Farmhand:

I have seen several references to guns also.  The tradition of having an anonymous handle predates the Internet and goes back to computer bulletin board systems and that is predated by the same tradition with Citizen's Band radio.  Because of a preponderance of unusual characters with unusual beliefs on the free energy forums in comparison with the general population, I don't give my name to anybody.  I don't want to be attacked or harassed by a nutcase.  Relatively recently I tried to help somebody on YouTube understand their circuit, somebody that most people would consider to be a cool and laid-back guy, and he thew a complete and total freak-out on me.  A year before this he asked me for my email and even though I had a few nice chats with him, I got cold feet and didn't reply.  Not so much worried about this person, but more the people he was in contact with.  And look how it turned out, he was the one that had the psycho freakout.  If he knew my real name he could have given it out to his flaky free energy friends and then I would have to live with the nagging thought that someone would attack me because I am "part of the MIB."

I haven't followed this thread for a week and will try to catch up soon.  I know that I have given others some push-back when it comes to misconceptions about electronics and energy concepts for their own good.  You would probably agree with me that there is a lot of peer pressure for people to agree with each other as they research, even if they are talking silliness and sometimes complete nonsense.  Stirring up the pot is a good thing if it gets people to think and view what they are doing more seriously.  Look at the UFOPolitics threads, they are a classic example of most things going wrong with a tangible peer pressure amongthe followers to agree with each other all the time.  As of a few months ago, nobody made any comparisons with a motor with the original wiring configuration with a rewound "asymmetric" configuration to see if there was any merit in the rewinding.  The so-called "energy destroyer 'witch'" in a motor that UFOPolitics talks about is almost certainly the voltage drop in the coils do to the export of the input electrical energy being converted into mechanical energy that makes the motor spin.  If I am correct, the entire "belief system" in the UFOPolitics threads are based on confusing the conversion of electrical energy into mechanical energy to actually make the motor turn, with an "energy destroyer," the belief that there is something in a regular motor that "destroys" energy.

Sometimes I might give you yourself some push-back when I hear a concept that I suspect could be rooted in a misconception.  The intention is to encourage you to possibly think more about your analysis and perhaps get a new perspective.  I am not doing it for some perverse thrill to make anybody angry.  Suppose somebody says, "the motor will run much more efficiently at resonance."  My ears perk up.  What resonance?  What data do you have to substantiate this?  What evidence of resonance do you see?  Can you show timing diagrams that demonstrate what you are talking about?  If nobody says that then people can just hum along and blindly believe it, start repeating it to others without really knowing what they are talking about, and so on.  It can become a vicious circle that ultimately hurts people and prevents any progress.  A few years ago myself and Poynt dealt with Aaron of the the Energetic Forum when he replicated the Rosemary Ainslie circuit.  We started talking about coils and we mentioned to him that an ideal coil has zero volts across it when pure DC current passes through it.  He was confused and couldn't understand this.  What that means is that Aaaron had been "on the bench" for about 10 years at that point, he would go visit Johnny B. and talk about working on the bench with him.  It means that after 10 years of running a free energy forum and 10 years worth of tinkering on the bench, hosting conferences and even writing books related to electronics, that Mr. Aaron had no real understanding of how an inductor works.  That's the kind of thing that is to be avoided at all costs.

MileHigh

I agree, but the problem i see with some of you educated guys is you stick and linger on small points that actually mean little. Many of us are not always concerned with the little things as we don't have the time to learn how to be an electrical engineer in our spare time. Also sometimes people might be put off by the using of the "proper" language. Not me if people want to talk to me they need to tone down to language I use or explain it well as they go.

I don't get the MIB angle, it doesn't make sense to think that suppressors would just call up and not talk. I'm more suspicious of a certain site mod and co. that like to track people down to their real names by the IP addresses and so forth then out them. I think they do the spook thing to try to scare people off. Not buyin it.

So MileHigh is a resonant charging circuit actually not resonant. if Not what should it be called to differentiate it's operational characteristics ? Remember I'm not claiming less energy
to turn a rotor and looking at my input current meter you should see I am no overly concerned by micro input devices. What I am claiming is a motor that is capable of more torque and power for the number of coils (iron and copper) than most pulse motors. And energy recirculation causing an increase of energy in the circuit until dissipation halts it.

I understand that power is power and energy is energy. We cant get the energy delivery without the application of sufficient power. I'm not trying to make energy.  And the word resonance can have several meaning in different contexts.

In reality the word means to re-sound and it's actual meaning has no basis in electronics at all, it is about sound - pressure waves, electro-magnetic waves were not defined when the meaning of the word came into existence. So any use in electronics is convoluted to some degree in my opinion.

