Quote from: Kator01 on September 27, 2014, 07:49:05 AM
Hi David,

do you have information about the volumetric or weight percentage of the material-mix including the amount of water you used ?

This would be of great help.

This swiss flyer gives information about a new trend in laundry detergent production indicating that there are different particle sizes available for different purposes. See here

http://www.impag.ch/fileadmin/resources/files/ch/Chemie/Flyer_Natriummetasilikate_2011-02-01_final.pdf

so it would be a good idea to find out the particle size of the Sodium-Metasilikate you bought

Shipping-cost are too high to buy this in USA, have to find it here in germany.

Thanks for sharing

Kator01

Edit:  NM.. not the same.. disregard

I've used Sodium Silicate (aka liquid glass), which is the same thing, but in liquid form.. basically they add the water for you.  Maybe you can find that in Germany.

@drodenbe[/size]

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excellent work. I will also try the joule thief mod of yours. Now to the work.[/size]

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I am happy you are using the graph, extremely important. Please share pictures of the graph zoomed and the whole graph so far. I want to see the curves and the spikes.[/size]

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The metasilica works well but will create sodium oxides that will smell like ammonia which will kill the cell with time because of its resitive properties, in other words, it will kill the cell by creating an isolation layer.


In one of my videos I show a big cell running a 25 watts  light. That cell I use something similar to what you are doing, charging the cell with a power supply. This creates a thin layer over the other metal (not copper) that will work like a super capacitor (another huge line of research to pursue) BUT it will also create an isolation layer with time. That one problem is VERY WORTHY to research and try to eliminate and then one can contain the humidity inside the cell and sealed, like you are doing.


Concrete will absorb the water and kind of work this is WHY: the water MUST flow back and forth inside the cell so the concrete will absorb and release that water as the cell needs. In your case the meta-silica (liquid glass) will with time soak the cell and cause the ammonia problem and cause the cell to inflate and crack open. You will see it. Amazing pressure it will create, another great line of research to solve.


Someone mention the conductive grease, that works BUT it will eventually open a hole and allow water to contaminate the metals.


The graph you are using IS CRUCIAL to understand what the cell is doing inside and tell you if she will survive for a long time before that time comes. Please share that.


I am using the following elements:
- Alum
- Epson salts
- Rochelle salts (3 different crystal for 3 different growth rates and "conflicting" starvation)
- Activate carbon to reduce internal resistance of the cell and compound "unification" (one could try different inert options)
- try using (depending of the formulas you are using) a teta or even higher hydrates. They are the "dirt" where the crystal grows but avoid nitrogen based, they will crack the cells open with time and corrode copper like butter.
- Quartz crystals already grown to help in the piezo effect. You can try different compounds of inert quartz crystals. River sands?!




Well, now, the cell DOES fluctuate during the day and night in a very specific pattern. That is ALSO CRUCIAL. We need to see that. The cells is very sensitive to the moon (I know it sounds crazy but its all based on the empirical data) and the solar intensity, also of your presence.


With your cell try not YET to seal it and run the graphs and share it too. I would like to see the "evaporation" level of the water - based on the curve of the graph. This will show the level of crystal growth based on the amount of water it will retain and the piezo effect inside the cell, besides off course, of the power over time.


Also use a 100 ohms resistor as a load to became close to real application devices and have a more repetitive and empirical data to measure (base line). With this technique you will be able to use your meter to graph not only the voltage but current and "internal resistance" of the cell all at one shot. 


Those are a few questions and tips I have to observe your testing and one can branch from your work and share results.


Keep up your great work, man and THANK YOU for actively now participating in this forum.


I have been waiting for people DOING THE WORK to participate so that I CAN SHARE. I don't want to share with "chair sitters".


Fausto.

Hi again:  Kator01

I am measuring by volume.   4oz ( Dixie cup) with 4oz cement (Dixie cup).  I looked up the msds sheet for the tsp-90 and is lists the ingredients as sodium meta silicate pentahydroxide.  But the label on the bag just lists sodium meta silicate.  Not sure what the difference is.  I am not a chemist.  I found the product on ebay I don't know if that is a problem with where you are or not.  If it is not ace hardware usa or Ebay, I am not sure where you can get it! 

