MileHigh,

thanks for caring about the validity of my outlook on the HHO scene, but as I said, I don't know Frederick well enough to beyond doubt back him up as a truly honest guy, so you really don't need to be that depressed.

On the other hand, what people think about this guy at the forums only carry weight if they are first person witnesses subjected to wrongs by this man.
Otherwise they are just gossiping and executing self appointed conclusions without any first person sources.

Word stand against word here, and IF, and I stress IF, Fast Freddy actually was subjected to suppression, we both know that this wouldn't be the first time FBI, or as in this case according to Frederick, The Homeland Security, came and confiscated the inventory.

But again, don't be depressed, I do not take any firm standpoint in this matter either, neither do I intend to deal any dire strikes of judgement based on gossip.

Gwandau

Chessnyt,

thanks for elucidating the differences for me, it is obvious that Stan Meyer was quite a bit more sophisticated regarding the understanding of efficient HHO production.

And as MileHigh with great worry and depression emphasizes, this Fast Freddy may just as well be one of these fortune seekers having a go at the easy prey. If such is the case, any information extracted from his concept will be deviating from a successful path.

I have a feeling that the Stan Meyer effect is due to Quantum processes far down in the Planck scale of events, which explaines the difficulties for the orthodox science to understand what is happening.

Gwandau

  Ecats could also be used in a refrigeration process that are commonly called expansion units.  These units use heat and no compressor.  They do require a thermal transfer medium of some sort.    Large units could be produced in the deserts where they would condense atmospheric water vapor and provide the conditions for plant growth needed.  Sunlight and water appears to be the needed ingrediants to support life.  The second law of thermal dynamics does not apply to an expanding system.  The expansion refrigeraton process is testimony to this.  The archaic use of cooling towers and fans could be bypassed by the production of coherent light.  The lasers or masers employed then beam the light into space where the heat is finally removed from Earth's atmosphere.   
   Along the same lines.   An electrical process that forms plasma is endothermic.   The plasma can then be transported to where you need the heat and condensed back into hot gasses.   The process is commonly used in automobile ignition systems.  The input from the battery forms a plasma in the spark gap.  The electron's in the combustion chamber gasses are drawn into the production of the plasma forming between the electrode's  The plasma itself is cold.  Upon release of the confinement field the plasma disintegrates causing the stored energy used to create the plasma to be released at an astounding rate causing heating of the fuel  to initiate the fuel BURN.  The burning fuel expands the non-combustibles. ( Oil companies are now dissolving large amounts of nitrogen into their fuels.  This allows for the thermal energy released due to the oxidation of carbon and hydrogen to result in the necessary expansion of the gasses in the combustion chamber to be aquired with lower octane fuels.  This is a good move by them because less energy is consumed in fuel formulation in the refineries.)   The exhaust stroke removes the heated fuel and dumps it into the atmosphere.    Hydrogen and Oxygen in the proper timing sequence will cause an implosion when combined in the absence of inert gasses.  An engine could be easily modified to intake oxygen and hydrogen and caused to implode after the intake stroke.  The vacuum produced then takes advantage of  atmospheric pressure to drive the piston towards the cylinder head.  At tdc the inlet valve is opened again and hydrogen and oxygen are supplied to the cylinder.  The two stroke mistimed engine would accumulate hot water so a small exhaust port would have to be engineered.  This process regularly occurs in engines that have too lean a mixture.  The detonation of the gasses does not create pressure but vacuum conditions in a cylinder fed with too lean a mixture.  The cylinders then lift the intake valves off their seats and the familiar mechanical noise called knock are detected.
   I performed an experiment where plasma was fromed from two electrodes that were raised at the same potential until coronal discharges were induced in a vary specific geometry.  The resulting extraction of the thermal energy from the surrounding field was astounding.   Cooling effects 6 feet from the two plasma forming electrodes were recorded.  I had no idea where the thermal energy was going until I took into account the wide spectrum of electromagnetic radiation emanating from the two plasma cones.  There was absolutely no electrode heating.  The electrodes were magnetically manufactured in such a manner as to insulate them from any thermal degradation by use of magnetic confinment of a space charge about each electrode.  The electrodes were pulsed at 15khz 30,000 volts dc + above ground.  The resultant conversion of thermal energy into coherent electromagnetic energy could easily have been collected on various transducers used in place of my eyes.  The wide spectrum of emradiation was observed ranging from ultraviolet to white light with absolutely no spectrum emissions due to chemical degradation of the electrodes. 

