Attributed to a power that seems to violate or go beyond natural forces. 3. Of or relating to a deity.
4. Of or relating to the immediate exercise of divine power; miraculous.
5. Of or relating to the
miraculous.
Background radiation is a natural force and making use of it isn't any more perpetual motion than a windmill would be.
Using gravity to rotate a wheel while doing useful work would be super natural. It would violate the scientific understanding gravity is a conservative, path independent force.
Making a gravity powered wheel would also be a
miracleIf you could make a perpetual motion device Randi won't take it but we will before you even enter the Randi.
Bessler007
Cmdr, MIB HQ
I'd agree that capturing blackbody radiation *should not* be considered anything as such, but unfortunetely the conventional science community clearly states my diode array is a perpetual motion machine of the 2nd kind. :'(
Thanks,
PL
Nice work on your diode array. Been following your work and it is K.I.S.S. at its best!!! Now for your application... Sitting at an acceptable distance while people look and test your equipment is one thing but think of what you are setting yourself up for. i would suggest that you be present at all testing, i mean present as in there. If they want to scan you for energy sources let them. lets face it diodes connected in series to a capacitor is not that hard to replicate if they don't believe you. Also you may want to be careful about handing out particulars about your device. being as you pretty much told them the concept and how to build it. "societies" scientific laws are only in place until someone breaks them, then once broken it is counted as an "exception" to the law until lots of people do it then it becomes "this is only true if" until we find out that our ignorance is what is stopping us. Your array could be doing any number of things but what it is defiantly doing is "channeling" (being on the principal of that energy cannot be created only moved from one place to another) energy. Now my theory on your device is if heat is the presence of excess energy your device might only work in areas where there is some heat. This i don't think is a problem being as the point at which there is no heat ( i am unsure on what temperature this would be if we have even been there) but if this is the case it is not a violation but instead an ingenious way of reclaiming lost energy!!! But that theory is based on nothing more than my own brain running off. You have done a marvellous thing and i think that there is lots of competitions out there willing to pay inventors for coming up with energy from no where. And if they say you don't win because of some small technicallity (like because this wouldn't work in -10000000 deg F you don't have what you said you have. You will have how ever massive media coverage and world wide fame as the man who invented a useable powersource that everyone can use, well everyone that doesn't live in sub zero temperatures. Thats still a massive market base an i am sure an electric car with the entire shell of the car and alot of the interior (windows if you can make clear arrays) would work amazingly in 90% of the worlds populated areas... but jumping the gun there. Nice work and good luck!!!
Quote2LoT (2nd Law of Thermodynamics) is interpreted as meaning there is no usable energy in a closed system in equilibrium.
Is your point the universe is a closed system in equilibrium?
. . .a black body is a perfect absorber of radiant energy,
Bessler007
Quote from: CrazyEwok on December 30, 2008, 10:31:42 PM
Nice work on your diode array. Been following your work and it is K.I.S.S. at its best!!! Now for your application... Sitting at an acceptable distance while people look and test your equipment is one thing but think of what you are setting yourself up for. i would suggest that you be present at all testing, i mean present as in there. If they want to scan you for energy sources let them. lets face it diodes connected in series to a capacitor is not that hard to replicate if they don't believe you. Also you may want to be careful about handing out particulars about your device. being as you pretty much told them the concept and how to build it. "societies" scientific laws are only in place until someone breaks them, then once broken it is counted as an "exception" to the law until lots of people do it then it becomes "this is only true if" until we find out that our ignorance is what is stopping us. Your array could be doing any number of things but what it is defiantly doing is "channeling" (being on the principal of that energy cannot be created only moved from one place to another) energy. Now my theory on your device is if heat is the presence of excess energy your device might only work in areas where there is some heat. This i don't think is a problem being as the point at which there is no heat ( i am unsure on what temperature this would be if we have even been there) but if this is the case it is not a violation but instead an ingenious way of reclaiming lost energy!!! But that theory is based on nothing more than my own brain running off. You have done a marvellous thing and i think that there is lots of competitions out there willing to pay inventors for coming up with energy from no where. And if they say you don't win because of some small technicallity (like because this wouldn't work in -10000000 deg F you don't have what you said you have. You will have how ever massive media coverage and world wide fame as the man who invented a useable powersource that everyone can use, well everyone that doesn't live in sub zero temperatures. Thats still a massive market base an i am sure an electric car with the entire shell of the car and alot of the interior (windows if you can make clear arrays) would work amazingly in 90% of the worlds populated areas... but jumping the gun there. Nice work and good luck!!!
