Quote from: k4zep on July 10, 2008, 12:17:43 AMI will simply say if (baring a Radiant Event from unknown process of huge purportions) a 3 coil transformer hand wound over a nail with nothing but a large limited DC current flowing through 2 of the coils (7 turn and 13 turn)  encasing the 3rd coil (5 turn uninsulated!!!!!)  feeding the HV pulse from the original coil to the plug.......If this can provide a 200X boost in output current through the spark gap, the shifting of timing past TDC and this huge flash,  I'll eat that nail........I have also eaten crow in the past! 

Ben - maybe you should get prepared to eat that nail ...

As I understand it - what is required (after the initial HV low current spark) is a lower voltage high current discharge.  We don't actually know what voltage is needed for this secondary discharge - people are blowing up inverters because inverters are available off the shelf - but we haven't proved we need the voltage to be that high.  Some, including myself, have speculated about connected the 12V directly to the spark plug for the high current discharge.  (Remember - Graneau have given good science that it is Amps that blows the water apart - so at this stage in the process, unnessary voltage multiplication at the expense of current is counter-productive).

So very likely, a rudimentary coil of few turns is exactly what we need ... perhaps he is using multiple discharges at lower and lower volts (with higher and higher current) ...

Don't sneeze at this simple coil arrangement.  In this thread we have no idea who the real information or the real disinformation is coming from.  These coils are so easy a child could build - so try them!

Electrostatic cooling ... wow.  I know Tinu made me out to be a bit of a fool, and that's fair enough.  I don't suppose to know everything there is to be known about water and how it works.  So whatever the right terminology - I am convinced the best energy source is in that low temperature liberation of whatever the hell it's going to be called once mainstream science starts to acknowledge it's existence...

My experiments are going pretty good here. I am using the updated circuit that Luc has posted.
(this one: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5024.0;attach=24621;image)

Thanks for posting this simple, easy to understand diagram Luc.

These are the spark plugs I am using:
http://www.amazon.com/E3-Spark-Plugs-Engine-Garden/dp/B000BPOI8O

My multi-meter showed that they have little to no resistance, so there is no need to modify these. For people who are looking to buy plugs, my advice is this: Use either lawn mower or racing plugs. Neither one should have resistance, but check for resistance and exchange the plug until you have one that has no resistance. Luc, if you could mention this in the first post it might save some people some $ on plugs . Also, try to find plugs that have more surface area like a firestorm plug. The E3 plug has a little C shape at the end of its cathode, so maybe this helps...

Today I increased the gap size and that made a big difference. I think the plug was originally around 10 thousandths, but once I moved it up to 80, then we were really seeing some nice sparks. 80 thousandths is a BIG gap size for a plug. My plug is clearly not designed with that kind of spacing in mind.

I've been thinking about how a water explosion could be possible... I don't know if we want to delve into much theory in this thread or not. I think it should be pointed out though, that gasoline (or hydrogen) explodes because of a chain reaction. I don't see how this could happen with water, but maybe the pressure from the piston makes the explosion possible. I assume all this and more has been discussed in the s1r replication group which I have not been a part of . Maybe the process is like the japanese van that jymboche linked to. The area around the plug would turn to plasma and explode, while the rest expands from the heat.

Quote from: greendoor on July 10, 2008, 04:35:07 AM
Ben - maybe you should get prepared to eat that nail ...

As I understand it - what is required (after the initial HV low current spark) is a lower voltage high current discharge.  We don't actually know what voltage is needed for this secondary discharge - people are blowing up inverters because inverters are available off the shelf - but we haven't proved we need the voltage to be that high.  Some, including myself, have speculated about connected the 12V directly to the spark plug for the high current discharge.  (Remember - Graneau have given good science that it is Amps that blows the water apart - so at this stage in the process, unnessary voltage multiplication at the expense of current is counter-productive).

So very likely, a rudimentary coil of few turns is exactly what we need ... perhaps he is using multiple discharges at lower and lower volts (with higher and higher current) ...

Don't sneeze at this simple coil arrangement.  In this thread we have no idea who the real information or the real disinformation is coming from.  These coils are so easy a child could build - so try them!

Electrostatic cooling ... wow.  I know Tinu made me out to be a bit of a fool, and that's fair enough.  I don't suppose to know everything there is to be known about water and how it works.  So whatever the right terminology - I am convinced the best energy source is in that low temperature liberation of whatever the hell it's going to be called once mainstream science starts to acknowledge it's existence...