Quote from: Loner on July 19, 2012, 04:47:28 PM
Sparks, Very interesting, but as one who has spent a LOT of time building racing engines, I thought I should mention a couple things.  1)  An absolute vacuum in the combustion chamber would NOT open either intake or exhaust valve.  Where you came up with such an idea should be noted, as that source of info should be disregarded.  If such a thing were possible, then low throttle, high vacuum operation would be impossible, never mind normal deceleration.  2) The "Knock" sound is produced by what is normally called "Detonation", which put simply just means too high a burn rate.  Though most think of the combustion chamber having explosions inside, it's really just a fast burn.  An explosion, when it happens, causes the "Knock".   I won't go into further details, as there are more than would fit in a small book, but the idea that an HO implosion could open a valve just was too far "Out there" for me to ignore.  Yes, I have run an ICE on HHO.   Always remember, for greatest mechanical leverage, the greatest pressure is desired from 35 to 55 degrees ATDC.  That should explain WHY timing is set where it is and must be advanced as RPM increases, etc.  I hope that helps.  (And yes I know that there are certain fuel types that alter those specifications, but that's another looong boring post that no-one wants to read.)

As to plasma being cool, I don't know, but plasma cutters I have used seem to produce heat.  I will need to do a bit of personal experimentation to see the effects you are discussing.  If you mean production of plasma without an arc, then I would be interested in how that is accomplished with just two electrodes, at the same potential, with no discharge to a second conduction point.  I must admit, I am quite mystified.  If you are suggesting a cold arc, wouldn't that be a suggestion of "Cold Electricity"?  Obviously, I have insufficient information to form a cogent theory on this concept.

To all, sorry about the off-topic stuff, but it is interesting.  I'm still in "Waiting" mode on the e-cat, so I cannot really comment on the proper thread topic.

   When the mixture is leaned out and there is not enough fuel expansion the cylinder pressure drops to zero then into vacuum as the crankshaft inertia continues to drive the piston the rest of the way to tdb. This is so detremental to operation of the engine most engineers will run a car rich when a defective oxygen sensor sends the ecm into default modes.  They have no idea what kind of gogo juice your running. 
  The implosion engine I suggested is the exact opposite of an ice.  It would also need a modified ignition system to trigger the water formation.  It also does not need the energy robbing compression stroke which is again just fuel preperation. You want a gas to expand in the piston we would be better off with running hydrogen peroxide into the piston through a silver screen catalyst.  I think Stan Myers was doing this but he was up to so much it is hard to figure it out.  Imagine instead of making on demand hoh you made on demand rocket fuel.  Damn loner you could win em all.  

@Loner:
The news concerning the E-Cat has slowed down to a trickle so I think that this is sort of a nice intermission if you will. 

The latest news I have is that Rossi has just recently stated that the certificators are going to require that contractors change the 6 month refill/cartridge for the customer.  Rossi must comply in order to get his residential product launched.  This of course adds considerably to the yearly cost of operating the home version E-Cat. 

It can't always be good news but I have to present the truth.

Regarding HHO:
Speaking of engines, I have purchased a four stroke test engine which has no computerized controls to bypass and is also carburated as Stan Meyer's first test engine was.  I do plan to dilute the fuel (HHO) with inert gasses by recycling some of the exhaust gasses filtered through a bubbler.  This should slow down the burn rate of the HHO allowing me to adjust it to equal that of gasoline.  Of course, I am a long ways off from running this engine and I know it.  First I must get the demonstration cell right and properly performing as Stan's was.

Regards,

Chess