Quote from: CRANKYpants on June 09, 2008, 06:35:20 AM
COGGING TORQUE RATTLE DECREASES w/ INCREASED SPEED AS WELL - IS THIS WHAT IS OCCURING?

AT ANY RATE THE NEW VIDEOS ARE UPLOADED BUT NOT PROCESSED YET - GOTTA RUN.

CHEERS
Thane

No, it's instantaneous.

I guess though more important that talking about a mere artifact (one removed by correct design anyhow as all are) is talking about the acceleration.

My theory as you know is that the generator creates an aether/bublegum stream that runs through the wire in the coil and through the core, shaft and enhances the motor thanks to it's magic powers or somesuch.

Your theory is that the acceleration force somehow comes from the generator, but so far I have not found you be more specific than that. (not that I'm pointing fingers on issues of specificity)

Do you believe the force to occurs because somehow the HV coils are producing a magnetic field that attracts or repels the rotor in such a way as to create acceleration? Seemingly you must.
If so then that means that the current in the HV coils would not be in the expected phase (unless the stator current isn't producing the stators magnetic field), the expected phase is anywhere from 90 degrees to 180 degrees behind the rotor phase, for acceleration to occur the magnetic field and current producing it must be from 181 to 359 degrees behind the rotor phase (or if you prefer 1 to 179 degrees ahead of it).
This is rather simple to test, the university should be able to lend you an oscilloscope surely, I have one but the experiment is not at the top of my list but it should only take an hour or 2 to work it out.

For comparison you could put a scope on a high current coil, but better yet would be to have something that tells you the precise stator position.

There are a few issues though with the current being anywhere in this region, first is that it is in opposition to the rotors driving field (perhaps though one could claim that the stators core lags rotors field that induces it? but that's hysteresis and minimized by laminated cores) that means that the emf induced by the rotor would constantly be opposing not driving the current in the HV coils leaving a question of just what is driving it.
It would also mean that the HV coil is supportive of the rotors flux, instead of trying to suppress the change of flux created by the rotor it should enhance it if it's anywhere from 181-359 degrees behind, this however is the exact opposite of what is found by looking at the induced field in another (HC) coil on the same core.

The fact that the HC has less voltage when the HV is shorted is a sign that the HV has countered the rotors flux.

Really the fact that it reduces the HC coils voltage means that both are competing with each other for the same inductive flux and that both are in the same general phase.

When I say stuff I make sure I know what I am talking about (and if I don't now I shut up or ask), and there is just no way, about the only way it could happen is if the aether somehow changed repulsive fields to attract or otherwise attenuated the intensity of the repulsion to result in acceleration but still keep the field created by the coils unchanged (because as I say above if the HV coil's field if 179-359 then it would not cause the drop in induced voltage in the HC coil), sounds unlikely though, or maybe the aether applies a non magnetic accelerative force to the generator somehow.

But since any theory posing an exclusively generator sourced acceleration must get past your results (blocking) and Vince's results (torque measurements) and other anomalies that don't make sense (deceleration and max motor speed mostly unchanged) then It seems to me to be more likely to be the force comes from the motor, though I am trying to keep an open mind.

..

Quote from: aether22 on June 09, 2008, 08:20:19 AM

My theory as you know is that the generator creates an aether/bublegum stream that runs through the wire in the coil and through the core, shaft and enhances the motor thanks to it's magic powers or somesuch.

I believe! I believe! 

QuoteFor comparison you could put a scope on a high current coil, but better yet would be to have something that tells you the precise stator position.

WE HAVE SCOPE TESTING SLATED FOR TUESDAY IF ALL GOES WELL.

