Hi all,
After reading all I found about Captain Hans Coler work, I decided to replicate his Magnetstromapparat (Magnet Power Apparatus) and after I will do the Stromerzeuger. Thanks to pese for the most than welcome info on this little marvel. Don't know if it will work but if I won't know if I don't try.
Here are the first pictures of my replication of the magnetstromapparat. The setup is not finish and still a few things to do before the tests start.
Enjoy,
Michel
The schematic of the unit.
@Michel,
Nice work! It's clear from your photos how you intend to tune it too, sliding the boards in and out. Keep us posted.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org http://wsminfo.org
Hi all,
Just done with the tuning coils for the magnetstromapparat, it does look similar and just as big as the one used in the first picture. Only one section of the unit to replicate (Rys.4). Back to the pencil and paper. :)
Take care,
Michel
@Michelinho
Nice work, I wish you all the best and will be following your work..
EDIT : Double Post:
Michel
If RYS.1 is a detailed drawing of the magnets/windings and RYS.2 is the layout of those magnets arranged in a circle and at the bottom of drawing of Rys2 is a adjustable bifiller air cored transformer which could be a step up or a step down type then?
There are also some very unclear points about Res.1 . The central bindings are soldered the outer bindings are not, so at least the central bindings are solderable thin wire making them a coil of steel or copper or even some type of silver coated conductive wire. There is no reason to solder the copper wire to a magnet then place a binding over the solder points to hold it in place. That would not hold to the mentality of that period, that is conversely tomorrows artifact of todays thinking.
You have put a bit of work into it and done a fine job I would hate to see you waste your time and your materials. This is the most simple one with least amount of stuff. So may I suggest you re- examine the patent more closely and I do so with respect to your efforts already put into your build. You can also speculate some things about the materials from the Brit report regarding availability during the period of time they mention providing Cooler with the materials to build another unit.
Nice pics Michelinho :D
Good luck with your replication!
Looks like a nice build you've got there. :)
I couldn't really make it out very well on your photos,
so I'll ask: did you use iron magnets and iron wire?
After all, Coler most likely used iron "permanent" magnets
since they were common in his day and things like neodymium
magnets weren't around yet. And obviously the magnets need
to be conductive, ergo: iron. Also, as Steven and I spoke about
recently in one of the other Coler threads here, there's a number
of magnet-coil-setups that share some characteristic elements,
like some Testatika parts for example, and they all use oldfashioned
iron magnets with coils of mostly iron wire around and attached to
the magnets. It would seem that this common element was most
likely also used by Coler. Hence the iron wire question. ;)
Kind regards,
Koen
Quote from: Koen1 on January 30, 2009, 08:02:15 AM
After all, Coler most likely used iron "permanent" magnets
since they were common in his day and things like neodymium
magnets weren't around yet. And obviously the magnets need
to be conductive, ergo: iron. Also, as Steven and I spoke about
recently in one of the other Coler threads here, there's a number
of magnet-coil-setups that share some characteristic elements,
like some Testatika parts for example, and they all use oldfashioned
iron magnets with coils of mostly iron wire around and attached to
the magnets. It would seem that this common element was most
likely also used by Coler. Hence the iron wire question. ;)
Actually, we don't know that the testatika used iron wire for the wiring. That was a speculation on my part due to the similarity with Colers' stromerzeuger and to a lessor extent, the Roy Meyers device. The Roy Meyers device definately used iron wire (I just rechecked) and I thought the Stomerzeuger did too but I just checked again and it looks like I misremembered. The Brittish report says that silver wires were used. Are silver wires magnetizable?
-Steve
http://rimstar.org http://wsminfo.org
Never have come across pure silver magnet steve. Silvered wire would be easier to solder if the wire were fine or thin.Many materials were in short supply during the war partly due to usage partly due to theft.
I disagree that the wires were soldered to the magnets partly due to the level of difficulty partly due to it would just short it out in the end.Any build up of potential would result in heat which weaken the magnets.
Hi all,
QuoteI couldn't really make it out very well on your photos,
so I'll ask: did you use iron magnets and iron wire?
Koen1
I used 1/2"X1/2"X4" iron magnets (homemade). They were drilled at 30mm from one end and 35mm from the other, then awg 20 solid copper wire was jammed in these holes and either exited or was wound around the magnets: 3 like the Rys.1 and 3 with reverse magnet polarity. The wire were not soldered (wooden wedges were used) as this unit is a proof of concept and oxidation wont occur until it is well tested. Too strong a magnet may well be detrimental to the working of the magnetstromapparat.
I thought of iron wire but I think it would divert the magnetic field from where it is active and interacting.
Take care all,
Michel
Quote from: Steven Dufresne on January 30, 2009, 10:26:33 AM
Actually, we don't know that the testatika used iron wire for the wiring. That was a speculation on my part due to the similarity with Colers' stromerzeuger and to a lessor extent, the Roy Meyers device. The Roy Meyers device definately used iron wire (I just rechecked) and I thought the Stomerzeuger did too but I just checked again and it looks like I misremembered. The Brittish report says that silver wires were used. Are silver wires magnetizable?