Thanks for the great insight CrazyEwok! Some areas that you point out, such as small temperature gradients is difficult to prove, or even disprove. It's something that's best seen over months of measurements. I would not know how to mathematically make the diode produce a consistent DC voltage (with the same polarity) if say the temperature gradient reversed. During the night, the diode array temp is cold, 50's to 60's, where the temp slowly decreases over time. During the day, it's been as high as the high 90's, where the temp slowly increases over time. During all situations it's always produced a DC voltage with the same polarity. Perhaps I'm missing something, but the math I'm aware of says the DC voltage polarity would change if the temp gradient reverses. This is a good thing, that the diode polarity has remained the same, since it points to a way of aggregating the energy to a usable form.
PL
Quote from: Bessler007 on December 30, 2008, 10:39:50 PM
Is your point the universe is a closed system in equilibrium?
. . .a black body is a perfect absorber of radiant energy,
Bessler007
What I meant by blackbody radiation is the electromagnetic waves known as T-rays or THz waves that all surface matter on Earth radiates. It's around 450 watts per square meter. Of course, as you probably know, the blackbody radiation varies with ambient temp. Blackbody radiation on Pluto would be a lot lower than on Earth.
As far as the Universe, I'm a firm believer in the Multiverse. ;) IMO gravity continually escapes and enters our Universe (M-theory), which therefore would cause the net energy in our Universe to fluctuate over time. Who knows if more of such energy is escaping or entering over time. So I wouldn't consider our Universe a close system, and definitely not at equilibrium.
PL
Thank you for the answer. This is my conclusion. Skip Randi. You won't have any success there.
Infinite regression is a construct with use mathematically yet attempting to reason with it leads to absurdity. That's my 2 cents. No charge.
Bessler007
Paul, have you ruled out dielectric absorption?
DIODE ARRAY hooked up in series, REALLY. might power a pocket calculator some day but not anything powerful. IF truly this energy is CREATED by the array, since a diode itself does not create energy, it must be built on the scale of the power it is generating. you might be able to get measurable results from such a small array but trying to power an ARC WELDER or even less a microwave or better yet a 40 watt light bulb, the end result is the chip would melt.Power of that magnitude cannot be "created or generated or hypothicated" using a construct that destructs if i hook up a AA battery to it. I AM NOT SAYING YOU DONT HAVE SOMETHING HERE. but hooking up these in larger arrays on a smaller scale is only going to prove my point.
QuotePaul, have you ruled out dielectric absorption?
Good question! I've addressed this in forums, but I don't recall addressing this in my forum. Thanks, I'll add it to my Comments blog section.
To answer the question, yes, I have ruled this out. As you know, dielectric absorption is extremely weak in mylar capacitors. In fact, it's difficult to measure. Here's the control experiment that I have used many times -->
1. Place a fixed and known DC voltage source (AA battery and a resistor divider circuit to achieve the desired DC voltage) across a Mylar capacitor. Place a load across that. This is then connected to the the electrometer.
2. Measure the DC voltage. This is V1.
3. Disconnect the AA battery. Note, the cap is still connected to the load and electrometer.
4. Wait the appropriate time for the capacitor to discharge through the load resistor.
5. Take note of the DC voltage when the it stops decreasing. This is V2.
6. Short the Mylar/load/electrometer-input.
7. Take note of the DC voltage. This is V3.
If there's any measurable DC voltage due to dielectric absorption then it will be equal to V2 - V3. In every case, my Mylar has not shown any measurable dielectric absorption. :)
Also, I have been measuring the diode array just once every four days for awhile. During this period, the electrometer is turned off, and the diode array is inside two layers of metal shielding. The Mylar capacitor is always connected (soldered) to the diode array. So there's no DC voltage to the Mylar capacitor, except for the diode array of course. ;)
PL
QuoteDIODE ARRAY hooked up in series, REALLY. might power a pocket calculator some day but not anything powerful. IF truly this energy is CREATED by the array, since a diode itself does not create energy, it must be built on the scale of the power it is generating. you might be able to get measurable results from such a small array but trying to power an ARC WELDER or even less a microwave or better yet a 40 watt light bulb, the end result is the chip would melt.Power of that magnitude cannot be "created or generated or hypothicated" using a construct that destructs if i hook up a AA battery to it. I AM NOT SAYING YOU DONT HAVE SOMETHING HERE. but hooking up these in larger arrays on a smaller scale is only going to prove my point.
I would have to disagree. The energy comes from ambient thermal energy, which is continually sustained by Solar energy from our Sun. Most matter on Earth has over 1 billion joules of energy per cubic meter (3.28ft x 3.28ft x 3.28ft). Water has more. This is ambient thermal energy. For metals, the free electrons contains most of the such energy. In fact, in this forum I've shown the math of how the calculated KE + PE per free electron for three degrees of freedom is almost exactly equal to the calculated total energy according to the specific heat capacity. The reason being is that most of the ambient thermal energy goes to the free electrons.
