Quote from: hoptoad on June 22, 2008, 09:56:33 PM
@JustMe
I think that the effect is created from the same cause/s. I do not think that it is O/U, nor do I think that there is a violation of conservation of energy. I would be glad to be proved wrong. But so far, I'm not convinced that a violation of C of E exists or has been presented.

I wouldn't describe knowledge of this effect as new, but I would descibe the knowledge as being overlooked,  understated, and not openly discussed or presented (taught) in normal electrical curriculums. I regard my own work on this phenomena as a mere footnote to existing knowledge.

I still believe that the effect can be utilised for positive outcomes.

Cheers

It would be worth noting however that hoptoads conclusions do not work if we consider much of the evidence generated by various Thanerators as valid.
We would also need to discount Adam's conclusions and evidence, as well as probably throwing aside basic principles of electromagnetism. (Hopfully I misunderstood him, but he seemed to say in one place that a coils magnetic field can be out of sync with the current producing it!)

Assuming I misunderstood him on that point then I guess you could say there is a slim chance he is right and many results are inexplicably bogus, but it would be a reap leap of faith.

Quote from: aether22 on June 23, 2008, 12:49:46 AM
(Hopfully I misunderstood him, but he seemed to say in one place that a coils magnetic field can be out of sync with the current producing it!)

Assuming I misunderstood him on that point then I guess you could say there is a slim chance he is right and many results are inexplicably bogus, but it would be a reap leap of faith.

Yes, I think you have misunderstood what I was saying about the magnetic field (of the core) being out of phase with the coil current.
Although the changing magnetic field around the wire that forms a coil on the ferromagnetic core is in phase with the wires own current, the reluctance of the ferromagnetic core causes changes to it's own magnetic flux to lag changes in current of the coil (or magnetic field of magnet) producing it.

If flux induced into an inductive ferromagnetic core instantly reached the levels dictated by the current, and then instantly demagnitised when current ceases, and then instantly reached opposite polarity flux levels dictated by current in the opposite direction, then there would be no such thing as a hysterisis loop or BH curve/s in the first place.

But ferromagnetic materials do not instantly change their magnetic flux in direct relationship with either current changes or inducing magnetic field changes, instead, they always lag behind to a degree which is determined by the reluctance / permeability characteristics of the core.

Cheers

Why no video?  Well the effect has left me, and I was going to make a video anyway but I noticed smoke coming from the (300w) motor and so stopped it and am calling it a day (er, night).

I first tried to measure the effect in a different way but the effect didn't appear, so I tried it the old way but the effect didn't appear, maybe the speed was a tad low?, but acceleration was still occurring on shorting the coils only no changes in motor torque either way. (if the generator is creating the acceleration the motor torque would decrease, if the motor creates the acceleration the motor torque would increase, no change really just indicates my means of measuring isn't sensitive enough suddenly)

With these still ambiguous results I am wary of the next planned experiments (isolation) for fear their results will be just as potentially unclear. (acceleration could be explained many ways while even no acceleration would at best only replicate Thanes results which he now discounts, and if he can discount it (not that there is any coherent theory as to how) then what really would my replication prove?)

This makes me want to consider the surrogate experiment next finally where while a negative result won't be definitive a positive (accelerating) result in the surrogate motor would be proof positive without any possible doubt.

I will make a video tomorrow if I can show the effect or not, though if I can't it might just be the most boring video to ever appear on youtube.

QuoteYes, I think you have misunderstood what I was saying about the magnetic field (of the core) being out of phase with the coil current. Although the changing magnetic field around the wire that forms a coil on the ferromagnetic core is in phase with the wires own current

WHO SAYS IT IS IN PHASE?
WHY WOULD A HC COIL BE IN PHASE - AND CAUSE DECELERATION.
AND HV COILS BE IN PHASE AND CAUSE ACCELERATION BUT ONLY ABOVE A CERTAIN FREQUENCY?
MY HUNCH HAS ALWAYS SUGGESTED THE HV COIL'S INCREASED  (PUT YOUR OWN IDEA HERE)
IS CAUSING ENOUGH OF A DELAY TO CREATE ACCELERATION. IT MAY BE A DELAY IN FIELD PRODUCTION
OR CORE LAG ETC - BUT THE EFFECT IS REAL.

REAL ENOUGH TO OVERCOME LENZ'S LAW EFFECTS (AT NO ENERGY COST OR LESS) AND LIGHT THE LIGHTBULB AND DELIVER POWER TO A LOAD WHEN NEITHER OF THESE WERE POSSIBLE PRIOR TO ENGAGING THE HV COILS.

SO BRINGING THESE KINDS OF IDEAS AND RESULTS TO THE LIGHT OF DAY IS NOT EASY AS ANYONE CAN CLEARLY SEE - BUT THE PEOPLE WHO DID SO PREVIOUSLY - DID NOT DO IT WHILE HIDING UNDER A LILLY PAD - BECAUSE THEY PROBABLY THOUGHT AS I DO THAT THE INFORMATION IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THEIR FEAR - MORE IMPORTANT THAN THEIR INFINITELY SHORT (AND OTHERWISE MEANINGLESS) LIVES.

SO DO I RESPECT YOUR RIGHT TO BE ANONYMOUS - NO.
DO I THINK YOU HAVE ZERO CREDIBILITY BECAUSE YOU ARE FEARFUL - YES.
ARE YOU GOING TO DIE - YES
IS LIVING IN FEAR WORSE THAN DEATH - YES

YOUR PERSISTENT COWARDLINESS ONLY JUSTIFIES WHY TERRORISM EXISTS AND CONTINUES - INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH THAT IS THE REAL REASON WHY I AM DOING WHAT I AM DOING.

Thane

Quote from: aether22 on June 23, 2008, 05:03:19 AM
Why no video?  Well the effect has left me [...]

Ach, disappointing.

Quoteif the generator is creating the acceleration the motor torque would decrease

Not so, I'm afraid.  When the generator causes acceleration by reducing losses, the motor torque stays the same.  It is the difference between motor torque and generator back-torque that accelerates the rotor.
So... this result quite contradicts your earlier one.  Do you know what changes you may have made that might affect it?