-Steve
http://rimstar.org http://wsminfo.org
note: reference for the silver wire found while reading up on thermopile development prior to the same period .
"German silver". German silver (better known nowadays as nickel silver) is the generic name for a range of bright silver-grey metal alloys, composed of copper, nickel and zinc; it contains no real silver
http://books.google.com/books?id=teUEAAAAQAAJ&pg=RA4-PA129&lpg=RA4-PA129&dq=german+silvered+wire&source=web&ots=i1vQkkwVFk&sig=F0lO4NK1RLHYjvpZ4VNvT3PsOm8
http://www.rjleahy.com/Store/wire/kwi.htm
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/login.jsp?url=/iel5/51/34304/01636359.pdf?temp=x
http://books.google.com/books?id=kMAUAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA336&lpg=PA336&dq=german+silvered+wire&source=web&ots=VyHj9a28br&sig=_uHZlbv_Xh5LBNUIstfNs6FT3Ew
Quote from: Doug1 on February 02, 2009, 07:03:26 AM
note: reference for the silver wire found while reading up on thermopile development prior to the same period .
"German silver". German silver (better known nowadays as nickel silver) is the generic name for a range of bright silver-grey metal alloys, composed of copper, nickel and zinc; it contains no real silver
That's correct. Although I wonder how relevant it is in this regard... After all, was it also not mentioned in the British report that
Coler built the versions they studied right there on the spot, mostly from materials obtained in Britain itself?
And what type of silver would be most common in post-war Britain, British "sterling" silver, or German nickel "silver"?
I would really expect the Brits to mean actual sterling type silver when they write down "silver", and not a nickel alloy
used by the former enemy...
But of course that's just my opinion, I am not certain, and it is equally well possible that they did indeed not use real silver
at all but rather a siver-coloured alloy such as nickel-zinc-copper alloy for example.
@Steven: Ok, sorry, it is indeed true that the use of iron wire in the Testatika was my speculation and not
an assertion made by Steven, nor actually based on much clear info. I do have a drawing by Geoff Egel if I'm
not mistaken that shows the Linden experiment and clearly mentions a length of iron wire coiled around the
horseshoe magnet, but I do not have any direct info from Baumann on that at all. There are still a few other
magnet-coil-cap setups around that do indicate the use of iron wire coiled around magnets though, and I
personally do think there are a few similarities there. I think it may be possible to use the magnetic resonance
of the iron to couple the spin of the magnet to the oscillations of electrons in the wire, and that this may be
what Coler and a few others did.
I am also still intrigued by Colers remark that the electron should not just be considered as a negative electrical
charge, but also as a south magnetic pole. Very unconventional but an interesting approach... :)
Hi all,
After a week of adjustments when passing by the magnetstromapparat, I have to say that this idea works. It doesn't work as I would like it with the power that I expected but nevertheless it does.
Probably due to the weak magnets that I made, I got a few weak positive output. I tried adding neodynium magnets at the ends of the 6 magnets but no potential ever registered on my multimeter. With the weak iron magnets (homemade) and copper coils, I was able to get once 0.019 volt, 0.011 volt a few times and 0.010 volt quite often with similar settings. It's not much but enough to validate the concept.
Next step will be with cow magnets, I will try to find old ones so they are not neodynium or ceramic based. That might be a tough one. If I can't find any, I'll try to make new iron magnets.
Till something new occurs, I'll work on other projects.
Take care,
Michel
The picture is of the test setup.
Silver is the most conductive material known to man. Where losses due to resistance were critical, silver wires, or silver plated wires were used instead of copper, in applications such as coils in detector circuits where we are dealing with very small currents.
Hans von Lieven
Hi All
In regards to silver wire:
Towards the end of WWII, copper was so rare, actually some airplanes were built using solid silver wires. It would then make it natural that they would have some silver wire on hand to repair damaged airplanes. If copper wire were available, I am sure they would have used that instead.
Salvage companies in the know, had the serial numbers of the airplanes that had silver wire. They would bid for the salvage rights knowing the secret of silver wires inside.
My feeling is that silver wire was used because of the lack of copper wire. No other reason.
Tishatang
HI Michelinho
Nice build. You don't say, but I would suggest you try and get the natural self resonance of the circuits to be around 175Khz to 180Khz. Maybe you could induce the output of a signal generator and sweep through the frequencies? You want the highest output readings to be around 180Khz or so. It could be that physical parameters of your setup is not allowing self resonance to be near that frequency? Once it is tuned to 180Khz, unhook the signal generator and see if you output is higher than what you currently get?
Just an idea.
