Quote from: infringer on December 06, 2008, 08:40:39 PM

Then we could easily setup networks all over using legal technology such as ground wave hell walkie talkies even... and it would be no cost out of pocket... We could easily skip miles of non supporters with dishes and bushes baked bean cans... Using legal technologies and concentrating them...

We could have humongous data centers with no power costing supreme simulations could be run constantly at the price of hardware only...

be back to comment later g2g

G'day Infringer and all,

It would indeed be technically possible to set up a system like you propose. The problem with it is that the airwaves are more tightly controlled than anything else on the planet. In most countries the content of what can be broadcast is severely restricted and any breaches are prosecuted with fervour.

If you don't believe me set up a small radio station with a walkie talkie, broadcast music and advertise cigarettes between songs. How long do you think it would be before you are in court?

Have a look at the restrictions as to content that are placed on amateur radio. You will be surprised how little you are actually permitted to do. The internet at the moment is an anomality, which they are already in the process of dealing with using child pornography and terrorism as an excuse to gain control.

The rapid spread of internet technology took legislators by surprise and an all out attempt at censorship would have been political suicide in democratic countries simply because of the large number of people that would have resented interference. But control and ever tightening restrictions will come, make no mistake about this.

In the meantime let us enjoy what we have and while we still have some power let us fight those who want to shut us up.

Hans von Lieven

Gentlemen,

The absence of regulation is one of the most appealing things about this technology, should it prove viable.

So far this is "pie in the sky" thinking and should it be proved to be a viable method of communication it would need many more things before it came to the attention of the "authorities", but a great deal has to be discovered, tested, and "made free" through an open source offering so that great enough a mass of folks would use it to bring that about.

How might regulation of this media be accomplished without someone selling it?

It's "illegal" to make explosives, drugs, pornography, political policy, etc. without proper licensing {illegality is just a different "tax" with VERY restrictive rules if you don't follow them, or know those that REALLY profit from them), but it's REALLY hard to regulate or tax a thing that you can't control in some way and if profit is not made off this, then it cannot be regulated (yet).

But (oh shit...underline is gone now w/ avatars as well as the [IMG] tag. Stephan, unless this is something that could compromise the site immediately, the absence of these tools are REALLY obtrusive and non-productive  in the "free exchange of world enhancing information") if and when a technology such as this (buried for decades because of it's non-profitability) DOES make an impact and is available to all, it will not be able to be regulated effectively.

Kids, this is not Hertzian wave broadcast technology, but (should it be be proved viable and effective) SCALAR technology!
Until there is a "money" handle on the tech it is non-regulatory.

How can something be regulated if there is no money that is effected by it?

Freedom IS a significant thing to threaten if you can't go for the money angle, but unfortunately, most of those willing to risk such a thing as freedom and liberty don't care much about laws as the laws are enacted by those who have the most to lose from the free exchange  of information.

Lets worry about it becoming a technology before we start worrying how it will be regulated, eh?

@hons

There are folks constantly broadcasting there wireless internet over satellite dishes and there have been lots of project pages I have read on the topic and big brother has not done jack...

I there is provisions allowed for small radio channels for church and such and seeing as how religion cannot be regulated if you make it part of your religion and your church or whatever you should have the ability...

I am not talking raido waves I am talking your plain wireless routers completely legal technology how many people out there lowjack off there neighbors ? A crap load of people... Why and how is this possible? The answer is simple the broadcast range reaches there home...

Ok with that said if you setup a local area network with your neighbors there is no law against this... I am nearly 100% positive of this...

So what I propose we accomplish free energy and use repeaters and routers and network with neighboors who want to participate and create an internet away from the internet. Regulate smegulae I would do it if you were my neighbor and wouldn't think twice about it! And if the network was secured prove that what is going on is going on simple they cant all they can do is speculate... It is hard to police something like that if it got big enough...

Yes they use all sorts of things to take away freedoms but it ain't just kiddie  and terrorists that they use to do it they pass laws behind closed doors they add things in to other laws and then call upon the clause in that law when needed and countless other things which by the way I may add the http://www.eff.org or EFF Electronic Frontier Foundation is fighting for our rights and if you believe in keeping some of your freedoms you should donate to these folks and contribute to something that will help get somewhere actually.

I've stood on the soap box much like you have and said all the same things hons but its like writing on a piece of paper and flinging it on the ground in the middle of new york most people will not read it... They will consider it trash or read it and say ahhh this guy is got a good point and then throw it in a waste basket... So I decided that I would donate a few bucks a year as that does get somewhere because the EFF has won many cases for the people.

@excommon

I am curious exactly how you propose to supply the power for such a broadcast? Or I should say afford it... 2500 watts is a lot of power man....

Conceptual sketches or words that you would like to add on how to achive what you propose or a more in depth definition of what we are trying to accomplish would be nice too!

@megathos

I still await your reply.

@all
Free energy is more important then free communication... Plain simple. Providers may provide free or near free communications if all they had was equipment cost and like I said development could be 20x's the normal speed we see now and once a communication form is found that will be very tuff to regulate which will happen eventually... If you think of it free energy is the biggest thing that could empower the world there would be a boulder lifted off every man women and child who walks the earth! Education not possible in other countries would be possible for all we know the next Tesla is living in Africa with food or clean water and no access to an education he or she will never full bloom to his or her potential the list goes on .....