AS I HAVE POSTED PREVIOUSLY - MY FEELING IS THAT THE HC COILS STORE ENERGY IN THE ELECTROMAGNETIC FIELD (LIKE AN INDUCTOR) AND THE HV COILS STORE ENERGY IN THE ELECTROSTATIC FIELD (LIKE A CAPACITOR)

WHEN THE MAGNET APPROACHES THE HV COIL VOLTAGE IS INDUCED AND THE CURRENT IS KEPT LOW DUE TO THE THE COIL'S HIGH IMPEDANCE. AS THE VOLTAGE IN THE COIL GROWS THE ELECTROSTATIC CHARGE INCREASES AS WELL.

WHEN THE COIL MOVES AWAY THE SHORTED "CAPACITOR"/COIL DISCHARGES THROUGH THE COIL AND PUSHES THE RECEDING MAGNET AWAY WITH ADDITIONAL FORCE.

THAT'S MY THEORY AND I AM STICKING WITH IT FOR NOW.

T

JM - HUBBA BUBBA, BAZOOKA, BUBLEISHOUS OR MY FAVE - HOCKEY CARD GUM?

Quote from: JustMe on June 09, 2008, 04:50:16 PM
I believe! I believe! 

See See!!

I have a few new ideas I have added to my test list.

Diode shorting. See if the HV coil is shorted through a diode if it works at all, I mean a single diode so only half the waveform can exist, try diode both ways.   Very simple test.

Battery shorting. Use a full wave bridge rectifier and then connect a battery as if the generator were charging it, only the battery should already be charged, the aim is to have the battery voltage and the generator voltage equal so no current flows but hopefully the aether still does and creates acceleration with almost no current. (get current as low as possible and measure and compare with current when directly shorted)

Removable coil.   A HV coil on an open core that can be removed as the generator is running, the aim is to see if an open circuit coil helps in the least, admittedly doubtful but possibler, it is worth noting that acceleration has been noted without shorting although if the coil ever played a part is not known.

Make coils that have too few turns at the given speed to get the effect (push through to the motor) but do aetheric things to enhance them.

I would also note that a core made of many more fine steel wires would with fewer turns likely create a swifter aether flow, just as the laminated cores need fewer turns than solid ones.  Is it possible that a fine enough laminate/wire core would need no coil?  (as someone indeed found! though I don't recall who)

Here is the rest of the list:

Pulley isolation of drive motor, then move into redirecting into surrogate devices:

Step 1: Isolate effect from prime mover.
Step 2: Direct effect into second motor (slowed down possibly by a rotor experiencing Lenz drag from HC coils)   
Step 3: Direct effect into second motor from external coils. (coil surrogate)
Step 4: Same but with external coil/s mounted around second motors rotor. (full surrogate, acceleration from shorting second motors stator coil alone must be either non existent or light so an improvement if present is apparent, putting coils in series has been shown to apparently increase the effect, this will tell us if the relative phase of the rotor and main stator component is important)
Step 5: Direct effect into stalled motor and various other tests.

Make new split MOT coils (multitap), with back iron, try to replicate Thanes 'brutal' acceleration. <Made and JB weld is drying as I type

Optical Tach and HV coil resistor on scope experiment to determine magnetic phase of stator to rotor. < I now consider the result of this experiment to most assuredly show that the phase of the HV coil does not differ from what would be expected of a conventional HC coil.based on the reasoning in the previous post I made.

HC coil induction increase. (on shorting HV coils, see if it works when they are on opposite sides of the shaft, if so that give another promising line of experiments)

Closed loop attempt:
Reduce air drag, then measure minimum energy to keep it spinning at high speed without stator present, then try to add stators and have it take less energy with it shorted (as Thane has done), See how many balanced or accelerated watts you can generate, then try and add another identical no net load watt generating rotor stator set. Try to keep the energy input if possible the same as it is with out any rotor at all. (although a vacuum can remove this loss)

Torque sensor, or measuring reaction torque on motor housing. (to verify Vince's results)

Testing alternate motor types to drive the generator.

Rewind a conventional mot/gen to create acceleration on shorting.

Copy Thane, Make a prony brake.  Thane, did you not manage to get it working?


Hopefully by the end on the day I will have done a few of these tests.