Tishatang
Quote from: tishatang on February 08, 2009, 03:13:57 AM
Hi All
In regards to silver wire:
Towards the end of WWII, copper was so rare, actually some airplanes were built using solid silver wires. It would then make it natural that they would have some silver wire on hand to repair damaged airplanes. If copper wire were available, I am sure they would have used that instead.
Salvage companies in the know, had the serial numbers of the airplanes that had silver wire. They would bid for the salvage rights knowing the secret of silver wires inside.
My feeling is that silver wire was used because of the lack of copper wire. No other reason.
Tishatang
I doubt that the reason for using silver was a shortage of copper. The common substitute for copper wire in war time was aluminium. If they used silver wire in the planes it was for reasons other than unavailability of copper. Silver in wartime as well as in peacetime is a lot scarcer.
Hans von Lieven
Hi all,
As for the aluminium wire, it is not recomended for use where there is lots of vibrations because it breaks it is also not to be used near salt water. So it could be why the use of silver which was plentiful after cleaning out Europe for precious metal and ware.
QuoteHI Michelinho
Nice build. You don't say, but I would suggest you try and get the natural self resonance of the circuits to be around 175Khz to 180Khz. Maybe you could induce the output of a signal generator and sweep through the frequencies? You want the highest output readings to be around 180Khz or so. It could be that physical parameters of your setup is not allowing self resonance to be near that frequency? Once it is tuned to 180Khz, unhook the signal generator and see if you output is higher than what you currently get?
Just an idea.
Tishatang
Thanks. That is what is said in the British papers and by Aspen also, 179-180 Khz. My signal generator is for audio tests and only goes to 20 Khz so I have to wait for my son-in-law to bring his, meanwhile, I'll do new magnets with a different shape and higher magnetic flux for more tests.
Take care,
Michel
You can use ELOXAL WIRE (if you need Alu)
Electric oxidated Aluminium , IS so fully electric an chemical ISOLATED !!
(See your kitchen aluminium pots enz)
----------------------------
- 150khz such frequencies you can surge out from an
LW cheap transistor radio (used in europe) US i dont know)
the variable Oszillator frequency of this you can simply amplify wth 2 or 3 transitors to
drive some devices.
Also such receivers can use very easy as "controlling monitor" to explore
if your experimenting devices are deliver or transmitting RF (radio frequencies
Good look
G.Pese
Quote from: Michelinho on February 08, 2009, 04:17:28 AM
Hi all,
As for the aluminium wire, it is not recomended for use where there is lots of vibrations because it breaks it is also not to be used near salt water. So it could be why the use of silver which was plentiful after cleaning out Europe for precious metal and ware.
Thanks. That is what is said in the British papers and by Aspen also, 179-180 Khz. My signal generator is for audio tests and only goes to 20 Khz so I have to wait for my son-in-law to bring his, meanwhile, I'll do new magnets with a different shape and higher magnetic flux for more tests.
Take care,
Michel
@Michelinho. My first thoughts were that you had made a galvanic battery where the copper wires join the iron magnets. But if it only works when properly adjusted, then this is not the case. As I recall, there are no diodes in the circuit, so the energy is not from local radio transmitters. It is not going to win any prizes as it stands, but the energy, however small, has to come from somewhere. You are like a man in a strange country who has found a tiny grain of gold. Dont give up, keep searching for the mother Lode. Please share any construction details which were ambiguous in the original plan, e,g, dimensions of transformer, wire size, number of turns etc, anything that will help other replications.
Further to what PESE said, A radio receiver could help here. The frequency of 179 -180 kHz, falls in the old longwave band, If we call it 200 kHz, that is equal to a wavelength of 1500 metres. That is used in the UK for BBC radio 4 , or it used to be. So with the magnetstrom apparat working. tune across the long wave band, and listen for a "plop" noise as you pass over the frequency at which it operates, Your radio dial will tell you the frequency, or wavelength. use the formula 300 divided by wavelength in metres = frequency in MHz.
I have just re-read the original report. It says that Coler agreed to build a small model of the aparatus. The highest voltage obtained was 0.45 volts. Twelve volts is also mentioned, but this may have been on a larger version he had built years earlier. We must not underestimate the time nesessary to adjust it, we are talkind days here. The ultimate answer would be a machine to uatomatically make the adjustments and record the output. His larger device with the 6kw output would obviously be more worthwhile, but the details we have are vague at best. Even if no further advance is made, I have to say congratulations on a brilliant replication
Thanks neptune.
I've made new iron magnets which are a little larger and stronger. 11/16" diam X 4" long cylindrical shape. We will check them tomorrow with the Gauss meter and sort them out. The closest match in magnetic flux strength together for the push-pull stage I-III and IV-VI.
Then new coil setup. Still copper magnet wire since my thumb is still acting after winding a big Stubblefield cell's iron wires. The present coils were coiled with 25 feet of awg 20 intercom solid copper wire ( from an old spool of 18 wires intercom cable ) including the external wires. The new ones will get much more wire, probably 60-70 feet each. I'll make new wood supports so I'll swap setup if need be.
