@mrwayne. If I understand you correctly, you are saying that the weight is not part of the load. So it essential to the working of the machine, and it rises and falls with each stroke . The net energy needed it to raise and lower it will be small, because what energy we put in to lift it, we get back as it falls. I would guess, but am not yet certain , that when we use two ZEDS, the weights counterbalance each other to a large extent. You say the actual load is the hydraulic system .
    OK but in a simple demonstration model, we may want to avoid the complexity and expense of hydaulics.
But we still need a load as we know that the machine needs a load . Could the load be a mechanical ratchet system used to constantly raise a weight? By that i mean a "new" weight, other than the weights mentioned previously.

Quote from: Magluvin on June 13, 2012, 08:04:03 AM
Johnny, what seems to be your problem?  You are acting as if Wayne is in the Bessler thread bothering you, just as you are doing in Waynes thread here. But I dont see Wayne posting over there.

So why dont you go and work on your stuff, instead of posting this nonsense here?

Get a grip dude.

Mags

  Mag,
Me and Wayne have pm'ed some. Something he said to me.
I guess though it is unfortunate I went to school to understand systems like this.
Compression creates a low pressure high velocity discharge. Engineers have worked with this for years.
The reason it becomes high velocity is because of the back pressure caused by compression.
I was going to say that when he sees what I will be demonstrating, he can build it. Of course, what is
not understood about Bessler was that he was using his work to demonstrate his faith. He used 3 crosses
placed around his wheels as a "sign" to have faith. Some how, everyone has missed this clue of his. It could
be they lack the discerning mind he says a person needs.
And one thing I could be missing is he might not be able to work with his hands.
Sorry Wayne, Happy Hunting 

Quote from: neptune on June 13, 2012, 08:50:31 AM
@mrwayne. If I understand you correctly, you are saying that the weight is not part of the load. So it essential to the working of the machine, and it rises and falls with each stroke . The net energy needed it to raise and lower it will be small, because what energy we put in to lift it, we get back as it falls. I would guess, but am not yet certain , that when we use two ZEDS, the weights counterbalance each other to a large extent. You say the actual load is the hydraulic system .
    OK but in a simple demonstration model, we may want to avoid the complexity and expense of hydaulics.
But we still need a load as we know that the machine needs a load . Could the load be a mechanical ratchet system used to constantly raise a weight? By that i mean a "new" weight, other than the weights mentioned previously.

The load can be what ever you desire - pump water, turn a ratchet, hydraulic pressure  - but without a load - the system will simply rise without building head -
Larry was dead right when he recognized the diference between continually adding head - to do work, and simply raising the water level (where the head already exists).
Larry has taken a big jump in the right direction.
When you add a weight to a spring, the weight compresses the spring to a point of equalibrium, then the work to lift the spring is related directly to the weight of both the spring and weight -
The point is energy - is not added to compress the spring any more - as you travel.
On the reverse - when you take the load off the weight - at the end of travel - the spring will expand - which direction it expanded depends on the capture device.
Our system has a Hydro pnuematic spring.

Quote from: johnny874 on June 13, 2012, 02:15:44 AM
Wayne,
Is it so difficult to say you will let myself and otherr pursue Besslers work without worrying about you involving yourself ?
After all, you are the travis behind the travis effect, right ?
It seems you have a lot to lose. Like I said, I feel sorry for you but you are a grown man and will be able to deal with it.
It is not my mistake, maybe next time if there is one for you, you might listen to what others have to say.

Jim

Jim, I just wanted to point out (again) that if Mr. Wayne's device is proven to work and that it is harnessing the Conservitive Field of Force known as Gravity, it gives validity to Bessler's wheel like never before and there may be many times more individuals interested in that.  Me included. 

You believe that Bessler also used buoyancy, but others (like myself) do not.  So I would be looking for what fundamental underlying principle could be used without a fluid that could be derived without buoyancy to cause a Conserative Field of Force to be used to do work.  The guys playing with magnetic fields would also be searching feverishly for this underlying principle.

So asking Mr. Wayne not to try might be the least of your concerns if your goal is to be "first" to replicate a Bessler type wheel.

M.

@Mondrasek, a very perceptive post. I always sat on the fence regarding Bessler`s wheel. But I believe that the first OU device to make it to market, will have an effect greater than the sum of its parts. Not only will it provide affordable energy, it will change the whole human perception of energy and indeed physics. In short it will be the first white crow that proves that not all crows are black. Suddenly , there will be fever of white crow hunting like never before. In the initial hysteria, white crows will be seen everywhere . But as things settle down, we will be able to separate the Magic from the Tragic. Then, who know, we may find a breeding pair...


@Mrwayne. I have re read all your posts over again and will do so several times, because to fully understand everything you have said, it helps me. Regarding models , you built a machine to show input and output, which I believe was the first machine seen by Mark Dansie . You refer to this as a "Table Top Simple System" which might be a good starting point for the home builder/experimenter. Table top implies fairly small . Could you give a rough idea of the size of the ZED please, and if possible the number of layers. was it three?


Suggestion.  The ultimate teaching tool in understanding this phenomenon would be an Animation, with commentary on what is happening at each stage. Perhaps someone with the necessary skills and soft ware could consider this ? Every picture tells a story .