Also, according to my calculates, shown on my website, using conventional small signal semiconductor mathematics, which is based on quantum physics, a heavy doped n-InSb Palladium Schottky diode with a contact area of 30nm x 30nm would produce over
4100 Watts/m^2 across a matched load. Compare such a chip to standard solar panels that produce 50 Watts per square meter, which comes to ~ *17 watts per square meter* when consider the average power per entire 24 hour day, while averaging the entire year, in a sunny location such as sunny Southern California. Solar cells would be no match for diode chips, as diode chips could produce far more power, continuously day and night, at any location on Earth.
As far as the chip melting, no, the opposite is the problem because the diode array chip would want to freeze since we're moving *ambient* thermal energy away from it. Fortunately, for nearly all applications, such energy is returned via the environment. For example, the device moves ambient thermal energy from the chip to say your computer. Your computer gives of that energy in the form of heat. This heats up the environment. So we have a hot (computer) and cold (diode chip) area. The heat will continually conduct to the cold area. This forms a macro scale circular flow of energy.
If the diode chip is small relative to the amount of energy that is flowing, then the simple solution is to flow either air or liquid over the diode chip to maintain a near ambient temperature.
PL
In the email sent to the Randi organization, I tried to minimize the amount of evidence so as to not scare them away. Hopefully Randi is sincere in that he wants to give the challenge money to a legit researcher, but he seems a bit of a warrior type, and may not want to give up the money.
I hope they allow me to enter my perpetual motion machine of the 2nd kind in his challenge!
PL
Quote from: Bessler007 on December 30, 2008, 11:51:16 PM
Thank you for the answer. This is my conclusion. Skip Randi. You won't have any success there.
Infinite regression is a construct with use mathematically yet attempting to reason with it leads to absurdity. That's my 2 cents. No charge.
Bessler007
Bessler007, I would agree that if a well funded group or some USA military compartment had reasons for not allowing global "free energy" technology, then my chances of succeeding are slim and none. We'll have to see. I can't imagine my diode arrays producing a DC voltage for 12 months so far, and then suddenly fail the moment Randi arrives. Who is he, some dark Master? ;D
BTW, still no reply from the Randi organization. They claim within 24 hour replies. It's getting close to 24 hours already. Perhaps they had to contact Randi for this one.
PL
p.s. - Don't worry. I *will* be prepared for anything they throw my way. :D
Look, here's what it's going to come down to. If your device generates energy by capturing ambient heat, well, there is nothing supernatural going on. There are clocks that work off of that. You capture some heat, and the temperature in the room drops a little bit. No overunity, no real perpetual motion in the pure sense. You are using energy from the Sun in an indirect way.
If the device generates energy on its own, then you have something supernatural, and Randi may be interested.
Quote from: utilitarian on December 31, 2008, 03:57:44 PM
Look, here's what it's going to come down to. If your device generates energy by capturing ambient heat, well, there is nothing supernatural going on. There are clocks that work off of that. You capture some heat, and the temperature in the room drops a little bit. No overunity, no real perpetual motion in the pure sense. You are using energy from the Sun in an indirect way.
If the device generates energy on its own, then you have something supernatural, and Randi may be interested
utilitarian,
There are three kinds of perpetual motion machines. A machine that captures ambient thermal energy violates the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, and is called a perpetual motion machine of the 2nd kind.
Randi and as many scientists as he wishes to bring along are more than welcome bring as much thermal insulation as they like. I've been there, done that. The diode array will continue to produce DC power across the load.
I'm starting to think that Randi and his team will not have the guts to challenge my diode array because it's backed up the yin yang with conventional mathematics, the best available conventional small signal semiconductor mathematics, which is based on quantum physics, and not to mention 12 months of real measurements.
BTW, it's been 23.5 hours since my email. No reply yet. I'm a bit anxious! :D
PL
Paul, good luck...
Peace
C-rad
@Paul
I've been following your posts on this device and find it very interesting.
What I was wondering is if this concept will work with high speed switching diodes or signal diodes as they are also called.
If so then why don't you purchase a few thousand of them and connect them together.
That would give you more output and thus more energy to measure and test.
Those signal diodes are very cheap.
Future Electronics sells them in packs of 3000 for less then 1 cent a piece. So 3000 would only cost $30.
http://www.futureelectronics.com/en/technologies/semiconductors/discretes/diodes/switching/Pages/3289071-MMBD4148.aspx?CrossPart=
Thanks for the info. I just ran a sim on those diodes and they would produce ~ 11 to 12 time less DC voltage than my SMS7630 microwave diodes. Also, the SMS7630 diodes are ZBD's (zero bias diodes), which means they have extremely low resistance at thermal equilibrium, which in the case of the diode array equates to more power. Consider the DC voltage alone comes to 11.5^2 = 132 times less power, and I'd imagine the SMS7630 are at least a few hundred times less in resistance.