Since the coils are identical, I'll try different capacitors.
I don't know who called it "Free Energy". I'm always working on one thing or another.
Take care,
Michel
This is getting interesting.I am planning to replicate this myself.One problem is knowing what iron or steel to use for the magnets. Ordinary mild steel is probably unsuitable, as it it has low retentivity. I wonder if the physical hardness of steel has any relationship to its retentivity? In the old days, magnets were made of alloys like Alnico, etc. Without having a foundry, we are restricted to modifying off the shelf components. Would high tensile steel bolts work? A voice from my subconscious keeps shouting Silver Steel as used in model engineering, but I don't Know. Coler may have used alnico or similar. What are you using Michelinho? Any suggestions welcome. I am also wracking my brain for a simple mechanism to adjust all the magnets at the same time.
Hi neptune,
QuoteThis is getting interesting.I am planning to replicate this myself.One problem is knowing what iron or steel to use for the magnets. Ordinary mild steel is probably unsuitable, as it it has low retentivity. I wonder if the physical hardness of steel has any relationship to its retentivity? In the old days, magnets were made of alloys like Alnico, etc. Without having a foundry, we are restricted to modifying off the shelf components. Would high tensile steel bolts work? A voice from my subconscious keeps shouting Silver Steel as used in model engineering, but I don't Know. Coler may have used alnico or similar. What are you using Michelinho? Any suggestions welcome. I am also wracking my brain for a simple mechanism to adjust all the magnets at the same time.
My first magnets were made with 1/2" X 1/2" X 4" iron, they had very low magnetic retention. I had to use ceramic or neodynium at one end or both ends depending on tests but the higher output was without booster magnets. Strange...
I tried to magnetize grade 8 bolts and the magnetic retention was better than my first iron magnets. The new magnets use carbon steel and after they were magnetized their field was at 78 Gauss on the south pole and 58 Gauss on the North pole. Not strong but about 10 times better than the old ones and the field strength did not drop after a few hours. One magnet is strong enough to lift another high carbon steel magnet.
So next week I'll wind the coils and restart the tests.
Take care,
Michel
@Michelinho. Please do not destroy your present device, remember it is the first recorded working device for about 55 years. Since we have no idea how it works, it is difficult to try to understand the circuit. People, including me, keep on about this frequency of around 180KHz. If this is relevant, we would be looking for a tuned LC circuit. I would be interested as to what value of capacitors you used, If this tuned circuit exists, and we could identify which of the components form it, we could test its resonant frequency by using a dip meter aka grid dip oscillator. From experience as a Radio Amateur, looking at the coils in the circuit, I would guess at a frequency of say 10 to 30 MHz. Anyone who ever built a long wave crystal set will agree there are nowhere near enough turns of wire here for 180KHz. Maybe the magnets change everything? Who can say, as we don't know how it works. What we need are more opinions and input. If I am wrong Tell me.
Hi neptune,
Quote@Michelinho. Please do not destroy your present device, remember it is the first recorded working device for about 55 years.
I am not destroying the old setup, I will make new magnet holders and simply replace them with the new ones. I keep the old ones intact for further testing.
About the Tuning Coils:
Outer tube: 3 1/2" X 8"
Inner Tube: 3 1/4" X 10"
Magnet wire used: AWG 18
Number of turns on the Outer Coil: 150 turns ~0.9 ohm
Number of turns on the Inner Coil: 170 turns ~0.9 ohm
My son-in-law came yesterday with his Gauss meter and we tested many options. One strange effect we saw that has nothing to do with the magnetstromapparatus and may be applicable or not to a new setup for generating electricity:
Take a "U" magnet and place a neodymium magnet on one pole (serial polarity). Place the keeper on the neodymium magnet like the illustration and turn the keeper... See what happens. (You can wind a coil on the keeper or on the free "U" magnet leg for fun ).
Take care,
Michel
Quote from: neptune on February 26, 2009, 12:50:47 PM
I have just re-read the original report. It says that Coler agreed to build a small model of the aparatus. The highest voltage obtained was 0.45 volts. Twelve volts is also mentioned, but this may have been on a larger version he had built years earlier. We must not underestimate the time nesessary to adjust it, we are talkind days here. The ultimate answer would be a machine to uatomatically make the adjustments and record the output. His larger device with the 6kw output would obviously be more worthwhile, but the details we have are vague at best. Even if no further advance is made, I have to say congratulations on a brilliant replication
Hi,
sorry for just poppin' in, but may I ask if the distance of the coils is a
major part of the time cosuming adjustments?
In the original setup, i do see the 6-legged "spider" with the long holes and screws in it.
There is a mechanical solution to move all of them in and out synchronously.
