Ibpointless2 Crystal Cells

[jbignes5]

 I know what you guys are saying but water is used in the process to setup the matrix. After the water has done it's job it should evaporate from the structure. Water is not used in the process after the setup of the structure. But I think that you can grow a better structure as the crystal forms inside of the mix. Like some have noticed you can drop water on it little by little and it it should dissolve the structure and reform it making better connections. This process can be seen in the bones when they break. The healing process bridges the break and forms a harder connection at the break. This could be a way to grow better crystal channels through a battery like this is. Eventually water would be no use at all to the process.

I am gonna attempt to do this and see if I can grow a battery stronger in that process.

I have started a battery with aluminum around a carbon electrode (pencil lead)

The mix is 1 teaspoon of borax to 1/2 teaspoon alum and 1/2 teaspoon salt substitute.

I mixed the whole mess in a small cup really well before adding to the container for the battery. Then I inserted the carbon electrode and added hot water till it was even with the mix. This I set aside to dry out a bit for a week I am guessing.

Right away it has .5 volts but that is with the water. And this is not heat treated at all yet. I do plan on baking the unit till it flows as well but that will be down the road. I'm just using the water to set the unit up in a rough way, like concrete. Then I will bake it like an electrete is made. Baking the unit will also drive most of the moisture out of it as well.

I am wondering if shorting out the cell while baking will allow it to form extra channels and lock them in that way, like we make magnets?

[ibpointless2]

I am wondering if shorting out the cell while baking will allow it to form extra channels and lock them in that way, like we make magnets?

you know i've wondered about that too?

[NickZ]

    Guys:
   I also don't know what to think about the use of water, or if it can really be avoided without it getting locked into the structure of the cell.
My cement cells are getting close to a year old, and are still working, although with 1/2 of the 70 mAs that they started with. It may not be entirely possible or desirable to dry out some of these cells, even in an oven, as I've tried that, and they still work, or by shorting them out.  So there is more than galvanics here, or just "advanced galvanics", there is more to it.
  The red led as well as the infrared led as an example, can both produce a current that has nothing to do with galvanics, so, it is possible to have an output that is not galvanics related from semiconductor materials.
The fact that some cells still need water to reactivate them, is showing that we are not there yet, or they would not need the additional water.
My Carbon/Quartz cells do not use additional water, although there may still be some water trapped inside their structure also. Carbon can be easily dried in an oven, and then further sealed in a cell before it can absorb any moisture.
  Once salts are melted and cooled they lose some of their water, and  become more like a rock, instead of a crystal, even though they can start to recrystalize if water or moisture is present, to some degree, as Alum will do.
But, this is getting out of my very limited area of knowledge.
 
Ib:
   I think that what you're doing in using the glue-salts mix as a dry electrolyte is very interesting, since there is no additional separation between the two electrodes, and the mix covers both. If this works without any oxidation, as you've mentioned, and with no dropping of the output over time, as most cell will do, that is really something, and needs further looking into to develop.
  The reason that most cell lose their original output levels is not entirely related to the break down of the metals. As this can happen in a matter of hours. As certain ions such as the hydrogen ions get attracted or stuck to the anode and build up a restrictive layer there that does not allow further current through, forming an obstruction to the ion flow.  The use of the carbonates in the mix may help this to some degree, although Lidmotors last test are showing that carbonate cells have shown a drop in output, also. John B is getting 250 mA from his cells, does show some merit though, as no one has obtained that high an output or able to maintain at 30 mA under load. He did mention having to add some drops of water. I don't know if that relates to all his cells, or just the ones with watering holes in them.
   I 

[ibpointless2]

@nickz

I have some cement cells that still work but are at a much lower power than with what they started with. This also reminds me of any battery, even when the battery is dead its still got power. I've never seen a AA battery at 0 volts before, they all seem to have some charge in them. The question is what is this charge? I've done test before on lead acid batteries that were dead and I left them shorted out for a long time but they would never reach 0 volts. I think every battery has some magic in it that goes un-noticed. But I passed this off as being something that i'll never understand.

[jbignes5]

 It might not do what I expect on second thought. Equalizing the metal electrodes might make it worse. I guess thats what experimenting is all about...

Now I really think we need to sit down and play with these both in mixture and methods of creating the diode like structures. Maintaining the structures  after they have been made is another later on problem.

IB how did you make your big sealed battery in a concise step by step explanation? Since that is the most current I have ever saw coming from these batteries including John B's. You have something there and we need to explore that way first.

If I remember you had a copper pipe in the center? Why is that? What was your thinking there?

Don't get the wrong impression. I am thinking that is probably the best way to get an even charge to the copper mass. That is probably the best idea yet. My thinking is that the medium flows through the tube contacting all the internal surface and increases the interaction strength with the improved ambient charge flow.

One of the thing I hear you saying a lot is how the water does it magic once it is locked in it's structure. Well the water is still free to move in that structure. It has breathing room so to speak. So the water sloshes back and forth in that structure changing the potentials of each face of the structure.
Remember water reacts to static potentials ie. charged comb next to water stream will bend the stream slightly. That must mean water has a static field as well like any other matter or in some way conducts static fields.

Think about how magnets are made and you will see the parallels I am trying to draw between the two processes. Just from what you guys have done already proves you are setting up diode like channels in the matter of the crystals that block one way and allow the opposite way. Although the channels are weak they add up. More pumps in series the stronger the current. Parallel doesn't seem to do anything with these batteries and I know why. Think about diodes and how they work. The more you have in series the better the ability to resist the reverse flow. In our case the reverse flow is the resistance to pressure or load. I hope that helps to further your understanding.

I want to take you back to our experiments with the Captret. In fact this is the same process as we are doing here. The battery is replaced by the electrodes. In the Captret it used a quasi battery already, the electrolytic capacitor. What we have done is copy that method but we are using the difference between two metals in the ambient environment to supply the potential difference instead of the battery. We never could loose the stigma of illegitimate operation because we used a battery. Even though my battery never lost one volt the captret could not keep the diode like formation inside of it for long and lost the ability to provide a load substantial flow because the crystals in the electrolytic were not locked in.

At least you are making headway in that direction by replacing the battery with something that will never loose it's charge if you can protect the matter that is providing the potentials. You are very correct in your assumptions that a galvanic reaction is bad in this situation. But I beg to differ with you that an oxide layer can not protect the metals. When water is locked into the structure and only used inductively how can the water even touch the metal? We know tons about static induction but never thought It could do what we needed. From what you have seen from your own experiments, has your ideas changed about this process now? The oxide layer is made in much the same way as the water example but the water is not so dense in this case it is air. The crystal formation of the oxide layer is made from a lot of heat(charges) and the medium is the air. Air is just water broken right? Well replace what we are doing here with the water video and you will see the parallel, I hope. The organization of the crystalline lattice is controlled by the metal itself or grown from the metal. Think of the metal as a seed crystal and a source of matter for this process.

Another avenue to understand this process is this one: http://crystalradio.net/minerals/index.shtml

The only reason they are using oxides is because of the type of crystals they are using. Ones with tons of water will kill the electrodes if they are not protected. So maybe the answer is to use Nicks process and nix the water all together??