The low zero bias resistance of the SMS7630 diodes means that one could place more of them in-series. Remember, a voltage meter has a limit on input resistance.
The SMS7630 is made by Skyworks Inc. I'm aware of only one macro size diode that's better, and it's a special order by the same company.
That's not to say the diodes you referred to aren't good. Heck, they would kick a** on most diodes, but it's darn hard to beat the Skyworks Inc. microwave diodes. They're just amazing in terms of macro size diodes. I think the SMS7630 is probably the best diode in terms of diodes that you can solder. Although I hear what you're saying. They are 1 cent each? I think the SMS7630 come to about 15 cents each at those quantities.
The next step is definitely to diode array *chip* consisting of microscopic diodes. What's great about chips/wafers is that we're no longer dealing with diode count. Why? Because the entire chip/wafer is made all at once, per layer. To make an entire diode array would require a few layers. So each layer is made *all at once.* The semiconductor fabrication process is akin to developing a photo. My rough calculations come to 4100 watts/m^2 using heavy doped n-InSb Palladium Schottky diode with a contact area of 30nm x 30nm.
Also, making diode array chips is far far easier than ordinary logic chips because the diode array chip could have numerous shorts and open-circuits and still work. I would arrange the microscopic diodes on the chip such that a few hundred diodes are *first* in-series. We'll call that a diode line, as none of the diodes are directly connected in-parallel. Then there would be billions of such lines. If one of the diodes shorts out, then that diode simply does not operate, but it doesn't break the diode line. If one of the diodes is an open-circuit, then that entire line doesn't work, but there are billions of other diode lines. :)
I'm very confident the first fabricated diode array chip will work. Such chips should cost perhaps a bit more expensive then a solar cell, *but* a solar cell in sunny California on a yearly average would produce maybe 17 watts/m^2, while a diode array chip could produce 4100 watts/m^2. So diode array chips are expected to be far more cost effective per watt than solar cells.And besides, solar cells don't work too well at night, or indoors, or in bad weather.
A diode array chip will work anywhere, anytime. This will create unimaginable new technologies available to the public. For example, there are high performance compact electric motors that could easily produce enough lift for an air turbine to quickly accelerate a person straight up in the air, fly around, but we don't have the batteries to support such power for very long, and batteries are heavy. A stacked diode array chip could provide sufficient power to achieve this.
PL
Quote from: PaulLowrance on December 31, 2008, 04:52:37 PM
utilitarian,
There are three kinds of perpetual motion machines. A machine that captures ambient thermal energy violates the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, and is called a perpetual motion machine of the 2nd kind.
Here is a description of the second law of thermodynamics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_law_of_thermodynamics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_law_of_thermodynamics)
There is nothing about an invention which captures ambient heat that violates this law. One critical part of the law is the concept of the isolated system. Given the Sun is part of the equation with your device, could you please define the scope of your isolated system? Does it include the Sun? If not, why not?
Quote from: utilitarian on December 31, 2008, 07:33:29 PMHere is a description of the second law of thermodynamics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_law_of_thermodynamics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_law_of_thermodynamics)
There is nothing about an invention which captures ambient heat that violates this law. One critical part of the law is the concept of the isolated system.
Because the WikiPedia page on 2LoT does not cover the perpetual motion aspect. First of all, it's called ambient *thermal energy*, not "ambient heat." Second of all, yes, a perpetual motion machine of the 2nd kind is one that would capture ambient thermal energy -->
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion#Classification
Quote from: utilitarian on December 31, 2008, 07:33:29 PMGiven the Sun is part of the equation with your device, could you please define the scope of your isolated system? Does it include the Sun? If not, why not?
In real life there is no such thing as a perfect isolated system, as it would require *infinite thermal insulation* to achieve such a state. The concept of "thermal equilibrium" used in the laws of thermodynamics mathematics is a fictitious concept that has no basis in reality given it is impossible to have infinite insulation. For this reason it is well noted by physicists specializing in the field of thermodynamics that it is imperfect. The laws of thermodynamics is a system of averages, not meant for microscopic analysis. Dr. Landau's textbook, Statistical Physics Part 1, discusses this in detail.
The diode array requires natural occurring microscopic temperature gradients (ambient thermal energy) that *must* exist in all matter.
PL
Dear utilitarian,
The closest aspect to a closed system in the diode array would be each diode. Perhaps that is what you were getting at, but then again there's no such thing as a perfect closed system.
PL
Quote from: PaulLowrance on January 01, 2009, 03:02:09 AM
Dear utilitarian,
The closest aspect to a closed system in the diode array would be each diode. Perhaps that is what you were getting at, but then again there's no such thing as a perfect closed system.
PL
I guess what you are left with then is showing how there is no transfer of heat from the hotter reservoir to the cooler reservoir. I don't expect you to do this on this board, but that's what strikes me as a challenge for you going forward, if you want to show violation of the 2nd law.