Hi greendoor,

A 12V battery is lower voltage but why do you assume it can provide a higher current than a capacitor? If you think that this the case then you are mistaken. Although only for a very short period, a capacitor can easily discharge energy with currents in the thousands of amps. A battery's only advantage here is that it can deliver a high current for a long period of time. But this is of no advantage in this process and has quite the opposite effect of wasting energy. In fact, to do what you are suggesting, simply take any of the previous inverter circuits described in this thread and replace the inverter and capacitor with 2 or 3 12 volts batteries in series. Now reduce the spark plug gap  as small as possible without touching. The circuit will now work and the batteries' current will flow through the arc but it will continue to arc continuously like an arc welder until the batteries' voltage drops. The spark plug gap ends will glow red and if you spray water on this arc there will be no explosion. So energy will be wasted in such a process and you will get very little, if any, water to explode.

Regards,

Ossie

I would like to point out one simple fact:

I can make this effect with a variac or inverter DISCONNECTED/ISOLATED (both terminals isolated) from the capacitor so this rules out 100% for a fact that I am getting any extra high current surge from the power supply.

Some want to believe it can come from a capacitor...(once it is discharged).

What S1R shows with some inverter touching the plug off and on through a relay and then ignition coil off/on...whatever he is showing is NOT the same method as Luc has found. So some are automatically thinking that there is some surge from the power supply to make this spark based on Luc's circuit because of some crossed idea that it is supposed to be the same thing?

Also, has anyone bothered to scope the function of the diode?

I see something that seems to almost be deliberately IGNORED here. My power supply is 100% separated from the capacitor on BOTH terminals when the capacitor is discharged into the spark plug. That means 100% as an undeniable FACT, there is no current surge from my variac or inverter going to the coil when the HV pulse leaves the ignition coil.

So that leaves the capacitor as the only thing connected to the circuit as far as input. Once the capacitor is discharged, there isn't enough to provide any current surge! With a 3uf capacitor, that is 0.0384 joules of work possible (with no losses) if it is charged to 160volts. That is LESS THAN 0.04 watt seconds worth of energy...and if using a 3uf cap, once it is discharged and claiming that there is some current surge from the cap..again AFTER it is discharged will have some current surge that assists this spark...even with a 47uf cap at 160v, that is 0.6 watt seconds or 0.6 joules...and AFTER discharge there is enough for some mysterious current surge??? LOL Well, again...is this DISINFORMATION...there might be enough energy left in the cap AFTER discharge to may raise 1 hair on a flea's leg, but to assist in some robust spark on a plug like we're witnessing???

1. Why do I get the effect without any power supply connected to my cap?
2. AFTER the cap is discharged, why do I get the effect still and do you honestly think there is enough in the cap to give some current surge to cause this effect?
3. HOW DOES A DIODE WORK?
4. Think about VOLTAGE POTENTIAL..........where there is any kind of voltage...that potential is available EVERYWHERE instantaneously wherever it it is in contact with some kind of conductivity as long as it is not blocked. When the arc is happening, the HV potential is available at the exit of the HV diode...what does that tell you?

Hello all!

Only reading this forum for years, finally my first writing! 

Probably a bit offtopic, so sorry for that first...but:
Did we finally (re-)discover the "holy grail" of electronics here?
Powering a single "device" with two powersources. From one drawn high voltage, low current- from the other low voltage, high current.
Here joining them together just before the airgap (sparkplug).

What if you join them together just before a coil? Or an ordinary light-bulb?
How would then the effective power accumulate (From voltage x current (U*I) as Ohm?s Law says)?
If we draw from the hv-source 10 watts (100volts*0.1amps), and also 10 watts from the lv-source (0.1volts*100amps), would the effective combined power on the lightbulb be 20 watts or 10000watts?
Could this somebody try to verify? With an ordinary lightbulb?
Is there even a possibility to "create" such small voltage x huge amperage powersource?

Or is this all garbage? If so, then sorry for that...

Another thing regarding this circuit:

I am certain, that a circuit utilising resonance (between coil and capacitor) would undoubtly need less amount of energy than not in resonance.
Anybody considered that yet? Is it even possible to utilize in this circuit?
Of course this would mean fixed RPM within an ICE, but it maybe a possility in an ICE/generator setup with fixed RPM...


All the best to all of you guys, especially the few who do actually build and test things!