If there is cold fusion i.e heat produced by a fusion reaction at low temperature there is no need to supply heat to maintain it (except during start-up), so not relevant to talk about COP.

My NASA search was done 5 days ago, also search about MIT found nothing.
In www.sciencedaily.com my seach using LENR or Rossi gave nothing despite every news about science come to that site hour after hour from all over the world.

Whas enthusiastic about cold fusion 1 month ago when I arrived in this forum and did not even know cold fusion was back, now am septical due to lack of rigor in all the recent posts I read in this thread, not going to read old posts nor to post anymore, cant get any relevant information today in this thread. Will search information in other places. Agree with you guys that there is something real about cold fusion, not trusting this character of Rossi, he does nothing to be trustable. Good continuation, dont absorb blindly internet interviews or rumors, be critical, don't accept secrecy as justification, anything secret should not be mentioned in any interview unless he wants to keep his followers waiting. I hope to be totally wrong about Rossi.

"If there is cold fusion i.e heat produced by a fusion reaction at low temperature
there is no need to supply heat to maintain it (except during start-up), so not
relevant to talk about COP."
It is not so.
Real cold fusion goes without heat build up.
But this is possible in military devices, such as was in fall of Schauberger.
They can also Megatons of TNT to yield, but this depends on purpose only.
Normal work temperature for cold fusion is 10.000.000 degree, but this all depends on scale of process only.
Reactors built for civilian purposes don't have such unlimited range between "0" and "10 mlns" so this have COP 1 to 5 only.
Here You see please:
-civilian category: http://nspap.livejournal.com/25641.html
which can without special conditions to be used,
and
-national (or peaceful as they call it for masking the real purpose).
http://nspap.livejournal.com/25598.html
http://nspap.livejournal.com/16631.html
I know that Russians-Potapov, which were earlier than polish devices, have this second category working too, but for military strategic reasons don't say a world against.
And speaches about CNF going on other things as water a completely nonsence are.
The main remark for CNF is real this, that fuel don't deteriorates, even slightly.
It rebuilts (renews) from itself, from its own universe which lays behind it, beyond our sence and possibility to understand it.
(Out of bomb purpose of course).
Maybe of this, the Germans called his first plane workung upon it nearly 100 years ago, nothing other as: "Jenseits Flugmaschine".
I think that Harti as of German origin could better decipher this name.

I advise You all to search more for work of Victor Schauberger and to try to understand his thoughs about Nature.
I had done it personally and i'm very impressed about.
It is really worth to waste weeks on it.
Try by yourself.

@parisd:
You want to be rich, but you're not willing to work.  "Get up off of that thing" and dig if you want to strike gold.  The world is NOT going to just hand you a Lear jet and a Mercedes while you wait comfortably by the pool.  This thread does not come with room service.  If you don't want to read back through the thread for MIT links, NASA quotes and video, then I can not help you.

Quote from: parisd on April 08, 2012, 10:46:07 AM
...be critical, don't accept secrecy as justification, anything secret should not be mentioned in any interview unless he wants to keep his followers waiting. I hope to be totally wrong about Rossi.

Protecting a patent before it is granted is a very common practice and therefore does not constitute fraud. 

Even Pepsi keeps their secret recipe for their soft drink locked up in a safe despite the fact that they have already been granted a patent for their soft drink many decades ago.

Oilprice.com: As of yet you have not let anyone study the intricate mechanisms inside of your machine stating the fact that the patents have still not been approved. This lack of transparency has resulted in a great deal of criticism. Once you have received the patent will you reveal more detailed information on the E-Cat?

Andrea Rossi: Yes

At least Rossi (unlike Pepsi) is willing to give more details of his invention AFTER his patent(s) have been granted.


Regards,

Chess   

Lumen:

QuoteIt's interesting how people put words in Rossi's mouth that he never said. So let me correct the "no plant in the US lie" for those who were not listening!
Rossi said "there is CURRENTLY yes that's CURRENTLY no PRODUCTION yes that's PRODUCTION in the US. He did not say there was no plant being built, He did not say they are not running samples for testing, He did not say! what he said was CURRENTLY all production is overseas.
Very simple for those who wish to believe Rossi is a fraud (and cannot read) to interpret to something negative.

Rossi picks his words carefully and you can see why he must.

In modern parlance, this is pure "fanboy" talk.  You want to believe that Rossi can do no wrong and you will look for every possible angle to keep him "pure."

From what I recall from reading that attachment Rossi claimed that there there were 300 functioning units undergoing stress testing in the alleged American production facility.  Then he meets an agent of Bureau of Radiological Heath that wants to check out the factory for radiation levels, and he says there is no factory.  So I completely disagree with you.  The Federal agent had a perfectly legitimate reason to go check out the factory, if it actually existed.  Rossi simply lying and manipulative, and he is manipulating you.

I checked the report, the line is "Currently all production, distribution, and use of these devices is overseas."  Stress testing 300 units is definitely "using" them.   It stinks.  You should use your instincts and common sense and not try to "massage" the truth.

My assumption right now in early April 2012 is that there is nothing in Florida except for Rossi's condo, which is where he lives.  There is no business address in Florida for any of his companies.

QuoteI suppose you are then at this very moment looking for someone to report those HOT FUSION people to over at CERN. They have STOLEN hundreds of millions from several countries and continue to steal without end knowing very well that hot fusion can NEVER work. They cannot even solve the first step of more energy out than in and even if they do (in another ten years of course) that is only ONE hurdle. The second hurdle of how to contain the high speed neutrons has been ignored because everyone knows there is no solution.
So go for it MileHigh, get them thieves! They are stealing money from us good people!

Actually I would qualify this as legitimate government-sponsored research.  I would guess that they produce massive volumes of data per year and every year they have to request funding for their budget.  You talk is just sour grapes talk.  They may fail, it's a real possibility.  But certainly the project is real and the people are real.  They haven't stolen anything, it's all by the book.

A little reminder for you about Pons and Fleishman.  After 1989, for about the next 10 years they were courted by various countries.  I think they ended up in Japan where they were provided with the best labs with the best state-of-the-art equipment.  They ended up producing nothing.  Somehow that fact is overlooked and LENR fans talk about the fact that we are "23 years late" in getting this technology to market, bla bla bla.

Time will tell if Rossi delivers but in my opinion it's not looking good at all.

MileHigh

I have found recently this in other topic:
"News / Re: I see an economic diasater coming...
« on: October 22, 2011, 03:29:15 AM »
Rather as to waste time for all this silness, i advise all US citizens to write to Los
Alamos to obtain copy of Potapov's VHG's test.
You have only right to do it after: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Freedom_of_Information_Act_(United_States )
Have a time with it, and please don't forget to show us."

What i have searched in net, the fully succesfull cold fusion devices of Potapov (which are sold by hundreds in Russia for >15 years) were proved in Los Alamos and later awarded through B. Clinton.
Why for Gods sake, nobody written yet to obtain all free copy of this sensational research?
I think after all this reading, as well as here in Poland, nobody really wants change and water engines first.