Quote from: polarbreeze on March 03, 2008, 10:51:54 PM

Quote from: aether22 on March 03, 2008, 07:47:49 PM

...Now I am to either assume that you are an idiot, or a c#^t.

...or you are playing some word game in some lame (and IMO failed) attempt at one oneupmanship...

...You are utterly missing the point, you have no interest in physics, all you want to do is find the most impractical test to show the device does not work.

...I'd rather not waste my time replying to this nonsense, I don't think you want to get the point of this.

I was hoping that we're having an objective discussion about how to prove that this device works and I'm kind of shocked at your reaction so I'm sorry if something I've said has offended you. Perhaps we have a different concept of what "prove that the device works" means. Here's my point of view on that: the proposition being made is that adding this device to an electric motor will make the motor more efficient. Do we agree that's the proposition - if not, please describe to me what you consider to be the proposition. Then maybe we can get on the same page.

I am reluctant to go back on my word and I see honestly nothing more I could possibly say.
No the device is not in it's current form a device which will make a motor more effective overall because right now the device has been designed to do 2 things, to act as a mechanical load and to improve the motor as it powers said load.

I have explained how to do the test, to use another motor to feed the generator, and have the back-emf/aether/whatever from the Thane generator feed into a stand alone with a control test load.
Since the Thane generator is not outputting any notable energy to the motor we can ignore the power it takes to drive it and simply see if it has any effect.

In the end no such test is needed since if you have a decent comprehension of what is going on then no answer besides improved motor efficiency could possibly explain the results in demo 1&2.

I have now restated what I had already said, so if you are looking for  further reply from me I suggest rereading what I have already said and trying to understand it.
Also I don't know what you are doing on an OU forum if you believe OU to be impossible.

And I really really do not want to be drawn into this anymore so unless someone has a new idea please don't address me in any way that expects a reply on this subject

@ All

Thane, please take no offence to the following as this is not a personal attack. I just feel that the "discovery" needs to be attributed to the correct person.

Thane did not make this "acceleration when coil is loaded" discovery.
He has rediscovered what Robert Adams had previously discovered and documented in 1977 !

You all seem to be unaware of this, and seem to be intent on re-inventing the wheel.

I researched this phenomena during the years 1999-2001. The effect is present in ANY OPEN MAGNETIC generating system.
But the effect can be so subtle until correct conditions are met, that it is often not observed.

The amplitude of the effect is frequency (rotor speed) and coil impedance dependent. The relationship with both parameters is non linear and parabolic in function.

@Vince, this is why your setup exhibits a "threshold speed" before you notice the effect taking place.

IMHO, study what is happening in the generator pickup coil and core, and forget about the motor.
Stop thinking about the electricity, and what it's expected phase relationships are and think purely about magnetic phase relationships and what you think they should be but aren't  !

Then ask yourself why aren't they what you were expecting!  (assuming you've successfully observed the phenomenon)

Phasing out for a while.....KneeDeep.  .......I've hit a bloch wall........need some transition time to rest......Then I'll kick my heel ends up

Cheers from the Toad who Hops. 

Hoptoad, I have not read your entire post yet, so it's possible you will make this point anyway but while Thane was not the first to observe this effect, nor is Robert Adams the first for sure (though he's a fine fellow Kiwi, I even got to meet him, and not he developed an aether theory also)

Thane is the first to find that the effect is the result of the back-emf/aether effecting the power of the motor and that there must be good coupling to the motor for the effect to exist.

And really that IMO is the greatest breakthrough, many have made generators like this, but finding motors detect this 'energy' is an extremely important breakthrough.

Quote from: aether22 on March 03, 2008, 01:39:36 PM

Tinu, what you can't answer is this.
Why does placing a tiny piece of steel connecting the motor and generator seriously increase the torque and speed while decreasing the energy into the motor, turning a lenz law (demonstrated in the first piece) loss into the reverse.

The effect with the transformer has no comparison at all, what is happening here is the opposite, a magnetic field (sometimes vanishingly tiny) is being added and heating and losses go down not up.

If however the magnetic field wasn't vanishingly tiny I'd say the effect is interesting but conventional, explainable. But it is vanishingly tiny.

Also the inefficiency with which the motor is run slightly dramatizes the effect, but it works with universal and DC motors working in a much more healthy mode so your heater comment bears no water.

This must be a joke, isn?t it?!
Of course it can be explained. I talk about:
?Why does placing a tiny piece of steel connecting the motor and generator seriously increase the torque and speed while decreasing the energy into the motor, turning a lenz law (demonstrated in the first piece) loss into the reverse.?, which shall be read
?Why does placing a tiny piece of steel connecting the motor and generator (seriously) increase the torque and speed IN COMPARISON TO A KILLED MOTOR BUT STILL TOTALLY INSIGNIFICANT IN COMPARISON TO THE NORMAL WORKING REGIME while decreasing the energy into the motor, AND NOT turning a Lenz law (demonstrated in the first piece) loss into the reverse BUT JUST DECREASING LOSES TO SOME EXTEND (which seems impressive from visual point of view but totally irrelevant).?
A 200W motor running idle shall take maybe 30-50W or less at its designed speed, which I assume is well in excess of 3kRPM. By the way, all those motor parameters should have been clearly stated in the beginning of all experiments. What?s that difficult to run the motor idle, to measure and to present its idle power and speed?! Other than embarrassment, of course?
You must have been somehow blinded by looking at a twisted and mind-twisting setup.

?The effect with the transformer has no comparison at all, what is happening here is the opposite, a magnetic field (sometimes vanishingly tiny) is being added and heating and losses go down not up.?
Losses go down?!!! When you start with a system that initially has 275W losses (it barely moves so bare with me that almost all input power goes into losses) of course losses goes down. It can not go up, for God?s sake! It?s already very close to 100% at start. Now that?s a ?great accomplishment? indeed, to come with a system that produces nothing but losses!
Transformer is the same. Do some experiments for yourself. When you add a metal shielding or a coil shielding, you?ll find it?s exactly the same ? well, let?s call it ?effect? for the sake of so many readers here. Then the explanation you seek for and that you assume it doesn?t exist will be already in your own hands.

Cheers,
Tinu

Greetings @ aether22
:Quote " Thane was not the first to observe this effect, nor is Robert Adams the first for sure (though he's a fine fellow Kiwi, I even got to meet him, and not he developed an aether theory also)"

I Agree.  Robert Adams was the first, however, to highlight and incorporate the observed effect into a working patented pulse motor/generator system. I also had the pleasure of meeting him briefly, but only as a curious seminar attendee. That was in 1995 in Sydney.

:Quote "Thane is the first to find that the effect is the result of the back-emf/aether".
I Disagree. Adams attributed this effect to "aether gating". Beyond that, I also disagree with Adams. IMHO, there is no O/U or "aether gating" going on here, but there is a very practical effect that has serious implications for more efficient alternators.

:Quote "And really that IMO is the greatest breakthrough, many have made generators like this, but finding motors detect this 'energy' is an extremely important breakthrough."

I'm still open minded on this one. More information please........KneeDeep.......

IMHO, something much simpler than aether gating is going on, but I'm all ears on everyones theories. 
My own experiments indicated that there are no net gains in total system energy, but there is a significant decrease in wasted energy and wasted torque as oppositional magnetic forces undergo relational phase shifting at higher frequencies.

Achieving these magnetic phase shifts is actually quite easy with low impedance coils, wound heel end style on solenoid cores, and using high speed rotor drivers.

Cheers all.