Is that something, what could help here?
best,
sushi
Quote from: sushimoto on February 28, 2009, 03:52:15 PM
Hi,
sorry for just poppin' in, but may I ask if the distance of the coils is a
major part of the time cosuming adjustments?
In the original setup, i do see the 6-legged "spider" with the long holes and screws in it.
There is a mechanical solution to move all of them in and out synchronously.
Is that something, what could help here?
best,
sushi
Hi sushi moto,
Yes the whole process is time consuming as it is the only thing that will show peak output. It could be done with step motors or linear motors and gears or strap with a programmable chip that would pause and compare various settings position vs electrical output. The tuning has to be done with magnet positioning first and then different tuning coil settings for each magnet movement.
But that would take part of the fun out. ;)
Take care,
Michel
Quote from: Michelinho on February 28, 2009, 01:46:24 PM
Place the keeper on the neodymium magnet like the illustration and turn the keeper... See what happens.
Michel
Hi Michel,
great topic and replication attempt of the Magnetstromapparat ;)... thank you for taking the time to share your work.
For those who don't have a U shaped magnet and keeper, would you mind writing what happens with your U magnet Neo keeper setup :)
Thanks for sharing.
Luc
Hi gotoluc,
QuoteFor those who don't have a U shaped magnet and keeper, would you mind writing what happens with your U magnet Neo keeper setup Smiley
The horseshoe magnet flux density was 320 Gauss for North pole and 200 Gauss for the South pole when first tested.
We added the 1" X 1/4" round neodymium magnet to the North pole arm of the "U" magnet and the reading was 1480 Gauss for the North pole and still 200 Gauss for the South pole (saturation level).
We placed one end of the keeper on top of the neodymium magnet and have a reading of 580 Gauss on top of the keeper and 1460 Gauss under the keeper. The keeper does not touch the South pole by 1/4", it is not attracted or repulse by the South pole of the "U" magnet when standing on top of it.
You turn the keeper with your finger and the keeper goes around like the end on the magnet is fixed to a rotating shaft not on bearings. And when the keeper approach the South pole CW or CCW we felt a slight pull and little resistance when passing or exiting the pole.
When we placed a coil on the South pole arm near the edge, we recorded 0.15 Volts turning the keeper with a finger fast. About 70-80 rpm having to counter the fact that the end was not fixed to a shaft on bearings and the strong pull of the neodymium on the keeper and the North pole arm of the "U" magnet has a braking effect. There is near equal attraction and repulsion going on, a clash of vortexes that impact the coil with a big differential favoring the inside. Like the top of the keeper becomes a weak North pole and under the keeper becomes a strong South pole.
The practical setup, any number fixed of "C", "E" or "U" magnets or ferrites or better around a shaft mounted on bearings. Their ends surrounding the shaft rest on one side of a 2" x 1" x 1/4" Rings neodymium magnet. Their other ends holding coils.
Then the keeper(s) extend to the outer circumference marked by the outside edge of the "C", "E" or "U" magnet(s) or ferrite(s) or others on all sides (may have as many arms as you can efficiently fit). The keeper(s) is(are) fixed to the balanced shaft and wide as the "C", "E" or "U" magnet(s) or ferrite(s) thickness. For more power a mirror image is set opposing the first built using the same shaft and keeper(s). Can be made into a compact and cheap setup.
The same no cog effect should happen with 2 stators, leaving just the Eddy currents to contend with. That would look good with my Newman motor. ;D
Take care,
Michel
My brain wont stop thinking about this device. I now think that the Coler affair was perhaps the greatest lost opportunity in the history of the UK. The money wasted on nuclear energy research would have been far better invested here. If we look again at the technical drawings in the original classified report, they are obviously the work of a professional draughtsman, but not one who had practical experience of building things. The images are perfect, but there is no mention of wire gauge, capacitor values, number of turns, or description of magnetic materials. Did Col er ask for "some magnets" or was he more specific? We do not know. If you ask for magnets in the 1940s you would probably be given the state-of the-art Alnico magnets unless you ask for something else, sat "1% Carbon steel magnets"
. I know very little about magnetic theory, but I believe that the material here is critical. Notice you got better results with weaker magnets. My theory, which may be rubbish, is that the domains need to be stable enough to have some retentivity, but unstable enough to be able to vibrate or flip when it is required.
There are a great number of variables in this set up, Many of which are almost infinitely variable. It is a bit like trying to crack a combination lock with hundreds of wheels. Finding all the optimum settings is like winning a lottery. Michelinho, do you realise how lucky you are to have achieved any output?