And I do wish you the best in this, and I will not be unhappy to be proved wrong, but I think there is a tremendous amount of work left. With the volume of effort that went into establishing the 2nd law, you have no easy task. If you can even get JREF or any scientist to take you seriously, you will need to prove up every element of what you are claiming in painstaking detail.
So you know, JREF no longer takes all comers. The reserve a right to focus on the more notorious/publicized claims. You do have the advantage of having a working model, but that is just the start of it.
Thanks utilitarian. I would agree that downfall of my present diode array is that it requires more than a few minutes of up close real life analysis to see that it could very well be violating the laws of thermodynamics. I understand that people just don't drop/throw-away everything they firmly believe in. The claims of my diode array are difficult to accept. Although, if Randi is sincere, and *wants* to reward a legitimate scientist who has broken the laws of thermodynamics, who legitimately has a perpetual motion machine, then IMO he would take the time to have some scientists analyze my device. They will discover, as I have, that the DC power produced across the load is not coming from any temperature gradient that can be removed. Well, at least by insulation. Of course they could drop liquid nitrogen, but that's only removing the thermal energy, while not dealing with the *natural* occurring temperature gradients that always exists in matter at room temperatures. If for example the DC voltage was due to a temperature gradient from say the Earth to one of the walls in the room, then the DC voltage polarity would reverse if the diode array was rotated. Or it would reverse in 12 hours when the Earth was colder than the wall. That has never happened. Also, the diode array is surround by two metal shields. Metal is high thermal conductor, to keep the temperatures even around the entire diode array. Also, the diode array is inside an oil bath, something that EE's highly recommend.
I'm hoping that Randi would gather some scientists, that he trusts, to bring their instruments and analyze the diode array, and also to see that the mathematics, based on conventional physics, shows the diode must rectify ambient thermal noise. If Randi refuses my diode array, then IMO his intent is just to debunk, not to discover the truth. I don't think Randi will accept my diode array perpetual motion machine in his challenge. IMO that is wrong. Just look at his web page on perpetual motion machines. According to conventional physics, my claim is a perpetual motion machine of the 2nd kind, period. Randi should then either refine his application to exclude 2nd kind perpetual motion machines, or he should accept my diode array. I would have no choice other than to ask Randi to do one or the other. If he refuses then it's my right to take this news to the media.
PL
A few minutes ago I just sent the following email to the Randi organization. I have been using my Google email account to send such emails to challenge@randi.org
QuoteDear Randi organization,
Three days ago I sent my email regarding my Perpetual Motion machine being entered into your challenge. Could you please reply to my email. Conventional physics *clearly* defines my diode array claim as a Perpetual motion machine. Here's my email -->
[snipped my original email that was posted three days ago at this forum]
Will this be the first legitimate Perpetual Motion machine that Randi denies in his challenge? That's not right. If he knows my diode array has a high chance of succeeding, and he does not want to lose his one million dollars, then that's very shady. :(
The other day I came across this thread at the Randi forum -->
http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1935624&postcount=16
As you can see, the web page title for the above thread at the Randi forum is "Diode Array challenge to the Second Law of Thermodynamics." Charles M. Brown started a few threads about diode arrays at the Randi forum. Obviously Charles did not enter a diode array into the challenge, and he was made fun it. It appears Randi's followers believe the diode array should be entered into the challenge, thus making fun of Charles M. Brown in the above link. Well, I am not Charles M. Brown, but I have a diode array, and here I am Randall James Hamilton Zwinge. Are you going to deny a Perpetual Motion Machine claim?
PL
If anyone wants to be included in my email exchanges with Randi's organization, CC'd, then please contact me -->
http://greenselfreliantenergy.com/contact/
Please let me know if you want to CC'd or BCC'd.
PL
Quote from: PaulLowrance on January 02, 2009, 11:01:22 AM
A few minutes ago I just sent the following email to the Randi organization. I have been using my Google email account to send such emails to challenge@randi.org
You heard many opinions of the different people about engaging in The Randy Challenge.... But It's up to you to decide.
If I were you and If I would be convinced that I have a revolutionary technology worth billions..., I'd never "sold it" to an "orthodox skeptical organisation" for "just" a million...
Check out the legals of the Randy org.
Quote
Will this be the first legitimate Perpetual Motion machine that Randi denies in his challenge? That's not right. If he knows my diode array has a high chance of succeeding, and he does not want to lose his one million dollars, then that's very shady. :(
"Your" diode array is not a novelty at all... Why don't you understand that??? Similar claims are periodical stuff, quite often since the
late 50's ... Or, since the dawn of semiconductor technology...
Perpetual motion? I think I was just one of the people who told you (agreed with you?) that your device (if working in accordance with your claim), would be a 2nd Law breaker (at the very beginning).... Using an ambient thermal energy without a necessary drain / (potential difference)....