I mean we can get technical beyond technical if we wish. But what is the point. It's just like the back emf thing, it's only back emf or counter-emf that is opposing he flow of current to form the field, the field itself is a magnetic field and when it collapses it creates an emf which causes current in the same direction, how could it be back-emf if the current flows the same way ? I gave up on that and just skirt it by using different words that mean the same thing like flyback and inductive energy release rather than back-emf or counter-emf as well as just understanding what people mean (in context) when they say back-emf.

Basically the way many explain it  is that the magnetic field is made up of back-emf. I think it's magnetic flux, and when the field collapses it creates a forward emf. Now I think that is more like elastic bag behavior than that of a flywheel a flywheel cannot release it's energy so quickly as in the catastrophic energy release we see when a magnetic field collapses. I think the flywheel analogy confuses people because they don't see flywheels release energy all of a sudden like a magnetic field collapse, I think you must agree that flywheels don't do that. I know it's sacrilege to think a model you promote may be confusing but that is how I see it.

I see myself and quite a few others as being in the middle, on one side is fantasy and fiction and the other is deliberate confusion tactics and abject denial. Just a generalization, no person in particular in mind.

Some of us just want to tinker in the shed and share about it. Some of us almost live in the shed mine is a second home, sometimes first it has a bed,sink TV and all I'm guessing many others have similar  too.

Anyway I think it is very much like as Tinsel said, people are talking right past each other, and no one wants to admit anyone else can be correct.

About 5-6 years ago I didn't know what a diode was. I began looking on the internet for help to set up my new solar panels and kept getting hits for free energy when I searched for solar panel installation help, one hit was Otis-T-Carr and his spinny thingy which has purportedly been replicated by a Russian research group as a Searle device when it more closely resembles a Carr device, I find it interesting that the Searle device is so similar to the Carr device. But I digress. The point is I am here because I am curious.

I don't need others telling me what I should be doing, I am an adult. I'll do whatever I want. But I was deceived by claims made after I found the forums and I aim to make it harder for others to be deceived the same way. The MIB thing is just a convenient way for people like RomeroUK to get out of jail free, so to speak, and at the same time that alludes to them having something when they don't.

It was the Bob Boyce self charging thing that distracted me for a bit. Once I learned about batteries that became clear as a complete farce.

The problems lay with the sensationalism of Peswiki ect. they seem legit to most. Why are they allowed to continue. Why do engineers not collaborate to have them taken down if they lie ? Who protects them? Why can they commit fraud and get a way with it ? Something smells funny in free energy town. I think you'll agree with that.

And then there is Thane saying he can make energy and with claims NASA and so forth are interested in his stuff. Why no legal action ? Is he protected.

If there is MIB involvement it is in the form of the high quality fakes that work to trick people, like Don Smith, Kapanadze, and many others, At least I believe these folks are sanctioned or allowed to continue for some reason when they should be arrested on fraud charges. I guess they could just know where to draw the line so as not to break the actual law.

I think you have more to fear from the folks whose money train you upset than from the experimenters themselves.

Cheers

Farmhand:

You made lots of good comments, I will make some comments.

As far as language goes, it's impossible to know what terms the other person is familiar with.  I won't use common-use terminology on the forums that I know is misleading, which is just a small subset of what is normally used.  I don't have a problem with using some of the common terminology on the forums.  Don't be shy and ask me what my terminology means if you don't understand it.  Plus there is always Google and people should go there first.  If anything, I generally use the correct terminology as long as it is not too technical.

As far as resonance goes I know that debate took place a month or so ago on OUR.  Resonance by definition means that something is resonating, like an LC circuit.  It's stored energy that sloshes back and forth between two states or circuit components.  You need those properties for true resonance.  As I mentioned before, a Joule Thief does not resonate.  A 555 timer circuit does not resonate.  Both examples fail to comply with the criteria just mentioned.  Rather, they have an "operating frequency."  They both are pulse circuits that are triggered by voltage potentials that cross a certain threshold.  For many people there is a school of thought that says to not water down or reinterpret the meaning of technical terms because that leads to confusion.  I can't make general comments about what some people call "resonant charging circuits" without the details.  Also, I wasn't making any comments about the work you are doing because I haven't looked at it.  I am kind of getting worn down so your probably won't hear me discussing too many nit-picky details.  Also, resonance is a fundamental concept in electronics even if resonance means "re sound."

QuoteIt's just like the back emf thing, it's only back emf or counter-emf that is opposing he flow of current to form the field, the field itself is a magnetic field and when it collapses it creates an emf which causes current in the same direction, how could it be back-emf if the current flows the same way ?