Quote from: neptune on March 01, 2009, 07:42:16 AM
My brain wont stop thinking about this device. I now think that the Coler affair was perhaps the greatest lost opportunity in the history of the UK. The money wasted on nuclear energy research would have been far better invested here. If we look again at the technical drawings in the original classified report, they are obviously the work of a professional draughtsman, but not one who had practical experience of building things. The images are perfect, but there is no mention of wire gauge, capacitor values, number of turns, or description of magnetic materials. Did Col er ask for "some magnets" or was he more specific? We do not know. If you ask for magnets in the 1940s you would probably be given the state-of the-art Alnico magnets unless you ask for something else, sat "1% Carbon steel magnets"
. I know very little about magnetic theory, but I believe that the material here is critical. Notice you got better results with weaker magnets. My theory, which may be rubbish, is that the domains need to be stable enough to have some retentivity, but unstable enough to be able to vibrate or flip when it is required.
There are a great number of variables in this set up, Many of which are almost infinitely variable. It is a bit like trying to crack a combination lock with hundreds of wheels. Finding all the optimum settings is like winning a lottery. Michelinho, do you realise how lucky you are to have achieved any output?
Hi neptune,
i do fully agree with all you said.
Thanks a lot for concluding.
Technically, pese could be a great participant btw.
The only thing i would like to complain is, that Hans Kohler (original name, i do believe)
was a great opportunity of the Germans before of '45,
after our "occupists" took control and suppressed everything exept Texan-Oil-Industry&Co
best regards,
sushi.
Hi Sushi. I understand what you are saying about the needs of Germany after the War. What I would really like to see would be Hans Kohlers work benefit the whole of Mankind, as I am sure we all would. It just seems crazy that the UK government would keep this secret for so many years and do nothing with it.
Thank you Michel for taking the time to write about your experiment and ideas of your U magnet Neo keeper setup.
Very interesting!... I hope you continue to study the effects.
Please do keep us informed of the development if you chose to do so.
Thanks for sharing.
Luc
Quote from: neptune on March 01, 2009, 11:24:32 AM
Hi Sushi. I understand what you are saying about the needs of Germany after the War. What I would really like to see would be Hans Kohlers work benefit the whole of Mankind, as I am sure we all would. It just seems crazy that the UK government would keep this secret for so many years and do nothing with it.
You are right and i understood it in the way you described it.
All the hidden findings concerning energy, pollution and such
should belong to mankind instead of governments which are treating findings
as "secret" and for military use only.
... Or to keep "common people" dependent from industrial economy...
-dumb sheeps-
Best regards,
sushi
To Michelinho
Hi,
With a setup like this (not mine)
It will be easier for you to adjust the magnets
Hi albator10,
That replication is nice, too nice as it doesn't work. Too much ferrous or non ferrous hardware to steer the magnetic field. It would be better with nylon screws, threaded rods and nuts plus it is still manual adjustment but more work than the wood sliders and wing nuts. Also the conducting traces under the Plexiglas pass right where the magnetic fields interact. I checked it out when I was researching the Magnetstromapparatus and when I saw that it did not work, I decided to do it like the replication in the first post of this thread.
Take care,
Michel
Quote from: Michelinho on February 28, 2009, 04:33:55 PM
Hi sushi moto,
Yes the whole process is time consuming as it is the only thing that will show peak output. It could be done with step motors or linear motors and gears or strap with a programmable chip that would pause and compare various settings position vs electrical output. The tuning has to be done with magnet positioning first and then different tuning coil settings for each magnet movement.
But that would take part of the fun out. ;)
Take care,
Michel
Hi Michel,
I would not bring in electronics and magnetic motors because these are elements,
which were not available at Kohler's time.
Such elemnts are disturbing magnetic flux in the replication.
I would do it in the way, "tricky gemans" at that decade had done it.
Its a wooden (plexi) disc with "spiralic" inserts. Hard to describe.
best, sushimoto
If you look at the photo in the post by Albator 10, you will see that the wound magnets are mounted on holders or carriers, which have some kind of pins running in slots in the base board. My idea is that these holders would have a wooden projection extending towards the centre of the board, but stopping about 2cm short of the centre point . Now imagine a threaded rod mounted vertically through a hole in the centre of the board. Screwed onto this rod is a cone, with its narrow end at the bottom. As you screw it down, it pushes all the wound magnets appart equally. The magnet holders would each need a spring [or a rubber band ] pulling towards the board centre. The threaded rod and cone would best be wood, plastic, or other non magnetic material. This is the simplest idea I could come up with. On top of the cone, mount a large wheel for easy small adjustments. I own the Anti- copyright on this any anyone can use it if they want.
Quote from: neptune on March 02, 2009, 01:20:12 PM
If you look at the photo in the post by Albator 10, you will see that the wound magnets are mounted on holders or carriers, which have some kind of pins running in slots in the base board. My idea is that these holders would have a wooden projection extending towards the centre of the board, but stopping about 2cm short of the centre point . Now imagine a threaded rod mounted vertically through a hole in the centre of the board. Screwed onto this rod is a cone, with its narrow end at the bottom. As you screw it down, it pushes all the wound magnets appart equally. The magnet holders would each need a spring [or a rubber band ] pulling towards the board centre. The threaded rod and cone would best be wood, plastic, or other non magnetic material. This is the simplest idea I could come up with. On top of the cone, mount a large wheel for easy small adjustments. I own the Anti- copyright on this any anyone can use it if they want.