Remember the Maxwellian Daemon? This should be a cartoon version of what your claim really is....
I'm at the "FE scene" for a decade or so, and I remember that there were
many similar claims being made just in the last few years...
Long before this OU site, there were already a great discussions about this subject... (I can tell you, an expensive business at the time of the analog modems and "BBS's").... And, nothing of value came from those claims so far...? Probably because of the suppresion? ::) Or, maybe, because the thing is not working as it is supposed to?
I think The "Randy.org" dealed with a few similar claims in the past... Just as an "application", of course.
Most of the challengers dropped out of the next step - "full test" very soon after the challenge was "officially" presented....
After all, a classical thermodynamics is a
very well understood (and thoroughly verified) subject....
Quote
The other day I came across this thread at the Randi forum -->
http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1935624&postcount=16
As you can see, the web page title for the above thread at the Randi forum is "Diode Array challenge to the Second Law of Thermodynamics." Charles M. Brown started a few threads about diode arrays at the Randi forum. Obviously Charles did not enter a diode array into the challenge, and he was made fun it. It appears Randi's followers believe the diode array should be entered into the challenge, thus making fun of Charles M. Brown in the above link. Well, I am not Charles M. Brown, but I have a diode array, and here I am Randall James Hamilton Zwinge. Are you going to deny a Perpetual Motion Machine claim?
PL
Yes, I am just one of the people who can easily object your claims. In fact, after a few posts where I presented some objections (you did dismissed most of them without answering), I am sure you're a nice & good pearson , intriguing, capable, an enthusiast..., but also quite "delusional".... Your "math" presented is just a "one way thicket".... The stuff which suits your reasoning is good... The rest - simply dismiss it...
THERE IS NO A THERMAL (Johnson/Nyqiust) FE ENERGY!
Well, there actually is, but it's not "available" in the way your "diode array" is supposed to work....
I'm sure you'll do the best to oppose this opinion...
Needless to say, you'll need a lot more than a few "microVolts and a few picoAmperes on the multi kiloOhm load" to convince the world or even this community.....
Quote
...
Well, I am not Charles M. Brown, but I have a diode array, and here I am Randall James Hamilton Zwinge. Are you going to deny a Perpetual Motion Machine claim?
Well, if I were You, I'd definitely try to form an "Alliance". C.B. would be my nr.1 choice....
Cheers!
Quote from: spinner on January 03, 2009, 07:36:49 AMYou heard many opinions of the different people about engaging in The Randy Challenge.... But It's up to you to decide.
If I were you and If I would be convinced that I have a revolutionary technology worth billions..., I'd never "sold it" to an "orthodox skeptical organisation" for "just" a million... Check out the legals of the Randy org.
Are you saying Randi would somehow own the diode array rights?
Quote from: spinner on January 03, 2009, 07:36:49 AM"Your" diode array is not a novelty at all... Why don't you understand that??? Similar claims are periodical stuff, quite often since the late 50's ... Or, since the dawn of semiconductor technology...
I have discussed that ages ago at other forums. The work done in the 50's was theoretical, and consisted of no real experiments that would have shown any positive results. There are two people in history that have built diode arrays that according to the mathematics would provide a detectable DC voltage. The other day I finally convinced Tom that his 1N34A diode array measurements were conclusive in that the diode produced a DC voltage. As I have told Tom, since his diode array is appreciable large, his next step would have been to test his diode array in rural areas. Charles M. Brown also claims his 1993 diode array produced a DC voltage.
I have made it clear that my diode array is the first in history that has proven to produce DC power across a load while taking into consideration the precautions. It includes the exact part #'s and instructions to build the diode array, first stage electrometer, the fiber optics cable that goes to a photodiode and second stage voltage amplifier circuit. That is indeed unique, as you cannot find any such designs that shows every detail where anyone at this very moment can replicate this perpetual motion machine that will produce positive results, a DC voltage across the load.
Quote from: spinner on January 03, 2009, 07:36:49 AMI'm at the "FE scene" for a decade or so, and I remember that there were many similar claims being made just in the last few years...
Long before this OU site, there were already a great discussions about this subject... (I can tell you, an expensive business at the time of the analog modems and "BBS's").... And, nothing of value came from those claims so far...? Probably because of the suppresion? ::) Or, maybe, because the thing is not working as it is supposed to?
You lack detail. Charles M. Brown, Tom Schum, and myself are the only people with diode arrays.
Quote from: spinner on January 03, 2009, 07:36:49 AMI think The "Randy.org" dealed with a few similar claims in the past... Just as an "application", of course.
Most of the challengers dropped out of the next step - "full test" very soon after the challenge was "officially" presented....
After all, a classical thermodynamics is a very well understood (and thoroughly verified) subject....
