Hi Thane,

If I follow this recipe then do you think I stand a good chance of seeing a Lenz violation?:

(1)
Make a bitoroid core using a high permeability material (coiled metglass tape, width 25mm, thickness 0.04mm).

(2)
Make the secondary big toroid of the bitoroid much taller and fatter than the 2 primary coils so it can handle more flux, this would be done by stacking two metglass tape winds together to yield a 50mm high toroid. Also each layer would have more metglass winds than the primaries, so a big fat secondary!

(3)
Make and mount the three toroids such that the top two primaries are angled up like a roof in order to physically seperate the primary and secondary flux paths.

(4)
Do a 1:1 turns ratio, or in this case 1:1:1. turns and gauge sufficient to handle a power high enough to push the primary toroids well into saturation.

(5)
Power it up with variac and purely resistive load.

(6)
Adjust the input voltage aso that the primaries are just below saturation.

(7)
Measure inp/out and calc PF using 2ch oscope:
   ch1 accross coil for voltage,
   ch2 accross shunt in series for current.

P.S.
Sorry to hassle you with queries.

All the best, Fraser.

Hi Thane,

so how did the professor respond? I read that you were doing some demo on monday?

Greets

QuoteHi Thane,

If I follow this recipe then do you think I stand a good chance of seeing a Lenz violation?:

FIRST OF ALL AS FAR AS I KNOW - FOR A TRANSFORMER TO WORK YOU NEED LENZ'S LAW.
I HAVE UPLOADED OUR NEW COIL DESIGN HERE:  http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NDC0KJ5O
I WILL ALSO SEND IT TO JM SO SHE CAN DO HER THING.

Quote(1)
Make a bitoroid core using a high permeability material (coiled metglass tape, width 25mm, thickness 0.04mm).

I WOULD SUGGEST A LOWER PERMEABILITY PRIMARY CORE AND A HIGHER SECONDARY.
AS YOU CAN SEE FROM THE NEW DESIGN - WE ARE EMPLOYING MULTIPLE BI-TOROIDS WITH INCREASING OUTER CORE AREA(S) TO "SUCK" THE LOAD INDUCED BACK EMF OUT AND AWAY FROM THE PRIMARY. THE MORE OUTER TOROIDS THE GREATER THE OUTPUT POWER AND THE LESS RETURN FLUX TO THE PRIMARY.

Quote(2)
Make the secondary big toroid of the bitoroid much taller and fatter than the 2 primary coils so it can handle more flux, this would be done by stacking two metglass tape winds together to yield a 50mm high toroid. Also each layer would have more metglass winds than the primaries, so a big fat secondary!

THIS IS OUR APPROACH BUT WITH CONVENTIONAL CORES.

Quote(3)
Make and mount the three toroids such that the top two primaries are angled up like a roof in order to physically seperate the primary and secondary flux paths.

I THINK THAT FLUX FOLLOWS THE PATH OF LEAST RELUCTANCE SO IF YOUR PRIMARY CORE AREA IS SMALL (RELATIVE TO THE OUTER CORE) AND IS OPERATING JUST BELOW SATURATION - THEN IT STANDS TO REASON THAT THE SECONDARY INDUCED FLUX IS GOING TO TRY TO "FILL" THE OUTER CORE AREAS BEFORE HEADING BACK TOWARDS THE CENTRE PRIMARY.

Quote(4)
Do a 1:1 turns ratio, or in this case 1:1:1. turns and gauge sufficient to handle a power high enough to push the primary toroids well into saturation.

(5)
Power it up with variac and purely resistive load.

(6)
Adjust the input voltage aso that the primaries are just below saturation.

(7)
Measure inp/out and calc PF using 2ch oscope:
   ch1 accross coil for voltage,
   ch2 accross shunt in series for current.

P.S.
Sorry to hassle you with queries.

All the best, Fraser.

THIS IS PRETTTY MUCH EXACTLY WHAT WE ARE DOING WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE EXOTIC CORES.

CHEERS
Thane

Quotein your opinion, what are the key elements to achieve the Lenz-less type operation?
-  scale up to greater turns & current operation?
-  move from pulsed DC to Sine waveforms?
-  take outputs from secondaries and rectify separately, rather than series? (so that secondary back-emfs oppose each other)
-  use different cores?

any pointers much appreciated!

keep up the good work - all the best with the presentation
sandy

DEAR SANDY,

AS I SAID PREVIOUSLY AT LEAST FOR THIS TRANSFORMER DESIGN - YOU NEED LENZ'S LAW TO MAINTAIN THE FLUX UNDER LOAD CONDITIONS OR THE VOLTAGE WILL COLLAPSE AND YOU WILL SUPPLY LITTLE OR NO POWER.

THIS IS WHY WE USE TWO OPPOSING COILS TO "FEED" EACH OTHER THE FLUX REQUIRED TO "SELF REGULATE" THE LOAD VOLTAGE.

NOW THE TRICKY PART IS ENCOURAGING THE SECONDARY LOAD INDUCED BACK EMF TO MOVE AWAY FROM THE RETURN FLUX PATH INTO THE PRIMARY - WHICH WE FEEL WE HAVE ACHIEVED WITH THE MULTI SECONDARY BI-TOROID SCENARIO - WHERE THE "S.L.I.B.E" IS AUTOMATICALLY DRAW OUTWARDS TOWARDS THE LARGER LOWER RELUCTANCE CORES AND RESISTS THE TEMPTATION TO MOVE TOWARDS THE PRIMARY HIGH RELUCTANCE CORE.

HOPE THIS HELPS?

CHEERS
Thane

Quote from: Morgenster on July 30, 2008, 08:56:06 AM
Hi Thane,

so how did the professor respond? I read that you were doing some demo on monday?

Greets

ONCE OUR NEW TRANSFORMER PROTOTYPE ( http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NDC0KJ5O ) IS READY WE WILL BE CHECKING THE INPUT CURRENT WITH A TOPWARD METER - THE PROBLEM WITH THE CLAMP METER USED IS THAT IT IS SENSITIVE TO EXTERNAL MAGNETIC FIELDS WHICH ARE EVERYWHERE SO WE GET DIFFERENT CURRENT READINGS AT EVERY DIFFERENT LOCATION WE PLACE THE METER. SO WE WAIT AGAIN...

Thane