That would work very well. Great idea to get them all to equally slide out. I'll try to find a cone made of plastic, wood or other material.
Take care,
Michel
@Sushimoto. When you talk about adjusting the magnets using a disk with spiral inserts, I think that you may have some information that the rest of us do not have. Did you get this information from the internet? If you did, then maybe you would like to share it ? kind regards, neptune.
Hi everyone,
Here is an article from "The Electrical Experimenter March 1916":
QuoteSubstitutes for copper in Germany.
So scarce has copper become in Germany, owing to the trying conditions of the war, that substitutes have been found to replace copper wherever possible, especially in electrical plants, where, of course, such large amounts of this valuable metal are used. The new regulations of the German Association of Electrical Engineers cover this saving of copper by the substitution of other metals, notably zinc and iron.
Zinc busbars are advocated, and tables have been worked out for the carrying capacity of same, as well as for zinc bolts and zinc and iron wire. Where zinc is used its low mechanical strength, low elasticity, low melting point and its sensitiveness to high and low temperatures must be taken into account, of course. Wherever iron and steel are used for contacts they must be protected properly by means of zinc plating, lead plating, or else by greasing, etc.
With regard to iron busbars, the rule in the case of direct current for the permissible current is to have the relation of 1 to 2.8 to the permissible current in copper bars of the same dimensions. If the war continues copper will be nearly unknown in Germany. -Elec. World.
Still playing around with the original setup and still tuning. I should get 6 big "U" magnets for the newer version (6" X 3" X 3/4") soon.
Take care all,
Michel
This article is very misleading. When they are talking about scarcity of copper they are talking about unavailability of copper on the open market in the second half of the first world war.
There was plenty of copper in Germany at that time. Pity, virtually all of it was used to produce monstrous amounts of ammunition. Cartridges were, and still are, made of brass (cartridge brass is 30% zinc and 70% copper) That caused the shortage.
So, private experimenters had to made do with substitutes.
This does not really apply to Hans Coler and his devices though. This article is long before his time.
Hans von Lieven
Hi everyone,
Here is a picture of one setup I am currently testing, I don't expect much improvement since all the magnets are not the same size and strength and not touching the iron bars. 2 of those were from old phone generator system.
Today I plan on making the coil winder setup for the new magnets and after the coils are done, a new series of tests.
* Those who are in need of magnet wire, there are some nice ones in computer monitors, the degaussing coils. (Looks like AWG 26 or 28)
Take care all,
Michel
@ Hans,
The article was only for general info. Germany was just as bad after WW1 because of the Versailles Treaty. So the general public probably used those wires for a good while. As for Captain Hans Kohler, I am sure he had special privilege because of his status.
Guys just my 2 cents worth on this..the older magnets uses to produce a lot of "Barkhausen noise".
Colers configuration may have been arranged to series add this internal noise from one magnet into the next. By winding and connecting, he might have been able to "bring into phase the frequency components" to produce a coherent output voltage.
With toroidal structure I think output can be DC whilst inducing currents are DC.
Good luck.
Quote from: smoky on March 23, 2009, 03:56:14 PM
Guys just my 2 cents worth on this..the older magnets uses to produce a lot of "Barkhausen noise".
Colers configuration may have been arranged to series add this internal noise from one magnet into the next. By winding and connecting, he might have been able to "bring into phase the frequency components" to produce a coherent output voltage.
With toroidal structure I think output can be DC whilst inducing currents are DC.
Good luck.
When I started this project, I came across references to the Barkhausen effect, so naturally I did a little reading on the subject. Lucky for us we now have oscilloscopes. It does help in tuning and signal analysis.
Work on this might just get done a lot faster, I have a new helper. Meet Sophie.
Take care,
Michel
In the Coler circuit, the meter depicted at the top could in fact be the circuit shown at bottom right of the diagram.
Where U represents the actual Coler device.
It seems to be a big positive feedback loop circuit, where the signal arriving at the inductor (as part of the meter circuit) would likely be 180 degrees out of phase at each side. So if signal passes thru a certain number of magnet coil assemblies on it's way, there's a certain phase delay occurs at each magnet coil unit (eg if there were 3 magnet coil assemblies to pass thru it's likely that there's a phase shift of 180/3 = 60 degrees shift each at the predominatnt freq.
This way also, a signal travelling right around the loop arrives back at any magnet in phase again to push the oscillation/noise at the right time to enhance it.
Wondering if there's Iron wire used for coil wraps around magnets as it could be the BH hysteresis curve of the wire which saturates & finally collapses giving current pulses?
Probably need's a low freq. Spectrum Analyser to see the main fundamental if any, sticking up out of the noise level.