It is a macro system of averages that has a known error rate at smaller scales, period. See my website for details.
Quote from: spinner on January 03, 2009, 07:36:49 AMYes, I am just one of the people who can easily object your claims. In fact, after a few posts where I presented some objections (you did dismissed most of them without answering), I am sure you're a nice & good pearson , intriguing, capable, an enthusiast..., but also quite "delusional".... Your "math" presented is just a "one way thicket".... The stuff which suits your reasoning is good... The rest - simply dismiss it...
If you think my math is flawed then by all means stop waving your hands and show the errors along with the correct math. Lets see your math that shows diodes produce 0 (zero) DC volts from thermal noise. You cannot because the best conventional semicondutor mathematics, which is based on quantum physics, clearly shows that diodes must rectify ambient thermal noise. I'll be waiting for your math, but I won't hold my breath. I'll give you four days, until which I'll have to declare you as delusional. So far you are hand waving. A bunch of claims that even a three year old could make.
Quote from: spinner on January 03, 2009, 07:36:49 AMTHERE IS NO A THERMAL (Johnson/Nyqiust) FE ENERGY!
Well, there actually is, but it's not "available" in the way your "diode array" is supposed to work....
Hand waving. Bunch of baseless non-mathematical claims. Show your math. I've shown my math at my website.
Quote from: spinner on January 03, 2009, 07:36:49 AMI'm sure you'll do the best to oppose this opinion...
My best? I don't need to, since I am a scientist, and scientists are interested in mathematics and/or real experiments. Not ambiguous yackity yack claims from people such as yourself.
Quote from: spinner on January 03, 2009, 07:36:49 AMNeedless to say, you'll need a lot more than a few "microVolts and a few picoAmperes on the multi kiloOhm load" to convince the world or even this community.....
Why don't you let real scientists make their own decisions. You know ... people who know how to easily measure 20uV DC.
PL
Quote from: PaulLowrance on January 02, 2009, 11:01:22 AM
Obviously Charles did not enter a diode array into the challenge, and he was made fun it.
I think that thread was overall pretty respectable - people took one or two skeptical jabs to start but it got worse as Charles Brown was evasive and vague. He didn't have any answers and couldn't identify 'Forrest Laboratories' the alleged tester under which he received positive results in 1993. So the test didn't rule out RF, thermal or terahertz radiation effects per the thread. The guy sounds a bit delusional frankly.
I wonder if this stuff is patentable with so much prior art. Brown aka http://www.diodearray.com/ has a 1973 patent (expired) and there is also the "Nova Institute" thermo electric chips described at http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:NOVA_Thermal_Electric_Chips.
Paul, have you had your results verified by a laboratory?
QuoteI think that thread was overall pretty respectable
You left out the link. I don't think the following is respectable at all -->
http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1935624&postcount=16
Quoteand there is also the "Nova Institute" thermo electric chips described at http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:NOVA_Thermal_Electric_Chips.
The nova chip is different, as it converts low heat to electricity. Diode arrays don't require a macro scale temperature gradient except for microscopic temperature gradients that are impossible to get rid of at room temperatures.
QuotePaul, have you had your results verified by a laboratory?
What exactly would you consider a lab? I have a lab in the house.
PL
Quote from: PaulLowrance on January 03, 2009, 07:59:11 PM
You left out the link. I don't think the following is respectable at all -->
http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1935624&postcount=16
You must be pretty thin-skinned then.
Quote
What exactly would you consider a lab? I have a lab in the house.
Independent, with a couple of Phd's on staff.
QuoteIndependent, with a couple of Phd's on staff.
No, but I've had two Senior EE's who meet your qualifications who have taken a look at my electrometer circuit. One of the Senior EE's specializes in measuring low voltage and current. Actually, I'll let you in on a secret. Shhh, but it's not my circuit. The circuit is found inside the Burr-Brown datasheet. LOL, I'm just playing with you. I've posted that before. I'm using the exact same circuit as shown in the Burr-Brown datasheet with their professionally designed op-amp. The DC voltage I'm measuring is legit.
Anyhow, if you know of such a lab out here in southern California who'll test the diode array for free, then by all means let me know. First, I need to find out if Randi is going to deny my perpetual motion claim or not. As far as I'm aware, he's never denied a perpetual motion claim yet. I have a sneaking suspicion this Randi ride is going to get bumpy. If the Randi org ignores me or denies me, then I'm taking the story to the media.
PL
Quote from: PaulLowrance on December 30, 2008, 05:33:14 PM
Here's the email I am sending to the Randi organization -->
+++++++++++
Dear Randi organization,
I would like to enter my diode array into the $1M Randi challenge, but I have questions, if you don't mind. Perhaps they're answered somewhere on your site, but I was unable to find them.
