New guy with SMOT questions

[sknoxmn]

Watch Bill's videos he tried all that.

I have looked at his videos and I have not seen any of them come close to what I'm thinking.  What I did see was him saying that he's getting closer but yet showing the ball run into and subsequently, bouncing off of the bottom of the ramp board itself.

Perhaps in the several videos of his that I did see, none of them seem to have the lest level of the return ramp actually set at the entry level of the magnetic ramp.

One he does move the glass tray over from one device to the other. The tray with the bend aluminum on its edge to bring the ball around. But that one he starts the ball 1/2 way around the track as it is nowhere near his "exit scoop" or the exit point of the ramp.

If there is a video showing the ball boucing off the magnetic forces of the ramp itself, Perhaps I have not yet seen this one.

-S

[sknoxmn]

Yes, gravity is perpetual. That's the problem.... it doesn't flow, you can't deplete it or turn it into something else, it's a characteristic of "space", whatever that is, caused by the presence of mass. The only way to affect gravity is to change the distribution of mass in space, and the only thing you can do with gravity is to affect the distribution of mass in space. The interplay between the gravitational PE of a mass wrt some reference point, and the KE of a moving mass (as a pendulum or flywheel, for examples), is a perfect energy storage mechanism. It's strictly a BYOE (bring your own energy) kind of party, though.

So, at what scale would someone say a "perpetual" motion device is created? Is it that it outlasts the person that built it? Does it need to run for 100 years? 1000 years? or does it really have to run until the end of the universe as we know it?

Thats what I was talking about when saying there needs to be some kind of threshold.  Yes in the end, nothing it perpetual anything because one day this will all go away.

So since energy cannot be created nor destroyed, but only changed from one form to another... Why does anyone in there right mind spend any time on any of these devices listed in this forum?

I set the threshold at something that will repeat itself until an outside force acts on it. Since people want to talk Universal laws and thermal dynamics. Lets not forget the second half of that law.   

[TinselKoala]

So, at what scale would someone say a "perpetual" motion device is created? Is it that it outlasts the person that built it? Does it need to run for 100 years? 1000 years? or does it really have to run until the end of the universe as we know it?

It has to run for longer than you are willing to watch it.
No, seriously.... you have pointed out why you don't really see people referring to PM machines much any more. The definition of Perpetual Motion is too tricky.

Thats what I was talking about when saying there needs to be some kind of threshold.  Yes in the end, nothing it perpetual anything because one day this will all go away.

Agreed.

So since energy cannot be created nor destroyed, but only changed from one form to another... Why does anyone in there right mind spend any time on any of these devices listed in this forum?

That's a loaded question. There are apparently as many degrees of "right mindedness" as there are definitions of perpetual motion. "I'm a genius, you're eccentric, he's a whacko nutjob." Know what I mean? My own madness consists of wanting to see evidence for unusual claims, and I'm fascinated by high voltage stuff and bright shiny flashing objects. Others have their own fascinations-- the SMOT has flummoxed many people for many years, and if you think you've got a variant that hasn't yet been tried, I'd really like to see it in action.

I set the threshold at something that will repeat itself until an outside force acts on it. Since people want to talk Universal laws and thermal dynamics. Lets not forget the second half of that law.   

Yep, that "repeat itself" is important. A cycle, with end conditions the same as start conditions, repeating over and over, or accelerating to failure, without action of "outside forces".
But would that "outside force" exclusion apply to some new source of energy, like Tesla's Wheelworks of Nature, or the "zero point resonant Casimir effect" or something like that (dark energy in a bottle)?

[mscoffman]

You should not listen to critics.

Yes, a SMOT ramp adds energy to the runner ball, that is in the form of gravitational
potential energy. You can tell with your own eyes because the the ball ends up higher than it was at the
beginning. You can connect these ramps end to end and the ball will continue to rise.

...BUT...

You have not yet extracted the ball to outside the magnetic field of the ramp yet. You will need to do this
before you can get your energy free. This is where everyone fails. As the ball is extracted it is attracted
back towards all those magnets you have used to  build the ramp. The ball becomes uncontrollable
because of this energy. It will not behave "reliably" or have engineering "control margins" to get
back to beginning.

---

By the way, doesn't the ball only move as fast a you flick it onto the ramp?...No way. The ball is accelerated
as it moves onto the ramp.

...BUT...

LENZ law magnetic braking restricts the maximum speed at which the ball rolls on the ramp.

---

Note; a ball has a fixed ratio of forward momentum and speed -to- rotational
momentum and speed but suppose we could decouple those like with an automatic
transmission. Could such a system make it across the sticky spot?