Fausto:  Thanks for all your input and comments.  I have all your videos and as I have said before, you have saved us all a lot of work and money.  Money short supply! Retired!  I will try to get you the shots in a while.  Recently went through a divorce.  Lost all my stuff and information...  No camera no equipment.  Trying to replace slowly.  Did spring for scope and two logging meters.  Not sure if I can save a pict file from logging program or not.  Will look into.  Will need to get a camera soon. 

I will try to supply you with some data as you requested.  I don't have the experience with the cells as you do and I don't even want to try to match wits with you because I would loose.  You have done extensive research into this subject and your videos prove that!  I know very well about the possible outcome of the cells after time.  Been there and one of the reasons I quit for a while. Had renewed interest with the increase voltage output of this compound.  So as you know so well.  Time will tell!  I just looked and my joule thief is running the Led at high brightness and the cell is at 1.180 volts and rising was 1.172 last night at midnight.   Charge cells at 3.601 was 3.591 last night as well.

David

Quote from: drodenbe on September 27, 2014, 02:30:49 PM
Hi again:  Kator01

I am measuring by volume.   4oz ( Dixie cup) with 4oz cement (Dixie cup).  I looked up the msds sheet for the tsp-90 and is lists the ingredients as sodium meta silicate pentahydroxide.  But the label on the bag just lists sodium meta silicate.  Not sure what the difference is.  I am not a chemist.  I found the product on ebay I don't know if that is a problem with where you are or not.  If it is not ace hardware usa or Ebay, I am not sure where you can get it! 

Fausto:  Thanks for all your input and comments.  I have all your videos and as I have said before, you have saved us all a lot of work and money.  Money short supply! Retired!  I will try to get you the shots in a while.  Recently went through a divorce.  Lost all my stuff and information...  No camera no equipment.  Trying to replace slowly.  Did spring for scope and two logging meters.  Not sure if I can save a pict file from logging program or not.  Will look into.  Will need to get a camera soon. 

I will try to supply you with some data as you requested.  I don't have the experience with the cells as you do and I don't even want to try to match wits with you because I would loose.  You have done extensive research into this subject and your videos prove that!  I know very well about the possible outcome of the cells after time.  Been there and one of the reasons I quit for a while. Had renewed interest with the increase voltage output of this compound.  So as you know so well.  Time will tell!  I just looked and my joule thief is running the Led at high brightness and the cell is at 1.180 volts and rising was 1.172 last night at midnight.   Charge cells at 3.601 was 3.591 last night as well.

David

I know the problem of lack of money very well. 


Do not worry about comparing with me. I am like a say a "monkey scientist", only that and I have love for this research.




I don't need a picture than, just draw in a piece of paper as close as possible to what you see in the graph, like I show on my videos too. I am interested in the Ups and Downs by time/sample and the "spikes", how tall are they compared to the whole "long wave" curve.


Voltage rising now will not mean much (after hundreds of tests I kind figure that) BUT they tell me how the cell is "running inside".


The whole thing is based on the water "execution" inside the cell and the curves tells part of this story.


Fausto.

Hi Fausto,

Thanks for sharing your electrolyte materials.

Yep, I haven't had much luck with Sodium Silicate either.

I'm going to try electrically conductive adhesive for coating the electrodes.

Have you tried graphite powder (also carbon based) to reduce internal resistance?  I'm also looking at aluminum powder.

http://www.amazon.com/West-System-Graphite-Powder-423/dp/B002MYWI8Y/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1411687597&sr=8-8&keywords=GRAPHITE+POWDER

Also I'm looking into using Barium Titanate powder.  It is piezoelectric and non-soluble.

I do believe that polarizing does help, but I don't use a power supply.. I just put the cell under load while the crystals form.

Since everyone is sharing, here is a list of materials I've been researching..

Soluble Crystal Materials:
Sodium Borate (Borax) - Na2B4O7•10H2O
Magnesium Sulfate (Epson Salt) - MgSO4•7H2O
Potassium Aluminum Sulfate (Alum) - KAl(SO4)2•12H2O
Potassium Chloride (Ingredient in Salt Substitute) - KCl
Potassium Sodium Tartrate (Rochelle Salt) - KNaC4H4O6•4H2O
Calcium Sulfate (Gypsum) - CaSO4•2H2O
Calcium Carbonate (Calcite) - CaCO3
Sodium Hydroxide (Lye, Caustic Soda) - NaOH   -- just added to list 

I'm happy to see continued research in this area!

4Tesla