Quote from: TheCell on August 08, 2014, 12:15:33 PM
<and because he is measuring phase: with low phase distortion. >
I don't get it. ' with low phase distortion '
Is it the measurement method of this fluke 99 scopemeter?
Has distortion any impact on the accuracy of phase measurement?
(Well I guess it has , when it's heavily distorted, but I don't see any there . Must admit I am not trained.)

One can get phase distortion depending on the probes.  Your typical 10:1 high impedance probe has a compensation network that introduces substantial phase shift near the compensation pole ~ 1/(2pi*9Mohms*12pF) or about 1.5kHz.  This is right in the ball park of Bill Alek's 3kHz test frequency.  If one uses identical probes for both channels that are both properly compensated then the phase shifts match and there is no issue.  I believe that is not the case here as I think he goes straight from his amplified current sensor into the scope.

The small screw at the probe, when you attach it to the built in test signal generator of the scope to get get the proper square signal on the screen (should have come to my mind)
Abusing this setting you can 'tune' phase shift results. He should have connected a resistor to see, if he gets the zero deg. or a cap to see the minus 90 .

Quote from: TheCell on August 08, 2014, 02:28:05 PM
The small screw at the probe, when you attach it to the built in test signal generator of the scope to get get the proper square signal on the screen (should have come to my mind)
Abusing this setting you can 'tune' phase shift results. He should have connected a resistor to see, if he gets the zero deg. or a cap to see the minus 90 .

Even properly adjusted for flat magnitude, there is a considerable phase shift near the pole.

It is as though we are in different worlds, with access to different information. Please +watch+ the video again and note very carefully what Alek says about the vertical symmetry of the waveforms produced by an "ordinary" transformer and his "special" one.

Also, please read the data sheet for the current monitor system, which I have attached some pages back. You will see that its output voltage/current relationship is very sensitive to the unit's own power supply and other calibratable settings. Not only that but also it has a 3 microsecond response delay.

Also please see the sheet I attached from NATIONAL INSTRUMENTS on ac/dc coupling, and what they do to waveform vertical measurements.

You are being presented with an unknown device by someone who is trying to sell you a DC battery charger that is "overunity" and an electric scooter that is supposed to charge up its own batteries while running. You attend a demonstration where you bring your _own_ oscilloscope and DMMs because you are skeptical of his reported measurements. Fine. But the claimant requires you to put a 100 nF capacitor in series with all your oscilloscope probes before you do any measurements, but won't explain exactly why. And you lot are OK with that.

The mind boggles. It literally boggles.

Watching it 2times , at 41:56 there's probably the part where he's mentioning 'that curve' and explains 'that at 90deg they are perfectly balanced' . He draws a few curves , where one curve has a 'dc' bias, at what it seems to be : it is not. This bias states an additional amount of power occurring when an average power being unequal zero transfered from the power source to the load or vice versa. This curve has 2times the freq. of the applied voltage curve.
The power curve itself has no signal equivalent (which when it was there could show an offset)
The Amp Signal is delivered by the Honeywell device as voltage equivalent to the fluke.
The Volts Signal directly to the fluke. The fluke must have both to calculate the phase shift and
could indeed show a power curve .

This is the power formula:
Upeak * Ipeak * sin(w * t) * sin(w * t + Phi) =
Upeak * Ipeak * [cos(-Phi) - cos(2 * w * t + Phi)] / 2
cos(-Phi) is a constant and stands for the power that is taken from or delivered to the device.
It is absolutely possible to make systematical errors with the measuring setup.
(And for only admitting that I chose not to read all this stuff.)
Btw. I would not accept a 100 nF capacitor in series with my probes for known reason.
http://www.arndt-bruenner.de/mathe/Allgemein/trigsimpl.htm