---

I propose that magnetic energy is coupled out of the SMOT field magnets and into
the SMOT runner because the ball "tacks" the gravitational force vector against the magnetic
field vector. You can never approach a magnet directly because the magnetic lines
of force come towards the magnet have to broken on it's exit away from the magnet
extracting all the energy it gained.

---

There is no magnetic insulating material but superconductivity and the
inverse relationship of magnetic strength and R^2 radius squared. Figure
out how to insulate your magnetic flux utilizing distance by spreading things
out. Squeezing them together only strengthens the magnetic array "sticky point"
to where it dominates system energy.

---

The following was derived from a Clazer video showing a magnet mounted
on a fire-engine toy truck being draw towards a magnetic array then being
released from it with sufficient momentum to get to the next array.
I think this could help you demonstrate the feasibility of a pure magnetic
motor, which has not really been done yet.

1) There is a very inexpensive toy that lets you draw a "track",
a dark ink line on a large piece of paper. Then a small battery
powered car that will follow the line drawn on the piece of paper
around. If this ink line eventually rejoins itself the car will
go around and around the track until it depletes it battery power.
Technically this is called; a "Line Following Robot".

2) One would then build a bigger version of this, perhaps using the
small car as a sensor for a bigger cart that does not use battery
power to move, but only uses battery power to *steer* the cart...
So for example, if you set the cart on the line track and gave
it a push it would follow the track until its momentum ran down
due to friction. *Its battery would cause the cart to stick to
the line, but not make it move in the forward direction.

3) One would build a series of Halbach linear permanent magnet
arrays. These arrays are quit common and not theoretically
difficult but emit both of their magnetic poles of their fields
out in a single direction. They are a standard available thing.

4) One would then build a permanent bar magnet array on the
cart.

5) By positioning the Halbach magnet arrays on the paper that
has a track drawn on it one can get the cart to go between one
Halbach array and the next while following the line.

6) By drawing the line in a particular way, where the cart approaches
the magnetic array in a non-straight line manner, energy will be
added to the cart so that it moves around and around on the track
while the battery supplies only the steering function energy.

7) While this device is not necessarily in itself overunity in
this current form, it shows what one what would need to do to
build one that is overunity.

~ Theoretical Logic;

1) "Clanzer" a person in Britain. Has a youtube video of a small
cart being pulled along under the influence from one Halbach array
to next while eventually releasing the cart with momentum to
continue on. So this appears quite doable.

2) The Halbach array's unidirectionality will most likely cause
the magnetic "sticky spot" that invariably forms when magnetic
arrays occur in a circle to have its magnetic strength be
significantly reduced due to the array's highly directional
nature.

3) These magnetic arrays can be located arbitrarily far apart
depending on the distance the cart will move from momentum
after being released from the array. This will defeat the
magnetic sticky spot through the action of R^2.

4) The cart uses the mechanical force vector from the permanent
magnets against the sideways steering of the cart to add energy
by a means identical to a magnetic SMOT track using a runner
ball to move it uphill against gravity. The SMOT tendency of
its runner to behave in this manner has already been
demonstrated, again in another youtube video by "Clanzer".

5) The line drawing lets you adjust the system so the cart stays
on tack while not approaching the magnetic array straight-on so
the "tacking" function of (4) is retained to add energy to the
cart.

6) The doable requirements of the cart are; Can roll with low
friction, has sufficient steering bandwidth due to the fact
that maximum velocity may be systems dependent and has steering
motion that does not couple to carts forward motion.

All this appears quite doable and should work.

:S:MarkCoffman

I have looked at his videos and I have not seen any of them come close to what I'm thinking.  What I did see was him saying that he's getting closer but yet showing the ball run into and subsequently, bouncing off of the bottom of the ramp board itself.

Perhaps in the several videos of his that I did see, none of them seem to have the lest level of the return ramp actually set at the entry level of the magnetic ramp.

One he does move the glass tray over from one device to the other. The tray with the bend aluminum on its edge to bring the ball around. But that one he starts the ball 1/2 way around the track as it is nowhere near his "exit scoop" or the exit point of the ramp.

If there is a video showing the ball boucing off the magnetic forces of the ramp itself, Perhaps I have not yet seen this one.

-S

[yamalaris]

Hey new guy , Don't bother with this smot stuff ,as you can see man has learned all there is to know about magnets and gravity. If you do discover anything new , an internet flaming will be the least of your problems.
I wish you good fortune in your quest.
Tim