The new generator no effect counter B. EMF part 2 ( Selfrunning )

[vince]

In the end it comes down to this.
We all jumped on the bandwagon when we saw the first video of the generator being looped. Some of us were excited and hopeful and some were just skeptical. Sayir made it seem like he was a honest person trying to show us that it could be done. It certainly seemed real enough. The seasoned members made every attempt to correct our paths and prove that it could not be done. Some of us wanted to believe that there was something to this and many experiments and opinions later we come to this.

Do we believe the initial video and commentary from Sayir or was it just another you tube hoax?

Sayir, if your still out there following this thread please chime in and give us some feedback!!!

Vince

[lumen]

To All:

Hopefully the attached graphic will be even more helpful.   The attached graphic is a distillation of the design down to its bare essence.

Moving the iron back and forth in the air gap with no load on the generator coil will be energy-neutral.  It will modulate the amount of flux that flows though the magnet and you will be able to measure an EMF output from the coil.  However, you can clearly see that there will be cogging. 

If you attach a load to the generator coil, then there will be Lenz drag.  It should be obvious to all of you why that is the case.

Like I said before, all of these attempts in search of a "magic workaround" can and should be analyzed on paper first.  There is no point in spending 20 hours building something if you can make a rational analysis of how it works on paper.

As far as the real design goes, you can see that it will also have a lot of cogging as the rotor rotates.  Even though cogging is in theory energy-neutral, we know that it puts stresses on the bearings and the overall build and ultimately causes friction.  Therefore, it will be really hard to distinguish the cogging from the Lenz drag for a typical experimenter.  That difficulty could result in somebody convinced that they have something when in fact they don't.  It could create a thread that lasts two years where people spin their wheels and get absolutely nowhere.

Now, to the regulars in this thread: Do you see and understand what I am saying between the attached diagram and my description above?

MileHigh

In the diagram you show it is certain that Lenz will affect the iron if the coil is under load.
The reason is that the iron segment is directly used to increase the flux through the coil and so the flux will directly affect the iron also.
If you can understand that in your case the flux is outside the coil and the iron is used to move the flux through the coil in a conventional manner.

There may not be a "magic workaround" but if the flux is only inside of a coil and iron can be used to pull it out, then this is an inversion and the Lenz forces and will instead work against the expansion. That could only mean less attraction on the distracting iron.

Like I said, it's a theory that would work, but it may be impossible to construct a device to achieve it.
I am building a test device that I believe can achieve that goal but I also believe that there has been much more research put into generator technology than most would understand so at some point someone must have found the problem with this concept.

[T-1000]

MH:
Your drawing has Lenz force on same vector as closing of magnetic flux. In result the coil making temporary magnet will increase/decrease total magnetic strength in core along with magnets and of course there will be drag created.
The design in first post has it indirect between force moving iron and force resulting from induction on 90 degrees angle and is different than in this drawing. This is fundamental difference.

The simple advice - instead of posting tons of pages in forum just make simple assembly where magnet and coil is on same line as in my or Syrain's CAD drawing separated by air gap and attach rotor with iron cores coming and leaving from the sides on 90 degrees to that. Then you can tell everyone what effects do you see there...

"The seeing is believing"

[MileHigh]

Lumen:

but if the flux is only inside of a coil and iron can be used to pull it out, then this is an inversion and the Lenz forces

There is no "inversion," that is the problem where you are not "seeing."  The only thing that counts is changing magnetic flux that goes through the coil.  The iron is not "pulling it out."  When the iron rotor lines up with the stator then that allows more flux to flow through the newly created path for the flux.  That is the only thing that is happening.  You are not doing anything in "some other way."  There is no "new technique" being experimented with here.  You just have to look at what is happening at take it at face value.  The flux of the magnet will flow based on the external environment for the magnet.  It does this "without thinking," for lack of a better term.  Your setup does nothing more than change the external environment for the magnet, and the flux from the magnet responds in turn.  Your rotor will need an injection of external mechanical power if the coil starts driving a load.

Please try to visualize this, that's all that I can ask of you.

T-1000:

The same comments above apply to you about the "90 degrees" stuff.  If your changing magnetic field is precisely at 90 degrees to a very precisely wound coil that is very uniform, then the output from the coil will be zero.   In reality, it's impossible for an amateur experimenter to make a setup where this happens.  A small amount of flux will still pass through the generator coil.  That will create a small output from the coil.

it indirect between force moving iron and force resulting from induction on 90 degrees angle and is different than in this drawing. This is fundamental difference.

Like I said above, there is no difference.  If you have some kind of a design that you think uses a "90 degree" technique, and you are getting output from the generator, then changing flux is passing through your generator coil.  This is Nature, and it's real.  If you have a build the challenge for you is to have a new look at it and make a serious investigation to find out how changing magnetic flux passes through your generator coil, even if you made your build with the intention that all of the flux would be at 90 degrees to the generator coil.  Like I say above, it's basically impossible for you to make a build where the 0% of the flux passes through your coil.  All of the magnetic field lines are curved and there is just no way you can accomplish 100% of the flux flowing at 90 degrees to your generator coil.  Also, if you actually could have 100% of the flux at 90 degrees to your generator coil, then the output from your generator coil would be zero.

So, if you have a build where you think that all of the flux is at 90 degrees, and you are getting an output from the generator coil, then you are wrong.  Some changing flux is going trough your coil.  These are the fundamentals of how your device acts.

MileHigh

[prochiro]

Lumen:

T-1000 is correct in that you should build in this case. MileHigh seems stuck on one way and one way only. What he didn't seem to notice is that when we first saw the video where it was stated that there was cogging noted from this design, while turning by hand back and forth and starting, there was a sudden lack of it once it was started. You can draw all the cad drawings you want in a static format and all will show that flux is working against you. Go back to the original design, like UFO drew, make something like that where iron is moving only. Many here are off track and letting MileHigh get get you all tied up in diversion. There are several other builds that show that in a dynamic state, this design works. MileHigh will tell you that magnets work at the speed of light and they almost do. There is something more to dynamics and movement here you need to see. If you do not build first, you will never know and he who is trying to keep you in the static world wins.

Prochiro