You make reference to it being "forward EMF" and you are absolutely correct.  Perhaps people started calling it "back EMF" because they mostly saw a negative voltage spike?   The ironic thing is that the "negative voltage spike" is actually a "positive voltage spike" that wants to keep current flowing in the same direction.  It just so happens that more often than not the scope ground probe is at the "wrong" end of the coil and it appears to be a negative voltage spike.  Just flip the ground and signal contacts around and you will see a positive voltage spike and when you look at your schematic it will be much clearer that the inductor is in discharge mode trying to push the current in the same direction with a "positive voltage spike."

QuoteNow I think that is more like elastic bag behavior than that of a flywheel a flywheel cannot release it's energy so quickly as in the catastrophic energy release we see when a magnetic field collapses. I think the flywheel analogy confuses people because they don't see flywheels release energy all of a sudden like a magnetic field collapse, I think you must agree that flywheels don't do that.

Sometimes people need to contemplate things for a while and what first appeared to be counter-intuitive becomes intuitive.  Flywheels perfectly emulate a magnetic field collapse.  It's so close that it's in fact identical.

I put out that teaser about how a flywheel models a "back EMF spike" and it's good to know you were thinking about it.   So here we go:   A big flywheel is spinning and you want to stop it from spinning.   You put on gloves and grab the disk with your hands and slow it down.  Can you make it stop instantaneously?   You of course know that the answer is no.  You know that force equals mass times acceleration.  So to make it stop instantly you have to have infinite acceleration and that means it takes infinite force to make the flywheel stop instantly.

So you do the next best thing.  You have powerful hydraulic brake calipers clamp down hard on the flywheel as fast as possible.   You know that the calipers will experience a massive spike of force from the flywheel as it decelerates - there is your "back EMF spike."  A massive spike of voltage output from the coil means the current stops flowing in the coil nearly instantly.   A massive spike of of force (torque) put out by the flywheel means the flywheel stops spinning nearly instantly.  For a coil, if you disconnect it from the battery, it will literally ionize the air and turn it into a conducting plasma to keep the current flowing.  This happens at the speed of light.  It's literally impossible to stop the current flowing in a coil instantly.  Likewise, it's literally impossible to make a flywheel instantly stop spinning.  No metal alloy in the calipers will be able to make a flywheel stop instantly, no metal alloy can withstand an infinite force.  The metal will always flex and give a bit.  If the metal doesn't flex then the spinning flywheel will shatter the calipers.

So if you can follow that you see I was serious when I said a coil and a flywheel are essentially the same thing.   Any electrical circuit that you make on your bench can be emulated with an equivalent mechanical circuit and vice-versa.

MileHigh

A few more comments:

QuoteThe problems lay with the sensationalism of Peswiki ect. they seem legit to most. Why are they allowed to continue. Why do engineers not collaborate to have them taken down if they lie ? Who protects them? Why can they commit fraud and get a way with it ? Something smells funny in free energy town. I think you'll agree with that.

Most people are now in cringe mode when it comes to Sterling and all his web sites.  I can't see him changing though and I don't think that he has a bad heart.  Honesty it's almost unbelievable when you first encounter it.  "Nobody" in the real world of engineering knows that people like Sterling or Bedini exist.  Likewise there is no "MIB" or whatnot watching comical situations like the Yildiz affair.  None of these things are even a blip on a blip.  People in the engineering profession are worried about the real world projects that they are working on.

QuoteIf there is MIB involvement it is in the form of the high quality fakes that work to trick people, like Don Smith, Kapanadze, and many others, At least I believe these folks are sanctioned or allowed to continue for some reason when they should be arrested on fraud charges.

I think they fly under the RADAR with respect to law enforcement.  Every now and then one of them gets busted.

MileHigh

"It's just like the back emf thing, it's only back emf or counter-emf that is opposing he flow of current to form the field, the field itself is a magnetic field and when it collapses it creates an emf which causes current in the same direction, how could it be back-emf if the current flows the same way ?"

Problems arise in communicating concepts when their is no differentiation between normal back emf (rotor induced counter emf - which is opposite in polarity to forward emf) in a motor, and the back emf produced by a collapsing magnetic field in a pulsed system. Unfortunately, electronics convention does not differentiate between the two and refers to both types of emf as 'back emf', regardless of the origin of the emf.

I prefer to refer to rotor induced back emf as back emf or counter emf, while referring to the emf produced by a collapsing field as cemf or collapsing emf, in order to differentiate the two different types of back emf.

Cheers