P.S.

@all

You will achieve a much more noticeable acceleration and greater usable power output if your rotor material is non magnetic. Hollow heel end style coil cores also exaggerate the effect. High speed (frequency) plays a dominant part of the effect.

For reference, I'll repeat "Visit this link below. Then check out specifically pages 8 and 10 as it relates to the subject of acceleration due to coil loading.

    http://www.totallyamped.net/adams/ "

KneeDeep from The Toad who Hops.

I have rather openly argue that Thanes motor generator in it's current form is not in the neighborhood of becoming OU, and I don't believe it is the best approach to try and make it OU right away as we need to know much more of what is going on, but it's not the worst idea to try (though it attracts more unwanted attention)

While that is true, if you wanted to reach overunity without knowing anything more than is currently known here is how you would go about it.

First you would need a far more powerful motor, one with a decent efficiency.
I don't know if an induction motor fits the bill or not as I am not sure of the relative efficiencies of different motor types in general but it would need to draw no more than it's maximum power and work with a damn site less slip than currently. (If you are powering it as recommended then it will be at an acceptable provided you keep it within it's max watt/hp rating)

The best option would be a rotoverter setup which is meant to be OU anyway, though maybe it is in part OU due to this effect? Anyway the motor must be able to run near the speed it was designed for while pulling no more than the rated power.
An AC motor would be strongly recommended. (not counting universal)

Also the hysteresis and eddycurrents must be reduced by use of laminations, metglass if you can (odd even config to eliminate cogging torque won't hurt).
Try and get it so that when the coils are open circuit you are using less energy powering the motor than you hope to get out, hopefully when you go closed circuit you will see significant OU.

Investigate if you are best to short some coils outright and use others for useful energy output, I say this because while in theory the coils are outputting energy in the form of heat and you can calculate the theoretical energy output from a shorted coil, often cooling is found in it's place which may mean no energy output.

The problem is unless it is 10 times the energy chances are you will have many doubters.
To get it self sustaining is tricky because you have to covert the output to a compatible form and you are likely to have runaway effects which will either stop the system or send it into destruction unless you have something to keep power constant, that's all rather complex.

Indeed the only design I've ever seen is the 2 battery system, but batteries not only add further loss and are going to require an inverter to run an AC motor but you will have people wanting to see it run for very long periods powering things other than it's self, you can't get around this because batteries can gain surface charge which is not representative of the power available.

Once you have done that you will attract claims of hidden batteries and the attention of spooks.

So for my money the better course of action is to understand what we are calling 'back-emf', how best to generate the largest amount of it, whatever 'it' is, and finally what it is doing to the motor to give it more torque and speed with less power input, and is there a more attractive target for whatever effect this has on electromagnetic systems.

The end result of that could be anything from knowing how best to apply this discovery to motor generators with a lot less work, to a discovery of how to build an easy to make solid state FE device or at the extreme end, a new branch of physics opening up Star Trek like technology.

Ok, sorry for hogging the thread, but I am going to expand on hoptoad's notes of this anti Lenz effect,
Page 8 & 10 are worth a read no doubt.

One of the things he mentions is that loading the coils slows the motor down, unless it's a short or near short. (showing that Lenz Law is occurring and that the accelerating effect is not linear with current)
He shows by using variable loads that it only works when you are close to no resistance, this is something I hinted at in my post just above and a test I recommended Thane try.

You see if all that was happening was flow of normal current it would slow the motor down, and even if it worked you would expect it not to change how it works based on the load.

The reason is this crazy sounding current which has had me accused of being off my meds really does not like flowing through resistance, and it is this current the induction of which produces no load of the generator at all (regardless of if the motor and generator are connected), ideally we would use wire that let this other current flow and stop the electric current, but the best we can do in this case is feed back some of this other current back into the motor, yeah I know it sounds crazy and I have not explained this fully (such as how a current of a wire is projected from a coil) and I can assure you that none of this is conjecture but over a decade of constant research.

This is also seen in other clues such as the comment that non magnetic disks work best, this stuff can flow through other materials if setup right. (including probably brass if shaped as a bar not just a cylinder)
That was one of the things that made me question if this might be something different, so it's good to see materials other than steel can carry this effect to the motor.

Also interesting is that a cylinder worked best to generate the effect, that is precisely what I would expect! (It may sound odd that a cylinder is good to produce it but poor to conduct it, well it's better than nothing for conduction but far far better is a direct connection without a big break in continuity as occurs at the brass coupler)

Again I know this sounds far out to many (and probably Thane included?) and I sure didn't believe in any such stuff initially and really hated the concept of aether or other airy fairy sounding mysterious mumbo jumb, but the evidence is overwhelming, it would be like denying electricity existed.

If I find more to comment on I will edit this post until there in a new page, to keep my comments under control.

Quote from: vince on March 02, 2008, 09:00:55 PM
Hi Thane and all;

Ive been trying to replicate your motor experiment but am not having much luck with the results.  I'm using a 1/25 hp induction motor from an walkin cooler evaporator fan.  I've made the steel rotor about 6.5" dia. with fairly strong ceramic 3/4" dia. magnets at 45 degree spacing and ( 8 magnets)were used.  I'm also  using 6 pickup coils that are factory wound 12volt coils, 1.7 ohms resistance each.  When I start the motor with no load and no coils it is drawing 2.7 amps @110 volts  When I introduce the 6 coils into the system and short them out it still draws 2.7 amps and does not accelerate at all.  The coils are putting out 3.2 volts AC each and will light up small 12 volt bulbs as can be seen in my photo.
My unit is quite flexable and can be configured for different coils fairly easily. What am I doing wrong or are these results OK with these small coils??

Regards
Vince

I WOULD SUGGEST THAT YOU HAVE SOME WAY TO CONTROL MOTOR SPEED (CEILING FAN SPEED CONTROLER or VARIAC) AND SOME METHOD TO MONITOR MOTOR SPEED (AIR COIL AND VOLTMETER or TACHOMETER)

IF YOUR MOTOR IS RUNNING AT MAX SPEED - I DOUBT IT WOULD ACCELERATE BEYOND THIS POINT.

DOES YOUR SYSTEM DECELERATE UNDER GENERATOR LOAD CONDITIONS?
IF IT DOES NOT DECELERATE - YOUR MOTOR IS TOO POWERFUL OR YOUR COILS ARE TOO WEAK.

ALSO IS YOUR BASE FERROMAGNETIC AND IS YOUR COIL MOUNT FERROMAGNETIC?
IF SO THIS COULD DEFLECT THE COILS INDUCED FIELDS?

Thane

Quote from: aether22 on March 03, 2008, 06:20:56 AM
Again I know this sounds far out to many (and probably Thane included?) and I sure didn't believe in any such stuff initially and really hated the concept of aether or other airy fairy sounding mysterious mumbo jumb, but the evidence is overwhelming, it would be like denying electricity existed.

YES AETHER22, BUT THEN YOU WOULD HAVE TO CHANGE YOUR NICKNAME TO CONVENTIONALELECTRICITYWISDON22 or FARADAY'SLAW22,  KIRCHOFF'SCURRENTLAW22 or SOMETHING EQUALLY BORING.

Thane