A quick introduction to my device. I have soldered 156 diodes in-series, and then placed a Mylar capacitor across that (the entire diode array). That is it. The diode array is contained in sufficient metal shielding. Also, as advised by scientists, the diode array is presently contained in a mineral oil bath. Mineral oil is the standard/common type of oil used for temperature sensitive testing. The oil bath eliminates all measurable effects that small temperature gradients may have on the diode array. The diode array, for example, produces a measurable DC voltage, depending on the room temperature, the resistance load across the diode array. I have been logging the diode array DC voltage over the past few months. Last night the measured DC voltage was 23.9uV (0.0239mV) DC across a 2M ohm load. That is not going to power anything, but it proves the concept. Please make no mistake that measuring 23.9uV DC across a 2M ohm load is not a difficult task, a task that any competent EE (Electrical Engineer) could easily handle. So, that's not much power, but it still violates the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics nonetheless! Furthermore, the mathematics shows that a diode array made of microscopic diodes could produce thousands of watts per cubic meter. That is continuous non-stop power, day and night, 365 days per year. This technology is well worth investigating.
I am certain Randi and his organization would be more than happy to pay the $1M challenge money to a legitimate science researcher. It is my intent to use the money to further my diode array research, to build a diode array *chip* that would produce usable amounts of power; e.g., provide all of the electrical power needs for a home.
Some questions:
1. Where is the application for the perpetual motion machines? I saw one application, and it was concerning "psychic, supernatural or paranormal claims."
2. There are three kinds/classifications of perpetual motion machines. My diode array is considered a perpetual motion of the 2nd kind. Every scientist I've asked said my diode array would violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics. Please advice if my diode array qualifies for the one million dollar Randi challenge. The first and second kind of perpetual motion machines violate the Laws of Thermodynamics. For details on the three kinds of perpetual motion machines, please read -->
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion_machine#Classification
3. What is the *entire* process? Lets presume that Randi comes here and sees the diode array producing a DC voltage across a load. Then what happens?
4. At some point am I *required* to give or loan you my diode array? I am willing to let scientists analyze the device as long as they want so long as I am present. If they believe I have some hidden transmitter, then they can hand me some binoculars so I can watch far away. I am willing to travel to any safe location so long as I can afford it, or if I am paid for travel, room, and board.
5. Presuming that I win the challenge, I would need to know the maximum time it would take from the point where Randi sees the device to when I would actually receive the one million dollars. My main concern is that it would require years of having the device validated, and require a lot of my time before actually receiving the one million dollars.
6. Is the one million dollars paid out all at once, or is it paid on a monthly basis, or what?
+++++++++++
It's been close to a week now, and still no email reply from the Randi organization. Perhaps it would help if other people sent an email to the Randi organization about my diode array.
PL
Quote from: PaulLowrance on January 03, 2009, 08:24:12 PM
Anyhow, if you know of such a lab out here in southern California who'll test the diode array for free, then by all means let me know. First, I need to find out if Randi is going to deny my perpetual motion claim or not. As far as I'm aware, he's never denied a perpetual motion claim yet. I have a sneaking suspicion this Randi ride is going to get bumpy. If the Randi org ignores me or denies me, then I'm taking the story to the media.
There are plenty of labs in SoCal, but I doubt anyone is going to test it for free. Why won't you pay for a test?
Why don't you start a thread on the Randi forum asking for input on your device and noting you have entered it in the challenge.
I'm sure there are hundreds of disgruntled Randi claimants. I highly doubt mainstream media is going to pay attention.
Quote from: wizardofmars on January 04, 2009, 01:37:21 PMThere are plenty of labs in SoCal, but I doubt anyone is going to test it for free. Why won't you pay for a test?
Cost money. I'm broke. You seem to have this fictiscous idea that I am trying to make money with my diode array. How many times must I post this, that by far, by a long shot, my entire focus is on achieving global "free energy," and that in terms of myself the priority of making money is considered
ZERO. If I make money on perhaps an improved version, say version 1.1 or 2.0, then great, but read my lips please, my entire interest and focus is on helping all life on this planet. If there was a magic button that would guarantee global "free energy," but it would cost my life, I would press it!
If you or someone else wants to flip the bill to have it tested out here in southern California, then I'll be there in a heartbeat.
Quote from: wizardofmars on January 04, 2009, 01:37:21 PMWhy don't you start a thread on the Randi forum asking for input on your device and noting you have entered it in the challenge.
I've seen how they treated Charles M. Brown. I have very little interest in a known hardcore debunker's website. A biased state of mind is destructive. I'm done with debunker forums.
Quote from: wizardofmars on January 04, 2009, 01:37:21 PMI'm sure there are hundreds of disgruntled Randi claimants. I highly doubt mainstream media is going to pay attention.
Please name one perpetual motion machine claimant that was refused by Randi's organization? I'm certain a lot of media would be interested in that *if* I made enough noise.
PL