Apologies for speculation.
Hi smokey,
QuoteApologies for speculation.
No apologies needed since I am too speculating a lot still. :)
The first 2 magnets/coils of each phase could be working in a push/pull configuration and the third magnet/coil rectifying the output signal. The last schematic Rys.4 on the diagram is if I read correctly the British papers a test apparatus.
I will have 3 setups to test and compare; the present one, the other will use similar magnets but bigger and more powerful with bigger coils (probably bifilar), I just finish the coil winder for those. The last setup made up of 6 "U" magnets with coils (bifilar) on each side. I may try a variant if I get higher output and that might take the shape of Ed. Leedskalnin Permanent Magnetic Holders in an hexagonal formation with an additional bifilar coil on the keeper.
Don't stop speculating, it may hold the answer, we never know what the brain can output facing an elusive problem.
Take care,
Michel
Quote from: Michelinho on March 23, 2009, 12:40:42 PM
@ Hans,
The article was only for general info. Germany was just as bad after WW1 because of the Versailles Treaty. So the general public probably used those wires for a good while. As for Captain Hans Kohler, I am sure he had special privilege because of his status.
G'day Michel,
I don't know what the copper situation was just after WW1, a bit before my time. If WW2 is any indication though, and this is from experience because I was there, there was an enormous surplus of copper and zinc as every man and his dog went around the countryside collecting spent cartridges, including me. The stuff was lying around everywhere. The scrap yards had mountains of the stuff. This went on for some years until there was no more left to collect.
Just a bit of wartime trivia :-)
Hans von Lieven
Hi all,
I'm very interested in Michelinho's reproduction of the cohler device and wanted to contact him regarding it.
I am currently trying to replicate one myself and obviously given his success i wanted to compare notes and receive any suggestions he might have.
I tried to PM him but it seems this function is not working at the moment and on researching a bit more it seems he has quit the site?
If anyone can help reach him I would be very grateful!
Thank you,
Giuseppe
I have found a post in the hcrs-forum which said, that he has found out that at the time Mr. Coler constructed his device one of the biggest radio stations of the world was constructed in a country next to germany.
I'm sure you remember all that Coler said that he believed that the power came from the magnets and that magnetism is a frequency of about 180Khz.
Now guess what... the radio station sent with a frequency of ~174 Khz and therefore I also think it is very likely that Coler made some kind of receiver only.
Btw. Coler is not the only guy who made a mistake... e.g. take Roy Meyers - he fell into the same trap thinking he could get energy out from the air. If you really want to dig into this now I wish you good luck.
Hi again,
thanks for that info...could you give me some references for it?
Also if that is the case why would Michelinho's device work as he reported? And why would the cohler device have worked as described in the report...?
In any case, even if what you say where the answer, it would seem to still be worth investigating regardless as it still would seem to be something not properly researched or documented.
G.
Sorry I don't know of Michelinos device, so I can say nothing about it. But here is the post from the forum I found claiming that about the radio station (is in german, sorry) http://forum.hcrs.at/viewtopic.php?p=8509&sid=d67659a47abe85d49745b41df65431af#8509
I thought you would have read the posts on this thread given your reply. I see that is not the case.
I wonder why you felt the need to try to "debunk" Michelinho's device without even reading the thread on which this conversation lies?
I thought open-mindedness here was the general rule given we are all looking at stuff on the edge of commonly taught science.
In any case, as I said, even if the Cohler device produced power from radio-frequencies, that in itself would be quite worthy of investigation so the point is moot.
No it wouldn't be useful, because it is known it has happened before, that people who lived next to radio stations were able to power lights of their garden houses. This action caused an absorption of power from the station and other people got worse radio reception, therefore it is forbidden to do such things now which is quite understandable.
You can try it yourself... take a long wire, put it in the air, some meters up and measure the voltage between ground and the antenna and you will most likely see some milliVolts. It is likely that this "antenna" can be optimized.
I have skimmed now over the previous posts and find nothing worth to mention: 0.011 Volts was the result. I have tried this thing as well and get the same result, sometimes (with a 3meter wire 5meters up in the air hanging around) I got 100milliVolts. I am sure with some amount you could build a LED lamp or something like that, which is interesting.
... but in fact it is not free energy or overunity at all. If the stations are closed, your power will also be off. Therefore not so good idea. Also you should recall that some dozens years ago the radio stations were transmitting with a strong and "dirty" frequency however since cleaning up these frequencies you won't get that huge power anymore people like Koler or Meyers or Moray claimed 60 years ago...
180Kz frequency is very close to the nuclear resonance frequency of iron and the magnet
aligned core we only build a resonant circuit at the right frequency.!
leo48
If it were that easy: wind a transformer coil around a magnet, pulse the input wires with an oscillator by a frequency of 180khz, check the output and you are done. I would be happy if you are successful.
That's the theory but then put it into practice is another thing
Leo48