This is not what came first the chicken or the egg theory we are discussing no not at all there are sound factors and implications in what I speak. You just have to sit back and comprehend what could be possible with free energy...

-infringer-

@ infringer

Fair enough. Let me answer your questions in the reverse order though.

Quote from: infringer on December 08, 2008, 10:50:22 PM
Conceptual sketches or words that you would like to add on how to achieve what you propose or a more in depth definition of what we are trying to accomplish would be nice too!

The way I see a road map to realization of my "half-baked idea" would be like this:

1.) Experiment and test with scalar radio (JNL or Meyl schematic) and antenna (Tesla).

   This is the big "IDUNNO" (I don't know) of the equation as actual testing and research is not that readily available.
   Tesla seemed to think it was possible and spent a good deal of time and money in Colorado Springs and Wardenclyffe on the idea. Those towers were supposed to broadcast both energy AND communication/entertainment.
   Meyl seems to think it's possible and has a 600+ page document (I'm on page 94) of theory, mathematics, and testing of the principle.

   I think this is the 1st place to start with testing as it's the pivotal piece that makes anything else necessary. Testing of range, frequency stability, interference capability, etc. would have to be done to see if it's a viable technology.
   After this would be proven viable the next steps would be:

2.)Test signal strength and frequency tuning (how finely can you tune to a frequency without it "slopping over" [interfering]) with a neighboring frequency).

3.) Adapt a wireless network card to use the proven radio (or try the already manufactured one seen at http://www.konor.org/SWi_Fi_Konor_org_EN.pdf) and antenna type and do point to point tests at ever increasing distances to test the reported "over the horizon capability" Tesla talked about.

4.) Try a networking schemata to see if you can have more than 2 radios on the same frequency talking at the same time.
IPV6 (TCP/IP version 6) would probably be a good candidate as the 'net will have to migrate to it eventually because we're running out of IPV4 addresses and IPV6 has a lot of extra space (so far).

   From this point it could fork off into a lot of different directions, but depending on how that went:

5.) Adapt a compression scheme (like Magnathos was talking about on page 2 or 3) and perhaps a "distributed hosting method" where when your machine visits a site, your machine hosts an encrypted portion of the site (so you cannot alter the content) so when a request goes out on an "all hail" frequency (like TCP/IP does when it asks where a website is via DNS), it receives answers from the machines on the network saying which pieces they have.
Your machine then negotiates which pieces will be gotten from which other machines on the network (being both clients and servers) on what frequency, etc. etc. and assembles them asynchronously from the different responses to serve you the web page you asked for so that server load and radio capability is not easily saturated.

   The networking part is already done and waiting (why re-invent the wheel?) to be adapted. It's all dependent upon the radio portion, so that's where I was thinking of looking first.

Quote from: infringer on December 08, 2008, 10:50:22 PM
I am curious exactly how you propose to supply the power for such a broadcast? Or I should say afford it... 2500 watts is a lot of power man....

   The appealing thing about scalar (these things have yet to be proven) is that it is supposed to be able to travel much farther (not "line of sight" limited), much faster (I've seen claims of 2X light speed), with much less power so I'm not sure that current radio station power demands would be applicable; at least for  the proposed idea.

   Check out some of the links throughout the pages of the thread to see what the reported benefits of scalar are.

@ all

   I haven't been moving very quickly with this as I have some personal interests to satisfy before I feel ready to tackle the hardware portion of the idea.
   I'd like to read and understand the larger Meyl document (this could take a while), compare the JNL scalar radio to a schematic for a very simple Hertzian transmitter and see exactly what the difference is in the electronics (this could take a while too as my electronics knowledge is barely minimal), and then build and test.
   Since Tesla is involved I'd think that resonance will have something to do with tuning the antennas, and even with some good threads here about that (gotoluc and armagdn03), that will still probably be tricky.
   So far all the experimentation I've seen published is about scalars ability to broadcast through a shield (Faraday cage) and not looking at its distance capabilities, etc. and that's where I see it being possible to achieve the subject of this thread and even perhaps furnish "Free WiFi" as someone posted.

   But don't wait for me as who knows how long it'll be before I can grasp all I outline above.

Meyl hrmmm maybe you should include a link to the document or the document in your posting...

As far as the way megathos "sorry if the name is spelled wrong..."  proposed it is semi being done with bit torrent the torrent file is basically a key for the store of data on several computers... It is from this file that it retrieves data from a large pool of information. So really while it is compression it isn't a feasible solution to what we talk of currently cause basically you have to have the uncompressed information already so it will essentially be like downloading anyways the full file unless you had a huge pool of data on your computer and then you might as well just have the files... Compression is compression what he talks of is not compression really.

Scalar waves are an interesting topic as well as longitudinal waves and such I am taken in a bit by your half baked idea I find it intellectually stimulating I am a bit shocked that more are not or maybe just silent who knows but keep up the good work man your thought over time may inspire something big.

-infringer-